This is an angle most posters are overlooking . It's likely that Rooney will not have too much leeway with some of the inconsistent bits if play that are prevalent in his game moreso with someone like Mata around, in a possession centred style of play that LvG likes Rooney will not have a central role so a lot depends on how he takes especially if he is overlooked for the captaincy . LvG will be in his rights to name his preferred Captain but I hope he will settle for a compromise selection because if Rooney loses both the Captaincy and the central role it will be too much for him to take lying down .
Rooney vs. Van Gaal
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I dont know why they would have any problems.
The breakdown in relationship with Fergie was his insistence on benching Wayne so Welbeck could stink the place out.
I'd be pissed off as well.
The breakdown in relationship with Fergie was his insistence on benching Wayne so Welbeck could stink the place out.
I'd be pissed off as well.
That doesn't necessarily always work well. It was like that at Madrid with benzema and higuain where mourinho kept rotating them and when it came to the big matches both of them were poor as they didn't have the confidence knowing that if they missed a few chances they would be kept on the field. It is also frustrating for a striker to know that if even if he scores that he may not start the next match because the coach wants to rotate to keep both players happy and if van gaal decides to do the opposite of that and keep playing one of the strikers who is in better form then the player who is on the bench more will be frustrated. Big strikers like that will want to play every match and get as much goals as possible and after a while their confidence, motivation and form will suffer if they are not playing as much as they feel they should be. I think van gaal will have van persie as the main striker and will probably use rooney in a deeper role as he is too good a player to leave out of the team. As long as the team is winning and getting results I don't think rooney will complain.
My vote for option one is in hope rather than certainty.
This may well be the case, I just wonder what our team will look like if it does happen.
Will RvP or Mata be moved from their best positions to accommodate Rooney? I don't think doing so would be in the best interest of the team.
Will Rooney be moved into a different role? That would make sense if we didn't know Rooney has a problem with being played out of position.
We can't afford to leave him on the bench either as he's simply paid too much to not be in the first team. So how does LVG make it work?
There are a lot of games in a season. Enough for the three key attacking players - Mata, Rooney and Van Persie, to get sufficient games assuming we ship out a lot of the dross/unneeded players in attacking positions like Young, Nani and Hernandez. Having those players leave the club would free up a lot of play time for our "Big 3". Since we're out of Europe this is the year to dispose of our under performing squad players. If we don't, we risk pissing off our key players.
Van Gaal has shown plenty of flexibility in his managerial career. I think he will find a way to fit them all in the team.
Really??....
They are professionals employed to do a job and they will get it done.... Its no managers responsibility fall in love with a player but to get the best out of them and Rooney will put the shift in....
Don't know Rooney the person but from what I see on the pitch LvG will appreciate him and trust him just like our previous managers..
They are professionals employed to do a job and they will get it done.... Its no managers responsibility fall in love with a player but to get the best out of them and Rooney will put the shift in....
Don't know Rooney the person but from what I see on the pitch LvG will appreciate him and trust him just like our previous managers..
Rooney has been catered to his entire career, the reason people think there could potentially be problems is that LVG doesn't seem the type to put up with that.
Before RVP got injured, isn't this what Rooney was doing, though? He never played as the main forward, but more a second striker/attacking midfielder - similar to how he played last season under SAF.
I think they will have a rocky relationship. These quotes from Rooney particularly worry me:
I get the feeling that LVG won't stand for this kind of attitude, the bolded particularly. He seems like someone who wants everyone playing anywhere necessary for the team, rather than looking out for their own selfish interests.
Also it is well known that he admires RVP and fitting Mata, Rooney and RVP into a team will prove difficult. I can see LVG wanting Rooney to play from the left, Januzaj from the right and Mata through the middle, with RVP up top. Obviously this won't sit well with Rooney wanting to be selfish.
I get the feeling that LVG won't stand for this kind of attitude, the bolded particularly. He seems like someone who wants everyone playing anywhere necessary for the team, rather than looking out for their own selfish interests.
Also it is well known that he admires RVP and fitting Mata, Rooney and RVP into a team will prove difficult. I can see LVG wanting Rooney to play from the left, Januzaj from the right and Mata through the middle, with RVP up top. Obviously this won't sit well with Rooney wanting to be selfish.
I think Maria will find a way to make Rooney and RVP a devastating partnership
Actually Mou was not very happy with either. But your point is well made. But on going evidence, LVG will probably use RVP as his no.9. Everyone calls him a genius, let's see if he can devise a system which fits in Rooney and Mata as well. But, hey, at the end of the day, the manager calls the shots and rightfully so. If Rooney balks again, it would be very difficult for him to threaten the club again, given the length and value of his contract.
The thing, though, is that the team will benefit more from having Mata in that deeper role than it would from Rooney, creativity wise . A RvP-Mata > a RvP-Rooney combo imo and if Van Gaal sees it that way then issues will arise because I don't think that Rooney at, this stage in his career, is prepared or will be happy to be moved around positionally ! Having said that I, however, believe that a role on the left could be fashioned out for either him or Mata, to devastating effect in possession based, interlinking style of play like how Muller and Henry score/scored plenty from out wide .
RvP won't be around for that long, I believe. He's not the youngest and injury has dogged him long enough. Rooney I think will raise his game, as he always has done when he has a point to prove.
I think van Gaal will be able to handle the situation just fine. Rooney was our best player this past season and if he keeps his playing well, and shows the right attitude then we should be fine.
Everything depends on how Van Gaal wants to set us up. I cant see him playing 2 striker at all and a fit RVP is a nailed on starter so that leaves Rooney out of position. If he kicks up a fuss, expect him to be gone.
I have a hunch they're going to be a match made in heaven. Combative, feisty managers and combative, feisty players don't always clash - sometimes they gel, with spectacular results. See Costa and Simeone this season.
It was between option 1 and option 2, and judging from the self-entitled nature of Rooney, it seemed more likely that option 2 would occur... Tbh, even if option 1 occurs, it wouldn't be some great boon for us, he simply isn't as good as RVP as a 9, and isn't as good as Kagawa or Mata as a 10. His only place would be on the left, where he could do a more than decent job, but he would have to be advised in no uncertain terms that he has to play for the team and not himself.
"In soccer, everything depends on the team aspect. All players have to learn to put the team interests first. At Ajax, on the evening before an important European Cup game against Gent, I asked my striker John van Loen what he thought was the best system to play against this solid Belgian team. John replied:
“4-3-3, coach.” He knew very well that he would not be picked if we played this system, but at such an important moment, John put the interests of the team first. That gives a coach huge satisfaction."
“4-3-3, coach.” He knew very well that he would not be picked if we played this system, but at such an important moment, John put the interests of the team first. That gives a coach huge satisfaction."
Injured.
Please spoiler this sort of thing so it doesn't interrupt people reading the threads.
David Winner's take(author of Brilliant Orange) from an article by Ben Lyttleton.
"One of the hallmarks of van Gaal's career is that he is very good at persuading players to adapt to a role they might not have thought of playing," David Winner, author of Brilliant Orange: The Neurotic Genius of Dutch Football, told SI.com. "He is not quite as rigid with his 4-3-3 as everyone thinks he is. He likes his system, but he knows formations are fluid anyway and what also counts is attitude, energy and state of mind."
Winner interviewed Rooney in 2012 and was struck by the English forward's intelligence. Behind the lurid headlines and salary disputes, he found a thinker about the game, and someone whose appreciation of space and movement came from studying former Ajax (and Liverpool) forward Jari Litmanen. Rooney described himself as like a snooker player always thinking three or four shot (or passes) in advance. This will strike a chord with his new coach.
"What van Gaal likes best about players is their intelligence: Rooney and van Gaal are both highly intelligent, and so I don't think it will be too much of a problem," Winner said. "His teams are all about movement and space, and though they are very precise, at the same time there is an unpredictability and energy to it which tends to win matches."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/so...manchester-united-wayne-rooney/#ixzz32B15Wk73
"One of the hallmarks of van Gaal's career is that he is very good at persuading players to adapt to a role they might not have thought of playing," David Winner, author of Brilliant Orange: The Neurotic Genius of Dutch Football, told SI.com. "He is not quite as rigid with his 4-3-3 as everyone thinks he is. He likes his system, but he knows formations are fluid anyway and what also counts is attitude, energy and state of mind."
Winner interviewed Rooney in 2012 and was struck by the English forward's intelligence. Behind the lurid headlines and salary disputes, he found a thinker about the game, and someone whose appreciation of space and movement came from studying former Ajax (and Liverpool) forward Jari Litmanen. Rooney described himself as like a snooker player always thinking three or four shot (or passes) in advance. This will strike a chord with his new coach.
"What van Gaal likes best about players is their intelligence: Rooney and van Gaal are both highly intelligent, and so I don't think it will be too much of a problem," Winner said. "His teams are all about movement and space, and though they are very precise, at the same time there is an unpredictability and energy to it which tends to win matches."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/so...manchester-united-wayne-rooney/#ixzz32B15Wk73
Hopefully Rooney gets the same chances as Van Persie does. I don't want Van Persie to be an untouchable player, he has to earn his place like everyone else
Since when has Rooney not played for the team and played for himself?
He's played up top, behind the front man, on the left and even in central midfield at United so far. And most of it has been to his own detriment. Rooney will be fine, no doubt. In fact Van Gaal will probably love his attitude on the pitch which has never been in question.
That's exactly what I thought re: Van Gaal.
I think the only way Rooney won't get disillusioned is if the manager decides to play a 4-3-1-2 formation or a 4-1-2-1-2 diamond, where RVP and Rooney are up front and Mata is the 1 in behind. However this would limit the involvement of Januzaj, who I get the feeling Van Gaal will put great faith in.
I still maintain our best team is Rooney on the left, Mata through the middle, Januzaj on the right and RVP up front. The biggest problem is that next season due to no European Football we will play maybe 45 games in total, rather than 50-55+. This doesn't give too much room for rotation/rest compared with previous seasons (so it will be more difficult to keep everyone happy).
He's had a "divine right to start", has he?
Seems to me he was being picked on merit.
If we accept your premise that Fergie was about to ship him out, how many times did Fergie leave him on the bench during his final season in charge?
Was this because of Rooney's "divine right" or perhaps because Fergie saw him as part of our strongest XI?
The hardest thing for Rooney I think is going to be being second fiddle to RVP. He isn't going to like that one bit.
There will be no 'vs' between Van Gaal and Rooney because one of these two has balls to send biggest football stars to clean toilets if it's required for a discipline's sake. Louie used to let players vent their frustrations in the dressing room in Ajax which was helpful for the team's privacy. Kluivert had a bit similar mentality to Rooney's yet in the end, LVG led him to secure Champions League trophy for their club.
Van Gaal is from time to time more unpredictable than Fergie. You can see when Fergie is pissed off while Van Gaal's batshit crazy mode kicks in most spontaneous way.
If Rooney's smart he'll use Van Gaal's methods of training and return to absolute world class where he belongs, even finish as a long term captain but it will require effort like everything under this type of manager.
It's up to player if he wants to be a captain.
Van Gaal is from time to time more unpredictable than Fergie. You can see when Fergie is pissed off while Van Gaal's batshit crazy mode kicks in most spontaneous way.
If Rooney's smart he'll use Van Gaal's methods of training and return to absolute world class where he belongs, even finish as a long term captain but it will require effort like everything under this type of manager.
It's up to player if he wants to be a captain.
Sometimes it's just a bit too much. Rooney isn't always an arrogant bastard like how it is portrayed. It's not like he'll just pack up and leave just because there is a manager who has bigger balls than him. Everyone just forgot about how he simply let van Persie take penalties instead of him and he himself gave a very good justification. He sacrificed a lot during the ronaldo years under fergie. Everything boils down to money and success. If the club is successful with Rooney being clinical to the team, I don't think there would be any problem whatsoever. He has done a lot for the club and also signed a new contract. He won't go anywhere. Maybe the big man will work some magic and try and play both Rooney and RvP together and make it work. We can only hope for the best.
I might have phrased it wrong, he needs to perform the role well. When he plays up top, he roams and hardly provides a presence or target. The Everton away match is a perfect example of this. When he plays as a 10, his touch and passing is simply too inconsistent to be of any use to us, and that just leaves us with a role off the left. The one role he played where both he and us had a period of sustained success: during the period 2006-9.
That's what I like to read. Easily agree with Winner, Rooney is one smart footballer.
Which happened a single time IIRC. Trust me that he'll get benched more than one time during the new season, so he will either got to accept the manager decision or go at another club.
Saying that, it will be very interesting to see how will Rooney behave. If he goes to his best level (unlikely IMO cause he hasn't been that great for a couple of years now) then all good. If not, he'll be on a bad journey. He will also have to accept that RVP will be our main attacker.
Even back then he rarely played out wide. And it has been like 5 years since he has had a good performance out wide.
Where's the option for 'business as usual'?
You people are retards.
You people are retards.
Why do so many United fans want Rooney "brought down a peg or two"?
You just know some fans, some posting in this thread, have the knives out and are just hoping and praying Rooney and Van Gaal don't hit it off. It's fecking weird.
You just know some fans, some posting in this thread, have the knives out and are just hoping and praying Rooney and Van Gaal don't hit it off. It's fecking weird.
It could go either way this one, it will either end up with Rooney acting like a child however I think that it could be the making of him, Van Gaal could have him fulfilling his full potential on a consistent basis at last.
That is something his detractors often overlook. Off the pitch he does not seem like the brightest bulb but, on the pitch he shows great intelligence.
Van Gaal, despite his reputation is unlikely to pick a fight for no reason.
We need quality players and Rooney is that. He may need to fit into a system but he's done that before.
Rooney was given carte blanch to find his form (for whatever reason from injury to just bad periods of play) over loads of games an immeasurable amount of times during Fergie's rein until things went south during the last half of Fergie's final season.
He's always had special privileges because of his obvious talent when he's playing well. I doubt it'll be the same under LvG.
I simply forgot to add it as an option.
I don't see why insults such as the above are thrown out so assuredly.
It's not about LvG intending to pick a fight - I don't think he's ever been one to do that - rather it's about how he deals with an issue when it comes his way and the stance he'll take when or if his authority is challenged.
I also don't think Rooney's the type who goes storming into offices kicking up a fuss looking for a head-to-head all guns blazing row.
But if things are going sour, Rooney always makes sure he's heard and seen to be unhappy.
Fergie suggested in his book that Rooney struggled to implement new ideas and always felt safe going back to what he was comfortable with. I think he will have to adapt under van Gaal. It'll be interesting to see how it goes.