Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez

[stevoc]

I also think that Tevez was overrated. Didn’t he also sit on the bench quite often and was not playing that much?

I loved him his first season. But in his second season he looked heavier and while he still put a shift in he just wasn't as good or to me looked as interested. He spent most of that 2nd season moping and his output wasn't great.

Personally I suspect his move to City had been sorted out quite early in that season after the Arabs took over in September 2008. There seemed to be a lot of drama generated in the media about will/won't United sign him and why haven't they signed him yet, who knows who was driving that. When the truth is we could only sign him permanently once his 2 year loan had finished.

 

[Ekeke]

Tevez was better after he left. He was the least effective when the 3 played together, but would probably have found his feet like he did at City if we made the move permanent. Certainly a lot better than Berbatov who we replaced him with. I think Rossi, who moved on when we went for Tevez would have done better too.

 

[stevoc]

I loved Berbatov, but the most disappointing thing about his signing was how little we saw these three play together after he joined.

They started 1 game together in the Champions League. We best Arsenal 1-0 at home.

They started together once in the Club World Cup. That was the final against LDU Quito in which we won 1-0.

They didn't start any games together in the domestic cups.

In the league:
0-0 away to Villa
0-1 victory away to Stoke
1-4 lost at home to Liverpool
0-0 at home to Arsenal. The "Fergie sign him up" game.

So, all in all, they only started 6 games together. That's incredibly disappointing when you consider how good they were together in just the previous season.

My favourite game of that season was the 5-2 against Spurs where we played Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez and Berbatov all together in the 2nd half. They were electric together that half!

I was lucky enough to be sat in the scoreboard end for that match. It's the best half of football I think I've ever seen live or otherwise. We just steamrolled them, there was nothing they could do.

 

[Malkovich]

Tevez and Rooney is as close you are going to get in terms of 2 players excelling in same areas, having same body type and gritty style. I always find it unbalanced to have 2 “clones” as attacking partners

 

[stevoc]

The thing it's that he clearly wanted to be signed after his first season, we all know that if a Club really wants sthg. it's doable with any type of contract. After that season the situation got really grey and uncomfortable for him.
He played quite less quantity of minutes (and even less games) in the Premier League and the reading from his side was that they wanted to devalue his position in order to pay him less. Right or wrong, truth or not his reading, paranoid or not, that situation could have been managed better if Fergie (and the Club) really wanted him badly and give him full first team status inmediatly after his first season. He certainly felt himself in a worse situation when Fergie went after Berba.

The Tevez and Rooney partnership was sthg to not mess with it, it was the sort of understanding that rarely happens and more with two very similar players in style, atributes and attitude in the pitch. The scenario became worse when he ended adding the last ingredient for City to become a real threat, the whole situation of changing the type of approach of the team and the strength he gave to City, clearly changed the path of both clubs, it doesn't matter if Carlos ain't Maradona, it just happened and could have been avoided.

All things said, Carlos is Carlos and even if he was giving a proper first team contract after his first season, he more than probably at some point get bored and leave Man Utd all of a sudden, he is really hard to manage and more with Kia and co. behind him.
And like you've said, he would talk/complain to anyone, he won't even care if it's Fergie or whomever and that won't sit well with such a legendary coach. At the end of the day it's sad that all the parts couldn't manage the whole thing better.

United couldn't sign him in 2008. Gill and Ferguson confirmed this back then. The terms of his loan agreement were 2 years, which his owner received a massive fee for, at the end of which United had the option to buy him for £25m. We didn't have the option to trigger that after 1 year as Kia whatshisname would have lost out on a years loan fee amounting to 5-6 million.

 

[stevoc]

He played less games, but more than that, he played quiet less minutes and he read that stuff like a way to buy him with at a lower cost.

Anyway we can't fault Fergie if that was his idea because he didn't rate him that much, it's his prefference, but Carlos was Carlos since his debut, not a fella that won't talk, protest or do whatever he felt he wanted, wrong or right.

He made more appearances for United that season than everyone bar I think bar Vidic and Ronaldo.

 

[Fobal]

He made more appearances for United that season than everyone bar I think bar Vidic and Ronaldo.

I don't know in correlation with other players, but more than appearences, he played less minutes than his prior one, that's what I've meant and he took that right or wrong, badly.

 

[Fobal]

United couldn't sign him in 2008. Gill and Ferguson confirmed this back then. The terms of his loan agreement were 2 years, which his owner received a massive fee for, at the end of which United had the option to buy him for £25m. We didn't have the option to trigger that after 1 year as Kia whatshisname would have lost out on a years loan fee amounting to 5-6 million.

There were many issues there, many parts moving messing everything up, yet when there is a trully intention to do sthg. every part moves in that direction. Kia was quite a mercenary that Carlos gave too much power, but it never seemed that Fergie really wanted Tevez to stay there as much as some of his teammates. Sometimes things are not going to happen, but it's sad in plain football terms that things ended so badly.
Like it was said before, it's not common to have two players of the calibre of Wazza and Carlitos to gel so well and with the right big club and winning attitude. Shyte happens.

 

[Overhaul FC]

This was my favourite United front 3 that I have seen. It had everything. Power, pace, tenacity, goals, assists, amazing touches and ball retention. They would strangle the shit out of the opposition defence with no time to rest at all.

I don't think I'll see another 3 like Ronaldo, Tevez and Rooney again.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I liked how Tevez ran, like a rabid shetland pony

 

[Yagami]

I can't ever hate Tevez despite all the shit he did

I'm the same. I mean, I can totally understand those who have no time for him anymore, but he was one of my favourite players whilst here, and a key player in one of the best teams we've ever had. I have too many fond memories of him during his time here.

It also helps that I think he still speaks glowingly about us in general. He loved Rooney, and there was an interview he did where they talking about Pirlo and Tevez still said Scholes was the best midfielder he's played with.

I was lucky enough to be sat in the scoreboard end for that match. It's the best half of football I think I've ever seen live or otherwise. We just steamrolled them, there was nothing they could do.

I can't lie; I'm jealous! That game would probably be in my top 5 games I would've loved to have seen live.

 

[stevoc]

I don't know in correlation with other players, but more than appearences, he played less minutes than his prior one, that's what I've meant and he took that right or wrong, badly.

The minutes weren't that different between the seasons. He actually made more appearances in 08-09 that the season before though.

There were many issues there, many parts moving messing everything up, yet when there is a trully intention to do sthg. every part moves in that direction. Kia was quite a mercenary that Carlos gave too much power, but it never seemed that Fergie really wanted Tevez to stay there as much as some of his teammates. Sometimes things are not going to happen, but it's sad in plain football terms that things ended so badly.
Like it was said before, it's not common to have two players of the calibre of Wazza and Carlitos to gel so well and with the right big club and winning attitude. Shyte happens.

United signed him on a 2 year loan in 2007 with the option to sign him for £25m in 2009 when his loan ended. United offered up the £25m in 2009 as agreed but Carlos and his owner chose the money on offer form City instead. Not sure what else Unted could have done.

Tevez wasn't a world class player for United and I suspect he would have never reached the level he did at City playing 2nd fiddle to Rooney had he stayed at United. He wasn't the most professional off the pitch to say the least and by the summer of 2009 I think Fergie wanted him but wasn't fussed he left either as he was a bit of a drama queen.

 

[stevoc]

I'm the same. I mean, I can totally understand those who have no time for him anymore, but he was one of my favourite players whilst here, and a key player in one of the best teams we've ever had. I have too many fond memories of him during his time here.

It also helps that I think he still speaks glowingly about us in general. He loved Rooney, and there was an interview he did where they talking about Pirlo and Tevez still said Scholes was the best midfielder he's played with.


I can't lie; I'm jealous! That game would probably be in my top 5 games I would've loved to have seen live.

It was unreal. I went with a mate who hates Spurs he was gutted at half time and tried to leave. I wasn't having it and I'm glad I stayed.

We haven't had that type of attacking power since those days. That's the level I hope to see us back at someday.

 

[Fobal]

The minutes weren't that different between the seasons. He actually made more appearances in 08-09 that the season before though.



United signed him on a 2 year loan in 2007 with the option to sign him for £25m in 2009 when his loan ended. United offered up the £25m in 2009 as agreed but Carlos and his owner chose the money on offer form City instead. Not sure what else Unted could have done.

Tevez wasn't a world class player for United and I suspect he would have never reached the level he did at City playing 2nd fiddle to Rooney had he stayed at United. He wasn't the most professional off the pitch to say the least and by the summer of 2009 I think Fergie wanted him but wasn't fussed he left either as he was a bit of a drama queen.

There number of minutes were quite different, not massive, butt not a little difference.

Carlos asked to be signed after his first season and accelerate the process and Fergie told him what you are saying, to wait to the end of the loan while adding that he would go for Berbatov, not the ebst of moves, maybe another less high profile forward wouldn't be that much of a bad sign for Carlos.
Later Berbatov arrived and played more minutes than him (not a lot much, but more anyway), so he felt what I've said before, that they were putting lots of money (at the time) for a new high profile player instead of first assure him his first team status. And in the meantime, let's not be naif, try to keep the original ammount or even lower it if Carlos does not participate more like it should have been after what he did in his first season and without Cron in the team. To add things to the mix, Fergie neither gave full trsut to Berba in some ocassions, to turn things even greyer.

Like you've said Fergie didn't wanted him that badly, it's his prerrogative, even if wanting him, but do not act surpirse if thinsg end badly with a fella of the charcater of Carlos, he is not "yEs Boss" Neville type.
Fergie always tend to get things like he liked it and that situation infuriated him, more when Tevez ended in fecking City, that's why I always felt he didn't read well with whom he was dealing, for the good and bad, because like you've said, even buying him would not assure a smooth relationship, Carlos could have end badly in Man Utd too, but trsut me he really loved his Man Utd days even today, maybe that's why he took it so badly.

Yet all in all it was a turning point, for Man Utd and for City that if Fergie played his cards more wisely (and listened more to his lockeroom, specially Wazza), that if Carlos wasn't as stubborn as he is and didn't let Kia to be so important, things could have ended etter.
I trully think that without Cron in the team and with the relationship Rooney had with him, they would have done great, no matter if Wayne would have kept the number one spot. Tevez whole Robin approach, second fiddle was in order to gain that contract, the Carlos from Boca, Corinthians and post Man Utd teams, would have been there. I think that even this last aspect made it worse, that he let his big ego aside (maybe the only tiem in his whole carreer) for his first season with Man Utd and he never felt comfortable, nor THAT wanted, while not receiving the best signs in his second one. Shyte happens

 

[Glorio]

He made more appearances for United that season than everyone bar I think bar Vidic and Ronaldo.

"Appearances" can be misleading though. Amad has had loads of appearances since his return from injury for instance. I think his starts in important games took a drastic nosedive. Might be wrong, but it's the feeling I get

 

[stevoc]

"Appearances" can be misleading though. Amad has had loads of appearances since his return from injury for instance. I think his starts in important games took a drastic nosedive. Might be wrong, but it's the feeling I get

Not really though in this case though. He played 51 times that season. I can't remember the exact number but he made 36-38 starts. When you're competing with Rooney, Ronaldo, Berbativ and Nani that's pretty good. I think he started the same or more games that Berbatov.

 

[stevoc]

There number of minutes were quite different, not massive, butt not a little difference.

Carlos asked to be signed after his first season and accelerate the process and Fergie told him what you are saying, to wait to the end of the loan while adding that he would go for Berbatov, not the ebst of moves, maybe another less high profile forward wouldn't be that much of a bad sign for Carlos.
Later Berbatov arrived and played more minutes than him (not a lot much, but more anyway), so he felt what I've said before, that they were putting lots of money (at the time) for a new high profile player instead of first assure him his first team status. And in the meantime, let's not be naif, try to keep the original ammount or even lower it if Carlos does not participate more like it should have been after what he did in his first season and without Cron in the team. To add things to the mix, Fergie neither gave full trsut to Berba in some ocassions, to turn things even greyer.

Which wasn't possible within the contract United signed. If United tried to re-negotiate the contract Kia likely would have asked for more than the already agreed £25m. Why would United want to do that, it'd have been a stupid business move.

Like you've said Fergie didn't wanted him that badly, it's his prerrogative, even if wanting him, but do not act surpirse if thinsg end badly with a fella of the charcater of Carlos, he is not "yEs Boss" Neville type.

Fergie always tend to get things like he liked it and that situation infuriated him, more when Tevez ended in fecking City, that's why I always felt he didn't read well with whom he was dealing, for the good and bad, because like you've said, even buying him would not assure a smooth relationship, Carlos could have end badly in Man Utd too, but trsut me he really loved his Man Utd days even today, maybe that's why he took it so badly.

Yeah he's a Twat.

Yet all in all it was a turning point, for Man Utd and for City that if Fergie played his cards more wisely (and listened more to his lockeroom, specially Wazza), that if Carlos wasn't as stubborn as he is and didn't let Kia to be so important, things could have ended etter.
I trully think that without Cron in the team and with the relationship Rooney had with him, they would have done great, no matter if Wayne would have kept the number one spot. Tevez whole Robin approach, second fiddle was in order to gain that contract, the Carlos from Boca, Corinthians and post Man Utd teams, would have been there. I think that even this last aspect made it worse, that he let his big ego aside (maybe the only tiem in his whole carreer) for his first season with Man Utd and he never felt comfortable, nor THAT wanted, while not receiving the best signs in his second one. Shyte happens

I think he was alright in the end not listening to Rooney. He didn't do too badly towards the end of his career.

 

[Fobal]

Not really though in this case though. He played 51 times that season. I can't remember the exact number but he made 36-38 starts. When you're competing with Rooney, Ronaldo, Berbativ and Nani that's pretty good. I think he started the same or more games that Berbatov.

Just to use transfermarket, that BTW isn't precisly the bible:

Tevez in EPL 07/08: 2684 min.
Tevez in EPL 08/09: 1861 min.

Berbatov in EPL 08/09: 2543 min.

And this is not taking in account at what moment he entered the pitch, from the start, or later, in what games, with whom around or when he was replaced and all the nuances that sends messages to any player of his consideration from the manager.

The thing is simple, Carlos for ONCE played the good obedient guy his first season, the Robin Warrior fella, knowing his place.
After it, when he asked to accelerate things to be bought, loan or not loan, he was told to wait and in the meantime United bought for a very high fee in those days Berba and gave the new fella, while he still was on LOAN, more minutes than him. Carlos probably wouldn't have much of an issue if they've signed him and afterwards signed Berba (even if he more than probaly would read it as a sign too of his status with Alex), but keeping him on loan at the same time? come on, Carlos it's not Angel Correa, it's not Ole, that was a recipe for a bad ending right there.

This wouldn't sit well with anyone, but wayyyyyyyyyy less with Carlos that almost forced West Ham to play him, that gain a place in Boca at 18, that played against his very own teammates and the whole League in Corinthians, literally fighting on every match and training...that's not a card you play with this calibre of player and type of personality without understanding that your play, might end badly no matter if you are fecking Sir Alex.
There is no problem if Sir Alex didn't think that much of him as a player, but he can't be surprise at how things ended.

Carlos it's not a saint, Carlos would more than probaly got bored and left United badly if he stayed, he could have even end fighting with Fergie at some point like he did with almost EVERY coach he had, but United at that moment changed the philosophy behind the type of players they went after and because of Carlos ego and not give a fvck about anything, reinforcing City giving the last ingredient to finally become a real competitor.

 

[Fobal]

Which wasn't possible within the contract United signed. If United tried to re-negotiate the contract Kia likely would have asked for more than the already agreed £25m. Why would United want to do that, it'd have been a stupid business move.



Yeah he's a Twat.



I think he was alright in the end not listening to Rooney. He didn't do too badly towards the end of his career.

Exactly, he tried to buy him on the low and wait till the last minute of the loan while giving every wrong message with new signings

If you think that Carlos wasn't worthy more than 25 Millions, it's your view, but he certainly was, twat or not twat.

 

[stevoc]

Just to use transfermarket, that BTW isn't precisly the bible:

Tevez in EPL 07/08: 2684 min.
Tevez in EPL 08/09: 1861 min.

Berbatov in EPL 08/09: 2543 min.

And this is not taking in account at what moment he entered the pitch, from the start, or later, in what games, with whom around or when he was replaced and all the nuances that sends messages to any player of his consideration from the manager.

People get too hung up on minutes played. Playing 70 moniutes vs Liverpool is a better indicator of your manager having faith in you than 90 minutes vs Hartlepool in the League cup.

The thing is simple, Carlos for ONCE played the good obedient guy his first season, the Robin Warrior fella, knowing his place.
After it, when he asked to accelerate things to be bought, loan or not loan, he was told to wait and in the meantime United bought for a very high fee in those days Berba and gave the new fella, while he still was on LOAN, more minutes than him. Carlos probably wouldn't have much of an issue if they've signed him and afterwards signed Berba (even if he more than probaly would read it as a sign too of his status with Alex), but keeping him on loan at the same time? come on, Carlos it's not Angel Correa, it's not Ole, that was a recipe for a bad ending right there.

This wouldn't sit well with anyone, but wayyyyyyyyyy less with Carlos that almost forced West Ham to play him, that gain a place in Boca at 18, that played against his very own teammates and the whole League in Corinthians, literally fighting on every match and training...that's not a card you play with this calibre of player and type of personality without understanding that your play, might end badly no matter if you are fecking Sir Alex.
There is no problem if Sir Alex didn't think that much of him as a player, but he can't be surprise at how things ended.

Carlos it's not a saint, Carlos would more than probaly got bored and left United badly if he stayed, he could have even end fighting with Fergie at some point like he did with almost EVERY coach he had, but United at that moment changed the philosophy behind the type of players they went after and because of Carlos ego and not give a fvck about anything, reinforcing City giving the last ingredient to finally become a real competitor.

Tevez could ask for whatever he likes but the fact is it wasn't an option to make the deal permanent in 2008. End of story really.

Personal opinion not based on any facts but I think Kia and Abu Dhabi were angling to move Carlos to City in early 2008 which explains Kia's involvement in their takeover of City, seems strange they'd pick him out of all the football agents in the world. They wanted a statement signing and they new they couldn't sign any United players but knew United didn'town Tevez.

 

[stevoc]

Exactly, he tried to buy him on the low and wait till the last minute of the loan while giving every wrong message with new signings

No the club tried to buy him at the agreed price per the terms of a contract that both parties signed.

If you think that Carlos wasn't worthy more than 25 Millions, it's your view, but he certainly was, twat or not twat.

Not in 2008 he wasn't and certainly not in 2009 after the average season he had. I'll remind you that circa 2008 the world record fee for a player was £49m, the British record was £30m. Tevez wasn't worth anywhere near the £47m City paid for him, he was a terrible investment as they ended up selling him for a quarter of that only a few years later due to his antics and unprofessionalism, he went awol for nearly a year at one point. I'm delighted United never signed him permanently, we dodged a bullet.

 

[Fobal]

People get too hung up on minutes played. Playing 70 moniutes vs Liverpool is a better indicator of your manager having faith in you than 90 minutes vs Hartlepool in the League cup.



Tevez could ask for whatever he likes but the fact is it wasn't an option to make the deal permanent in 2008. End of story really.

Personal opinion not based on any facts but I think Kia and Abu Dhabi were angling to move Carlos to City in early 2008 which explains Kia's involvement in their takeover of City, seems strange they'd pick him out of all the football agents in the world. They wanted a statement signing and they new they couldn't sign any United players but knew United didn'town Tevez.

It's not about people, it's about him talking about how much bothered him. It was a significant ammount of minutes less with him still on loan and a new kid on the block bought with a record transfer.

End of story? contracts are rearranged constantly, Fergie bet to buy him on the low and try Berba as main guy and keep Carlos as backup, could have worked? maybe with other type of personalities, not with Carlos, anyone could see that.

No the club tried to buy him at the agreed price per the terms of a contract that both parties signed.

Not in 2008 he wasn't and certainly not in 2009 after the average season he had. I'll remind you that circa 2008 the world record fee for a player was £49m, the British record was £30m. Tevez wasn't worth anywhere near the £47m City paid for him, he was a terrible investment as they ended up selling him for a quarter of that only a few years later due to his antics and unprofessionalism, he went awol for nearly a year at one point. I'm delighted United never signed him permanently, we dodged a bullet.

There was a whole season with less minutes, a new player in the team with a record transfer, that scenario obviously would affect everything.

Plus his second season was far from abysmal given the scenario, neither Berba was ubber outstanding, so for a player like Carlos to at the end of the year sit like nothing happened, it was clearly a bad reading, or expecting those fellas like Kia to not try to make a move, even more naif.

More than probably Man Utd wouldn't had to pay 47 millions if things were sealed after the first season, loan or not loan, Carlos really wanted to stay, even today after all that happened, he talks only great things about Man Utd even being a City great and right or wrong he simply stated that he was really pissed off with Fergie.
City had lots of bucks, Kia knew that, and they paid that sum more than probably to totally avoid loosing him like they lost Berba to Man Utd.

Even with his problems with Mancini, included the silly Bayern stuff that everyone wrongly bought and now we all know it wasn't as portraited by the media and Mancini himself. Him in a very Carlos style didn't even try to clarify or seek support from his teammates or witnesses.
At the end of the day Tevez put that team on the map, or better said, he was one of main and vital ingredients to do it, so nowadays it's hard to see it as a bad investment for them at all. While there is a reason that even today many Man Utd fans have nostalgia about how that team played, mostly because it was an special combination in terms of personalities and type of players involved that connects better with Man Utd as club and what expects from its players in the pitch.

It's true that we never know with Carlos, but he certainly after that first season was on Juve mode, more than Boca, Timao or City where for different reasons he was way more problematic outside of the pitch.