Russell Brand - Moving Right

facund said:
Brand advocated not voting under the guise that it didn't matter who one voted for because the outcome would remain the same (Big business would continue to control policy and operate to its own benefit). A chat with Ed Milliband apparently changed his mind about that paradigm and now he advocates/promotes voting Labour because Ed will reputedly listen to the people.

It reeks of naivety and I also have suspicions that Cameron labelling him a "joke" may well have forced an ego response that appears rash at best.

Of course Milliband was going to turn up and try to appease him and say what he wanted to hear, no sane politician would agree to the experience otherwise. Ed didn't even vocalise the concept particularly well in the interview let alone outline policy to bring about necessary changes. This only further confuses me as to what Brand is actually doing here and whether he is just an incredibly susceptible individual.

Brand has long been raving about how the political system is broken and therefore defunct, "change could only come from outside this framework" to paraphrase. Championing Labour clearly goes against this ideal.
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I think what happened is that Brand is going through a stage most of us through where you end up watching a few Bill Hicks dvds(and smoking some pot) and come to conclusion that what is need is a complete tear down of the system and a 'Revolution'.Where most people get out if this phase around 18, Brand's come to this conclusion at 39 years old and he decide to film himself everyday leading up to this.

Still it's been mentioned before in here(And I agree) Brand's hearts in the right place and he seems to be helping people(new era estate). So I can't hate the guy too much(I actually think he can be a extremely funny at times).
 
Sweet Square said:
I think what happened is that Brand is going through a stage most of us through where you end up watching a few Bill Hicks dvds(and smoking some pot) and come to conclusion that what is need is a complete tear down of the system and a 'Revolution'.Where most people get out if this phase around 18, Brand's come to this conclusion at 39 years old and he decide to film himself everyday leading up to this.

Still it's been mentioned before in here(And I agree) Brand's hearts in the right place and he seems to be helping people(new era estate). So I can't hate the guy too much(I actually think he can be a extremely funny at times).
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This latest debacle aside I don't really have too much to critique the bloke on. I have enjoyed the Trews by and large and feel that on broad sentiments (compassion and community based activism) he hits the nail on the head more often than not. Sometimes the minutiae sees him go astray in my opinion but he clearly has the best of intentions.

I actually don't think he is too far off on the need for revolution (drastic reformation of our priorities and outlooks as a society) either, I just don't think it is as within reach as he seems to believe (maybe I just need to find myself a dealer).
 
The interview with Ed was before Cameron called him a joke, he just didn't show the bit where he said he could vote for Ed until after. While he's entitled to change his mind and all that, it definitely seems to me like he's let his emotions get the better of him.
 
soap said:
The interview with Ed was before Cameron called him a joke, he just didn't show the bit where he said he could vote for Ed until after. While he's entitled to change his mind and all that, it definitely seems to me like he's let his emotions get the better of him.
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They showed it early because the press had picked up on it and got leaked stills from the video. Was supposed to be put up at the weekend.
 
He is a fecking goon, unfunny, overbearing just as self motivated as the rest of us but pretends to be otherwise. A total tossbag.
 
Nice reality check for Russell, clearly desperate to be the last minute influence and recognized as some kind of political hero of the people.
 
fecking hell, what a video :lol: Though I did enjoy his disbelief that he hadn't actually had anything like the impact he clearly thought he would have had - not quite a diva moment, but not that far from it.
 
Had Ed's party done better, you can bet Russell would be taking credit for it, just as he's silently ducking out now that they flopped.
 
Raoul said:
Had Ed's party done better, you can bet Russell would be taking credit for it, just as he's silently ducking out now that they flopped.
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No doubt about it.
 
So he went from 'I'm not voting' to 'I can make a difference!' back to 'I'm not voting' within a few days?
 
A fair video from Brand. He's right to move his efforts back towards providing publicity for local and community causes on a case by case basis. He accepts that he perhaps got a bit too caught up in himself in the run up to the election and he's always acknowledged that he struggles with the sometimes accurate criticisms that are directed towards him like narcissism and occasional hypocrisy. Doesn't deserve the amount of ire he gets in my opinion. The fact that Murdoch's media hates him alone is enough evidence to tell you that he's probably actually a decent bloke with his heart in the right place.
 
He's just a bit all over the place. He's an ex-junkie, so it's hardly surprising he's impulsive. I think he gets a lot of unfair stick, though. His heart is definitely in the right place and I'm sure he went with Labour for the right reasons (a desire to help the disenfranchised) The explanation about how he was a reluctant spokesman for the "don't vote" movement seems honest and fair enough.
 
The thing that irritates me most about Brand and his ilk is the implication that a majority of the British electorate are naive, gullible dupes, conned by the 'old media' into voting against their own interests. As if they couldn't possibly be as well-informed as Brand about 'what's really going on', and yet come to a different conclusion to him. It's a really patronising way to approach the very people he's trying to bring around to his point of view.
 
2cents said:
The thing that irritates me most about Brand and his ilk is the implication that a majority of the British electorate are naive, gullible dupes, conned by the 'old media' into voting against their own interests. As if they couldn't possibly be as well-informed as Brand about 'what's really going on', and yet come to a different conclusion to him. It's a really patronising way to approach the very people he's trying to bring around to his point of view.
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Very true. Its just a device for self-promotion. "They don't care about us" etc.
 
It takes humility to admit ones own delusions of grandeur and for him to be so open about it so quickly reflects well on him in my opinion. No doubt there will be many people regretting their vote in 2-3 years time, the difference being that their views aren't broadcast every day (not that he deserves sympathy in this regard).

Brand was naive and, as he often admits himself, probably allowed his gigantic ego to take control at a crucial time. People make mistakes but it is their reaction to them that they are best judged upon and if Russell gets back to generating interest in real causes and grass roots activism as he intimated then fair play to him. He can have a positive impact just not on the scale he came to believe.
 
Politicians take note - thats what you get when you attach yourself to an idiot.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
What's the caf consensus on this bloke?

Is he just a pretentious, greasy-haired blow-hard who will do anything to stay in the spotlight?

Or an articulate and passionate advocate for the disenfranchised who is embracing new media to get his revolutionary message across to the powers that be? (Park Life)
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I'm late to this thread so want to go back to the OP directly.

I used to hate this guy with a passion when I first came across him, doing Big Brothers Little Brother. After that I was unable to read his columns or watch his comedy because I thought he was a smug twat.

But gradually I've warmed to him. This began when I saw Get Him To The Greek, which I liked a lot and made me more willing to listen to what he was saying in his comedy and more recently political ramblings.

I think his politics are simplistic and a bit naive at times, but genuinely held and not without their merits. His views are no more and no less legitimate than the extreme right wing stuff you see in the media all the time - but it's propaganda of the left, rather than of the right. Which we Brits are a lot less exposed to and which therefore comes across as far more risqué at best, if not completely mental.

I don't agree with him but I find him sincere and likeable and his views are a good counterweight to the mainstream press in this country.
 
2cents said:
The thing that irritates me most about Brand and his ilk is the implication that a majority of the British electorate are naive, gullible dupes, conned by the 'old media' into voting against their own interests. As if they couldn't possibly be as well-informed as Brand about 'what's really going on', and yet come to a different conclusion to him. It's a really patronising way to approach the very people he's trying to bring around to his point of view.
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He's right, though. Huge huge numbers of voters have very little idea what they're voting for and very little substance behind their decision. Obviously its impossible to put a ratio on it, I would think at least close to a third of votes cast are based on spurious reasons. I'm not just talking about the UK election either, applies to pretty much any election anywhere.
 
You should be able to vote for children to govern since the governments we end up with are complete Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime. No matter who get's in, they don't don't give a shite and they literally have zero credibility. It's an insult to people to have to vote for any of these pillocks.
 
Adebesi said:
I'm late to this thread so want to go back to the OP directly.

I used to hate this guy with a passion when I first came across him, doing Big Brothers Little Brother. After that I was unable to read his columns or watch his comedy because I thought he was a smug twat.

But gradually I've warmed to him. This began when I saw Get Him To The Greek, which I liked a lot and made me more willing to listen to what he was saying in his comedy and more recently political ramblings.

I think his politics are simplistic and a bit naive at times, but genuinely held and not without their merits. His views are no more and no less legitimate than the extreme right wing stuff you see in the media all the time - but it's propaganda of the left, rather than of the right. Which we Brits are a lot less exposed to and which therefore comes across as far more risqué at best, if not completely mental.

I don't agree with him but I find him sincere and likeable and his views are a good counterweight to the mainstream press in this country.
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He's a well intentioned guy, but I think he started his dialogue on the wrong foot with the 2013 Paxman interview where he encouraged non voting as a legitimate vehicle to affect change. His political musings will seem more relevant once he figures out he can be more effective by encouraging his flock to vote for the issues they care about.
 
Raoul said:
He's a well intentioned guy, but I think he started his dialogue on the wrong foot with the 2013 Paxman interview where he encouraged non voting as a legitimate vehicle to affect change. His political musings will seem more relevant once he figures out he can be more effective by encouraging his flock to vote for the issues they care about.
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He's already taken that step to be fair.

Someone compared him to a British Michael Moore which is about right.
 
Adebesi said:
He's already taken that step to be fair.

Someone compared him to a British Michael Moore which is about right.
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Moore is pretty much irrelevant these days. Russell should probably make a documentary though, he wouldn't have much trouble getting it funded.
 
2cents said:
The thing that irritates me most about Brand and his ilk is the implication that a majority of the British electorate are naive, gullible dupes, conned by the 'old media' into voting against their own interests. As if they couldn't possibly be as well-informed as Brand about 'what's really going on', and yet come to a different conclusion to him. It's a really patronising way to approach the very people he's trying to bring around to his point of view.
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Yet probably spot on.
 
Brand sounds dejected and flat, and who could blame him.
The whole 'election' was an anti climax, for those who believed the minority parties would be heard, and hopefully have an input into the way this country operates. Call us naive, maybe thats true, but the thought new perspectives being drawn into debate, was an exciting prospect.
 
Wibble said:
Yet probably spot on.
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Absolutely spot on IMO.

I found the hatchet job on Ed by Murdoch incredibly depressing. Along with the Tory fear campaign I am sure they influenced a lot of last minute voters. The fact is that most people don't know how the media works and they do believe what they read in the papers.
 
Wibble said:
Yet probably spot on.
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Classical Mechanic said:
Absolutely spot on IMO.

I found the hatchet job on Ed by Murdoch incredibly depressing. Along with the Tory fear campaign I am sure they influenced a lot of last minute voters. The fact is that most people don't know how the media works and they do believe what they read in the papers.
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So hang on. You are telling me that a guardian reading, humanist like myself was influenced to vote Tory by the media.


No, what influenced me to vote Tory is that I manage a business which employs 40 members of staff and pays out in excess of 1 millions pounds a year in wages. I sit with and work with influential business people, I know that that this country needs favourable business conditions to generate prosperity. The Tories deliver that.

My real world experience has led me to this conclusion. Years ago as a student I would have thought differently.
 
FortBoyard said:
So hang on. You are telling me that a guardian reading, humanist like myself was influenced to vote Tory by the media.


No, what influenced me to vote Tory is that I manage a business which employs 40 members of staff and pays out in excess of 1 millions pounds a year in wages. I sit with and work with influential business people, I know that that this country needs favourable business conditions to generate prosperity. The Tories deliver that.

My real world experience has led me to this conclusion. Years ago as a student I would have thought differently.
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Granted, perhaps in the pocketed world of "big business" the Tories deliver the so-called goods. But beyond that, exactly what parts of society do they help? They're dismantling the NHS, cutting general welfare and continuing the type of divisive politics that make people less connected and part of a community.

I know Labour aren't hot-shite either, but at least they're a less pronounced evil. Selfishness isn't a desirable characteristic yet voting Conservative inherently indicates the self above society. I know political opinions are diverse but I'd like to hear a justified reason from a Tory as to how they think the Conservatives are making British society (and the world, in fact) a better place...
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Absolutely spot on IMO.

I found the hatchet job on Ed by Murdoch incredibly depressing. Along with the Tory fear campaign I am sure they influenced a lot of last minute voters. The fact is that most people don't know how the media works and they do believe what they read in the papers.
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And there it is again :rolleyes:

So let's say you are right, and 'most' people do vote how the papers and media tell them, what's your proposal for helping that? Free politics degrees for all?

I have no doubt that many people do fall prey to media influence, however clearly many people don't too. That particular idea is a two way street, and it needs to stop being the go to excuse if Labour ever want to get back in.

I quite like Brand, but he has made a bit of a knob of himself over this. He should've learned from his old mate Noel Gallagher's mistake and stayed well clear of any particular party.
 
Redlambs said:
And there it is again :rolleyes:

So let's say you are right, and 'most' people do vote how the papers and media tell them, what's your proposal for helping that? Free politics degrees for all?

I have no doubt that many people do fall prey to media influence, however clearly many people don't too. That particular idea is a two way street, and it needs to stop being the go to excuse if Labour ever want to get back in.

I quite like Brand, but he has made a bit of a knob of himself over this. He should've learned from his old mate Noel Gallagher's mistake and stayed well clear of any particular party.
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I said 'a lot of people'. I mean it is there in black and white.

It is one of the ironies of democracy isn't. How many voters actually read the manifestos?

People are getting wiser though. The internet is empowering people with information. The solution would be to get more people interested in politics so they look deeper into it. Personally I think children should be taught about sceptical and critical thinking from a young age too.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I said 'a lot of people'. I mean it is there in black and white.

It is one of the ironies of democracy isn't. How many voters actually read the manifestos?

People are getting wiser though. The internet is empowering people with information. The solution would be to get more people interested in politics so they look deeper into it. Personally I think children should be taught about sceptical and critical thinking from a young age too.
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I agree there. Apart from the fact if you look down a line you also said 'most' in regards to believing the media ;)

But yeah I think education on politics is the only way to go, at least a bit would help. I also think Labour and their supporters need to stop looking at easy excuses though, it's just the same shit every time and as much as I'd be much happier with a strong Labour government who gets it, that just looks unlikely any time soon.
 
soap said:
He's right, though. Huge huge numbers of voters have very little idea what they're voting for and very little substance behind their decision. Obviously its impossible to put a ratio on it, I would think at least close to a third of votes cast are based on spurious reasons. I'm not just talking about the UK election either, applies to pretty much any election anywhere.
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Wibble said:
Yet probably spot on.
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Classical Mechanic said:
Absolutely spot on IMO.

I found the hatchet job on Ed by Murdoch incredibly depressing. Along with the Tory fear campaign I am sure they influenced a lot of last minute voters. The fact is that most people don't know how the media works and they do believe what they read in the papers.
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Whatever the truth in this though, the likes of Brand wouldn't bring it up if the vote went the way they wanted it to. The assumption is that the clueless ones will vote Tory (or whatever), and the informed ones will vote, well, like me!
 
2cents said:
Whatever the truth in this though, the likes of Brand wouldn't bring it up if the vote went the way they wanted it to. The assumption is that the clueless ones will vote Tory (or whatever), and the informed ones will vote, well, like me!
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Oh I agree with you on that. I think that Russell has a bit of a God complex. Whilst I agree with a lot of what he says I think that he probably turned more people off Labour than on!
 
FortBoyard said:
So hang on. You are telling me that a guardian reading, humanist like myself was influenced to vote Tory by the media.


No, what influenced me to vote Tory is that I manage a business which employs 40 members of staff and pays out in excess of 1 millions pounds a year in wages. I sit with and work with influential business people, I know that that this country needs favourable business conditions to generate prosperity. The Tories deliver that.

My real world experience has led me to this conclusion. Years ago as a student I would have thought differently.
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Yet the Tories have slowed the economy with their austerity measures which can't be anything other than a disaster for businesses.
 
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