Roy Keane

[eire-red]

I have seen nothing to suggest that would be true this season. Rashford doesn't score enough but he get to the chances unlike Ronaldo.
He might do good/better in another league, but the PL is too strong and fast for him.

Of course we can't be sure, and Martial has practically scored or assisted in every appearance this season so given how many minutes he has missed he would likely disagree with me too.

My point is just that Ronaldo is the more reliable, proven goalscorer, which Keane is absolutely right about. But the issue is that we're not like City with 10 other world class players that can create great chances at will for Haaland. We can't carry him.

At the end of the day, neither Rashford or Ronaldo are the long term solutions for CF role, but I think ETH is preferring to foster a style of play rather than play the percentage game with Ronaldo looking to scrape results with his goals.

I agree with this approach, and so would most I think. It reminds me of the discussion Richards and Neville had last season about Conte and Rangnick. Neville was seeing the long term, whereas Conte probably have had a better chance at getting us top 4 last season. Keane is falling into the same trap here I think - pandering to Ronaldo now might nick you a result here and there (for a born winner like Keane results are everything so I see his point) at the expense of something more sustainable and long term - let's call it the Neville POV instead.

I'm with Gary on this one, but I would still back Ronaldo to be our top scorer like last season if be was playing regularly. But if we cement a style now, identify the exact striker we want for the summer, and I think the change we'd see in the team is worth this teething period where we are seeing good performances and a clear style without the quality to finish it off up front. For too long now we've seen the converse papering over the cracks in our play.

 

[stevoc]

He was right in the sense that you can't hang your hat on Rashford, and Ronaldo if playing every game would probably be our top goalscorer.

But Neville and Hasselbaink were right (and I hate to admit Hasselbaink is right), Ronaldo doesn't give enough to deserve being in the team right now.

Keane's comments are like "If you put Ronaldo in that team today and the game went exactly as it did but with him on the end of the chances, he would have scored". OK, fair enough. But the counter argument is that if Ronaldo is in the team, we don't play well, so the argument is too conditional.

I do think Keane is right that this doesn't have to be the end for Ronaldo. Players down the years have done similar at both United and other clubs, and have come back. The real problem is that Ronaldo is a Europa League player and an impact sub right now. He would have been a great option off the bench for the last 20 minutes against Chelsea, but he can't accept that's his role at 37. If ETH can get him to accept that, I'd happily see him stay as he will win you an odd game here and there.

For Keane, it all sounded a little personal on Saturday. It was like he was seeing some mirror images to the end of his own career and his view that he was treated unfairly. For me, it just boils down to the fact that we don't have the quality to carry Ronaldo for that one or two chances we can create for him. It's not disrespect, just the harsh reality.

Doubtful but if that were the case we would probably be sacrificing goals from other areas and attacking capability in general to accommodate him as you've alluded to. Keane's full of shit here, kept waffling on about Ronaldo scoring 1 every 2 games. But he only has 2 in 12 this season and one of those was a penalty.

The likes of Scholes and Giggs (a player Ronaldo played with) were winners just like countless other players that were serial winners that took a backseat role at the end of their careers and became bit part players but stayed professional role models (on the pitch) to younger players. Ronaldo's just being a selfish prat with his recent behaviour, there's no excuse for it.

 

[Mr. Robot]

Keane is a rent-a-quote. He's not that different from Souness. Says something the media will run with and get fans talking.

I actually don't listen to any ex-players these days because the game has evolved and isn't anything like when they played. The pundits like Keano are paid to give an opinion, and that's what he does.

I enjoy listening to him when it's about football in his day. But he doesn't half come out with some garbage when it comes to modern-day United.

 

[eire-red]

Doubtful but if if that were the case we would probably be sacrificing goals form other areas and attacking capability in general to accommodate him as you've alluded to. Keane's full of shit here, kept waffling on about Ronaldo scoring 1 every 2 games. But he only has 2 in 12 this season and one of those was a penalty.

The likes of Scholes and Giggs (a player Ronaldo played with) were winners just like countless other players that were serial winners that took a backseat role at the end of their careers and became bit part players but stayed professional role models (on the pitch) to younger players. Ronaldo's just being a selfish prat with his recent behaviour, there's no excuse for it.

Yeah 100% agreed with all you said. He'd be an amazing character to have around if he could accept a bit-part role. If we had a clinical striker right now tucking away those chances, Ronaldo wouldn't be in the discussion.

But Rashford's lack of killer touch is highlighting what we lack when Ronaldo isn't playing, but the other 90% of Rashford's game highlights what we lack when Ronaldo plays. It makes it easy for pundits like Keane to validate their point and highlight clear cut chances and say "Ronaldo would have scored." Yeah probably, but he's not going to do it enough to warrant sacrificing a style of play just for his goals.

But it's easy to make a point with only the right now, or the next game in question.

 

[Tower of Babel]

Don't always agree with Roy but I have to side with him here. Cristiano doesn’t even get the chance from ten Hag so how can you blame him for not scoring every game? You got footballers and you got footballers from a different category and Cristiano is one of them. You don’t bring Ronaldo on in the 90th minute against Spurs when you’re 2-0 up. Hell such an important and great player as Cristiano in such an important game you have got to start him. You don’t take Ronaldo off in the 70th minute against Newcastle when the score is 0-0 simply because history has shown that the majority of the times he comes up clutch with an important goal when his team needs it (I have no doubt he would have scored that last minute header Rashford squandered). Seriously, everyone can keep destroying him in the media for not delivering in terms of goals but it’s completely Erik ten Hag’s fault. When you don’t give a player game time it affects his rhythm, form and confidence. This way you will never get the best out of Cristiano Ronaldo and that’s a pity cause when you do you’ll be amazed. Honestly I think it would take a very special manager to be able to utilise Ronaldo in a top team. Probably Fergie could do.

 

[kthanksbye]

It was annoying watching him defend Ronaldo the other day, any other player and he's have gone on a rant about how modern players have no respect for the manager and how they should be taught a lesson and made an example out of, but for some reason he loves Ronaldo and he can't see past it.
I usually don't care about what our ex players say, they've got their own preferences and agendas and I never trust them to have a neutral perspective.
Keane almost went on to blame ETH for the situation when he said that it wasn't the best idea to bring Ronaldo on with 2 mins remaining. Immediately realized how stupid that take was and said, I'm not absolving Ronaldo of any blame.

 

[JustCoco]

Imagine watching the TV, and seeing Keane melt down......and your take away is everyone is going overboard


Absolutely love Keane but that was insane his antics. Literally running down the team and the manager to prop up a player who walked of the pitch early. Bonkers

I see it as he merely pointed out that Ronaldo has done what others have, is happy to serve his punishment and should be welcome into the team as many before him have.

We need goals and not won enough games, where exactly is he wrong?

He never had a pop at ETH just because he pointed out an obvious fact, we're 5th.

 

[mu4c_20le]

It was annoying watching him defend Ronaldo the other day, any other player and he's have gone on a rant about how modern players have no respect for the manager and how they should be taught a lesson and made an example out of, but for some reason he loves Ronaldo and he can't see past it.
I usually don't care about what our ex players say, they've got their own preferences and agendas and I never trust them to have a neutral perspective.
Keane almost went on to blame ETH for the situation when he said that it wasn't the best idea to bring Ronaldo on with 2 mins remaining. Immediately realized how stupid that take was and said, I'm not absolving Ronaldo of any blame.

Just curious, has he ever said this as a pundit? Because this is the guy who walked out on his manager at the world cup.

 

[stevoc]

Yeah 100% agreed with all you said. He'd be an amazing character to have around if he could accept a bit-part role. If we had a clinical striker right now tucking away those chances, Ronaldo wouldn't be in the discussion.

But Rashford's lack of killer touch is highlighting what we lack when Ronaldo isn't playing, but the other 90% of Rashford's game highlights what we lack when Ronaldo plays. It makes it easy for pundits like Keane to validate their point and highlight clear cut chances and say "Ronaldo would have scored." Yeah probably, but he's not going to do it enough to warrant sacrificing a style of play just for his goals.

But it's easy to make a point with only the right now, or the next game in question.

Yeah the situation with those two highlights how badly we need a complete striker. Ideally Rashford should be doing the running in game with Ronaldo coming on when the opposition are tiring and scoring late goals with his finishing ability.

But Ronny still seems to think he's one of the best in the world at 37 and too good to sit on the bench.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Keane is my man, even though he could be wrong on this, he does make a few valid points there (regarding Scholes, Rio, Cantona).

 

[Oranges038]

Just curious, has he ever said this as a pundit? Because this is the guy who walked out on his manager at the world cup.

Not strictly true. He was annoyed by the training facilities, the lack of equipment, the state of the pitches, the players travelling in the squashed economy seats while the suits travelled first class. The whole thing boiled over when he had an argument over the keepers taking part in a 5 aside game, the press got wind of it and it grew legs from there. There was no issue, he had breakfast with Alan Kelly and Packie Bonner the next morning. Then Mick came in with a paper and called him out in front of the whole squad at a dinner and accused him of faking an injury to get out of a game, Roy defended himself in is his own way, they had an argument at the end of which Roy told him to make a decision and Mick sent him home. He could have handled it better, so could Mick, he could have bit his tongue and stayed but he didn't just walk out.

 

[Real Name]

He really loses all credibility when talking about Ronaldo.

 

[bosskeano]

Keano, there's only one Keano!!!

 

[Irish Bhoy]

Just curious, has he ever said this as a pundit? Because this is the guy who walked out on his manager at the world cup.

To be fair, he didn't walk out, he was sent home. His seething anger was justifiable as we didn't even have footballs or cones when we first arrived in Saipan and then when balls and cones arrived, we trained on a hard surface initially, not a grass pitch. Absolute shambles, I saw an interview Damien Duff did, and he said it was a shambles also.

You may argue he created the conditions to be sent home by his behaviour, but as captain, he was right to go off on one for reasons outlined above. The argument with Mick McCarthy happened, then it was sorted, then Keane did an interview with a journalist and McCarthy wasn't happy and then it exploded again and McCarthy sent him home. Keane probably should not have done that interview, but he did and the rest is history.

 

[Glorio]

He was right in the sense that you can't hang your hat on Rashford, and Ronaldo if playing every game would probably be our top goalscorer.

But Neville and Hasselbaink were right (and I hate to admit Hasselbaink is right), Ronaldo doesn't give enough to deserve being in the team right now.

Keane's comments are like "If you put Ronaldo in that team today and the game went exactly as it did but with him on the end of the chances, he would have scored". OK, fair enough. But the counter argument is that if Ronaldo is in the team, we don't play well, so the argument is too conditional.

I do think Keane is right that this doesn't have to be the end for Ronaldo. Players down the years have done similar at both United and other clubs, and have come back. The real problem is that Ronaldo is a Europa League player and an impact sub right now. He would have been a great option off the bench for the last 20 minutes against Chelsea, but he can't accept that's his role at 37. If ETH can get him to accept that, I'd happily see him stay as he will win you an odd game here and there.

For Keane, it all sounded a little personal on Saturday. It was like he was seeing some mirror images to the end of his own career and his view that he was treated unfairly. For me, it just boils down to the fact that we don't have the quality to carry Ronaldo for that one or two chances we can create for him. It's not disrespect, just the harsh reality.

Ronaldo has started a good few games and done nothing. Even with the whole team trying to feed goals down his throat.

You're right that it doesn't have to be the end for Ronaldo, but it should be. His performances do not justify the drama at all

 

[Glorio]

I see it as he merely pointed out that Ronaldo has done what others have, is happy to serve his punishment and should be welcome into the team as many before him have.

We need goals and not won enough games, where exactly is he wrong?

He never had a pop at ETH just because he pointed out an obvious fact, we're 5th.

He was being idiotic. After those 2 unfortunate games at the start of the season, ETH is definitely winning games, and he's doing so despite Ronaldo. In fact, we've won a lot more without him than with him.

 

[eire-red]

Ronaldo has started a good few games and done nothing. Even with the whole team trying to feed goals down his throat.

You're right that it doesn't have to be the end for Ronaldo, but it should be. His performances do not justify the drama at all

It's only even an argument now because we're not scoring freely, and you rightly point out that we haven't been scoring freely with Ronaldo in the team either.

But for a pundit, it's easy to sit there and point to the guy with over 800 career goals and say he should play when we're struggling for goals. But what it takes from our overall game is too much when Ronaldo starts up front.

Keane isn't way out of line, but I think he's kind of missing the bigger picture a little.

 

[Raoul]

He's stubborn. Reminds me a bit of his post retirement beef with Fergie.

 

[Foxbatt]

Keane is my man, even though he could be wrong on this, he does make a few valid points there (regarding Scholes, Rio, Cantona).

He doesn't. Scholes was punished for refusing to play. He never did it again. Rio missed his testing due to an almighty confusion. Cantona never disrespected his manager or his club.
Ronaldo did it twice.

 

[djembatheking]

Love Keane to bits but he is wrong here. I hope he keeps bigging Ronaldo up though, Rio too because Ronaldo will believe them and think they are right that he still is the best and carry on with his normal self centred arrogant attitude which will give Ten Hag the perfect excuse to leave him out and the team can benefit without him as they seem so much happier and united out on the pitch when he isn`t there.

 

[jem]

I have a lot of time for Roy but at the moment he just seems to be contrary just for the sake of it - a kind of Eddie Jones of the football world

Same. Probably my favourite player ever, but he's becoming more and more the drunk uncle that you humour at family gatherings.

 

[Marwood]

To be fair, he didn't walk out, he was sent home. His seething anger was justifiable as we didn't even have footballs or cones when we first arrived in Saipan and then when balls and cones arrived, we trained on a hard surface initially, not a grass pitch. Absolute shambles, I saw an interview Damien Duff did, and he said it was a shambles also.

You may argue he created the conditions to be sent home by his behaviour, but as captain, he was right to go off on one for reasons outlined above. The argument with Mick McCarthy happened, then it was sorted, then Keane did an interview with a journalist and McCarthy wasn't happy and then it exploded again and McCarthy sent him home. Keane probably should not have done that interview, but he did and the rest is history.

But you can't strop everytime something isn't to your liking. That's life sometimes.

At the end of his time at United he was having a tantrum because his villa on the pre season tour wasn't good enough. Amongst other things.

Will always love Keane for how he was on the pitch and I like his punditry and media stuff now because he's different and has a sense of humour.

But I personally wouldn't listen to him in a serious sense. He's too erratic.

Imagine Roy if he wasn't a footballer with this personality? Where would he fit in life?

 

[poleglass red]

I usually have a lot of time for Keane, but he is so wrong here it's frustrating. We play better as a team when he isn't there, it's as simple as that. There is also this notion that we wouldn't let him leave in the summer, no-one wanted him when his agent was offering him to clubs.ETH was right to leave him out of the Chelsea game, Ronaldo did the best he could do in this scenario and made a public apology. Ideally he never plays again for us, but we are so light up top, and with games coming up, he may still get a run out.

 

[RedRonaldo]

He doesn't. Scholes was punished for refusing to play. He never did it again. Rio missed his testing due to an almighty confusion. Cantona never disrespected his manager or his club.
Ronaldo did it twice.

Lets not nimpicking the details and give excuse to the players based on favouritism. They've all made mistake, and they've all came back to play after serving their punishment.

 

[Gazza]

Lets not nimpicking the details and give excuse to the players based on favouritism. They've all made mistake, and they've all came back to play after getting their punishment.

The guy you replied to provided plenty context for why they’re different situations, you just don’t have a response to them so you’re on about nitpicking details! You’re brilliant.

 

[moses]

Roy is just having PTSD at his own exit. This has nothing to with Ronaldo. Cop on Roy you big eejit.

 

[RedRonaldo]

The guy you replied to provided plenty context for why they’re different situations, you just don’t have a response to them so you’re on about nitpicking details! You’re brilliant.

Nah they are not much different in principle. In fact, one could argue some of them are even worst.

 

[Shinjch]

I think it is more of a loyalty thing with Keane. He still sees Ronaldo as a teammate of his, and he will be loyal to him in the media no matter what.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Seems a bit weird hill to die on.

 

[Seveneric]

Keane has been rambling and spouting stupid shite for years, even before Fergie retired. Did people just forget this?

I ask because loads of people seem to be acting like he's always been some sane, balanced person and this Ronaldo thing is an exception, when it's actually par for the course with the man. He's been a perennially bitter ass, and this Ronaldo thing is another avenue for him to show it, it never left.

 

[mu4c_20le]

To be fair, he didn't walk out, he was sent home. His seething anger was justifiable as we didn't even have footballs or cones when we first arrived in Saipan and then when balls and cones arrived, we trained on a hard surface initially, not a grass pitch. Absolute shambles, I saw an interview Damien Duff did, and he said it was a shambles also.

You may argue he created the conditions to be sent home by his behaviour, but as captain, he was right to go off on one for reasons outlined above. The argument with Mick McCarthy happened, then it was sorted, then Keane did an interview with a journalist and McCarthy wasn't happy and then it exploded again and McCarthy sent him home. Keane probably should not have done that interview, but he did and the rest is history.

Okay, but he still called him a fecking wanker. So I'd be surprised if Keane ever said players should always respect the manager no matter what, he himself only did because it was SAF most of his life and their goals and personalities aligned. Until the very end when standards had slipped to alarming levels and he had to speak out.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Not strictly true. He was annoyed by the training facilities, the lack of equipment, the state of the pitches, the players travelling in the squashed economy seats while the suits travelled first class. The whole thing boiled over when he had an argument over the keepers taking part in a 5 aside game, the press got wind of it and it grew legs from there. There was no issue, he had breakfast with Alan Kelly and Packie Bonner the next morning. Then Mick came in with a paper and called him out in front of the whole squad at a dinner and accused him of faking an injury to get out of a game, Roy defended himself in is his own way, they had an argument at the end of which Roy told him to make a decision and Mick sent him home. He could have handled it better, so could Mick, he could have bit his tongue and stayed but he didn't just walk out.

I misremembered because Niall Quinn said he walked out on them, so I always thought he did a mic drop after destroying Mccarthy and left

 

[Foxbatt]

Lets not nimpicking the details and give excuse to the players based on favouritism. They've all made mistake, and they've all came back to play after serving their punishment.

It's not nitpicking. Every situation was different. I didn't like the fact that Scholes refused to play even then. He was fined and suspended and rightly so. He didn't repeat it after that. With Ronaldo it's the second time this season. Cantona and Rio apologised publicly too. Plus their suspension was not by the club anyway . They didn't disrespect SAF nor their team mates.

 

[Foxbatt]

Nah they are not much different in principle. In fact, one could argue some of them are even worst.

You must have a weird sense then if what Rio, Eric and Scholes did is worse as per disrespect to the manager and team.

 

[RVN1991]

I say this as somebody who wouldn’t have Ronaldo in my first 11 and as someone who is looking beyond Ronaldo to the future.

I love that Keane is bang on Ronaldo’s side. They are both absolute winners with that drive that takes them to the very top of their capabilities. There are some players who people thought were better and they got nowhere near these two in terms of consistency of performance.

Keane, Ronaldo, Becks the three most driven and consistently brilliant players I’ve seen at United. By a LONG way.

That whole "winner" argument is so ludicrous in this specific situation considering the team has looked 10x better without Ronaldo in the lineup. If he was such a winner then he'd be in favor of having better players starting over him. He's about his own personal stats, guaranteed that he would prefer to score 40 league goals and have the team relegated than win the title while being a back up scoring a fraction of that, miss me with that "winner" nonsense.

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

That whole "winner" argument is so ludicrous in this specific situation considering the team has looked 10x better without Ronaldo in the lineup. If he was such a winner then he'd be in favor of having better players starting over him. He's about his own personal stats, guaranteed that he would prefer to score 40 league goals and have the team relegated than win the title while being a back up scoring a fraction of that, miss me with that "winner" nonsense.

Also the team that Keano was happily trashing last year contained Varane who has proven himself to be a "winner" to just as great a degree as Ronaldo. And we've added in Casemiro to the side that he was implying didn't have the right attitude when he said that they were overly satisfied after the Spurs performance.

 

[Zlaatan]

It's not nitpicking. Every situation was different. I didn't like the fact that Scholes refused to play even then. He was fined and suspended and rightly so. He didn't repeat it after that. With Ronaldo it's the second time this season. Cantona and Rio apologised publicly too. Plus their suspension was not by the club anyway . They didn't disrespect SAF nor their team mates.

Nor did they do it in front of 75000 fans and millions of people watching on tv.

I'll never understand how anyone could look at this situation and go - "but those guys also did something bad" as if that makes it more ok.

 

[Adebisi's Hat]

Some interesting points lads on this thread and i must admit i somehow forgot about the whole Saipan episode. This may explain the mind of Roy and why he is siding or at least very sympathetic to Ronaldo on this one. He sees it as an honorable stand to walk out on real or perceived incompetence. I think Roys mistake though in making this parallel is that whatever similarities he possibly (in his mind) may see between Utds board and the FAI, one thing for sure is that ETH is no Mick McCarthy.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Love Keano but he’s making himself look a right fanny with his takes on ETH and Ronaldo.

 

[Jeppers7]

That whole "winner" argument is so ludicrous in this specific situation considering the team has looked 10x better without Ronaldo in the lineup. If he was such a winner then he'd be in favor of having better players starting over him. He's about his own personal stats, guaranteed that he would prefer to score 40 league goals and have the team relegated than win the title while being a back up scoring a fraction of that, miss me with that "winner" nonsense.

Ronaldo is 37 now, that’s the only reason any of this post is true. That he can’t accept his own mortality is certainly an issue.
That being said your the dumbest person I’ve ever come across if you honestly believe Ronaldo is not a winner.