That is it. They are part of the problem.
Rooney and Carrick leading crisis talks...
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That is it. They are part of the problem.
If Carrick leads a crisis talk I'd expect it to be about having a crisis not resolving one.
Carrick is just a tier below Pirlo. If he scored more and was better physically he would be right there.
Criminally underrated in his own country. Like Scholes he will likely get more and more plaudits as time goes on and rightfully so.
Quite a big tier lower for me.
Carrick has been excellent for us. He's just not a top top player like Scholes, Pirlo, Schweinsteiger, Xavi etc.
I agree Carrick's always been underrated, but you're massively overrating him here. A tier below Pirlo would still be an Alonso, Schweinstiger, or Busquets who were/are arguably world-class at their peak. Carrick is not that level.
Carrick's quality but there was a long period where we were begging for someone better to play next to him. I feel it's only because of our many other problems that he's shone through and everyone think he's up there with Scholes et al.
Persoanally, I'm more than happy to have him still involved in the squad but we should be moving forward, which in itself is something we're struggling with in more ways than one.
Unless we are looking a two different stories(I'm using the article in the Mail)it a positive story well ok semi positive.....well not really semi positive, more of a John Mcclane Christmas Eve positivity.
Here some of it(Assuming the story is true in the first place although the small detail it's goes into makes me doubt it).
It's hardly a ''comedy club which stinks of decay and where false idols and kings rule the roost'' all that happen was the players and the manager had a bit of a talk. We haven't even hit flying boots to players heads stage yet.
Their sports section is kinda ok.........
In a normal situation where it's purely a tactics issue ora dialogue issue.. yes of course that is positive news.
However these talks will not change team selection and the hierarchy in the dressing room will remain the same. . This means we are still headed for disaster as the key issues are still not being frankly addressed. We need the coaching staff to get LVG to see the key issues and address them .. discussion with the senior players, most of whom have no right to be playing at United is not going to change things for the better.
It's like Roy Hodgson building his world cup side on the duo of Gerrard and Rooney.. both of whom were not worthy of a place in the starting lineup. You do not give leadership roles to those who can't carry out their own roles with distinction. . It is just disastrous and can have severely damaging consequences.
Fergie was a master of ditching great leaders who were past their peak.. but then again he was aided by the fact that alot of our great leaders knew when to quit.. they had great pride and put the teams interest first. See Cantona or Schmeichel. They didn't wait to be pushed and hang around like bad smells. . Forcing SAF to sell them.
If that's true I wouldn't blame Van Gaal for struggling to keep a straight face.
Rooney bitching at him would be like an emotional teenager yelling at a war veteran.
Rooney bitching at him would be like an emotional teenager yelling at a war veteran.
This shouldn't even need explaining.
What a bizarre rant in the OP.
"Players communicate their issues to the manager via the club captain and vice captain".
I actually believe that if we'd continued with the boring football that Van Gaal was getting hammered in the press for we'd probably still be out of the Champions League but in a much better league position and no-one would be talking about him imminently getting the sack.
He should have stuck to what he was working towards rather than letting the Scholes of the world get inside his head, then we should have re-evaluated at the end of the season after achieving top 4.
As it stands now we're going to go through a lot of turmoil and probably miss out on top 4 anyway.
If the players know better than the manager, the latter has to go, surely? And he should take with him Rooney and Carrick. They were fantastic players for United, now they are well past it and a substantial part of our problems. Especially the captain who is guaranteed to start no matter how shit he is, not to mention that because of him better players sit on the bench (Herrera) or get shifted left, right and center (Martial and Mata).
What if the captain is one of the key reasons why we are in crisis and that isn't being raised or addressed by the manager. Instead the captain is raising concerns about training/tactics.. deflecting attention away from his own form. Do you not see that as an issue that the manager is failing to address this?
It's like Casillas calling the shots at Real when he was way past his best.
Then you are arguing about the choice of Captain - and the only person who can change that in LVG himself. This is a no win situation for him - if he sacks Rooney as captain, the papers will be all over him with statements like "his ego couldn't take the frank talks from Rooney", but yet, if Rooney does speak to him in his role as captain - these are "crisis" talks over changing his methods.
Any changes can now happen only over the summer - unless Woodwood is willing to back LVG whole heartedly in selling Rooney in January (which - given current circumstances - has a 0.1% chance of happening).
If the players are collectively unhappy with certain things this needed to be voiced to the manager and the only logical way of doing that is via the captain.
You seem to be assuming that Rooney has just decided all by himself to try and deflect attention from this own form.
Nobody is saying he is calling the shots. You're taking a rumour from the Daily Mail and twisting it into some bizarre attack at Rooney.
There's plenty of valid reasons to be annoyed with Rooney, I don't think we need to be inventing nonsensical ones on top.
I agree.
We would still have been winning 1-0 and that would have just been a reflection on our inability to create chances.
This all stems from Van Gaal. Rooney is held up on a pedestal - by Van Gaal himself.
At the end of the day though, unhappy players will eventually lead things down this route. Senior players will be nominated to do the talking. That's just how it is.
What is that based on exactly?
We had a spell where our awful football was getting results - largely because we could score a couple of goals from very few chances. That was never going to last and our luck duly ran out.
Once those performances stopped getting results he had no option but to try and be more creative.
The only game in the CL he let the handbrake off was Wolfsburg away - and he only did that because we had to win the game - largely because we'd been so negative in previous games. It was a problem of his own making.
The "boring" style will not bring long term results. You're not going to win many games having no shots on goal. That's obvious to anyone.
Who should have lead this then?
Let's look at our options:
(1) Jones - Shut up you stupid cnut, get fit first
(2) Darmian - You started well enough but are shit now. Sort yourself out
(3) Valencia - Will you be able to get past Albert whatever before reaching VG?
(4) Young - LOL!
(5) Blind - LVG stooge.
(6) Rojo - LOL!
(7) Shaw - Out for the season.
(8) McNair - What does he know about football?
(9) Schneiderlin - You came here from Southampton. Shut up!
(10) Schweinstegier - You aren't the guy from Bayern. That guy can talk to VG. Can we have that guy?
(11) Depay - Let's talk about your car seat cover choices first.
(12) Martial - Does VG understand French?
(13) Lingard - Be grateful you get on the pitch.
(14) Herrera - Probably?
(15) Mata - Can you straight talk? It's all been slow and backwards so far.
So, who really should have lead this; i.e. if someone really had these "crisis" talks?
Seems like folks are getting agitated for the sake of getting agitated.
Let's look at our options:
(1) Jones - Shut up you stupid cnut, get fit first
(2) Darmian - You started well enough but are shit now. Sort yourself out
(3) Valencia - Will you be able to get past Albert whatever before reaching VG?
(4) Young - LOL!
(5) Blind - LVG stooge.
(6) Rojo - LOL!
(7) Shaw - Out for the season.
(8) McNair - What does he know about football?
(9) Schneiderlin - You came here from Southampton. Shut up!
(10) Schweinstegier - You aren't the guy from Bayern. That guy can talk to VG. Can we have that guy?
(11) Depay - Let's talk about your car seat cover choices first.
(12) Martial - Does VG understand French?
(13) Lingard - Be grateful you get on the pitch.
(14) Herrera - Probably?
(15) Mata - Can you straight talk? It's all been slow and backwards so far.
So, who really should have lead this; i.e. if someone really had these "crisis" talks?
Seems like folks are getting agitated for the sake of getting agitated.
Don't really see the problem? He's the captain, it's only natural that he should be the one to instigate such talks, regardless of how poor he's playing. Same goes for Carrick who's a senior player in the team.
This whole Rooney agenda is so simplistic. Yes, he's playing dreadfully but the focus on him is clouding the fact that our problems lie much deeper. Some people would have you believe that benching Rooney would solve everything.
This whole Rooney agenda is so simplistic. Yes, he's playing dreadfully but the focus on him is clouding the fact that our problems lie much deeper. Some people would have you believe that benching Rooney would solve everything.
What the feck is wrong with you?
Nothing.All I want to know is why is it a problem if those two went and had this "crisis" meeting. It's obvious the Captian or his deputy or both will have a talk if the tactics aren't working. Who else should did we expect to "lead" this? All I meant by that post is, you can find fault with anyone leading these crisis talks.
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People seem to have confused players' on-field quality with their squad status and influence in the dressing room.
Rooney and Carrick are, quite rightly, two of our most respected players. They've both been at the club for a long time (our two longest serving players?) and have experienced enough change over the last 3 years to be in a position to speak for the rest of the playing staff.
Some of the Caf need to take a break from this forum and engage with the real world a bit. Stop believing every inch of the sensationalist media nonsense and give our senior players, our captain and vice-captain, a little bit of credit to be able to talk to LVG in a reasoned and professional manner. They are absolutely the correct individuals to be raising any issues amongst the players to LVG (and, you'd hope, the rest of the coaching team) - who else would do it?
Rooney and Carrick are, quite rightly, two of our most respected players. They've both been at the club for a long time (our two longest serving players?) and have experienced enough change over the last 3 years to be in a position to speak for the rest of the playing staff.
Some of the Caf need to take a break from this forum and engage with the real world a bit. Stop believing every inch of the sensationalist media nonsense and give our senior players, our captain and vice-captain, a little bit of credit to be able to talk to LVG in a reasoned and professional manner. They are absolutely the correct individuals to be raising any issues amongst the players to LVG (and, you'd hope, the rest of the coaching team) - who else would do it?
Is this where the customary LvG falling-out-with-everyone really kicks off? So far he's always talked about how he has the trust of his players, good chemistry, etc.
In a less snarky way, there is a real lack of leadership in this squad. A few years ago we had Ferdinand and Vidić as leaders, as well as experienced, cool heads such as van der Sar and Giggs, as well as players who would run through brick walls for the club like Evra, Fletcher and Rooney. Toss the captain's armband in the air at random and it was more likely than not to land on a decent skipper.
There are no such people, this is a myth.
Benching Rooney would not solve many problems simply because we don't have enough quality options up front. And we do not have enough quality up front because LVG decided that Rooney could be the main man in our attack. Had we world class players alongside Martial, we would have been much more successful this season, probably still in the CL and top 2 in the league. LVG's tactics worked well with the Netherlands because they had in attack at least 1 world class player (Robben) and 1 still quite good striker (RvP, atleast in Brazil). I'm not a fan of LVG's boring tactics but it would have been much more successfull if we had better players up front. And the biggest reason why we lack enough quality there is that we did not strengthen enough because of Rooney.
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There has been a big turnover of players. It was bound to be someone who has been at the club for a long time and is comfortable talking about how the club works. A lot of the other players are either too young or haven't been there long enough.
Daily Mail is the World's 2nd worst source, after the Express.
Literally why.
Thank You. You have a much wiser and saner of saying it.
He is the player most hard done by Van Gaal (Of the ones who were kept and not called Valdes). There was no reason for him to find himself on the bench at the start of the season when he was one of our best players in the second half of the campaign last season. So, I am guessing that people would be more accepting of him going to the manager and asking him what the feck was going on. All pure conjecture, of course.
It's pathetic.
Captain and vice captain in holding talks with manager shocker.
feck. Rooney and Carrick leading anything is shite. Refloat the Titanic and let them have a go on that.
Just hope we batter Watford. Then LvG out stops for a day or two. If we beat Chelsea, all is rosey.
BFS is back soon, right?
Just hope we batter Watford. Then LvG out stops for a day or two. If we beat Chelsea, all is rosey.
BFS is back soon, right?
I think you mean Stoke and I doubt we will batter them.
Except that literally no-one holds this view that it's all Rooney's fault. Pathetic exaggeration there.
Yep Stoke. And yep, I fear the worst.
Regardless of how well Rooney/Carrick are performing, they are the two most senior players at the club. LvG clearly doesn't want to give up but he realises something needs to change. Consulting with them is the natural thing to do. The article also says Smalling/Mata have been involved too.
This board has been full of people saying our tactics are shit and LvG has to go for weeks.
When the captain and vice captain hold talks with LvG, apparently to put this view across to him, the same people be like 'They've got some cheek!'.
It's not like Rooney and Carrick have 10 Premiership titles between them or anything, and know a thing or two about how to win football matches in this league.
Their opinion is valuable I guess even if they have been poor so far. In this sense, I tend to agree. But my point was completely different. No-one thinks that it's all Rooney's fault. Literally no-one.
LVG has been here for 18 months. If he still needs to be advised how to win games in the PL (or Europe) he should resign with immediate effect.
To be honest he's definitely been the biggest problem of our attack this season and has held us back, you cannot have fluid attack with current Rooney in it.
Van Gaal is so screwed now regarding Rooney, if he drops him now players could think it's because he dared to speak up for them whilst keeping Rooney in the team will keep on hurting our forward play. He should have acted on Rooney a long time ago.
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