Poch's Spurs got to the CL final using it, too.
Roy Keane
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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Poch's Spurs got to the CL final using it, too.
As I said I haven’t followed him and his opinions, but if he has been saying the same thing for many years, that can explain how he came to the odd conclusion that it was only the players’ fault, and not Ole’s. It can be refreshing having someone saying what he wants instead of always diving in to analysis, absolutely.
Ole? Ruthless ?
They say so. But maybe your opinions based on your own views count more? Or can you back up your claim?
I don’t need to back anything up. Our current form speaks volumes about the current coaching set up. Playing Pogba when our best formation is without him. I could go on but looking at the league table is enough to depress me.
The guy is a legend as a Utd player and nothing will ever change that but seriously, he should never have been given the job full time.
Pogba was incredible against Leipzig. That's why he started against Arsenal. He set-up Greenwood for the opener to start our game against Leipzig.
The problem as always, is consistency, throughout the team.
Where was the Rashford that played against Leipzig?
Fred & McT have won every midfield battle but with 4 CM's we lost the midfield battle with them.
It's bizarre.
The common denominator is Pogba’s form. He’s capable of great passages of play combined with absolute dog shit. The penalties he’s given away are of U12 level not a WC winner. We all know what a talent he is but from game to game he looks arrogant, wanting to win games on his own
That is the laziest analysis I've seen.
Pogba isn't responsible for the slow tumescent passing of our back 4. Pogba isn't responsible for the lack of effort or pressing from Rashford. Pogba isn't responsible for Fred and McT being nowhere near an Arsenal player in winning the ball back.
Pogba being inconsistent explains his own form. That doesn't explain the form of the other 10 players on the pitch who all have a job to do.
Rashford is as bad as Pogba for his yo-yo performances and effort. Like Keane said, he just walked around shrugging his shoulders yesterday, didn't bother setting the standard.
Bruno came in and seemed to set the standard last season, now it seems even he has dropped to the level of those around him.
I see. So its a Ole out thingy, not actually a respons to the comments I made.
I have genuinely never heard this insult before.
The lazy analysis is giving him a free pass while blaming others around him. But it’s what I’ve come to expect from Pogba fan boys like yourself
Funny because I don't like Pogba.
He doesn't get a free pass from anyone. He doesn't explain the teams performances though like you bizarrely seem to think is the case.
Very odd.
Your comments about him being ruthless were hilarious. If he were, I think quite a few players would have been dropped by now
Listening to Keane, I say he gets it right and wrong.
Wrong in the sense that he is trying his very best not to lay any blame on Ole for anything.
But I think he's also right in saying a manager shouldn't have to motivate his players.
They're professional footballers. They should love what they do.
Obviously for Roy Keane, playing for Manchester United is something you should be inspired for and grateful for, but we hardly see that anymore from the players we sign, bar a few.
These guys earn so much money, they can afford psychotherapists for each day of the week. The club has a few as well probably.
No motivation shouldn't really be an excuse for an professional footballer, let alone players on the elite stage.
Wrong in the sense that he is trying his very best not to lay any blame on Ole for anything.
But I think he's also right in saying a manager shouldn't have to motivate his players.
They're professional footballers. They should love what they do.
Obviously for Roy Keane, playing for Manchester United is something you should be inspired for and grateful for, but we hardly see that anymore from the players we sign, bar a few.
These guys earn so much money, they can afford psychotherapists for each day of the week. The club has a few as well probably.
No motivation shouldn't really be an excuse for an professional footballer, let alone players on the elite stage.
Roy were already old school during his own career. Now he’s ancient. And he’s trying to incorporate his ways on today’s footballers. Good luck with that Roy...
So.....not diamonds then?
The only coach who seems to have regularly deployed a 4-1-2-1-2 is Ancelotti from what people have posted. Seems to have had some success at Milan but got him the sack at Chelsea.
But in any case, as I said earlier, there will always be exceptions that prove the rule. Overall very, very few teams have successfully deployed a 4-1-2-1-2
Exactly, he's a gobshite. His only contribution is to defend his mates while harking on about heart and character. He was being schooled by Tim Cahill for crying out loud. Cahill made the point Arsenal knew why they were losing games, if Keanos answer to losing is that the players didn't show enough character rather than analysing where they maybe got things wrong then it would explain his incredibly underwhelming managerial career.
I say this as an Irish fan, the man's an aggressive prick with no self-awareness. His opinion is utterly worthless but he'll inevitably drive clicks. The shite he was spouting about Jon Walters a year or two back should be enough to know he's an angry old man ranting at the clouds.
One million, no one trillion times a better player than SolsKjaer. He truly bleeds United
Man so far off the mark.the guy is immense and the new generations of softly softlys couldn’t handle him so pop at him. He is exactly what we need on the pitch right now. But Roy Keene’s are generational players and don’t grow on trees
I think that's the fashionable way to describe Keane at the minute ie "old school" but in all honesty it's nonsense. Forget about his drive and desire, he was a hell of a player who could dictate the pace of the game. He looked after himself off the pitch. He wanted his teammates to play to their full potential, if that's considered old school, we are in a heap more trouble than I thought. On one hand we moan about not having leaders and then criticise someone who points it out, someone whose been there and done it. People are saying he isn't offering a tactical insight, how can you, when players aren't, as per their own manager, motivated enough to play Arsenal. I've criticised Keano in the past on here but I think he was right in this instance. I also think he was right to pull up Cahill when he trying to big up Arteta , he's not there yet, like Ole is right now, consistency is their biggest issue. Some are accusing Keane of backing up his old teammate in Ole, if that's the case then Cahill was doing the exact same, he played in same Everton team as Arteta for nearly 7 seasons.
I get what you're saying, but against Arsenal I felt like our shape was all wrong, just to accommodate Pogba.
That's what's been bugging me lately. Why all the clamour and fanfare of 'Pogba has to play' and 'we need to fit him in the squad' when he's not really playing that well.
I think people are getting fed up of the soap opera around him. We needed 3 up top against Arsenal against their back 5, we needed some width in our play. There was no need to play a diamond, yet we did.
In reality, two of McTominay/Fred/Matic provide a balanced platform for Bruno and the front three to attack. Throwing Pogba into the mix just made us look out of shape. Even Ole's subs, I would have left Greenwood on, brought on Cavani, VDB and Matic for Pogba, McTominay and Fred, and gone 433. Why did we need McTominay and Matic in those latter stages? Why did Bruno come off and Pogba stay on? So many questions.
But you're right, he's not the root cause of all our problems. However, we did play a formation to accommodate Pogba and Bruno together, only for it to fail and Pogba to give away a stupid penalty. It leaves a sour taste in the mouth.
I felt Pogba was the only midfielder who kept his shape in a diamond.
Fred was no where near the centre of midfield and was deep as Mctomminay in a double pivot. Bruno didnt keep his position as the tip of a diamond and was always moving trying to get the ball.
Not a backer of Pogba but I felt like he was playing as a centre midfielder totally by himself. Not a single player in the centre apart from him who could try make a pass forward.
Roy Keane the player and Roy Keane the pundit are two different beasts. As a player he was phenomenonal, no doubting that. As a pundit/manager/person he's a gobshite.
He needs to learn theres more than one way to skin a cat, constantly calling people soft or questioning their character is nonsense. The game has moved on from who can run the hardest, and the fact he was such a good player but can't recognise that is crazy. He's got a very one eyed view on the world. I honestly think he feels like he's a victim and he carries a lot of bitterness. It would explain his constant need to try and belittle others.
I've no time for him and his constant run ins with players as asst manager at Ireland show he can't interact with people anymore.
Anyway, guaranteed he'll be on TV again in the next few weeks moaning about lack of character again because that's all he has to offer. Why people listen to him I don't understand. Dude can't even get a gig outside of being miserable on TV anymore. Him and Souness are two irrelevant old farts.
There’s no point interacting with morons who are just there to grab money. I love Keano, and everything he says is true. If you can’t handle the heat get out of the kitchen but in today’s world, if you can’t handle the heat you try and extinguish it
Oh aye, Big Jon Walters only in it for the money. Keano called him out when he was on TV talking about how his mum dying affected him. How is that justifiable? Roy Keane is such a one note hard man it's embarrassing. He offers nothing other than shouting at people.
Pogba was incredible against Leipzig. That's why he started against Arsenal. He set-up Greenwood for the opener to start our game against Leipzig.
The problem as always, is consistency, throughout the team.
Where was the Rashford that played against Leipzig?
Fred & McT have won every midfield battle but with 4 CM's we lost the midfield battle with them.
It's bizarre.
This is problem, Pogba was "Incredible against Leipzig", this guy has never been incredible. 7/10 against Leipzig at best. Utd were winning this game whether this waste of space played or not. A 89M midfielder sets up a striker for goal and he is "incredible". You are probably right the fact that he was involved in any thing positive is probably incredible. The fact he is on the plane to Turkey is the worrying part as it means he could get a game.
The problem as always, is consistency, throughout the team.
Where was the Rashford that played against Leipzig?
Fred & McT have won every midfield battle but with 4 CM's we lost the midfield battle with them.
It's bizarre.
This is problem, Pogba was "Incredible against Leipzig", this guy has never been incredible. 7/10 against Leipzig at best. Utd were winning this game whether this waste of space played or not. A 89M midfielder sets up a striker for goal and he is "incredible". You are probably right the fact that he was involved in any thing positive is probably incredible. The fact he is on the plane to Turkey is the worrying part as it means he could get a game.
The shouting won us trophies. I was a shouter on the pitch and in the dressing room and I was captain of every team I played for. I’d rather have a Roy Keane over Ole any day, week, month., year, decade.
Keane's opinion has become such a broken record. "No heart, no character, shouldn't need a manager to motivate you". Okay Roy, we get it. Not every player in world football is like you.
If we could find another Keane, then that would be great. However, if we don't, then what are we going to do? Shout at the current players until they develop the same character that he had? Or try to work around it and find a way to make things work in a modern football pool of players where people like him are in a minority?
I mean, if we look around world football as a whole, how many players are there you could say really have the sort of character and fire that Keane had? Probably the only people I can think about are Ibra and Ramos.
If we could find another Keane, then that would be great. However, if we don't, then what are we going to do? Shout at the current players until they develop the same character that he had? Or try to work around it and find a way to make things work in a modern football pool of players where people like him are in a minority?
I mean, if we look around world football as a whole, how many players are there you could say really have the sort of character and fire that Keane had? Probably the only people I can think about are Ibra and Ramos.
No it did not. He was a part of a team that had balance, could defend and could attack and everyone pulled in the same direction. Claiming it's down to him roaring his head off is incredibly reductive.
And you only need to look at how awful his managerial career has been to see that it takes more than setting some imaginary standard of 'heart' and character' to be successful. He was a great player because he was a baller as well as being determined and working for it not because of it. Nowadays he offers nothing but the chip on his shoulder.
this
Carrick or Keane for you?
As an Irishman growing up watching Utd I loved Keane.
Took me a while to warm to Carrick but I loved his partnership with Scholes around 2008. He became an integral part of the team for a long, long time and still hasn't been replaced.
Both good players, both bring different qualities and both would walk into this current team despite the depth we currently have there.
I think you take his demeanour far too seriously. He’ll be bloody contrary as an antidote to the boring, insipid pundits on Sky right now. Evra is the only one I can watch for a touch of personality.
If you just want good insight then Danny Higginbotham is by far the best
I personally dont like the guy. Had his spell here when he was a great player for us but points at all his teammates and nothing about himself.
I dont think he would be as consistent in the modern game as he was back in the day.
Much prefer Scholes as a player I'd bring back or even Carrick.
I dont think he would be as consistent in the modern game as he was back in the day.
Much prefer Scholes as a player I'd bring back or even Carrick.
Keane is spot on with his emphasis on leadership, mentality and hard work. The talent in the team is there so he will talk about other things.
Of course the manager has to take the overall responsibility and Keane said a few weeks ago that Ole’s honeymoon period is over. That doesn’t mean that players shouldn’t do better themselves and not act as if they have done it all just after a good win.
Keane has also stated several times that he wasn’t the only leader in the United dressing room and that a lot of his teammates took responsibility themselves. United wouldn’t have won so many trophies in the Keane era if the players had started to slow down everytime they won a trophy, let alone a couple of games.
The managers will leave if they can’t turn it around but most of the players will stay. However players being inconsistent with different managers suggests that they also need to work on a few things which go beyond the managers.
Mentality, strong characters, hard work, etc. are very important in football and have nothing to do with being old school. That doesn’t mean that talent and the competencies of the manager aren’t important but I am sure Keane knows that having been part of a very successful United era.
Of course the manager has to take the overall responsibility and Keane said a few weeks ago that Ole’s honeymoon period is over. That doesn’t mean that players shouldn’t do better themselves and not act as if they have done it all just after a good win.
Keane has also stated several times that he wasn’t the only leader in the United dressing room and that a lot of his teammates took responsibility themselves. United wouldn’t have won so many trophies in the Keane era if the players had started to slow down everytime they won a trophy, let alone a couple of games.
The managers will leave if they can’t turn it around but most of the players will stay. However players being inconsistent with different managers suggests that they also need to work on a few things which go beyond the managers.
Mentality, strong characters, hard work, etc. are very important in football and have nothing to do with being old school. That doesn’t mean that talent and the competencies of the manager aren’t important but I am sure Keane knows that having been part of a very successful United era.
Yeah that's what I mean. The formation was tailored to suit him in that slightly to the left midfield channel, where he played for Juve and many believe is his best position.
He didn't do anywhere near enough on the pitch though in his favoured position. All the diamond ended up doing was giving us a lopsided midfield with McTominay ineffectual, and no width up front.
I just feel at the moment we're a more balanced team without him, and Ole needs to realise that Pogba isn't going to 'come good' and be the well-rounded midfielder he seems to think he can be. At the moment, I don't see how you get him and Bruno in the team, and for me it's a no brainer who loses out.
Such a shame too, cause he's a baller on his day, and virtually irreplaceable in terms of the raw ability he has. Means nothing though when you don't have the attitude/footballing intelligence that someone less gifted like Bruno possesses in spades.
Been on Cafe for 5 years, following United for 20.
The responses around Keane post-retirement is the same old shite. That he's only a hard man and can't tell tactics, focusing only on character. There's been almost no advancement in the discussion since.. well.. forever.
This is not to say the characterization isn't true, even if overly simplistic.
I do think we really underestimate the value of mentality, character and leadership. Football is a competitive sport, and all the gifts don't amount to much if you don't have the right mentality e.g. Deisler, Bentley. I do think that having a high base ability with the ball is a prerequisite to be an MUFC player, and that our success has coincided with mental traits more than extreme gifts. Yes, Ronaldo was gifted but his mentality is amongst the best in the world. Such is also true with Rooney. And many of our players.
When Roy says he thinks the current team, as has been most of our teams post-SAF, are mentally weak.. it's undeniably true as of today. It's not about yelling, screaming and kicking your opponents off the field as it is more about FORTITUDE. The strength, determination and courage that gets tested when you're down.
The responses around Keane post-retirement is the same old shite. That he's only a hard man and can't tell tactics, focusing only on character. There's been almost no advancement in the discussion since.. well.. forever.
This is not to say the characterization isn't true, even if overly simplistic.
I do think we really underestimate the value of mentality, character and leadership. Football is a competitive sport, and all the gifts don't amount to much if you don't have the right mentality e.g. Deisler, Bentley. I do think that having a high base ability with the ball is a prerequisite to be an MUFC player, and that our success has coincided with mental traits more than extreme gifts. Yes, Ronaldo was gifted but his mentality is amongst the best in the world. Such is also true with Rooney. And many of our players.
When Roy says he thinks the current team, as has been most of our teams post-SAF, are mentally weak.. it's undeniably true as of today. It's not about yelling, screaming and kicking your opponents off the field as it is more about FORTITUDE. The strength, determination and courage that gets tested when you're down.
He has spot on about these players. They are an absolute disgrace and there is no leadership or character at all.
Wait till Friday and watch them posing for selfish on their way to play Everton not caring one bit as they will keep getting paid.
Ole meanwhile will lose his job and the next guy can face the same bunch of absolute wasters before they turn on him too.
Wait till Friday and watch them posing for selfish on their way to play Everton not caring one bit as they will keep getting paid.
Ole meanwhile will lose his job and the next guy can face the same bunch of absolute wasters before they turn on him too.
Will he say a single word about his mate? Call him out on his out of depthness?
"Tells it like it is". Yeah, right. Unless it's his mate.
"Tells it like it is". Yeah, right. Unless it's his mate.