Ronaldo vs Ronaldo

UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Maradona had an exceptional work ethic. The fella lived for football. He’s always spoken About as a phenomenal trainer. He served as an example for players around him.

It feels as though you’ve watched one documentary that spoke of Diego’s drug abuse or party lifestyle and applied those across his whole career.

I’m sure he indulged in some marching powder and partying across the best years of his career. But he was a committed professional. Not a drunken, drug addled mess that shone little and often. He was a dominant force on a football pitch for over a decade.

He dominated against the best teams and defences at a truly unfashionable club. He did that in an era where people would watch football for enjoyment. Not one where people hate-watch Messi to post about Ronaldo when the final whistle blows if he missed a sitter.

Rivalries were more intense, but more respectful in the late 80’s and 90’s. There was a totality of support for your team. That’s not a Rose-tinted view. Supporters nowadays want to boil down every discussion to a binary. To do that they’ll reduce it to numbers on a page. It’s so silly.

If you’re a football fan, there are worse things you could do than to just let yourself drown in old Maradona footage. Some stories from his ex team mates. There’s so much out there. I don’t believe anyone that’s done that, ever arrives at the end of the deep dive, shrugs and goes “He didn’t have it, he’s not up there”.
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The troubling thing about this post, is your tone makes out you feel you know a lot about Maradona than the average Joe but the above isn't accurate at all. Even if I had only ever watched one Diego documentary, I'd still know he was not always a committed professional by any stretch of the imagination - in fact I'd argue his best period were at times he was known to be abusing drugs, drinking, staying out late and generally being the flawed genius everyone now revers. That is the magic and the pain of the whole Maradona story.

Your post is actually the perfect miniature metaphor for why CR7 gets treated unfairly. Maradona, as you should know, was known to be taking drugs recreationally from about '82 with Barca onwards - it's also heavily documented that his use of cocaine only intensified in Naples and his lifestyle worsened. Explain to me how he was a committed professional again? In his own words:

‘I gave my opponents a big advantage due to my illness. Do you know the player I could have been if I hadn’t taken drugs?’

So what you are saying, and this is true to the R9 debate to a lesser extent re lifestyle, is that Maradona, when he felt like it and when he was relatively clean, was actually a really committed trainer and lived for football. When in reality the facts we have right in front of us and that are non contested by the player himself are that he was committed sometimes. CR7 genuinely lives for football every minute of every day but Maradona categorically didn't.

If this were a thread on who could have been the greatest player of all time with the right work ethic and discipline, Maradona would probably be my No1 choice. However, despite how impressive his stats, story, abilities etc are when you factor in he was usually playing the day after a bender or, at the very least, not 100% clean you cannot change the fact he is nowhere near Messi or CR7 (in my opinion).
 
tomaldinho1 said:
The troubling thing about this post, is your tone makes out you feel you know a lot about Maradona than the average Joe but the above isn't accurate at all. Even if I had only ever watched one Diego documentary, I'd still know he was not always a committed professional by any stretch of the imagination - in fact I'd argue his best period were at times he was known to be abusing drugs, drinking, staying out late and generally being the flawed genius everyone now revers. That is the magic and the pain of the whole Maradona story.

Your post is actually the perfect miniature metaphor for why CR7 gets treated unfairly. Maradona, as you should know, was known to be taking drugs recreationally from about '82 with Barca onwards - it's also heavily documented that his use of cocaine only intensified in Naples and his lifestyle worsened. Explain to me how he was a committed professional again? In his own words:

‘I gave my opponents a big advantage due to my illness. Do you know the player I could have been if I hadn’t taken drugs?’

So what you are saying, and this is true to the R9 debate to a lesser extent re lifestyle, is that Maradona, when he felt like it and when he was relatively clean, was actually a really committed trainer and lived for football. When in reality the facts we have right in front of us and that are non contested by the player himself are that he was committed sometimes. CR7 genuinely lives for football every minute of every day but Maradona categorically didn't.

If this were a thread on who could have been the greatest player of all time with the right work ethic and discipline, Maradona would probably be my No1 choice. However, despite how impressive his stats, story, abilities etc are when you factor in he was usually playing the day after a bender or, at the very least, not 100% clean you cannot change the fact he is nowhere near Messi or CR7 (in my opinion).
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You said you’d only seen glimpses of Maradona. I said you should go and do a deep dive to give yourself more information.

Instead, you try to tell me I’ve got no concept of how committed he was as a footballer, Wanging on about ‘R9’ and ‘CR7’.

It’s child like.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
You said you’d only seen glimpses of Maradona. I said you should go and do a deep dive to give yourself more information.

Instead, you try to tell me I’ve got no concept of how committed he was as a footballer, Wanging on about ‘R9’ and ‘CR7’.

It’s child like.
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I'm assuming every single person on this forum has seen very little of Maradona in the flesh - if that's not the case you are a lucky man or woman.

You brought up commitment and now criticise me for responding to it....makes complete sense. We're in a R9 vs CR7 thread mate, surely you understand why they keep popping up.

A real shame you've had to resort to insults again though, if you want to talk this through I'm all open for debate but that's twice in three posts.
 
RUCK4444 said:
What your describing though with each of those points is Cristiano's superior finishing ability. Which I've acknowledged in my comparison (and granted it's a major point in this comparison.)

Aside from finishing alone, I just feel that R9 edges it with overall ability as a 'complete forward'. I'm talking about pace, strength, power, incredible dribbling and balance, more direct. A player that could at his best run through midfield opposition and defence by himself, no linkup required. Pure ability and power.

Again, if you solely compare them on finishing over the course of their careers, which fair enough some might consider that the overriding factor, then Ronnie wins. I'm just trying to imagine both at their absolute pinnacle on the pitch and aside from finishing I think R9 makes a very strong argument.
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Crossing? Work rate? Passing ? CR7 is better in all those areas aswell

Plus in terms of pace,strength, power CR7 is not even behind R9 if anything physically CR7 is an elite athlete that equals anyone as the tests they did on him shows (he jumps the height of basketball players ). Even dribbling at absolute peak there is not a million miles between them.
 
kidbob said:
Cristiano is the better player and its not really that close. He beats him in peak vs peak and shits on him in career terms.

Its not hard to understand that when you forget nostalgia Messi and Ronaldo are the two best players of all time.
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Only kids say that.
Messi and CR7 combined have ZERO World Cups. Best ever, yea, good joke bud.
 
TsuWave said:
How is this even a conversation? Cristiano is is just better. Better peak, better career, better everything and no amounts of “most naturally gifted” nonsense is going to change that.
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No he isn't. Unless you are at least 35, you can't possibly understand.
 
R9, a true phenomenon, played on better teams than R7, the better player.

But Messi, who has more or less been on a one-man (ok, two if you count Aguero and why shouldn't we?) national team, has no World Cup trophies yet really is the GOAT.
 
I think both Ronaldo's are at about the same level ability-wise. I mean how much more talented could you possible be than either? Having said that, Cristiano had much better luck with injuries, and also was far more consistent with his discipline and thus has the vastly superior career. R9 won a World Cup, and was incredible in the tournament, but also I think he only had about 4-5 seasons where he was consistently great (One with Barca, one with Inter and about two or three with Madrid) whereas Cristiano really might have double that or more. Oddly, R9 never won a Champions League despite playing on sides that have close to 30 combined. I think he only ever won one league title in Europe too.

I would say that both are among the top five players post-Maradona. Probably top three along with that little Argentine fella on Barca.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
I think both Ronaldo's are at about the same level ability-wise. I mean how much more talented could you possible be than either? Having said that, Cristiano had much better luck with injuries, and also was far more consistent with his discipline and thus has the vastly superior career. R9 won a World Cup, and was incredible in the tournament, but also I think he only had about 4-5 seasons where he was consistently great (One with Barca, one with Inter and about two or three with Madrid) whereas Cristiano really might have double that or more. Oddly, R9 never won a Champions League despite playing on sides that have close to 30 combined. I think he only ever won one league title in Europe too.

I would say that both are among the top five players post-Maradona. Probably top three along with that little Argentine fella on Barca.
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Interesting to consider who would make this list. I’d go with Messi, the two Ronaldos, Zidane and Romario. Could also make arguments for Ronaldinho and Roberto Baggio. Probably some people I’m forgetting.....
 
NasirTimothy said:
Interesting to consider who would make this list. I’d go with Messi, the two Ronaldos, Zidane and Romario. Could also make arguments for Ronaldinho and Roberto Baggio. Probably some people I’m forgetting.....
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I'd agree with Messi, both Ronaldo's, and Zidane. 5th spot is tough. Can't go wrong with any of those three. I also think Figo or Laudrup could be in the discussion too. I think people tend to look at Figo's goal tally's and compare (unfavorably to Ronaldo) but he was an absolute wizard.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
I'd agree with Messi, both Ronaldo's, and Zidane. 5th spot is tough. Can't go wrong with any of those three. I also think Figo or Laudrup could be in the discussion too. I think people tend to look at Figo's goal tally's and compare (unfavorably to Ronaldo) but he was an absolute wizard.
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Messi
Ronaldo
Ronaldo
Dinho
Zidane
 
Pocho said:
Messi
Ronaldo
Ronaldo
Dinho
Zidane
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Yeah Dinho is definitely ahead of Zizou for me. Great player Zidane but dare I say he’s just touch overrated.

I mean why aren’t players like Pele, Eusebio, Maradona, Best ahead of Zidane on people’s lists?

There’s no way Zidane is better than those players.
 
RUCK4444 said:
Yeah Dinho is definitely ahead of Zizou for me. Great player Zidane but dare I say he’s just touch overrated.

I mean why aren’t players like Pele, Eusebio, Maradona, Best ahead of Zidane on people’s lists?

There’s no way Zidane is better than those players.
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We are talking post-Maradona.

Of course on no planet is Zidane better than Pele, Eusebio, Maradona, and Best.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
We are talking post-Maradona.

Of course on no planet is Zidane better than Pele, Eusebio, Maradona, and Best.
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Zidane ranks pretty highly on many people's list and I believe a considerable proportion of football fans would have him above Best and Eusebio, a few even as the best in history. I think it's primarily because he's probably the most elegant player to date so if you pay huge importance to aesthetics, it's a logical choice. He also got some incredible big stage performances like WC 98, CL 2002, WC 2006 contributing to his legacy. But I agree, overall he didn't have the same impact as the aforementioned and I'd have him behind Ronaldinho and R9 in the post Maradona days.
 
I cant accept a list that has Zidane on it but doesnt have Xavi and Iniesta but thats just me.
 
VanKenny said:
I cant accept a list that has Zidane on it but doesnt have Xavi and Iniesta but thats just me.
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Yeah me too.
Zidedine had more charisma and mystique surrounding him but those two are surely at his level for actual class and impact on the field.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Interesting to consider who would make this list. I’d go with Messi, the two Ronaldos, Zidane and Romario. Could also make arguments for Ronaldinho and Roberto Baggio. Probably some people I’m forgetting.....
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Ronaldinho and Baggio are both far better than Zidane
 
Don’t understand all the Zidane hate. He was a tremendous player
 
I just love this arbitrary "doesn't have world cup" requirement whenever Messi and CR7 debate comes up for GOAT candidates. Its as if not having a cup that only happens once every 4 years, with team mates you don't spend most time with, in a month long knockout style tournament where luck of the draw (or luck in general) plays a huge part nullifies everything else you may have achieved as a player, including your skills, stats, commitment and longevity. Its especially true given CR7 with Portugal has a little chance of ever winning it given the other traditional heavyweights around.
 
Bogdannn said:
Ronaldinho and Baggio are both far better than Zidane
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Zidane has won

-the World Cup
-The Champions League
-The Ballon D’Or

there are only 8 men in history who have won those 3 three things, and a couple of those won the WC or CL basically as squad players

In addition to that, he has:

-A World Cup Golden Ball
-Has scored 3 goals in two WC finals (a record matched only by Pele; Hurst also scored 3 but in one game)
-Has scored in the champions league final (very few players have scored in both the WC final and the CL final. 5, to be exact)

Yet people on here are calling him a bum. The mind boggles.....
 
NasirTimothy said:
Zidane has won

-the World Cup
-The Champions League
-The Ballon D’Or

there are only 8 men in history who have won those 3 three things, and a couple of those won the WC or CL basically as squad players
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Countless have won the WC and the CL.
Zidane was not the main reason France won it. His performance in 98 was just average. He didn't do anything apart from those 2 headers in the final, and that was against a Brazil team in shock after R9's convulsion.
He played well in the 2001 CL final, but there are countless other matches and CL finals where he went missing. One game doesn't change that.
And he didn't deserve the Ballon D'or in 98. The only reason he won it was that one game (98 final), completely disregarding how he was invisible for Juventus during the Champions League final against Real Madrid in the same year or in all the other games of that very same World Cup.

NasirTimothy said:
In addition to that, he has:
-A World Cup Golden Ball
-Has scored 3 goals in two WC finals (a record matched only by Pele; Hurst also scored 3 but in one game)
-Has scored in the champions league final (very few players have scored in both the WC final and the CL final. 5, to be exact)

Yet people on here are calling him a bum. The mind boggles.....
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Nobody is calling him a bum, I'm just saying peak vs peak, the likes of R10 and Baggio were far superior, it ain't even close.
Based on peak form, Zidane is not even top 20 of all time as far as I'm concerned.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Maradona had an exceptional work ethic. The fella lived for football. He’s always spoken About as a phenomenal trainer. He served as an example for players around him.

It feels as though you’ve watched one documentary that spoke of Diego’s drug abuse or party lifestyle and applied those across his whole career.

I’m sure he indulged in some marching powder and partying across the best years of his career. But he was a committed professional. Not a drunken, drug addled mess that shone little and often. He was a dominant force on a football pitch for over a decade.

He dominated against the best teams and defences at a truly unfashionable club. He did that in an era where people would watch football for enjoyment. Not one where people hate-watch Messi to post about Ronaldo when the final whistle blows if he missed a sitter.

Rivalries were more intense, but more respectful in the late 80’s and 90’s. There was a totality of support for your team. That’s not a Rose-tinted view. Supporters nowadays want to boil down every discussion to a binary. To do that they’ll reduce it to numbers on a page. It’s so silly.

If you’re a football fan, there are worse things you could do than to just let yourself drown in old Maradona footage. Some stories from his ex team mates. There’s so much out there. I don’t believe anyone that’s done that, ever arrives at the end of the deep dive, shrugs and goes “He didn’t have it, he’s not up there”.
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I loved that fella and am old enough to have watched him on TV while he still was at his peak. I truly think that he's the greatest footballer to ever have graced a football pitch. I also don't give a flying feck about stats since they'll never tell the whole story, and couldn't care less that he didn't win the CL or didn't score 70 goals a season.

It's also true that he trained like hell to be in shape for his Sunday game or whatever he felt important. His leadership qualities, grinta and sheer will to win are also unquestionable. However you have to kid yourself if you think that he was a professional. He wasn't. Not really. He loved Life too much to constantly commit himself to the hardships of a pro footballer career. For a while he just had enough talent to compensate for his excesses and put about a thousand light-years between him and the second best footballer on the planet at the time, even when he wasn't at his best. Then at some point, it wasn't enough anymore, his body finally gave up on him and his career went downhill absurdly fast. The rest is history.

Messi and CR7 are up there with the very best in history and what they they achieved in terms of numbers and consistency is simply astounding. Any football fan shitting on one of them to favor the other one should stop watching football altogether. However I'm convinced that I'll never see in my lifetime any footballer remotely similar to what Diego was and what he brought to the game.
 
NasirTimothy said:
Zidane has won

-the World Cup
-The Champions League
-The Ballon D’Or

there are only 8 men in history who have won those 3 three things, and a couple of those won the WC or CL basically as squad players

In addition to that, he has:

-A World Cup Golden Ball
-Has scored 3 goals in two WC finals (a record matched only by Pele; Hurst also scored 3 but in one game)
-Has scored in the champions league final (very few players have scored in both the WC final and the CL final. 5, to be exact)

Yet people on here are calling him a bum. The mind boggles.....
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I have

Zidane
Ronaldinho
Kaka
Beckenbauer (?)

Who are the others?
 
Bogdannn said:
Countless have won the WC and the CL.
Zidane was not the main reason France won it. His performance in 98 was just average. He didn't do anything apart from those 2 headers in the final, and that was against a Brazil team in shock after R9's convulsion.
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I said the WC, the CL and the BDO. That's not 'countless', that's 8 people in history (really only 5 or 6, cos someone like Kaka has a WC winners medal but only played for half an hour in the 2002 WC). And even if we say just the WC and CL, how many people have won both and scored in both finals? Please study your history.

Plus, those two headers were pretty important. Hilarious that you can just dismiss them as if scoring two goals in a World Cup final isn’t a big deal and something that happens every day. How many players have scored 2 goals in a World Cup final? Or 3 in 2 finals like ZZ? What you said is also nonsense because he played well in the other matches he featured in. What you said is even more nonsense because he played in another World Cup in 2006 where he was clearly the best player in the tournament and took Ronaldinho to school in the France-Brazil match. Not to mention being clearly the best player at Euro 2000.

Bogdannn said:
He played well in the 2001 CL final, but there are countless other matches and CL finals where he went missing. One game doesn't change that.
And he didn't deserve the Ballon D'or in 98. The only reason he won it was that one game (98 final), completely disregarding how he was invisible for Juventus during the Champions League final against Real Madrid in the same year or in all the other games of that very same World Cup.
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He was third in the BDO voting in 1997, won it in 1998 and came second in 2000. He also won FIFA world player of the year twice in 2000 and 2003. But according to this guy, he only played well in about 3 matches during that time. You’re being ridiculous

Bogdannn said:
Nobody is calling him a bum, I'm just saying peak vs peak, the likes of R10 and Baggio were far superior, it ain't even close.
Based on peak form, Zidane is not even top 20 of all time as far as I'm concerned.
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That may be your opinion and you’re entitled to it, but I must inform you that it is devoid of any logic.
 
Zehner said:
Ah, I see. To make it clear, the analogy with the video game was more to highlight that the one who achieved the highest level is the one who's generally considered the best, even if there are others who did over a longer period of time as long as they didn't hit the same heights. Football performance is obviously incredibly more difficult to quantify compared to the score of a video game. I don't think you can measure it in goal and assist stats, there are far too many variables for that. I for example think R9 in the Real Madrid and Barca sides Messi had built around them would just score as much as they did if not more.

Also, I don't think that one season is enough to prove one's worth. However, R9 had three to four absolute top class seasons and the level he proved in those to me is up there or even higher than anybody else in history. And he did it over a sustained period of time, showing that he's not a flash in the pan.
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Which three to four absolute top class seasons were those? Very curious.
 
Zehner said:
I have

Zidane
Ronaldinho
Kaka
Beckenbauer (?)

Who are the others?
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Gerd Müller and Rivaldo as well, but we'd still be a few players short.

Although only European players could win the Ballon d'Or until the mid-90s, otherwise at least Pele (Copa Libertadores) would feature too.
 
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Zehner said:
I have

Zidane
Ronaldinho
Kaka
Beckenbauer (?)

Who are the others?
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All correct. The full list is

Charlton
Muller
Beckenbauer
Kaka
Ronaldinho
Rossi
Zidane
Rivaldo

As I said, Kaka doesn’t really count and Rivaldo is a bit iffy as well cos I don’t think he was playing much at Milan when they won the CL. He was an unused sub in the final for example.
 
Zidane does seem to get more inconsistent by the year and be a favourite for criticism nowadays among the greats of recent decades. I think Iniesta will eventually unfairly get this too, because of him playing as an attacking midfielder in such strong teams, yet not having eye catching individual stats.

The inconsistency of Zidane is really overstated imo and i'm someone that doesn't consider him to be nearly as talented as some do, or at least not particularly more talented than a good amount of other playmakers he surpassed in career accomplishment. It wasn't until the last years at Real Madrid you could find him coasting a lot in games to the extent it was a detriment to the team.
 
NasirTimothy said:
I said the WC, the CL and the BDO. That's not 'countless', that's 8 people in history (really only 5 or 6, cos someone like Kaka has a WC winners medal but only played for half an hour in the 2002 WC). And even if we say just the WC and CL, how many people have won both and scored in both finals? Please study your history.
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Had he dragged his teams after him to those trophies, your point would have been valid. As it is, it isn't. Zidane simply had the luck of benefiting from great teams, it's not his merit. 1 match per competition doesn't change that.
His performance in 98 is not comparable to those of Pele, Garrincha, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Maradona, Romario, Baggio, Ronaldo at a World Cup.
Likewise, his overall Champions League campaign in 2001 is not comparable to those of CR7, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Robben, etc.

NasirTimothy said:
Plus, those two headers were pretty important. Hilarious that you can just dismiss them as if scoring two goals in a World Cup final isn’t a big deal and something that happens every day. How many players have scored 2 goals in a World Cup final? Or 3 in 2 finals like ZZ? What you said is also nonsense because he played well in the other matches he featured in. What you said is even more nonsense because he played in another World Cup in 2006 where he was clearly the best player in the tournament and took Ronaldinho to school in the France-Brazil match. Not to mention being clearly the best player at Euro 2000.
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It's not that scoring 2 headers is not important, but his overall campaign wasn't. I saw that World Cup live. He was average apart from that final.
And no, he wasn't the best player in 2006. He got the Golden Ball as a consolation prize, the same way Messi got his in 2006.
Just like in 98, he only had a big game against Brazil, that's all. France had a great squad and only conceded 3 goals on route to the final.
Pirlo, Cannavaro and Viera deserved the Golden Ball far more than Zidane. They won more man of the match trophies than he did.

NasirTimothy said:
He was third in the BDO voting in 1997, won it in 1998 and came second in 2000. He also won FIFA world player of the year twice in 2000 and 2003. But according to this guy, he only played well in about 3 matches during that time. You’re being ridiculous
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He didn't deserve it in 98. The only time he did deserve it was in 2000, when he had a great Euro event.

NasirTimothy said:
That may be your opinion and you’re entitled to it, but I must inform you that it is devoid of any logic.
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Actually, it has plenty of logic. Zidane was a very inconsistent player throughout his career and he only showed up in a few big games and went missing in countless others.
Baggio's performance in 94 (carrying an injury) is way more impressive than Zidane's in 98.
 
I used to get frustrated at how Zidane got all the plaudits from more casual fans in the UK when some of his contemporaries, namely Ronaldo and Rivaldo were more consistent match-winners during his era. But at the same time it feels like some of the criticism has gone too far. Having rewatched quite a few of his games for Juventus, France and Real during the late 1990s and early 2000s, I think he shines more often than he gets credit for. Quite regularly in the more bread-and-butter domestic games - the sort where he's often seen to underwhelm - he's still performing to a high standard. There is a context about the environment he played in, particularly at Juventus, where Serie A games were very attritional, full of gritty workhorses cancelling out flair players, everyone playing narrow winger-less systems to suffocate midfield - yet he was the one go-to guy on the park for anything creative. A very difficult place to pull out impressive stats in such a competitive league when most of your game is around the centre circle 50 yards from goal. It wasn't just him - Baggio had an erratic club career, particularly outside of his 92-94 spell at Juve, Savicevic and Bergkamp didn't really settle, while Laudrup and Rui Costa both had seasons where they didn't score a single goal. In that period it was completely unforgiving for creative players of his ilk. I can't help but feel if you were to transfer him into an elite team today he would generate much more impressive stats by getting into the final third more regularly compared to the mostly middle third player he was for much of his club career.
 
Bogdannn said:
Had he dragged his teams after him to those trophies, your point would have been valid. As it is, it isn't. Zidane simply had the luck of benefiting from great teams, it's not his merit. 1 match per competition doesn't change that.
His performance in 98 is not comparable to those of Pele, Garrincha, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Maradona, Romario, Baggio, Ronaldo at a World Cup.
Likewise, his overall Champions League campaign in 2001 is not comparable to those of CR7, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Robben, etc.


It's not that scoring 2 headers is not important, but his overall campaign wasn't. I saw that World Cup live. He was average apart from that final.
And no, he wasn't the best player in 2006. He got the Golden Ball as a consolation prize, the same way Messi got his in 2006.
Just like in 98, he only had a big game against Brazil, that's all. France had a great squad and only conceded 3 goals on route to the final.
Pirlo, Cannavaro and Viera deserved the Golden Ball far more than Zidane. They won more man of the match trophies than he did.


He didn't deserve it in 98. The only time he did deserve it was in 2000, when he had a great Euro event.


Actually, it has plenty of logic. Zidane was a very inconsistent player throughout his career and he only showed up in a few big games and went missing in countless others.
Baggio's performance in 94 (carrying an injury) is way more impressive than Zidane's in 98.
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Let’s see....Player of the year in the French league, Serie A foreign player of the year twice, Serie A player of the year and most assists in 2001, La liga’s best foreign player, 3 time FIFA world’s best player (98, 00, 03), top 3 in the Ballon D’Or 3 times and winner in 98, named in the World FIFA 11 four times, Onze D’Argent winner 3 times, Onze D’Or (best player in Europe) winner 3 times, World Cup team of the tournament twice, Golden Ball (best player) in both the Euros and the World Cup, made the Euros team of the tournament twice (2000 and 2004), European player of the year four times, UEFA team of the year 3 times, UEFA Award for best European player of the last 50 years (2004), named the best French player of all time by L’Equipe, named in UEFA’s all time European Championship 11, named in World Soccer’s greatest 11 of all time, named in Real Madrid’s greatest 11 of all time, named in Juventus’s greatest 11 of all time, named the best footballer of the decade (the 2000s) by ESPN, Sports Illustrated and Fox Sports, won the IFFHS world’s best playmaker award etc, etc, etc....


But ‘Bogdannn’ knows better than all these esteemed judges of talent. I guess Zizou didn’t ‘deserve’ any of these awards either. He was just ‘lucky’ to be on good teams and had one good game per tournament apparently.

I find it very amusing when people talk about a highly accomplished player being ‘lucky.’ It’s just silly
 
Gio said:
I used to get frustrated at how Zidane got all the plaudits from more casual fans in the UK when some of his contemporaries, namely Ronaldo and Rivaldo were more consistent match-winners during his era. But at the same time it feels like some of the criticism has gone too far. Having rewatched quite a few of his games for Juventus, France and Real during the late 1990s and early 2000s, I think he shines more often than he gets credit for. Quite regularly in the more bread-and-butter domestic games - the sort where he's often seen to underwhelm - he's still performing to a high standard. There is a context about the environment he played in, particularly at Juventus, where Serie A games were very attritional, full of gritty workhorses cancelling out flair players, everyone playing narrow winger-less systems to suffocate midfield - yet he was the one go-to guy on the park for anything creative. A very difficult place to pull out impressive stats in such a competitive league when most of your game is around the centre circle 50 yards from goal. It wasn't just him - Baggio had an erratic club career, particularly outside of his 92-94 spell at Juve, Savicevic and Bergkamp didn't really settle, while Laudrup and Rui Costa both had seasons where they didn't score a single goal. In that period it was completely unforgiving for creative players of his ilk. I can't help but feel if you were to transfer him into an elite team today he would generate much more impressive stats by getting into the final third more regularly compared to the mostly middle third player he was for much of his club career.
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Great points, with some interesting context brought to the discussion
 
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