RufRTs Obama Windup
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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65% of the independents that voted.
man you are sharp
Of course, the others were so pissed off at the current state of affairs that they couldn't be arsed to get out of their chair.man you are sharp
What I'm trying to get at was you extending the results for the six elections that took place and generalizing it for the entire nation. How many people? I'm asking because I honestly don't know. I'm talking votes, not percentages, because I don't think it scales unless you're going to conduct a scientific poll.
Look, I'm trying to be a little more respectful here than some of the other guys here were to you, considering I think you do have a point that people are starting to turn. I just don't think it's as extreme of a "rebuke" as you seem to think it is. I don't appreciate the sarcasm, especially since I think I see your point and am closer to agreeing with you than a lot of the other guys here are.
If you're here to have a discussion, then by all means do it. If you're here to hurl insults at people, then you're winning. Congratulations.
Edit: Sorry. I don't normally get this riled up.
I will then. That is an incredibly misleading statement. The most expensive plan that went to congress was 1-1.5 tillion over a period of a decade, in that same time the insurance companies will have wasted 7 trillion (thats the conservative estimate) in policy holders money in an over elaborate administration that is designed to reap the profit to the insrance companies. So you do the math.
10.2% unemployment...sorry lads, I was off by a few months. So the job creating trillion dollar stimulus became a jobless recovery...so where did the money go ?
I'll revise my prediction...up....11% unemployment in 6 months
I'll revise my prediction...up....11% unemployment in 6 months
I was wondering which way his post would go actually. LAROBERT seemed to be becoming somewhat unhappy with the Obama presidency last time I logged in.
I don't think I would go as far as to call these elections a statement about BHO's presidency to date but things better turn around soon or the dems will pay a heavy price. I think most people see through much of the BS at this point about the stimulous. "Jobs saved or created".....come on. Healtcare is still going to be tricky and then once it passes will the voters be happy with it. Doubt it.
Nice change of tactics, ok, can't blame Obama for this one. It was started under the Bush administration. The stimulus money went straight into the pockets of the rich 1% of America.
How much of the total stimulus money has been spent so far?
Bollocks. The stimulus money ended up clearing up debts and the rest going to bonuses or into pockets, which are now being clawed back as painfully as possible. You start threads on factually incorrect reports, so don't try taking the high ground.
The WH czar for the economy (Christina Romer) has publically stated that the stimulus has had its "maximal effect" and predicted very little economic impact in 2010 for the remaining stimulus funds.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28626.html
It is the basis for an expected push for an additional stimulus
TARP was a bailout, the stimulus I am referring to is the one enacted by Obama.
For the record, I am not a fan of either one.
The one given to the individual states? They ended up using them to fill budget holes and keep the jobs that were already there. They also payed off a lot of cntractors, but it didn't really create any jobs you are correct. I disagree with the tarp as when your throwing that much to bail out companies they should become property of the government. I'm all for Free market and Capitalism but you have to stick to the rules, take the highs and the lows. Those financial institutions shuld have been nationalised untill a new corperation could have purchased them back from the government. Same here in the UK. The problem is this corperate elitism ruling both the States and the UK at the moment. Not free trade or Capitalism.
The point is, the Stimulus Package was sold as a job creating package...first it was 3.5 million new jobs, then it was 3.5 million jobs saved, then it was a jobless recovery. But when they got the votes in Congress for the near 1 trillion dollar cost, it was billed as a must have job creating package...and it has failed in that basic premise.
You mean a policy involving lots of money failing in it's basic premise and going to the wrong places, passed by congress. Why the surprise, they always do. Thats nothing new to the current or past administrations, nor can the blame be put solely there. Both sides are equally as guilty over this.
well, at least you acknowledge a failure...must be tough words to utter for a devout follower of the Great Leader
Don't try turning it into someting it isn't, you still think i am Obama mania fan. I'm a conservative of the older values before corperatism took over. I will judge the leader of the free worlds first tenure after the fact, just as i did with all the presidents and primeministers. I do believe the states would benefit from a public health option, and once all the bull is cleared and with the amounts you guys spend on it already, you will have the best healthcare in the world. I do believe we need to start looking at infrastructure and new fuels and resources, i also believe the way the Anglo- American powers are viewed in the world and our policies need to be looked at. These are policies that he got voted in for, over here Cameron is making similar noises. I will vote for the Conservatives in the UK. I have always followed policies that agree with mine, not just stick my badge to any one party and follow it blindly because i'm told to. Look past the bull and media storm that is being created, and decide for yourself, don't just print any old crap, then start a thread making out it proves your arguments. There is nothing wrong with this president so far. The previous incumbent was far worse and helped create a lot of the current climate you are in. Just like Blair did over here.
The WH czar for the economy (Christina Romer) has publically stated that the stimulus has had its "maximal effect" and predicted very little economic impact in 2010 for the remaining stimulus funds.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28626.html
It is the basis for an expected push for an additional stimulus
She didn't actually 'predict very little economic impact', she said that the stimulus had expanded the economy in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, and the remaining spending would keep the economy from slipping. Keeping the economy from returning to recession is not 'very little economic impact'.
Since you are keen to cite Romer when it suits you, let's cite her when it might not:
Romer, testifying before Congress' Joint Economic Committee, said that as of August the stimulus had created or saved 600,000 to 1.5 million jobs. She said a premature end to the stimulus would be "misguided."
Unemployment will remain high, at or above 9.6 percent, through the end of 2010, Romer predicted.
"While job losses will likely end early next year, robust job gains may still be several quarters away," she said.
How does that contradict what I quoted earlier ? She said the stimulus had had its maximum effect. Can you honestly state that the stimulus alone will create 3.5 million jobs or are we going to pull a Romer and decide its several quarters away ?
Before you start quoting WH figures, you may want to really look at some of the fact checking that is going on....they quoted one company saving 800 jobs, when it only employed 500 total....typical Chicago style democrat mathematics
poppycock, anyone who dissents get shouted down and this Great Leader is getting a free pass from the press....any other president would have been slaughtered in the papers if they had performed and recanted campaign promises the way this amateur has.
Listen, I may be conservative but I also appreciate good policy. There are fiscally conservative democrats that would get my vote. Those democrats in congress that have the balls to stand up to Pelosi and question the misguided bills being put forth have my respect. Those conservatives that support bad policy do not. I believe in less government, more individual freedom, less social/government handouts and a free market economy (with robust oversight). I do not believe in the notion that government is the cure-all for all of society ills. When our children have to pay the tab down the road, it will be more clear to many of the wide eyed college students in here who sit around in circles huffing bongs and singing "we will overcome...."
Come on, this president has had just as rough a ride from the press, more so in some quarters. Your acting blind to one side yet crying victim and relishing in every little media victory on the other. Ignore all the media and make your own statements and views as there are to many loopholes in all these reports that can be easily dealt with. Just deal with a fair hand as it's not all black and white. When you go spouting the latest fox/republican columnist bull shit views you water down any of the points you may be trying to debate. Try to see if their's anything the current administration are doing that you agree with. Find your own arguments is all i'm trying to say. Just don't cry foul every 2 seconds, or use the latest media inspired buzzwords (breathless rhetoric etc,) as all they do is make you look like a sheep that has been endoctrinated. There are many levels of Conservatism and libralism that is not being portrayed any more in the american media. Take the recent New Jersey with the three candidates. One was a republican who was more central in her views. Fox and republicans rallied against, calling her a Marxist etc.
The whole messiah bull was created by the media and they are all using it (all sides) to their advantage. Instead look past it and look at the president and what he's doing.
I agree that the goverment isn't the cure all, but it should be the leader in sweeping changes that the corperate west are unwilling to make, as they are more than happy keeping their profiteering ways regardless of the damages it causes. We're paying the price for our parents mistakes our children will pay for ours regardless. Also if the children in America all get the same medical care i'm sure they won't mind paying towards it in the future, or for their own children. It won't cost as much as is being made out. Trust me it's a great piece of mind.
Free market economy/ capitalism is a great thing but all the main parties in the west don't follow the rules. They only pretend to as long as those with the money tend to be looked after. Also just because goverment can't be the cure all, doesn't mean it shouldn't try to help. There's no reason why a helping hand can't be given to the downtrodden, when you compare the costs of many of the social programs to ones that get given, and are wasted to larger entitites, ie finance and military they are only a fraction of the cost. The way i look at social plans and programmes are that they are the start of new cultural and business oppurtunities. Unfortuanetly when they end up being privatised the industries are trying to chase the profit to much, find loopholes in the plans to make more money, regardless to the cost and affect they have on the average Jo's. They then go running to their lobbyist friends when times get tough and our goverments happily oblige, spending our money to keep their corrupt and badly managed ways afloat. Their is no punishment to them whilst the lower income households suffer terribly.
As far as i'm concerned their are many top level bankers and financiers who should have all their assets seized. This money then should be redistributed to those lives that have been destroyed to keep the middle and working classes afloat as they are the ones that will end up doing all the donkey work in the future. I have no problem with people getting rich or trying to make profit but when they do things either illegally or to the cost of a nations economy then they should be punished.
Bloody hell that ended up being longer than intended.
ruf is totally without original thought. He merely spews Fox vomit here and expects us to buy it...whenever he quotes the Messiah garbage I just chuckle...
The 'true' Republicans are scared shitless by what happened in that NY by-election. You can see the Kristian KKK spouting their fecking Jaysus ,getting their nominee in. I certainly hope so.....
Yeah....people are going to go in droves to vote for these mental cases who hate blacks, jews.Hispanics.educated whites...in fact anyone who is not breeding through their mothers and their sisters.
The 'true' Republicans are scared shitless by what happened in that NY by-election. You can see the Kristian KKK spouting their fecking Jaysus ,getting their nominee in. I certainly hope so.....
Yeah....people are going to go in droves to vote for these mental cases who hate blacks, jews.Hispanics.educated whites...in fact anyone who is not breeding through their mothers and their sisters.
Anyone who expects unemployment to be cleared up overnight, or even in 6 months doesnt know what they are talking about. Employment levels lag behind much of the economic indicators, as such it will take a fair amount of time to clear up.
You are 100% correct. That's why the POTUS (or any other politician for that matter) shouldn't spout shit like "employment will not rise above x%."
PS - I only agree with you that employment numbers are a lagging indicator, the rest is BS.
In a blow to Rurft thread in the redcafe. Obama sneaks one past him to make his thread look a little silly. There's rumours Americas first commie president was laughing and heard to say to his laptop. "My hope and change are doing fine comrade!"
Somewhere a little Republicaner was believed to be crying into his pillow, stroking his gun.
Although to be truthful it's nothing lik the promised reform. It's a pile of shit that basically gives the insurance companies another trillion dollars. But it is change.
The "healthcare" bill was always predicted to have the easiest route in the House. It squeaked by with 5 votes with a last minute conservative provision that bans all federal funding for abortions within the bill.
Stick a fork in this dog, its done...
Stick a fork in this dog, its done...
Not a conservative provision. It was extended to get the support of the last few Democrats needed to hit 218. All of the Republicans, spare one, voted against it. It will get watered down in the Senate in order to appeal to the necessary Blue Dogs to reach 60 votes and then Obama will sign it.
Next stop. The Climate Change Bill, which will also pass and be signed into Law as Lindsey Graham is already on board.
How was banning all funding for abortions, dictated by conservative democrats as a condition for their vote, not a conservative provision ? I mean I understand liberal blinders to all matters, but get real Raoul.
I suspect some sort of health care bill will get signed, but its 50/50....and it will be watered down (much like the last minute provision that was everything the democrats did not want when talking about abortion). It will hardly be epic
(other than cost)Forget about a climate change bill, its a non starter.
How was banning all funding for abortions, dictated by conservative democrats as a condition for their vote, not a conservative provision ? I mean I understand liberal blinders to all matters, but get real Raoul.
I suspect some sort of health care bill will get signed, but its 50/50....and it will be watered down (much like the last minute provision that was everything the democrats did not want when talking about abortion). It will hardly be epic
Forget about a climate change bill, its a non starter.
I'm amused at your persistent denial that these bills are going to pass.
Firstly, and as I'm assuming you already know, Conservative Democrats aren't actually Conservative Republicans. They're merely Conservative members of left of center political party. Thus to suggest the abortion provision was a Conservative provision, is misleading, as they're not really Conservatives. The real Conservatives on the Republican side all voted against the bill. Likewise, the same thing will happen in the Senate. The "Blue Dog" Democrats will be offered various provisions to bring them on board until Reid is confident he has 60 votes in order to send it to President to sign.
Whats on the climate change bill, does it include new fuels and energy resources?
I'm amused at your persistent denial that these bills are going to pass.
Firstly, and as I'm assuming you already know, Conservative Democrats aren't actually Conservative Republicans. They're merely Conservative members of left of center political party. Thus to suggest the abortion provision was a Conservative provision, is misleading, as they're not really Conservatives. The real Conservatives on the Republican side all voted against the bill. Likewise, the same thing will happen in the Senate. The "Blue Dog" Democrats will be offered various provisions to bring them on board until Reid is confident he has 60 votes in order to send it to President to sign.
I disagree with your hair splitting...but the pro-life movement is a conservative viewpoint no matter how you couch it. Besides, whether its a democrat or republican, if its a conservative issue it makes no difference (the outcome or policy is still conservative)
Those concessions and trimming of the bill in the Senate will make this bill a shadow of what was bandied about during the election....and thats ok with this president along as he can say "I passed healthcare reform".
Epic ? wait and see.....
Exactly. You make your self out to be some sort of prophet just because you disagree with everyone except people that reproduce with their mothers.
You might be right, it might be a watered down piece of shit, but then again, it might not be.
Wait and see.
wow, profound....
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