Hardly an upgrade on McTominay. Sounds like our 3rd or 4th choice
Ruben Neves | Signed for Al Hilal (SA)
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He's hardly glued to one spot, but he is no Fred I give you that. However I value technical midfielders much more than someone like our Fred for example who can't pass the ball with consistent quality 5 out of 10 times. For 35m I feel he is an upgrade on what we have and would have him here.
Here are some top 10 stat lists for midfielders in the Premier League:
3rd for Tackles, but with far fewer instances of being 'dribbled past' than anybody else. In short, he's a top ball winner who doesn't sell himself easily
1st for Interceptions.
8th for being Dispossed.
10th for Unsuccessful Touches.
1st for Long Balls
Neves would be fantastic for our double pivot. For some reason, people are holding his occasional goal scoring against him. And maybe others are opposed because they have a particular midfield shape in mind for the future. Those preconceptions aside, there's very little Neves can't do as a total package.
But if you're basing it on what Manchester United have been building towards for the last two-an-a-half seasons under Ole, he'd be an excellent fit and a fantastic upgrade. Newcastle fans were equally unsure about Wijnaldum before he won the CL and PL with Liverpool and now seems to be on the verge of signing for Barcelona.
3rd for Tackles, but with far fewer instances of being 'dribbled past' than anybody else. In short, he's a top ball winner who doesn't sell himself easily
1st for Interceptions.
8th for being Dispossed.
10th for Unsuccessful Touches.
1st for Long Balls
Neves would be fantastic for our double pivot. For some reason, people are holding his occasional goal scoring against him. And maybe others are opposed because they have a particular midfield shape in mind for the future. Those preconceptions aside, there's very little Neves can't do as a total package.
But if you're basing it on what Manchester United have been building towards for the last two-an-a-half seasons under Ole, he'd be an excellent fit and a fantastic upgrade. Newcastle fans were equally unsure about Wijnaldum before he won the CL and PL with Liverpool and now seems to be on the verge of signing for Barcelona.
People complain about Fred but his stats don't really really back up the complaints. How is he 1st for tackles and not even in top 10 for dispossessed/possession lost stats?Here are some top 10 stat lists for midfielders in the Premier League:
3rd for Tackles, but with far fewer instances of being 'dribbled past' than anybody else. In short, he's a top ball winner who doesn't sell himself easily
1st for Interceptions.
8th for being Dispossed.
10th for Possession Losses
1st for Long Balls
Neves would be fantastic for our double pivot. For some reason, people are holding his occasional goal scoring against him. And maybe others are opposed because they have a particular midfield shape in mind for the future. Those preconceptions aside, there's very little Neves can't do as a total package.
But if you're basing it on what Manchester United have been building for the last two-an-a-half seasons under Ole, he'd be an excellent fit and a fantastic upgrade. Newcastle fans were equally unsure about Wijnaldum before he won the CL and PL and got a transfer to Barcelona.
Why couldn´t Fred or Scott play next to him and add the energy and mobility he lacks? Feels like a balanced partnership i my mind.
Because Scott shouldn't be starting and Fred I'll be honest and say I'd be happy to never see him play for us again, bloke infuriates me, nothing against the fella, but he drives me crazy.
Fred gets dispossessed more than all of those players. He also gets dribbled past more than any other player in the entire league (other than Connor Gallacher).
For all the good that Fred does, he's too easily beaten and too unpredictable in the long run. Football is a low scoring game where matches are won in moments. His hard work makes him great for a team on the up. But his mistakes make him a liability for a team already at the top.
He's rightly first choice at the moment because of a lack of other options. But he should only be a squad player at Manchester United by rights.
Read it wrong. Yes this makes sense
Thats what they said about Liverpool's midfield.
Difference is their players knew their roles, did their jobs well and allowed the attacking players to flourish. You can't compare what we have to what they had its just silly.
Exactly. But thats my point. Id love for a top CM but its unrealistic to get a top RW a top CM and a top CB. So maybe, just maybe we can get a Varane and a Sancho and get a not great but functioning midfield we might be ok. Fred and Neves for example is not world class but McFred for all the hate has actually done a job for us in top games. So adding a Neves with the passing range and Fred with the work rate and pressing might be a solid base for our really good attack to flourish.
Crazy to think he is the same age as Rashford, feels like he has been around for a decade now
Interesting. Where do you find the dribbled past stats?
As for being dispossessed, I don't think what you write is correct - or possibly it's not on a per 90 basis? Using footballcritic's stats for possession lost/90, Kalvin Phillips comes out worse than Fred. So does Brozovic, Merino, Tchouameni, Arambarri, Llorente, Locatelli and Neves, while Kamara has exactly the same values (11,3/90). Which means he's in the top half of the 16 players I've looked at.
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I think he’d be a decent option at £35m. He offers something different to the other DMs we have, and I like the fact that he doesn’t get injured.
Their midfield is underrated just because they weren't big names. Wijnaldum, Fabinho and Henderson are not okay players. They're all excellent, with Fabinho arguably being the best in the world in his position.
Found them (whoscored). He's third (together with Bruno!), Allan is tops. But you're right, it really stands out as a negative. Nobody else among those 16 players has more than 1,7 to Fred's two, and nearly all of them are at ~1 or less.
On the other hand, no one among those 16 has a better value than McTominay, at 0,4. So that's a nice complementarity, at least.
I would say they look excellent there because they fit very well in their setup under Klopp. Same with almost every player got under Klopp, none of Mane, Salah, Firmino, Robertson, VVD felt like wordbeaters before they came to Liverpool.
Thiago was very highly rated before he came to Liverpool and he hasn´t really added anything to their overall quality. It is really all about finding the right piece of the jigsaw puzzle
Why would they sell him on the cheap?
It just shows how stats are overrated.Here are some top 10 stat lists for midfielders in the Premier League:
3rd for Tackles, but with far fewer instances of being 'dribbled past' than anybody else. In short, he's a top ball winner who doesn't sell himself easily
1st for Interceptions.
8th for being Dispossed.
10th for Unsuccessful Touches.
1st for Long Balls
Neves would be fantastic for our double pivot. For some reason, people are holding his occasional goal scoring against him. And maybe others are opposed because they have a particular midfield shape in mind for the future. Those preconceptions aside, there's very little Neves can't do as a total package.
But if you're basing it on what Manchester United have been building towards for the last two-an-a-half seasons under Ole, he'd be an excellent fit and a fantastic upgrade. Newcastle fans were equally unsure about Wijnaldum before he won the CL and PL with Liverpool and now seems to be on the verge of signing for Barcelona.
His tackles and interceptions are because he sits infront of a back 3 and mops up.
Do you really think he's not dribbled passed because he's a great standing defender, or the fact that there is literally no room to dribble passed him backed up by 3 centre backs?
It's the same situation for Rice. His stats are inflated as he's backed up by a meat wall behind him.
Compare that to how much higher Fred and Mctominay are playing, you just can't always rely on stats. Fred gets dribbled passed because he's on the front foot pressing and if you miss the initial tackle your momentum always means they will get passed you.
Just because a player wasn't a well established/highly rated name before he joined a club doesn't mean he isn't excellent. Just like Kante and Mahrez were actually terrific players but just didn't have the environment, platform or coaching to showcase their qualities, those Liverpool players are all excellent. It's like saying VDS wasn't a great keeper because he was at Fulham for a number of years. Yes, good coaching elevates players but you dont turn durt into diamond. Wijlaldum has been superb for them hence Barcelona want him. Fabinho is as good as it gets as a DM. Henderson's passing is actually brilliant. The likes of Mctominay, Fred and co are a few notches down.
Liverpool's success seems to have fooled people into thinking that all you need in midfield is work horses. Those players were much better than we thought, and we dont play Liverpool's system nor have their coaching staff either.
Then why is McTominay so much better? He's dribbled past 0,4 times per game, to Fred's 2,0.Context and role matters, but not to the extent of being the whole explanation.
That being said, you may have at least part of a point there. It's notable that McT has a much lower number of presses/90 than Fred (14,7 to 24,0). There generally seems to be something of a correlation between having many presses and getting dribbled past more frequently.
Stats aren't overrated. The trouble is correctly understanding what they say something about and what they don't say something about.
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could be because Mctominay sits more as fred presses?
could be because Mctominay is better at defending
could be a mix of both
could be something else alltogether
I actually like the idea of getting him, especially at a good price.
The only thing against it for me is that Garner is a similar sort of player, and we'd still be without a real ball winner.
Neves does seem like the sort of player who could play the Carrick role, if that's what we are after.
The only thing against it for me is that Garner is a similar sort of player, and we'd still be without a real ball winner.
Neves does seem like the sort of player who could play the Carrick role, if that's what we are after.
Yeah, badly.
You really don't rate him? If so, why?
Does anyone have his distance covered stats?
My main point here is that this means you can't convincingly attribute Fred's stat to the context of how United is organised and his place within that setup.
But see updated post above. I agree it looks plausible that Fred's more extensive pressing has something to do with it. To the extent that the explanation is that McTominay is better at defending, that contradicts Adams point.
He's not very good. Fairweather player. Needs a lot of time and space to look impressive. Lacks the engine, mobility, ability in tight spaces etc to make the step up IMO. Would probably suit the Italian league more.
I've really liked him when I've watched him.
If he did move to us he'd have had a similar trajectory to Carrick too funnily enough. Couple years at mid table team, then a move to us around 24.
Was just thinking this earlier. Only one tweet as far as I know alludes to 35m. All the rest say they are prepared to sell him to raise funds for rebuilding.
also there’s zero links with United
Was in top 20 distance covered 2018/19 is about all I can find.
Is that of all players, or all midfielders? Either way it doesn't suggest he's lazy at all.
Might be because he doesn't run!
Thanks for doing this.Here are some top 10 stat lists for midfielders in the Premier League:
3rd for Tackles, but with far fewer instances of being 'dribbled past' than anybody else. In short, he's a top ball winner who doesn't sell himself easily
1st for Interceptions.
8th for being Dispossed.
10th for Unsuccessful Touches.
1st for Long Balls
Neves would be fantastic for our double pivot. For some reason, people are holding his occasional goal scoring against him. And maybe others are opposed because they have a particular midfield shape in mind for the future. Those preconceptions aside, there's very little Neves can't do as a total package.
But if you're basing it on what Manchester United have been building towards for the last two-an-a-half seasons under Ole, he'd be an excellent fit and a fantastic upgrade. Newcastle fans were equally unsure about Wijnaldum before he won the CL and PL with Liverpool and now seems to be on the verge of signing for Barcelona.
For the price, I see him being a very good acquisition and will no doubt improve the squad as he has a different skillset to what any of our midfielders have. The price then allows us to focus on spending big on other areas which you need to spend the big bucks on - Sancho/Varane.
you only have to watch Fred to see why people complain. Stats never paint the full picture
It's definitely valid hence why I said it.
If you're running full speed from a midfield position to close somebody down, if you miss the initial tackle/interception then they'll skip passed you. Fred being smaller in stature has to go all in to win it, if he misses it his size means they'll just power passed him and he can't stop them.
Mctominay being 6'4 obviously does this in a different way, he doesn't get anywhere near as close and instead challenges them to make it passed him. Being physically stronger and longer legs means he can win more standing tackles.
Fred is a lot more aggressive when pressing, so naturally the higher you are on the pitch means it's easier to run passed into space. Other midfielders who defend in front of their back line and don't have space behind won't get dribbled anywhere near as much.
Dante just posting distance covered, seems he does run.
He's pretty average. Great at hassling and harrying, and mediocre at everything else. Stats are not everything.
Was just kidding about people saying he's not mobile
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