Ronaldo vs Ronaldo

shamans said:
I also think just because CR7 is a monster physically people forget just how good he is naturally on the ball.
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They just ignore the parts of the game they don't like and focus on the parts of the game it gives them a boner to watch...

Ask people here to make the best starting eleven of the past 20 years and most of the draft crowd will peak Ronaldinho ahead of Cristiano, I guarantee you :lol:
 
Righteous Steps said:
It could be 20 years from now, doesn’t matter R9 is arguably the most gifted player of all time, it’s an insult in the same way saying you have large genetalia is.
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When it reaches the floor calling it large doesn't really make it justice

R9 has two seasons where it's fair to compare him with Cristiano, 1996/97 and 1997/98. All others are worse than any Cristiano Ronaldo season in the past 13 years ffs.

It won't stop at 13 either.
 
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Ronaldo9 had a bit more flair technically than Cristiano but also Messi and anyone else in the last couple decades but that's pretty much it. Overall the latter two were better players.
 
Peyroteo said:
Turns out being better at the sport is more important than making you feel tingly inside while watching it.

What a joke of a thread, it’s an insult to Cristiano. Should have been born in a different country and played a different and worse style of football to get the romantics kissing his ass.

If he had kept his 2006/07 level for 15 years he’d have been a clearly worse player... but at least he’d have gotten the love from this crowd.
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Why do you take other people's opinion of Ronaldo so personally, and why is it so important to you? You genuinly act like you've been slapped in the face when random strangers on the internet happen to not share your opinion of him, or even like above when they have the audacity to praise someone else (or him) in a way you don't find acceptable. Jesus was less bothered about people's opinion of god than you seem to be about the caf's opinion of Ronaldo.
 
Peyroteo said:
When it reaches the floor calling it large doesn't really make it justice

R9 has two seasons where it's fair to compare him with Cristiano, 1996/97 and 1997/98. All others are worse than any Cristiano Ronaldo season in the past 13 years ffs.

It won't stop at 13 either.
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If you're judging based on stats and Wikipedia, it would explain why you're unable to comprehend why RdL was the superior player.
 
Zlaatan said:
Why do you take other people's opinion of Ronaldo so personally, and why is it so important to you? You genuinly act like you've been slapped in the face when random strangers on the internet happen to not share your opinion of him, or even like above when they have the audacity to praise someone else (or him) in a way you don't find acceptable. Jesus was less bothered about people's opinion of god than you seem to be about the caf's opinion of Ronaldo.
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Because it’s a joke of an opinion and I disagree with it. Same as I disagree with plenty of other subjects here and discuss those too.

What I find interesting is why you and plenty of others find it so abhorrent that I care to disagree with it. Why do my comments pain you so much to constantly comment about them in a dismissive way instead of arguing them? And why not ignore them instead?
 
cjj said:
If you're judging based on stats and Wikipedia, it would explain why you're unable to comprehend why RdL was the superior player.
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Right... I literally gave my reasoning as to why my opinion is what it is.

Instead of arguing that, you completely make up a stupid reason as to why I hold my opinion and proceed to argue against that instead.

Fantastic...
 
Nostalgia is definitely playing a big role in this debate. Ronaldo de Lima and Messi are my two favourite footballers ever. The former being such a frightening attacker who bullied world class defenders physically but also was as technically gifted as anyone, sheer pace, both feet and mentally unphased - without the injuries etc he could well have gone down as the goat.

Messi is the goat imo, can't be arsed saying why. I just haven't seen anyone do what he has done on the pitch and then factor in his records - its a no brainer for me.

However, Cristiano Ronaldo is probably the best goalscorer ever and has shown he is on a different level in each league he has played in. His records speak for themselves.

I've always wondered what the results would be if you asked every non biased professional manager who in the history of football they would pick to play alongside their team in cup final. Now by this I mean average, so across all leagues, various styles of play etc. I reckon most would say a 2012-2016 Cristiano Ronaldo given his ability to score from anything, alongside anyone and his mentality.

Cristiano wins for me.
 
Cristiano is still by far the least technically gifted of the greats. Ronaldo, Pele, Maradonna, Messi had a natural effortlessness to their game and their inherent feel for the ball and coordination sets them apart. He deserves tremendous credit for almost making the grade. From an egalitarian view, Ronaldo's really, really hard trying is more admirable than the tyrannical genius of the very best in the game.
 
Peyroteo said:
Right... I literally gave my reasoning as to why my opinion is what it is.

Instead of arguing that, you completely make up a stupid reason as to why I hold my opinion and proceed to argue against that instead.

Fantastic...
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You didn't, you quoted some sort of weak statistic.

You can't discredit what he did at Cruzeiro and PSV as if they don't count, then hold the belief that Cristiano playing for Real in a joke league somehow holds more credit.
 
I think that Cristiano with the kind of serious injuries that had Ronaldo Fenomeno at 23 and 25 would have ended his career for sure, while at that time it didn’t stop Fenomeno to come back and leading Brazil to win the WC. I think that he must thank mother nature to have given him more health than the brazilian, even though he can be all that maniacal about training, fitness, supply to be a machine as professionist.
About talent there’s no doubt that Fenomeno was something else compared to the portoguese
 
Cristiano.

At Madrid: 438 appearances, 450 goals in 9 years! And yes, it is important that he did it day in and day out for 9 full years. Incredible!

That's 48 games per year for 9 years, and over 1 goal per game, again for 9 years!!!

(The fat Ronaldo never came close to these numbers. His career total is only 352 goals. No comparison. )
 
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If football was all about statistics then I highly doubt it'd be as popular as it is now.

Failing to understand the beautiful game leads to @Peyroteo going into overload with stats.

Football is emotive for a reason. Would you rather win a derby or a final 10-0 or win it with the last kick of the game? One of them favours the statistics, one of them favours the heart. I know which I'd rather see and it isn't the one sided one.
 
matherto said:
If football was all about statistics then I highly doubt it'd be as popular as it is now.

Failing to understand the beautiful game leads to @Peyroteo going into overload with stats.

Football is emotive for a reason. Would you rather win a derby or a final 10-0 or win it with the last kick of the game? One of them favours the statistics, one of them favours the heart. I know which I'd rather see and it isn't the one sided one.
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Picking R9 over Cristiano because it’s what your heart tells you to do might be one of the most reasonable reasonings here tbf.

And I literally could not give less of a shit about the stats. How many times do I have to say it?

I say ‘lies, damned lies and statistics’ once every 20 posts or so and you people still want to pretend I’m saying something I’m not saying.

Stats are relevant to a point. I was literally the one to argue in this thread that it made no sense to make a direct comparison between their stats...
 
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cjj said:
You didn't, you quoted some sort of weak statistic.

You can't discredit what he did at Cruzeiro and PSV as if they don't count, then hold the belief that Cristiano playing for Real in a joke league somehow holds more credit.
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Did you just call La Liga a joke league while demanding I pay attention to what R9 did in Brazil and in the Eredevise?

1996/97 and 1997/98 are the only two seasons R9 ever had that were better than the worst Cristiano Ronaldo season in the past 13 years. That’s not a statistic.
 
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If the one had injuries and the other had no injuries, and if I was a few meters per second faster, and if I was stronger and better ... I would be the best Ronaldo (if my name was Ronaldo).

With "ifs" and "buts" you can arrive to any conclusion you want.
 
Peyroteo said:
I literally could not give less of a shit about the stats ffs. How many times do I have to say it?

I say ‘lies, damned lies and statistics’ once every 20 posts or so and you people still want to pretend I’m saying something I’m not saying.

Stats are relevant to a point. I was literally the one to argue in this fecking thread that it made no sense to make a direct comparison between their stats for fecks sake.
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If you couldn't give less of a shit about the stats you wouldn't have gone into overload posting about stats would you?

You clearly do care about the stats, otherwise you wouldn't have made the point to begin with.

But alas, we'll leave you to it. The best player isn't something defined by anything other than opinions.
 
Cristiano boys are so stats boys.

Ronaldo and Messi operate under the lazy gift of genius, they take their place amongst the contemptible immortals alongside Mozart, Picasso and Apollo.

Cristiano instead belongs to the heroic pantheon with Faust, Pol Pot and the saints, who cursed by ordinariness are hung by their own bootstraps and flayed like a Marsyas.
 
matherto said:
If you couldn't give less of a shit about the stats you wouldn't have gone into overload posting about stats would you?

You clearly do care about the stats, otherwise you wouldn't have made the point to begin with.

But alas, we'll leave you to it. The best player isn't something defined by anything other than opinions.
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Stats like goals and assists are relevant, they obviously do matter to some extent... doesn’t mean anyone should take it as information without the context of actually watching the games and understanding the circumstances behind them. Obviously.

The best player is something defined by opinion but if I argue Heskey was better than Pele you’d still get to call me an idiot.
 
dumbo said:
Cristiano boys are so stats boys.

Ronaldo and Messi operate under the lazy gift of genius, they take their place amongst the contemptible immortals alongside Mozart, Picasso and Apollo.

Cristiano instead belongs to the heroic pantheon with Faust, Pol Pot and the saints, who cursed by ordinariness are hung by their own bootstraps and flayed like a Marsyas.
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Is this parody
 
matherto said:
If football was all about statistics then I highly doubt it'd be as popular as it is now.

Failing to understand the beautiful game leads to @Peyroteo going into overload with stats.

Football is emotive for a reason. Would you rather win a derby or a final 10-0 or win it with the last kick of the game? One of them favours the statistics, one of them favours the heart. I know which I'd rather see and it isn't the one sided one.
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Should make a thread for this.

I think it'd be fairly split.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
The Ballon D'Or has been shamed with Messi not being in the top 3 the past year.
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A top 3 player in the world has to be something more than ok in the two biggest competitions of the year. Nothing wrong with it.

Same thing happened with Ronaldo in 2010 and it was fair then too.
 
Genuinely, the the R9 advocates need to learn how to assess things objectively. This isn't even a close comparison.

Fat Ronaldo is probably my favourite ever player but he's not on the same level as CR7.
 
Peyroteo said:
A top 3 player in the world has to be something more than ok in the two biggest competitions of the year. Nothing wrong with it.

Same thing happened with Ronaldo in 2010 and it was fair then too.
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He was far and away better than anyone else in the top European leagues(league wise).

Modric was pretty average in La Liga all season. And it took months for Ronaldo to start performing to his standard in La Liga.

I'd love to see the argument for Griezmann being a better player than Messi in 2018.
 
Peyroteo said:
Did you just call La Liga a joke league while demanding I pay attention to what R9 did in Brazil and in the Eredevise?

1996/97 and 1997/98 are the only two seasons R9 ever had that were better than the worst Cristiano Ronaldo season in the past 13 years. That’s not a statistic.
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Yes, La Liga is a joke league. The government and Spanish FA have quite literally funded Real and Barca whilst neglecting all the other teams, meaning that up until a few seasons ago, it had been completely dominated by two teams.

Eredivisie, at the time RdL was playing, had some of the best talents in world football. RdL was playing for PSV during a time when Ajax were winning European cups.

So yes, you can't disregard RdL's time at PSV as irrelevant and yet still somehow expect credibility to be shown towards CR playing in one of basically two government funded teams. In 2016, for example, CR scored something like 14 of his goals against two separate teams.

Irrespective of this, you are making statements about "better seasons", which is a statistical comparison and completely futile. The original point myself and others in this thread have made is that anyone who actually watched RdL play would easily see he was a superior player prior to his knee injuries. There aren't enough spreadsheets, statistics, and calculators in the world that credibly represent a brilliant footballer - some things are down to pure observation.
 
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tomaldinho1 said:
Genuinely, the the R9 advocates need to learn how to assess things objectively. This isn't even a close comparison.

Fat Ronaldo is probably my favourite ever player but he's not on the same level as CR7.
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Peak wise or career wise?

Career wise, I agree.

Peak wise, they're definitely comparable.
 
cjj said:
Yes, La Liga is a joke league. The government and Spanish FA have quite literally funded Real and Barca whilst neglecting all the other teams, meaning that up until a few seasons ago, it had been completely dominated by two teams.

Eredivisie, at the time RdL was playing, had some of the best talents in world football. RdL was playing for PSV during a time when Ajax were winning European cups.

So yes, you can't disregard RdL's time at PSV as irrelevant and yet still somehow expect credibility to be shown towards CR playing in one of basically two government funded teams. In 2016, for example, CR scored something like 14 of his goals against two separate teams.

Irrespective of this, you are making statements about "better seasons", which is a statistical comparison and completely futile. The original point myself and others in this thread have made is that anyone who actually watched RdL play would easily see he was a superior player prior to his knee injuries. There aren't enough spreadsheets, statistics, and calculators in the world that credibly represent a brilliant footballer - some things are down to pure observation.
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They have consistently been leading UEFA rankings this years.

The Dutch league during the 90's at best was on the same level as the Portuguese until pre Bosman.

Yes Ajax was fantastic with LVG. Guess what, Benfica and Porto consistently reached QF's and SMF in Europe, even us playing against Real Madrid before Bosman made them sweat, not to mention even Boavista knocked out teams like Inter, Lazio and on and on.

Unless you are trying to say to me CR7 wouldn't score goals against Go Ahead Eagles are you? I suspect even coming from a after on the coffe shop he would take the piss there. Don't go that way, there is no comparison.
 
cjj said:
Yes, La Liga is a joke league. The government and Spanish FA have quite literally funded Real and Barca whilst neglecting all the other teams, meaning that up until a few seasons ago, it had been completely dominated by two teams.

Eredivisie, at the time RdL was playing, had some of the best talents in world football. RdL was playing for PSV during a time when Ajax were winning European cups.

So yes, you can't disregard RdL's time at PSV as irrelevant and yet still somehow expect credibility to be shown towards CR playing in one of basically two government funded teams. In 2016, for example, CR scored something like 14 of his goals against two separate teams.

Irrespective of this, you are making statements about "better seasons", which is a statistical comparison and completely futile. The original point myself and others in this thread have made is that anyone who actually watched RdL play would easily see he was a superior player prior to his knee injuries. There aren't enough spreadsheets, statistics, and calculators in the world that credibly represent a brilliant footballer - some things are down to pure observation.
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What? It has absolutely nothing at all to do with statistics for fecks sake... how the hell does saying a player had a better season than other mean that I compared their stats? I actually watched them play.

Yeah La Liga that two team league which had Atlético and Sevilla dominate in Europe and their other teams doing better than any other league... Going to start to watch the Eredivise for the talent and balance between teams despite that it’s still PSV and Ajax at the top the same way Barca and Madrid dominate...

If the best league in the world by far is a joke league, then what do you call the rest of world football?

Ronaldo at Madrid averaged 1.07 goals per game in La Liga and 1.04 goals per game in the champions League for 9 years and you’re honestly trying to tell me the only reason he scored loads of goals is that the league is unbalanced?
 
Alright let’s make this debate more fair, who was better between 1996-1998 Ronaldo and 2006-2008 Cristiano?
 
Peyroteo said:
Because it’s a joke of an opinion and I disagree with it. Same as I disagree with plenty of other subjects here and discuss those too.

What I find interesting is why you and plenty of others find it so abhorrent that I care to disagree with it. Why do my comments pain you so much to constantly comment about them in a dismissive way instead of arguing them? And why not ignore them instead?
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You didn't answer my question. I'm sure you discuss other subjects but there's a very good reason why your tag line isn't 'Professional random subject PR guy'.. there is no one on this forum who acts like you act in regards to Ronaldo, on any subject, so surely you must understand that people take notice and wonder what's going on? All I'm asking is why do you take it so personally?

Ibra has been my favorite athlete for the past 20 odd years but that doesn't mean that I want to smash my keyboard into the wall every time someone on the internet says another player had a better game than him once.
 
Zlaatan said:
You didn't answer my question. I'm sure you discuss other subjects but there's a very good reason why your tag line isn't 'Professional random subject PR guy'.. there is no one on this forum who acts like you act in regards to Ronaldo, on any subject, so surely you must understand that people take notice and wonder what's going on? All I'm asking is why do you take it so personally?

Ibra has been my favorite athlete for the past 20 odd years but that doesn't mean that I want to smash my keyboard into the wall every time someone on the internet says another player had a better game than him once.
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Neither do I, I got the tagline the same way Cal? gets it... Because people like you do this exact thing since they don’t like what I have to say. Painting me as biased and deluded and dismissing my points is easier than arguing them.

I argue the same way about this subject as I do about anything here... you don’t like it, ignore me and you don’t have to see my posts rather than derailing threads over and over again with the same conservation. This must be at least the fourth time we’re having the same conversation.

It’s not any ‘people’ that take notice. It’s the people who get upset by it... it just happens that giving Ronaldo the praise he deserves doesn’t really make a lot of people happy.

Can we stop detailing this and future threads now? You can send me a PM next time so I can talk to you about my childhood and how it impacted my posting habits on redcafe
 
People DO give Cristiano the credit he deserves though @Peyroteo. Especially on a United forum, jesus.

All of us are fans of his either through being United fans, being Portuguese or being fans of great footballers.

All of us recognise his greatness, it's just that when it gets to the very top of the top, it gets incredibly subjective because they're all so good so we're left arguing until we die because we'll never be able to prove anything.
 
I think it ultimately comes down to what your view is on the progression of the sport. I personally believe the standard of football is increasing each and every year on the whole with the advances in sports science, fitness, money, more exposure and more competition.

I think if you put Ronaldo and Messi at their peaks on a pitch with the greats ( Pele, Maradonna, Van Basten, Cruyff, Best, Eusebio, Platini and even Ronaldo 9, Zidane, Del Piero, Figo - you get where im coming from), at their peaks, ronaldo and messi would look considerably better in terms of fitness and ability. However imagine Ronaldo de Lima was born a decade later and maradonna 27 years later - with the current advancements they very well may have been as good if not better than the present greats.

Comparing anything over a significant time period be it sports, cars, movies, architecture is very difficult because there's so many factors to take into account. The only solid data i guess you could use would be statistics.
 
matherto said:
People DO give Cristiano the credit he deserves though @Peyroteo. Especially on a United forum, jesus.

All of us are fans of his either through being United fans, being Portuguese or being fans of great footballers.

All of us recognise his greatness, it's just that when it gets to the very top of the top, it gets incredibly subjective because they're all so good so we're left arguing until we die because we'll never be able to prove anything.
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I mean, there’s a thread right now where people are making an XI of the past 40 years and about half are putting him on the bench :lol:

It’s 2019 and he’s getting compared to Muller, Eusebio, R9 and Ronaldinho... the same people he was getting compared to 5 years ago.

This place might be a United forum but it’s no different from other general football forums when it comes to these things. He’s a top 5 player of all time that pissed too many people off and gets scrutinized far more than any other player because loads of people don’t like him. Go back 2 years and there were serious arguments here over the advantages and disadvantages of Manchester United signing Lukaku, Morata, Belotti or Cristiano Ronaldo ffs.
 
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Messi is the GOAT and C.Ron is a close second. No one else is in there league.
 
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