Roy Keane
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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Keano is just an angry fan. He is the opposite of Ole, who comes across as just too damn nice. We need someone who is calm like Ole but who can also channel some anger when necessary.
Refuse to criticise Ole again (just like Gary), and only blame it all on the players.
Not saying the players doesn't deserve it mind. His friend Ole also deserve deserved criticisms.
Not saying the players doesn't deserve it mind. His friend Ole also deserve deserved criticisms.
I like Keane but It’s not really analysis is it? Every time we lose a game it’s the same old “the players don’t care, no leaders, poor body language” etc...I don’t buy into it with this team.
The biggest problem yesterday was a ridiculous formation that hasn’t worked for any team ever and that t**t Pogba. It’s got nothing to do with effort.
The biggest problem yesterday was a ridiculous formation that hasn’t worked for any team ever and that t**t Pogba. It’s got nothing to do with effort.
Before the match he’s giving it ‘I expect United to win comfortably’ and then post match it’s his usual ‘long way back for United.’
He's said the same thing for years in fairness, he said it about Jose as well I think. He was asked about the manager being unable to motivate the players and said stuff like that is bollocks, they should be able to motivate themselves. Whilst people may not agree with his view I don't think he's doing it only cos Ole is his ex teammate cos he did the same with Jose. He obviously sees the key problem being the players and he has a point considering most of them have out lasted 2, 3 or 4 managers at the club now.
He's not really that kind of pundit to be fair though he's there to do what he does. Carragher/Neville etc analyise the games tactically people like Keane (and Souness to an extent although he does both) are there to do this kind of stuff and it gets viewers. I bet if you look at their football YouTube the Keane videos are probably some of the most watched.
I actually enjoy watching it. It's good to see people call out the players on being useless. I agree with others saying Ole can take some of the blame and Cahill/Redknapp did that yesterday as well. I get Keane isn't everyones cup of tea which is fair enough but I do enjoy him myself.
Ole is on record saying he and Keane are very good mates off the pitch. There is no need for outrage at his refusal to point fingers.
Keane basically saying that Ole will lose his job because of his useless players. Of course the players have a responsibility, but yesterday didn’t look like a tactical masterpiece, did it?
Didn’t think he was as good yesterday as he usually is looked like he was just off the piss with that beard and come across very angry. Still like him mind and agree with the idea the players aren’t showing enough heart. Where’s the hard tackles or drive shown to lift the team?
I’m very much pro-Ole but he got it wrong yesterday. That ridiculous diamond idea is the kind of stuff kids do on Champ Manager to get all their favourite players into the team, I can’t think of one side who have had any success playing a diamond
I think Keane was right about us lacking leaders once Bruno left the pitch we looked Leaderless . People Will try and paint him as a villain for having a vo at the players attitude but he was right I too expected us to win after the "turning of the corner " with Leipzig and PSG ,but afterwards once again it feels like a long way back to PL glory and I dont think many can argue with that .
It worked against Leipzig to be fair, and furthermore, it's less about fitting his favourite players into his team, more so about shoehorning Pogba into one because dropping him for a prolonged spell would cause a furore
Keane is spot on.
There aren't any in this squad who'll go up to a player and tell him how shit he's played and to get his act together. No arguments in the dressing room. It's all navel gazing
There aren't any in this squad who'll go up to a player and tell him how shit he's played and to get his act together. No arguments in the dressing room. It's all navel gazing
We need to go to 3-5-2.
4-2-3-1 is a decade old and I don't think we quite have the attacking talent to go 4-3-3 (people will think we do, but to be honest only Rashford is good enough at the moment).
3-5-2 would allow us to play with wingbacks (getting the best out of Telles and possibly James, who otherwise is 100% surplus to requirements), get three of our six central midfielders in the game (but only one of Pogba or Fernandes) and build a new central forward partnership of Cavani and Rashford.
What we've seen only works in Europe against pretty opposition that don't like tackling and are happy to sit off. In the PL against quality players we've been shown up for what we really are.
Agree. I support Ole but it was a tactial disasterclass from start to finish.
Funny ever since Bruno did that to Lindelof during the Sevilla game Lindelof been much better..
This is my opinion as well. Yesterday, the players didn’t perform at their best, but they didn’t really have a big chance either because of the formation and tactics.
No it didn't and they have pundits who will say that as well and Keane doesn't shout up disagreeing, it seems like he just doesn't want to complete feck his mate over which whilst it may be some kind of conflict of interest (hardly a major one) it is fair enough and perfectly understandable. He has also said it's the players since Jose's days in charge who I don't think Keane has any real relationship with so it's obvious he does think it's the players and not the manager.
I don't know why people are seemingly so desperate for him to come out all guns blazing at Ole really.
It was really a tactical disasterclass. I’ve been pretty pro Ole but starting to think he has reached his ceiling with last seasons result. I mean, it must be either the tactics/training/coaching, or the players. And we see when Ole get the tactics right, the players are very talented. Does that mean Ole sometimes manage to lift the players to high level because of tactics, or does it mean he blocks their potential in games where he doesn’t get the tactics right? I’m leaning towards the latter. Yesterday was definitely a game where they didn’t really have much of a chance.
Its fine to dislike United’s players, most people in England do. It’s just strange that he explicitly said that Ole doesn’t have a chance with these players, in this very match where the tactics obviously were so bad.
I don't think that Ole or our coaches have the Motivation or Tactical nous to win any trophies here. 3 Semi finals last season and nowt.
It literally just worked a week ago against one of the best teams in Europe...
It was shite all-round yesterday. Having slept on it I think it's fair to apportion the blame probably 70% manager 30% players. There's no doubt the players lacked intensity, quality and leadership and Keane is right, they shouldn't need teeing up for Arsenal at home.
AC Milan, Chelsea, Juventus, and Toronto FC just off the top of my head.
But I guess Mourinho, Ancelotti, and Conte are just kids who play Champ manager.
Tactics weren’t great, but where’s the desire from this team? I don’t get it at all, they play like they don’t give a feck. Tactics are irrelevant if they players don’t want it. This is not in defence of Ole but changing manager won’t make this go away.
Not to mention Real Madrid won 2 CL titles in a row very recently with a midfield of Casemiro - Modric - Kroos - Isco.
Too many ex players like Roy laud the manager when it goes well and slate the players when it goes bad.
Managers are responsible for getting consistent performances after 2 years in the job, if you can’t manage it, you’re simply a manager of a top players, rather than a top manager.
Managers are responsible for getting consistent performances after 2 years in the job, if you can’t manage it, you’re simply a manager of a top players, rather than a top manager.
As opposed to on here where the players get the plaudits when we do well and Ole gets all the blame when it goes bad.
Ageeed, but my point is that he has been consistent with this, he hasn't just started saying it with Ole, he said it under Jose as well so I don't get the "he's just defending his mate" stuff cos I don't think him and Jose are mates. I'm not disagreeing regarding Ole, that's another topic all together just that Keane clearly thinks the players are the issue and has said it for about 3-4 years now.
Keane spot on, too much nice guys in this squad who don't care enough, maybe on instagram they do after a defeat but not during a game, I know football has changed, it's not as fierce as it once was but one of my pet peeves is seeing players before and after games hugging and laughing (especially if your team lost) , nice teams rarely win shit in football.
Always the "leader" business with these 80s and 90s players isn't it.
What "leaders" did Arsenal have out there.
It was just 2 poor teams, with one team making a horrible mistake.
What "leaders" did Arsenal have out there.
It was just 2 poor teams, with one team making a horrible mistake.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect Keane to slag Ole off on live TV, and I do think some of what he said makes sense... but I also disagree with a lot of his comments.
Taking City's team from 2017 to 2019 - did they really have many leaders, or were they just an excellently coached and well drilled team? To my eye, they just looked like a team that executed the tasks they were asked to do on a match by match basis. Regularly starting with players like Stones, Danilo, Delph, Gundogan, Sterling etc - these players aren't leaders as much as our players aren't leaders?
Even across world football, which teams in recent years have been packed full of leaders in the same way that our previous teams were? I can only think of Bayern and to some extent Real Madrid... but beyond that the best teams have largely been the teams that are best coached!
I don't think our players looked any less motivated than Arsenal players, we just looked like we didn't have the slightest clue how to break down a well organised team... a problem we've faced throughout Ole's whole tenure and I don't see how any amount of leadership changes that.
Taking City's team from 2017 to 2019 - did they really have many leaders, or were they just an excellently coached and well drilled team? To my eye, they just looked like a team that executed the tasks they were asked to do on a match by match basis. Regularly starting with players like Stones, Danilo, Delph, Gundogan, Sterling etc - these players aren't leaders as much as our players aren't leaders?
Even across world football, which teams in recent years have been packed full of leaders in the same way that our previous teams were? I can only think of Bayern and to some extent Real Madrid... but beyond that the best teams have largely been the teams that are best coached!
I don't think our players looked any less motivated than Arsenal players, we just looked like we didn't have the slightest clue how to break down a well organised team... a problem we've faced throughout Ole's whole tenure and I don't see how any amount of leadership changes that.
I swear I heard him say something like "Ole's a decent bloke but United can't keep playing like this or he's in trouble"?
I’m not convinced it did work. Leipzig had more territory/possession for most of the game and it was only when they started taking big risks that we got the 2nd, then the result flattered us.
I’ll take any 5-0 at the moment with this team, don’t get me wrong. But I’m not willing to accept something “worked” when the away side were the major aggressors at OT for most of the game
Toronto? Let’s disregard that straight away.
I’m not expert on AC Milan but when did Juve or Chelsea play a diamond? Chelsea have never played a diamond regularly to my knowledge?
In fact, thinking about it, Conte famously changed to a 5-3-2 and won the league at Chelsea after they got battered playing a different formation three games running at the start of the season.
They weren't major aggressors and neither were Arsenal. To be that you have to get lots of shots on target, you have to do more than win the passing.
Doesn’t fit my ignorance so let’s disregard it.
They were successful playing a diamond.“To your knowledge” seems fairly limited so that doesn’t hold much weight. Chelsea used it both under Mourinho and Ancelotti.
Educate yourself.
https://insidefutbol.com/2009/09/15/tactical-analysis-chelseas-diamond-formation/10179/
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2009/aug/19/deco-chelsea-diamond-formation
As @youngrell says, Madrid have also used it.
Doesn’t fit my ignorance so let’s disregard it.
“To your knowledge” seems fairly limited so that doesn’t hold much weight. Chelsea used it both under Mourinho and Ancelotti.
Educate yourself.
https://insidefutbol.com/2009/09/15/tactical-analysis-chelseas-diamond-formation/10179/
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2009/aug/19/deco-chelsea-diamond-formation
As @youngrell says, Madrid have also used it.
Yeah, Madrid used it too. I think it was Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Isco.
start of the season he said the honeymoon period is over
Keane being a massive prick here. Cahill brought up some good points Keane just didn't want to hear it.
He is being a prick but Arsenal are getting much more praise than that performance deserved. United were fecking dreadful but Arsenal still needed a gift from Pogba to win the game.
If anyone wants to watch a well organised, hard-working team tear United a new one at Old Trafford then yesterday’s game was the least impressive of the season so far. Brighton and Palace (who are very average teams) caused us much more problems than Arsenal did and Keane is spot on to try and intervene in all the smoke being blown up Arteta’s arse.