Nesta. It's close
Ruben Dias thread
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No. And he’s not the first defender to look great for a while in that City side.
Now thats a good question. I have to go Maldini, i think he was superb, but theres not much in it. Was gutted when he didn't end up signing for Chelsea in late 90s, as i could just imagine him and Desailly together
On Ronaldo(R9) vs Lazio Nesta
I would say Nesta did well against him a lot of times,had some gorgeous tackles,made him difficult time and time again.Althogh as good as Nesta,he got humillated by Ronaldo(R9) a lot of times too.
I would say Lazio Nesta that duel against R9 was more of a stopper,so I'm not excited that he got humillated by Fenomeno a lot of times.Nesta wasn't Maldini who was god in deal with 1-1 situations.Maldini is/was the goat1-1 situations or duels,he had a lot of methods to deal with attackers.The most fascinating things about him,he was the master to throw some smart fouls when he knew that players passed him, another thing Maldini was excellent at used upper-body against attackers and last one Maldini was so clever about his opponents movements.This attributes made Maldini to be unbeatable man in 1-1 situations.
Ronaldo had humillated him a lot of times.
Nesta had done great jobs a lot of times against him.
You will see a lot of differences between Maldini and Nesta,when both of them had to deal with attackers.
I'm not excited when Ibrahimovic,Ronaldo,Ronaldinho and others have said a lot of times that Maldini was their toughest defenders that they have ever met.Maldini was unbeatable one on one ,he knew how to brutal in the right way.
Defenders that made Ronaldo in the most trouble situations were Thuram and Maldini,especially Thuram whom I always consider him as the best Ronaldo(R9) defenders.He had pocketed in a lot of matches and he had rarely humillated by Ronado(R9) except one outran and one nutmeg.
I would say Nesta did well against him a lot of times,had some gorgeous tackles,made him difficult time and time again.Althogh as good as Nesta,he got humillated by Ronaldo(R9) a lot of times too.
I would say Lazio Nesta that duel against R9 was more of a stopper,so I'm not excited that he got humillated by Fenomeno a lot of times.Nesta wasn't Maldini who was god in deal with 1-1 situations.Maldini is/was the goat1-1 situations or duels,he had a lot of methods to deal with attackers.The most fascinating things about him,he was the master to throw some smart fouls when he knew that players passed him, another thing Maldini was excellent at used upper-body against attackers and last one Maldini was so clever about his opponents movements.This attributes made Maldini to be unbeatable man in 1-1 situations.
Ronaldo had humillated him a lot of times.
Nesta had done great jobs a lot of times against him.
You will see a lot of differences between Maldini and Nesta,when both of them had to deal with attackers.
I'm not excited when Ibrahimovic,Ronaldo,Ronaldinho and others have said a lot of times that Maldini was their toughest defenders that they have ever met.Maldini was unbeatable one on one ,he knew how to brutal in the right way.
Defenders that made Ronaldo in the most trouble situations were Thuram and Maldini,especially Thuram whom I always consider him as the best Ronaldo(R9) defenders.He had pocketed in a lot of matches and he had rarely humillated by Ronado(R9) except one outran and one nutmeg.
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Maldini was REALLY a fantastic 1vs1 defender against pace and power but struggled against more tricky, slower but harder to read dribblers. Waddle the most famous example
Yep,Don't forget Okocha and Kanchelskis.
Espcially agaist Okocha,he should be sent off in that game.
Nice compilations. You will note that in those clashes with Maldini, they are almost exclusively him coming in off the left-back position - Prime Maldini in terms of physical prowess, which is not what he was as a centre-back where his intelligence and guile took precedence over his majesty at full-back.
Do you refer to Thuram of Serie A (centre-back), or NT Thuram (right-back)? Again, it’s a different task to poke and probe from a flank compared to being in the eye of the storm with that Ronaldo hurtling towards you and your backline, which is where Nesta’s plaudits come from.
I don’t think there’s any such thing as Ronaldo not making a fool of a centre-back - it is inevitable, but it’s in how much said centre-back can reduce the occurrences and be a solid preventative measure in their own right that counts; you see in the video you put up Nesta making a tackle and getting beaten with ease by Ronaldo, but what is more important is that he is up and able to make a second, successful tackle in recovery, thus being a thorn in the Brazilian’s side and a constant presence he has to be mindful of. There are very few players with that kind of pace and agility to be beaten, recover and make a second tackle in such quick succession as seen there; it’s a testament to what Nesta was at his physical peak.
Agree. There are tons of great defenders. So hard to even pick out top 10. Koeman had his time and also Sammer if you can place him as some kind of central defender/midfielder. I thought Montero was beast for Juventus to. Or how about Aldair and Blanc? Shame that Ledley King got his career killed by injuries because he would be up there with the best.
Maldini at his physical peak was an absolute specimen. Could have played in the NFL
Which reminds me: Pietro Vierchowood, the Tsar. Quite possibly the most physically gifted CB of all time(relative to era) and one of the greatest CBs of all time. THE greatest 1on1 defender ever. The guy was so ridiculous Gullit and Van Basten were physically scared of him
Which reminds me: Pietro Vierchowood, the Tsar. Quite possibly the most physically gifted CB of all time(relative to era) and one of the greatest CBs of all time. THE greatest 1on1 defender ever. The guy was so ridiculous Gullit and Van Basten were physically scared of him
We could have got him for 45M in 2018 but we offered just 40M, next year we spent 80M on Maguire
Thiago Silva lack something that prevents him from being considered an all time great : domination.
Thiago is the definition of what Ancelotti calls a "pessimistic defender", he always prepares himself for the worst thing that could happen so he rarely walks toward the attacker to make he feel his domination (Ramos is the definition of an optimistic defender that always think he's going to crush the attacker, even if he's sometimes wrong). He also lacks leadership and doesn't take enough risks in his passing game (very very few long balls).
I love Thiago Silva and I wanted to keep him at PSG but i would never put him at the Nesta/Maldini etc. level.
Dias probably more likely to be Kompany level. The only player of this generation in Nesta company is Van Dijk in my opinion.
I think I rate Thiago Silva higher than most. Like Nesta he has that all-round game - all of the combative stopper traits in his athleticism, agility, aerial and ball-winning ability; alongside the rapidfire reading of the game, covering and shutting out danger before it emerges. His use of the ball is better than most of the great stoppers and a little more polished and expansive than Nesta's for instance. And we've probably seen two versions of his career - the Milan and early PSG high-line holding edition up to around 2014 or so, and then the premium insurance cover he's grown into during his mid-30s. Irrespective of how anyone rates Ligue Un, he's shown enough for me at the top level, be it the Champions League or in international tournaments, to indicate he has more than held is own against the best attackers of this generation. A couple of outstanding performances against Messi for example, or shutting out Cristiano 5 times out of 6. Obviously it's not as simple as that, but when I look at how PSG and Brazil have exited tournaments, he's rarely, if ever, at fault and the errors have always been elsewhere, either in the defence or through wastefulness in attack. The fact he's cruising it in the Premier League a good 7-10 years past his physical peak just goes to further demonstrate how dominant he was at his very best.
All of that said I'm not sure if he cracks a top 10 for me, maybe just. I'd say there's a top 8 of Baresi, Beckenbauer, Figueroa, Moore, Passarella, Nesta, Kohler and Scirea. Then I'd place him fairly high up in the next group which would include the likes of Cannavaro, Stam, Forster, Krol, Vierchowod, Desailly, Bergomi, Hansen, Blanc, etc. Never easy to compare defenders across generations because they operate in such different environments and you really need to see quite a lot of them to judge how impressive they were.
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Think that's all fair comment. I've got nothing against him, but it's a shock see him rated above Nesta by someone. It's also a shame for him that he went from one diminished league to a lowly rated one and never got to experience halcyon days of any elite league. When thinking about most of the guys in this company, they were the fabric of prime years of whatever league they were in, up against numerous elite strikers per season in their leagues because of that, before the CL or majors are factored in.
You have Beckenbauer in your 'pure' CB list as well as the finesse/sweeper/ball player one? I really should think about my own top 10 and see if he comes up in it under scrutiny. Unquestionable in the other, but pure CB's, I wonder if I actually underrate him. I guess one my own issues with him is when constructing an all-time team, I'll nearly always put him in midfield next to Rijkaard because I want him on the ball as much as his humanly possible, and I rarely even consider a 3-man backline for that particular exercise.
Yes Aldair was very good too. Puyol at one time was top drawer.
Ouch. I remember in 98 we nearly got Maldini when Vialli was boss. Said it was the closest he ever came to leaving, and the only English club he'd have considered at the time. [due to our italian connections]
The old days of putting teletext number in, waiting for page to come around and bam, big white letters headline "Chelsea in talks for Maldini" Great times
Imagine this thread was on Bluemoon though, they'd be telling us why Nesta was a level below Dias
He is too raw for me, great defender absolute one of the best defenders in EPL but he needs some experiences especially calming himself in hard-situations.
Like Marquinhos before him and Rudiger before him etc, Real Madrid seem to have some sort of intangible superpower with the Champions League, doesn't make them bad defenders. Let's see if Van Dijk can survive.
Still a world-class defender, but he was never FWA Player of the Year worthy in my opinion and isn't on the same level as Van Dijk. I don't see an all-time player there, but is only 24 and if he stays at City he will inevitably be in this position again and again to learn from it.
Still a world-class defender, but he was never FWA Player of the Year worthy in my opinion and isn't on the same level as Van Dijk. I don't see an all-time player there, but is only 24 and if he stays at City he will inevitably be in this position again and again to learn from it.
For me, I see a lot of potential in this guy(not on the level of Rio and Nesta but who know future) . He always impresses me in term of leadership and commanding skills. Howewer, he can still develop in a lot of departments. He is a very discipline and focus guy, his attitude stands out from a lot of players in this era.
Nah, his first season was truly exceptional. One of the best seasons for a defender in the Premier League. Attackers were not the equipped to deal with him then. His level hasn't been the same since then.
He is a good defender, very much benefits from playing in a City side that didn't have any major goalscorers for the lazy pundits to fawn over. They had to get a bit creative and talk about a defender.
Yeah I agree with your point about his leadership. Pretty impressive for someone his age. I guess that would explain why he has the captain’s armband even though other senior players like KDB & Walker were on the pitch and have been there longer.
I will say this on City's defense overall - If city wouldn't control the ball at least 60% of the time, their whole defense would caught off every single time.
Real is probably one of the fewer teams that put pressure on their defense and made them look like clowns.
I've never in my life saw Ederson as a legit goalie. yes, he's good with his feet but every time he'll have at least 1 mistake in him in a game.
If he faced the amount of chances that De Gea faces daily he would have collapsed and made fun of.
Real is probably one of the fewer teams that put pressure on their defense and made them look like clowns.
I've never in my life saw Ederson as a legit goalie. yes, he's good with his feet but every time he'll have at least 1 mistake in him in a game.
If he faced the amount of chances that De Gea faces daily he would have collapsed and made fun of.
Big mistake tonight for the pen, hasn't quite got back up to speed since the injury. Have a feeling if Stones was available he wouldn't have started tonight.
He'll likely have a better career than Kompany because he'll be healthier but maybe not a better peak.
Despite whatever happened today he is a great defender. How I wished even back in 2019 we sign him instead of Maguire.
He was the best CB around last season. Also I'm not sure but being part of a team that I'd fragile in a competition drags players down too.
No. Next question
Good defender but never rated him as one of the elite defenders in the game. The fawning over him is so nauseating. Van dijk is an 8/9 out of 10 defender. Dias is 7 at best. Varane would be twice the player in this city team. All his defending, leadership is so bloody overrated. Looks bang average in that Portugal side. City’s dominance on the ball and Guardiola’s system benefits him so much. Good defender but never a great one for me. I just don’t see it with him as i see with Van dijk or Marquinhos.
He is too rash and a lot of the times closes down opposition instead of covering his space, leaving space behind for opposition player runs. He marks opposition players to tightly. He really needs to iron that part of his game.
What is it with caftards trying to make conclusion on player's careers and potential based on not a lot of time ?
?Agreed. Their best defence is their pressing and team organisation.
Once you actually get at their defence they aren't better than anybody else. It's just being good enough to hold the ball for sustained periods that english sides struggle with.
What is it with caftards trying to make conclusion on player's careers and potential based on not a lot of time
The hot take generation
Stephen A Smith would do numbers if he ever made the pivot to football
That's why this thread got bumped after tonight
"Hot take generation" is the best way to describe it for sureThe hot take generation
Stephen A Smith would do numbers if he ever made the pivot to football
That's why this thread got bumped after tonight
Hell no. Didn’t even know this thread was made but he’s not as nimble as Nesta or Rio and his performance for Portugal in the Euro was embarrassing. Decent defender but not a goat level defender.
He's good but this is a ridiculous post. Walker is Citys best defender.
That's not a secret though, is it? That's how Pep wants his CBs, even if they're just above average in pure defending skills, Pep will buy/play them as long as they're good with the ball at their feet, are comfortable recycling possession standing at the half line, and don't panic when closed down. His system is such that they're less likely to be exposed 1v1, because the entire team works hard to win the ball back by squeezing spaces and pressing the players in possession.
Same with Ederson, the system he plays him requires him to make more passes than saves.
He isn't even as good as Varane.
This.