Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[FriedClams]

Bruno’s the only player who gets into the Fulham team. We are that bad.

De ligt is walks into that Fulham team to be fair

 

[Redstain]

I don't think some posters understand what giving a manager time means. It doesn't mean continuously judging if they are right for the job when they come in mid season, take over a truly shambolic situation, have one new player and then lose 6 first team players to injury.

I've no idea if Amorim is the right manager yet, but I don't think now is the time to be judging it.

The owners will not be sacking him either, so it's not really even worth debating is it?

What I can't understand is there being a notion to back the manager?

Last summer the overwhelming opinion on the forum was that there was no sufficient replacements for Erik Ten Hag. That was the consensus throughout the summer and just because Amorim has been announced it doesn't change that sentiment.

By Ruben's own words a manager earns his time at a club, that means there's a feasibility to perform and do well. The issue with United has never at one point been giving managers too small a period of time, it's not having the foresight to see the trajectory of where the manager is heading before veering off course.

Amorim is dejected and his interview with Ferdinand is an absolution behind the reality of being inexperienced and dealing with an entity the size of this club. If throwing money at the problem is the justification, then tell me what patience is there when you consider PSR and the increasing likelihood that no more than 2 or more signings can potentially be made.

Are fans unreasonable to demand improvement on the pitch, I don't think this to be the case. It's not like he's being demanded to reach top four it's to have some semblance of consistency in games and to build a foundation that a further structure can be built on.

I'd wager that INEOS would be absolutely senile to provide Amorim with a plethora of funds. It will be the same revolving door rebuild where the existing manager fails, the squad is build solely from players who fit his ideology and then the instance repeats itself with the next individual hired.

Lets honestly take a look at the managers who have been hired in categories from world class to being reputable: Jose, LVG, Ole, Moyes, Ragnick, Erik and Amorim. It's not the mount Rushmore of management and what the managers have done since departing United is further evidence of it.

 

[AaronRedDevil]

I so badly want this guy to suceed. We have an easy run at the EL, hopefully he can pull something off. (Any other day it should be fecking easy for us to steamroll this competition without any of the best in the world teams ffs). I know he doesn't have the players for it, but damn man. We were NEVER this bad, we still have the same damn players that were top 6-8. Good managers adapt, just for now at least!

 

[Dec9003]

I like Amorim but I don’t think his system and philosophy matches the club. We expect UTD to be direct and to attack, but this system with the five at the back is very passive, and a little slow. I think he will get much better results if we back him well and sign good players in the summer, but couldn’t you say that about any manager? I’m not convinced that we will be continuing with this ‘idea’ as Ruben puts it by the end of next season.

 

[Superunknown]

I would like to see him try a different formation. Sure, if you get the right personnel the 3-4-2-1 can work, but right now we arguably don’t have a single player that’s the right fit for this system against PL opposition. The reality is that good passing teams who play 3 central midfielders can by-pass the centre of the park far too easily.

I’ve seen people say that if Chelsea can win the league with this formation, then it’s proof that it works, but if anything, it’s proof about just how important the correct players are. They had prime Kante, one of the only players in PL era who can actually do the job of two players, next to Matic who was great at carrying the ball and rarely gave it away. Then -even though he played as more of a winger than a LF - Eden Hazard was one of the best players in the league. I have no doubt that Diogo Dalot has better technique as a footballer than victor moses, but Moses was absolutely perfect for the RWB role and Alonso was the same on the other side. They had probably 8/11 of their players be absolutely perfect for the formation, hence why conte (a genius tactical manager) switched to it.

I would like to see him at least try the 4321… ask the same of the front 3 (which isn’t saying much) but shore up the middle of the park in sacrifice of one CB

Onana

Mazaroui
De ligt
Yoro
Heaven

Ugarte
Casemiro
Bruno

Mainoo
Garnacho
Obi

That’s a team I can get behind

Let's say we give this a try.

Well, first of all, he can't play that team today as Mainoo isn't available. Let's say we go into half-time 1-0 down today. Who does he bring off the bench to change that up? 4-2-3-1 doesn't suddenly mean Garnacho is going to hit the target, nor does it mean Obi will suddenly be 5 years older. Your front 3 shows exactly what the problem is, and those problems will remain whatever formation we play.

 

[FriedClams]

Let's say we give this a try.

Well, first of all, he can't play that team today as Mainoo isn't available. Let's say we go into half-time 1-0 down today. Who does he bring off the bench to change that up? 4-2-3-1 doesn't suddenly mean Garnacho is going to hit the target, nor does it mean Obi will suddenly be 5 years older. Your front 3 shows exactly what the problem is, and those problems will remain whatever formation we play.

I know we don’t have the personnel, it’s Just something I’d like to see in one of our upcoming meaningless league games

 

[Rozay]

Terrible stuff, as usual. What a horrible side this guy has assembled. All these coaches trying to outsmart themselves it seems. Rubbish system, since he’s come here half of his team are defenders in any given game, and you can draw a very logical straight line to his decisions and why we struggle to score goals. When you set up with Christian Eriksen, Diogo Dalot and Noussair Mazraoui constantly being the players receiving the ball in the dangerous positions then you get what you deserve. It seems creativity is supposed to come from centre halves or something. Half of the time we have the ball in good areas, it’s a defender that’s on it. Yoro probably had no idea he would be ending up as a winger so frequently when he joined us.

 

[NZT-One]

I would like to see him try a different formation. Sure, if you get the right personnel the 3-4-2-1 can work, but right now we arguably don’t have a single player that’s the right fit for this system against PL opposition. The reality is that good passing teams who play 3 central midfielders can by-pass the centre of the park far too easily.

I’ve seen people say that if Chelsea can win the league with this formation, then it’s proof that it works, but if anything, it’s proof about just how important the correct players are. They had prime Kante, one of the only players in PL era who can actually do the job of two players, next to Matic who was great at carrying the ball and rarely gave it away. Then -even though he played as more of a winger than a LF - Eden Hazard was one of the best players in the league. I have no doubt that Diogo Dalot has better technique as a footballer than victor moses, but Moses was absolutely perfect for the RWB role and Alonso was the same on the other side. They had probably 8/11 of their players be absolutely perfect for the formation, hence why conte (a genius tactical manager) switched to it.

I would like to see him at least try the 4321… ask the same of the front 3 (which isn’t saying much) but shore up the middle of the park in sacrifice of one CB

Onana

Mazaroui
De ligt
Yoro
Heaven

Ugarte
Casemiro
Bruno

Mainoo
Garnacho
Obi

That’s a team I can get behind

A different formation wouldn't change much. As has been said, the team was dysfunctional under ETH as well. The results weren't effected to that level but had he had that many injuries, I struggle to see it ending differently than now under Amorim. Your lineup has offers no width. It has Casemiro in the middle who doesn't cover much ground. It has a 17 yo as a striker who is not there, because he looked so crazy promising or a sure bet but because the other strikers are abysmal. Garnacho isn't a good winger. Mainoo has never been tested as part of the front 3.

I see your point - try something. But this is actionism. We don't see a formation fail right now, we see a team failing. The manager is the one who should find a way around that but lets not act as if a formation switch would be the key to promised land. We've seen the same players suck with a back-4. We don't move enough and we don't win our individual battles. With that, it simply doesn't matter what formation we are setup.

 

[groovyalbert]

I think it's good that we take some of the football decisions upstairs and off the managers back. With that in mind, I just can't see the logic in hiring a manager that requires such specific players for a niche system. It makes it so much harder and more expensive to replace him.

 

[Garethw]

We are struggling to score goals which is quite evident, and he plays 5 defensive players at the back. This has nothing to do with formation, he needs to be more attacking.I dont think he has tried once to change this in all the losing games.

This is my biggest issue with him. The setup is just so cowardly and negative.

 

[PeteManic]

Shite manager. Simple as that.

 

[J J]

He's utterly useless. He needs to go, total joke of a manager, and it's completely ridiculous how some think we're actually this bad. He's the problem.

Well you are the problem and many of the posters that want an ABC manager profile etc…The signings pre and before Amorim have been shit…

Any manager with his philosophies and coming into early / mid season needs a full preseason to outlay his idea..

The players that were bought were not his …and the sad part is that selling these unwanted players is not such an easy task as per the market….

People wanted Ruud Van Nistelrooy to manage and….well well how is he doing at Leicester?

Give up on this season …Let Amorim have a full preseason and then the discussion will be fair in 5 matches if we don’t play different…

 

[Camilo]

Bruno’s the only player who gets into the Fulham team. We are that bad.

Rubbish. Amorim's that bad. We've got plenty of quality. Nobody expected anything like this. Go back nine months and the only discussion was "does ETH need to mount a proper title challenge next year to keep his job". Nobody was saying we were shit on paper, and yet magically, suddenly we're shit in paper.

Give that man 300 million for showing everyone how shit a job he can do.

 

[Godfather]

We are struggling to score goals which is quite evident, and he plays 5 defensive players at the back. This has nothing to do with formation, he needs to be more attacking.I dont think he has tried once to change this in all the losing games.

Sadly I agree. I like him but these fullbacks as widebacks needs to stop. Dalot and esp Maz are no widebacks. They aren't good enough going forward

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I don't think some posters understand what giving a manager time means. It doesn't mean continuously judging if they are right for the job when they come in mid season, take over a truly shambolic situation, have one new player and then lose 6 first team players to injury.

I've no idea if Amorim is the right manager yet, but I don't think now is the time to be judging it.

The owners will not be sacking him either, so it's not really even worth debating is it?

I don't think that's the misunderstanding. You seem to be operating under the prior assumption that managers inherently deserve a set period of time. Not everyone in here shares that assumption.

 

[thegregster]

Bruno’s the only player who gets into the Fulham team. We are that bad.

You need to look at the Fulham lineup.

Pereira was in it ffs. Also Bassey,Iwobi,Traore etc.

Its just a rubbish excuse at this stage.

 

[Dec9003]

As opposed to who?

We could stop putting Bruno deep in midfield and have him as one of the front three more often.

 

[Delano]

I have no doubt that if we sack him and he ends up at a Leverkusen, Inter or Atalanta he will do well. Picking up a squad built for 3-4-3, but our team isn't at all.

My concern is, we are skint. To make this system work, we need a lot of specialist players and because of our performance in the league and cup, that money is reducing by the day.

So realistically, how can this improve? We've seen that it won't work with what we have, and our financial state is dire. If he can't improve the current players in his system, and he won't change it, it's not exactly looking optimistic.

I'd like it to work, but unless we strike gold and get a new squad, I'm struggling to see it.

 

[Remember the geese]

This thread makes me want to slag off the poster and not the post. Very frustrating to read.

 

[Redstain]

Terrible stuff, as usual. What a horrible side this guy has assembled. All these coaches trying to outsmart themselves it seems. Rubbish system, since he’s come here half of his team are defenders in any given game, and you can draw a very logical straight line to his decisions and why we struggle to score goals. When you set up with Christian Eriksen, Diogo Dalot and Noussair Mazraoui constantly being the players receiving the ball in the dangerous positions then you get what you deserve. It seems creativity is supposed to come from centre halves or something. Half of the time we have the ball in good areas, it’s a defender that’s on it. Yoro probably had no idea he would be ending up as a winger so frequently when he joined us.

I agree I have never seen a system be implemented at the ramification of causing an exodus in attacking players for positioning.

I actually thought the 4-2-3-1 was bad enough with the double pivot cutting off the ball progression from defense to midfield but this 5/3 at the back system has even more flaws then it does positives.

When I try and hypothesize the very best this system can offer it doesn't change from being very rigid and one dimensional and requiring individuals to step up.

You have two wingbacks who will bomb forward that provides width, the two 10's will play on the inside but Amorim's adaptation of this system has most players wide apart from one another so there's no fluidity. It will constantly be an issue of one of the attackers having to beat their man and then get off a shot or make the pass, never an instance where the team strings three or four passes together and then their in behind.

That's why since his time in charge there hasn't been one team goal. I understand that these players aren't capable of winning the league but there needs to be some illustration of what's working well that the board can go into the summer and say player X significantly demonstrates the capability to do this or that successfully. I can't think of many players in world football who will change the dynamics of this team. It's mostly just hope we can realistically rely on because Amorim himself has stated being out of ideas.

There's very little repertoire in his managerial arsenal.

 

[Maluco]

This is going to click with a few players and a chance at a pre-season in the summer. The stable base is there. Better attacking talent and time with the system and it’s going to work.

 

[Fooza]

Rubbish. Amorim's that bad. We've got plenty of quality. Nobody expected anything like this. Go back nine months and the only discussion was "does ETH need to mount a proper title challenge next year to keep his job". Nobody was saying we were shit on paper, and yet magically, suddenly we're shit in paper.

Give that man 300 million for showing everyone how shit a job he can do.

if you can't see the difference of squad even nine months ago compared to now, that's laughable, there's no helping you

we've have big injuries
we've lost attackers in the window

have some perspective and stop the rubbish, and by the way nine months ago, even with a better squad we had problems scoring goals and a lot were saying our attack was light and not good enough. Even summer window I said buying Zirkzee alone wasn't good enough to get goals that we lacked last season

 

[Rozay]

As opposed to who?

What, today, or generally speaking?

As for today, firstly, perhaps stop having 3 central defenders unnecessarily hanging about occupying one striker and put an additional midfielder instead. After that, we play Garnacho on the left and then he will need to decide on the right, perhaps Hojlund, perhaps a young player.

In the main though, stop this ridiculous default setting if filling half of your team who struggle to create or score goals with defenders.

 

[UnsungHero]

Amorim hasn't been good enough, we all know this, but I believe there is enough mitigation to allow him to have a preseason and summer transfer window. He was one of the most exciting young coaches in the world 5 minutes ago, and all of these players are equally crap under every manager we have. Do people have no memory?!

I've said it before but there's definitely an entitlement among some of our fans, the club has been so badly mismanaged you can't actually see how rubbish our squad is. It's bad, real bad.

 

[acnumber9]

Since Moyes every manager we have had has at least made us better temporarily. Amorim is the only one to make us worse.

 

[Remember the geese]

What, today, or generally speaking?

As for today, firstly, perhaps stop having 3 central defenders unnecessarily hanging about occupying one striker and put an additional midfielder instead. After that, we play Garnacho on the left and then he will need to decide on the right, perhaps Hojlund, perhaps a young player.

In the main though, stop this ridiculous default setting if filling half of your team who struggle to create or score goals with defenders.

There's nothing wrong with playing three defenders. We need more from our wing-backs and that is what we will get next season. He doesn't want to play the likes of Mazraoui and Dalot there.

 

[Rozay]

This is going to click with a few players and a chance at a pre-season in the summer. The stable base is there. Better attacking talent and time with the system and it’s going to work.

Better attacking talent will certainly help. However, they still occupy too few slots on the pitch. Aside from a striker, it’s not guaranteed that we will have more than one more natural forward player on the pitch at any time. The rest are midfielders and defenders.

 

[Dec9003]

No, we cant. Because Mainoo is injured. Collyer is injured. Eriksen is too unfit to play deeper. Casemiro cant cover the ground.

Casemiro came on today and did fairly well, it’s a myth that he can’t play. You can have Ugarte and Casemiro and survive against most teams, especially when they have three centre backs and two fullbacks behind them/next to them.

 

[thegregster]

Amorim hasn't been good enough, we all know this, but I believe there is enough mitigation to allow him to have a preseason and summer transfer window. He was one of the most exciting young coaches in the world 5 minutes ago, and all of these players are equally crap under every manager we have. Do people have no memory?!

I've said it before but there's definitely an entitlement among some of our fans, the club has been so badly mismanaged you can't actually see how rubbish our squad is. It's bad, real bad.

Have you seen the squads of the dross above us? Have you seen what Forest have? Players like Elanga and Chris Wood.

 

[Rozay]

There's nothing wrong with playing three defenders. We need more from our wing-backs and that is what we will get next season. He doesn't want to play the likes of Mazraoui and Dalot there.

There is a problem with playing 5.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Again, we've been playing at a ~14th place level since before Christmas last season.

Yes we are at the worst we've ever been. Simply because the horrible squad ETH built and left behind then lost Rashford, Antony, Amad and Martinez with no replacements. Also lost Mainoo.

Look through the 16 players who played today and you can stick a giant asterisk next to almost all of them. Not good enough to play in the Prem, first season in the club and league, old and unfit, running down their contract, youth player. There are 4 forwards in the fecking squad to cover 3 positions, one of whom is 17 and the other 3 cant score goals and dont belong at this level. There's no manager on the planet who can manage around this less than threadbare squad and get anything but poor results.

This is all absolutely true I agree. The squad is poor, and the injuries have killed what tiny bit of quality we do have. The attack in particular is absolutely shocking currently. However, I still can’t get past the fact we are being outplayed by the worst teams in the league. Their squads are definitely not better. The manager does too a degree need to show something, anything to hang on your hat on. The reality is we have gone backwards in nearly every department under Amorin. Maybe a couple new faces and it all miraculously changes, but I’m finding it tough to believe currently.

I fundamentally disagree with the notion no manager could do better. Every manager would find this mess hard. Every manager would be getting inconsistent results with this team. But without a doubt in my mind, there’s plenty of managers who could have stabilised this situation better. I agree with the fella above, Ten Hag would have kept us more competitive than this and that’s a poor indictment on the current manager.

 

[Garethw]

I don't think that's the misunderstanding. You seem to be operating under the prior assumption that managers inherently deserve a set period of time. Not everyone in here shares that assumption.

Exactly. Managers earn time and patience by showing progress.

Three months in and there is zero progress.

 

[Rozay]

We could stop putting Bruno deep in midfield and have him as one of the front three more often.

He shouldn’t be one of our 3 front men anyway. He’s not a front man. Generally speaking, players shouldn’t have the profile to dovetail between forward and centre midfield. They are different skill-sets. Bruno is a midfielder, and him being in the front three means that we cannot play a proper forward player with penetrative qualities.

 

[stepic]

Better attacking talent will certainly help. However, they still occupy too few slots on the pitch. Aside from a striker, it’s not guaranteed that we will have more than one more natural forward player on the pitch at any time. The rest are midfielders and defenders.

Do you know anything about his ideal system? You know the wingbacks will be attacking players right?

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Since Moyes every manager we have had has at least made us better temporarily. Amorim is the only one to make us worse.

Speaking of Moyes, he has also made Everton better temporarily. He didn't call them the worst Everton squad in history and he didn't need several new signings to improve on his predecessor's points per game.

 

[UnsungHero]

Have you seen the squads of the dross above us? Have you seen what Forest have? Players like Elanga and Chris Wood.

And? So they aren't trendy enough for you? I'm sure you're happy with Garnacho instead, he's great isn't he.

 

[NZT-One]

We are struggling to score goals which is quite evident, and he plays 5 defensive players at the back. This has nothing to do with formation, he needs to be more attacking.I dont think he has tried once to change this in all the losing games.

We barely defend on a functional level with these defenders on, without, it certainly wouldn't get instantly better. And are you sure, you wouldn't call him naive would he lose games 5-3 instead of 1-0? The wingbacks aren't defensive players in this formation. The issue is, the one "winger" we have left, is more of a wingforward and has no natural concept of defending.

I so badly want this guy to suceed. We have an easy run at the EL, hopefully he can pull something off. (Any other day it should be fecking easy for us to steamroll this competition without any of the best in the world teams ffs). I know he doesn't have the players for it, but damn man. We were NEVER this bad, we still have the same damn players that were top 6-8. Good managers adapt, just for now at least!

Those are the worst teams for us at the moment. We did alright against teams were we could play as underdogs, it is teams that are ready to ditch their game plan to maximize hitting our weak points rather than teams that will try to play according to their own plan. There are still very functional sides in the EL, we aren't going to win this just by fielding more quality in terms of players. Not even mentioning that we can't even guarantee this these days.

I like Amorim but I don’t think his system and philosophy matches the club. We expect UTD to be direct and to attack, but this system with the five at the back is very passive, and a little slow. I think he will get much better results if we back him well and sign good players in the summer, but couldn’t you say that about any manager? I’m not convinced that we will be continuing with this ‘idea’ as Ruben puts it by the end of next season.

This is exactly what we have seen today. Whenever we had the chance, we launched it forwards. It is more or less exactly the same as under Ole or in ETHs first season. Which is why Amorim probably gets more and more frustrated - he wants a certain level of control, yet we aren't able to execute any level of control. We can't deal with pressure, we can't move the ball, we can't win the ball back early, we can't generate high quality chances - obviously this is intertwined with the formation and system but with the quality of players available, there isn't any system on this planet we can employ to get by.

 

[Remember the geese]

There is a problem with playing 5.

Again, his intention isn't to play 5. He wants to play three centre backs and two attack minded wing-backs. I don't see an issue.

 

[stepic]

Have you seen the squads of the dross above us? Have you seen what Forest have? Players like Elanga and Chris Wood.

Both players would walk into our starting line up.

 

[Redstain]

Casemiro came on today and did fairly well, it’s a myth that he can’t play. You can have Ugarte and Casemiro and survive against most teams, especially when they have three centre backs and two fullbacks behind them/next to them.

Additionally it worked well under Ruud.

I think his legs are gone opinions is a lazy argument, Casemiro has never been a Kante profile even in his prime. He reads the game well and plays intellectually with his positioning. It's the equivalence of saying Busquets legs are gone, he's never been the profile to cover numerous spaces and get himself across. We were all shocked at Casemiro's genuine passing ability in his opening season but that's the result of not really watching a player before moving to the club.