Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

acnumber9 said:
I don’t follow the youth team that closely. But it’s not my job to, it’s Amorim’s.

Who are the three and how minutes have they played?
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You know the three, surely? Two of them played in yesterday’s match. And I can’t be arsed researching their minutes. Although I will say the youth team debutant with the most minutes under Amorim is currently… you guessed it… injured.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I haven't really hung him out to dry, seems a huge exaggeration based on this post:


It remains my opinion if you play 3 at the back, the WBs need to be wingers. We had many more wingers when he came and the only one we ever saw there was Amad, who was generally better there as he is a natural RW. The entire point of this setup is width/having offensive players in wide areas (whether they overlap or come inside) and yet the bulk of what we have seen is Dalot/Maz who then get slated because they generally come undone as soon as they are in attacking areas.
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I agree with you about wingers as as WB’s and looking at Amorim’s choices at Sporting, it seems he does so too. If I understood correctly, he started out with FBs as WB’s, but as soon has he found/brought in candidates, he opted for wingers retrained to those roles.

At United, it was only natural to start out with Dalot and Mazraoui to get the defensive security in place first, and given that Shaw and Malacia was out (indeterminately).

If he should then proceed to try to convert some wingers to WBs, the options were Amad, Rashford, Garnacho and Antony.

He did this with Amad and got a promising response. Unfortunately, Amad also seemed to be a necessary cndidate for the no10 spots, given the issues there. Now he’s out either way.

Antony delivered a bit of this and that, and was no worse at WB than at inside forward and previously at wing. His issue is physicality and confidence, and now he’s loaned out.

Rashford and Garnacho are quite similar, in that they are very much forward, very much wide player. Amorim’s 3-4-3 needs wingers who can also be trusted defensively, and forwards who thrive centrally/cutting in. Rashford and Garnacho are both weak in both these aspects, which is to say they are a bit one dimensional specialist type players. They both were challenges to work on their play styles to ameliorated one of these weaknesses at least. It seems Garnacho was willing to do this, Rashford was not.

Garnacho has hardly been used as a WB, and my guess about that is that it must mean his weaknesses and/or his willingness to adapt to the defensive demands of a WB role just leaves too much to be desired compared to players like Quenda, Nuno Santos, Amad or Antony.

I think many of United’s on paper best players would fit a 3-4-3 like this: De Ligt, Martinez, Ugarte, Casemiro, Shaw, Bruno, Mazraoui, Mount and Amad should all fit it well. Unfortunately, 4 of those are out injured and one has declined heavily.

Rasshford and Garnacho are the odd ones out, unfortunately both in the same position. As a result, we are weak in both WB options and 10 options, and the WB options left are defensive with little to contribute as wingers, and the last option is a 20 year old new to the league newcomer who can’t expect to do much heavy lifting this season.

Attacking wise, I don’t think we’ll see much improvement until next season, and even that is probably dependent on a new midfielder/no10 and a new striker.
 
red_de_pologne said:
I don't know, because INEOS are clueless?



The pressure playing here, the amount of attention and scrutiny players receive and the horrible morale around the whole club have to do more with it than you think. Anyway, do you have any other idea? The club finances dictate what will happen, not the manager. We can't spend our way out of this mess.
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Plenty of other clubs have to deal with this but still don't sink as depressingly low as we have these past two seasons. I'm not sure the pressure is even there anymore either seeing as we've been woeful for over a decade now.
 
red_de_pologne said:
I can see you have a strong opinion, but I'm convinced Amorim's appointment wasn't to get the best out of current team but to oversee a revolution in terms of playing style, profile of signings, culture at the club. He's 4 months in, with a decimated team that was in a bad state when he came in.

If you want to think we'd be fine if it was another manager in place, ok. I think regardless of the manager this club will be in deep shit for the next 2-3 years.
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I’m convinced nobody expected this. And if anybody had foreseen it, he wouldn’t have been appointed.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You know the three, surely? Two of them played in yesterday’s match. And I can’t be arsed researching their minutes. Although I will say the youth team debutant with the most minutes under Amorim is currently… you guessed it… injured.
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I know about Heaven and Chido. I don’t know who the other you mean is. One made his debut yesterday. They’ve played 104 minutes between them. I wouldn’t say he’s gone to the well too much.
 
Problem is do we trust him with a significant squad overhaul? I have my doubts, but what makes it really risky is that he plays a specific system that it won't be easy to transition into a more 'normal' back 4 formation if he fails and we would have spent millions in the process, then we are back a few steps where we have to sell his system players and buy new players for the new manager. Seems to be a vicious cycle.
 
Vault Dweller said:
Your initial question of why? Or about finances?
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Why. The finance part is just wrong on your part, because we can afford to sack him and because a lack of results has a direct impact on our finances for a longer period. If the decision was purely on finances, he should have been fired a month ago. The reason you can justify to keep him is because short term the club can put an emphasis on Football decisions and accept short to mid term financial losses. Keep in mind that if the rumor of a 6.5m wage is correct then going from 15th to 10th covers the entirety of his contract.
 
I like him but to be honest I'd like to see a bit more belief from him that we can turn things around, at least partially, THIS season and win that Europa League- he's almost too apologetic.

Fire the players up for the Europa League games, get Old Trafford to believe and get them on the players side, instill a mentality that these are games we simply have to win for the sake of the club. I want him to come out for the presser tomorrow or Wednesday or whenever it is and transmit that belief. All this stuff about the players being shite is true enough but they've shown they can do it in the big games against away at Arsenal, City and Liverpool this season.
 
Irwin99 said:
I like him but to be honest I'd like to see a bit more belief from him that we can turn things around, at least partially, THIS season and win that Europa League- he's almost too apologetic.

Fire the players up for the Europa League games, get Old Trafford to believe and get them on the players side, instill a mentality that these are games we simply have to win for the sake of the club. I want him to come out for the presser tomorrow or Wednesday or whenever it is and transmit that belief. All this stuff about the players being shite is true enough but they've shown they can do it in the big games against away at Arsenal, City and Liverpool this season.
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He gives me Moyes vibes in that he doesn't seem to feel like he belongs here and is in way over his head. Ten Hag was crap but he had a self-confidence about him at least.
 
DWelbz19 said:
There’s almost this element of pretentiousness around football about managers who don’t have a dogmatic philosophy. It’s as if the managers who actually manage and make do with what they have without such draconian tactical measures are seen as lesser.
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It's partly why Ole was so looked down on despite him getting results at every club he's been at excepting Cardiff.
 
Shark said:
Plenty of other clubs have to deal with this but still don't sink as depressingly low as we have these past two seasons. I'm not sure the pressure is even there anymore either seeing as we've been woeful for over a decade now.
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No other club in the league deals with even close to the amount of scrutiny and micro-analysing as United. The pressure is as high as it's ever been, we have a manager saying we're playing to save jobs ffs. The circumstances of where we are plays a significant role in our failings on the pitch, I will argue this with anyone.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Earlier on Amorim did at least have a good habit of improving us either by subs or whatever he said at half time. Especially in Europe. And that Antony wingback cameo is a good example. Start matches trying to control and contain then go more gung ho as the opposition tired and the game got stretched. Albeit always hamstrung by shite strikers, a right footed LWB, dodgy keeper etc etc.

That’s all gone out the window, unfortunately, now our squad is so threadbare. The squad management piece is the real mystery to me. How the feck we thought we’d manage letting Rashford and Antony both go without even getting in someone on loan? That was always going to screw us. But I don’t know if that’s Amorim’s fault. I suspect not.
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Being a bit sceptical in general, I don't know if it's an issue he set us up wrong in the first place or if he's good with subs. Likely a bit of both. Like surely he wasn't bricking it about Bodo and trusted us to just win regardless of Antony making a cameo at WB?

This is something I used to feel with Ole, we'd often concede first and then look much better once he was forced to change the more conservative plan, I'm just not sure being so risk adverse has enough merit in today's game, which seems based more about having a good press/forcing errors than being a side that creates through amazingly technical play. Even Pep has year on year become less focused on that. Today it's kind of a moot point (even if I think we might as well play Amass), as he doesn't have those options, but the fact he didn't really use the Wingers in that role save Amad when he did is worrying to me in terms of risk appetite.
 
DWelbz19 said:
There’s almost this element of pretentiousness around football about managers who don’t have a dogmatic philosophy. It’s as if the managers who actually manage and make do with what they have without such draconian tactical measures are seen as lesser.
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And still Ancelotti is amongst the most successful managers of all time
 
acnumber9 said:
Made his debut under Ten Hag. He’s played 368 minutes this season and 135 of them were under Ten Hag.
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Ok, then. Although he’s beside the point as he won’t solve any of our problems under Amorim. Which is a dire shortage of goals. The best prospect by far to fix this is Obi. And he looks a good bit short of PL quality right now.
 
Grande said:
I agree with you about wingers as as WB’s and looking at Amorim’s choices at Sporting, it seems he does so too. If I understood correctly, he started out with FBs as WB’s, but as soon has he found/brought in candidates, he opted for wingers retrained to those roles.

At United, it was only natural to start out with Dalot and Mazraoui to get the defensive security in place first, and given that Shaw and Malacia was out (indeterminately).

If he should then proceed to try to convert some wingers to WBs, the options were Amad, Rashford, Garnacho and Antony.

He did this with Amad and got a promising response. Unfortunately, Amad also seemed to be a necessary cndidate for the no10 spots, given the issues there. Now he’s out either way.

Antony delivered a bit of this and that, and was no worse at WB than at inside forward and previously at wing. His issue is physicality and confidence, and now he’s loaned out.

Rashford and Garnacho are quite similar, in that they are very much forward, very much wide player. Amorim’s 3-4-3 needs wingers who can also be trusted defensively, and forwards who thrive centrally/cutting in. Rashford and Garnacho are both weak in both these aspects, which is to say they are a bit one dimensional specialist type players. They both were challenges to work on their play styles to ameliorated one of these weaknesses at least. It seems Garnacho was willing to do this, Rashford was not.

Garnacho has hardly been used as a WB, and my guess about that is that it must mean his weaknesses and/or his willingness to adapt to the defensive demands of a WB role just leaves too much to be desired compared to players like Quenda, Nuno Santos, Amad or Antony.

I think many of United’s on paper best players would fit a 3-4-3 like this: De Ligt, Martinez, Ugarte, Casemiro, Shaw, Bruno, Mazraoui, Mount and Amad should all fit it well. Unfortunately, 4 of those are out injured and one has declined heavily.

Rasshford and Garnacho are the odd ones out, unfortunately both in the same position. As a result, we are weak in both WB options and 10 options, and the WB options left are defensive with little to contribute as wingers, and the last option is a 20 year old new to the league newcomer who can’t expect to do much heavy lifting this season.

Attacking wise, I don’t think we’ll see much improvement until next season, and even that is probably dependent on a new midfielder/no10 and a new striker.
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Agreed re the issues and agree re the squad in general.
The point being the choice is quite simple - you go FB and sacrifice in attack, or you go Winger and sacrifice in defence, but then I think a) if you are going to setup with 3 CBs, take a bit more risk going forwards, and b) even if your preference is the FB route, when it clearly isn't working why didn't we see the Wingers trialled there.
 
In this magic world where a new manager comes in and we start winning games and shoot up the table... who is the magical footballer that suddenly starts scoring goals for us? and who is the goalkeeper that isn't dodgy as hell? and who is the competent midfield? and wingers? etc. etc.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
In this magic world where a new manager comes in and we start winning games and shoot up the table... who is the magical footballer that suddenly starts scoring goals for us? and who is the goalkeeper that isn't dodgy as hell? and who is the competent midfield? and wingers? etc. etc.
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Apparently they’re all playing for our U21s and U18s. Who knew?!
 
Blood Mage said:
He gives me Moyes vibes in that he doesn't seem to feel like he belongs here and is in way over his head. Ten Hag was crap but he had a self-confidence about him at least.
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I think he thinks that he needs to get to that transfer window in the summer and buy some time to reshape the squad. That seems to be his only source of confidence and that's not really good to us right now.

As I said, I just wish he could fire up the team, the club and Old Trafford for the Europa League campaign. It's going to be hard but it is not fecking impossible. He needs to show some leadership with this.
 
NLunited said:
The managers have to do the best they can with the players here. Ten Hag this season underperformed, and Amorim is underperforming even more.

Forest doesn‘t have a better squad than us.

The team isn‘t terrible, except for lacking a seasoned striker. We should expect better results from Amorim though.
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I completely agree. My post was trying to point out how absolving the manager of any accountability until he has built his squad is exactly what landed us with the current state of the squad.
 
Remember the geese said:
Normal? How often, do you see a manager play with 4 at the back? The only difference is that ours plays with a 3 (or 5 depending on how you see it).
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I personally do not see a problem playing 3 at the back, or 5. It is about how do we attack especially. We do not have enough players where the ball is played.
KStandBarmyArmy1993 said:
8/9 of them potentially but I always think we look at this incorrectly.

If you swapped the squads, the result probably stays the same. Zirkzee and Hojlund are probably competent footballers (or at least 10-12 league goals a season strikers) without the pressure. You could probably argue similar for others.
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8 or 9 Fulham players would have gone in our first 11? At the start of the season? Are you serious?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Ok, then. Although he’s beside the point as he won’t solve any of our problems under Amorim. Which is a dire shortage of goals. The best prospect by far to fix this is Obi. And he looks a good bit short of PL quality right now.
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He does but he’s also looked slightly better than Hojlund. Giving youth more of a chance has multiple potential benefits in these circumstances. It shows he is willing to give them a chance boosting their confidence, keeps senior players on their toes, and means players aren’t getting overplayed in an injury crisis. It also gives him options in terms of formation. Of course, he doesn’t want to change it though which brings us back the initial point. He’s too inflexible.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
In this magic world where a new manager comes in and we start winning games and shoot up the table... who is the magical footballer that suddenly starts scoring goals for us? and who is the goalkeeper that isn't dodgy as hell? and who is the competent midfield? and wingers? etc. etc.
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There isn't any. This squad was custom built for Ten Hag, by Ten Hag, and even he couldn't get a tune out of it. And that squad is also now decimated by injuries, our most expensive player is out on fecking loan, and Rashford has also been turfed out.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
In this magic world where a new manager comes in and we start winning games and shoot up the table... who is the magical footballer that suddenly starts scoring goals for us? and who is the goalkeeper that isn't dodgy as hell? and who is the competent midfield? and wingers? etc. etc.
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Does it need to be magical to not have a worse points per game than the previous manager deemed not good enough?
 
pocco said:
Dalot won't be starting next season by the sounds of it. If we sign Quenda then he's backup at best.
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He’s played every game under Amorim bar the one he was suspended for. I’ll believe that when I see it.
 
Some of you guys want him gone. Now you sound like there is an obvious candidate out there who fits the profile :

- Available in the summer
- Proven in the top 5 leagues with silverware
- Clear style of play, very attacking with flexibility
- Promote young players from the academy
- Work with limited funds
- Obama level skills on communication to handle the press/media
- Stoic like Marcus Aurelius to lead us through a difficult moment for the club
- Win the PL from 2028, challenge in UCL
- Last but not the least : Handsome, tall, with impeccable hair

Go on then, I’m waiting for the names. Surely he must be known by the average football fans since he has to be proven…
 
acnumber9 said:
He’s played every game under Amorim bar the one he was suspended for. I’ll believe that when I see it.
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Because he was our second best WB (after Amad) until Dorgu signed. I don't know if you've noticed but Mazraoui is even worse there. Shaw is injured, and after that there has been nobody else. Unfortunately Dorgu arriving has coincided with Amads injury, so we've not really had a chance to see what I believe is our best wing backs on the pitch at the same time.

Quenda would start at RWB over Dalot, I'm sure of it.
 
acnumber9 said:
Does it need to be magical to not have a worse points per game than the previous manager deemed not good enough?
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Erik Ten Hag got 11 points from 9 games... points average of 1.2

Amorim has 22 points from 18 games... a points average of 1.2

And that's with a squad that has been severely weakened by injuries and players being allowed to leave
 
acnumber9 said:
They sure as shit aren’t on the pitch currently are they? Apparently a summer on the training ground will make Dalot a less than dreadful wingback. Who knew?!
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I reckon Dalot becoming a world class wingback over the summer is marginally more likely than the player who will score the goals needed to help us charge up the table turning out to be currently playing for our U21s/U18s.
 
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