He also failed to win the league in either of those seasons.
Anyway, we can agree to disagree, personally, Luiz's best ever season compares to Cristiano's worst in the last decade or so.
Ronaldo vs Ronaldo
- Thread starter altodevil
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Anyway, we can agree to disagree, personally, Luiz's best ever season compares to Cristiano's worst in the last decade or so.
It's the Portuguese for me, due to his consistency and incredible goal scoring record. Yes, Brazilian Ronaldo was a more complete player, and unplayable at his peak. He was also often playing in set ups that didn't provide much support compared to super teams of today, relying more on individual brilliance.
But numbers don't lie. I also don't buy the argument about defenses being better back then. They were more conservative, but not necessarily better, and defenders weren't scrutinized to such a degree as today. Classic poachers also thrived at the time, and I find it hard to believe that C. Ronaldo wouldn't break records if he played back then.
But the argument about Ronaldo not winning Champions league being the proof that he wasn't really that good is laughable. And it's a good example how wins in cup competitions shouldn't be used as a measure of player's quality.
But numbers don't lie. I also don't buy the argument about defenses being better back then. They were more conservative, but not necessarily better, and defenders weren't scrutinized to such a degree as today. Classic poachers also thrived at the time, and I find it hard to believe that C. Ronaldo wouldn't break records if he played back then.
But the argument about Ronaldo not winning Champions league being the proof that he wasn't really that good is laughable. And it's a good example how wins in cup competitions shouldn't be used as a measure of player's quality.
No question R7 has the better career and peak. These guys are the opposites in term of fulfilling potential. R7 has better than anyone fulfilled his potential and made the most of his talent. He was on absolute top even during games against bad opposition. Thats why he couldn’t surprise anyone and go up a level or two in big games. The defenders knew what was coming and could neutrilize him easily. Thats the only negative thing in his career.
On the other hand R9 wasn’t even close to do that although his talent was bigger than anyone ive seen. Too bad his knees got in the way. Still my favourite player of all time due to those years before the injuries. You could how he took steps almost every game and it was just a matter of time until he was the best ever. Unfortunately that didn’t happen.
On the other hand R9 wasn’t even close to do that although his talent was bigger than anyone ive seen. Too bad his knees got in the way. Still my favourite player of all time due to those years before the injuries. You could how he took steps almost every game and it was just a matter of time until he was the best ever. Unfortunately that didn’t happen.
And as you know, he wasn't playing for CL teams during those seasons so clearly not the best team in the league, but was the driving force to both finishing second in the league.
And it's not a great barometer to bring up when C.Ronaldo himself managed only 2 league wins in 9 at RM.
Never a penalty is too extreme, I can see why there were people calling for it but I wouldn’t have given it.
Hardly ‘one of the biggest robberies of the 90s’ as he was calling it.
Fair enough I suppose without the hyperbole. I wouldn't be happy if United didn't get a penalty for that tonight anyway.
Barcelona finished 10 points ahead of Real (who won La Liga in 96-97) the season before he joined and won the league the season after he left.
Anyway, we're not going to convince each other, let's just leave it at this.
enjoy the game tonight!I'm going to OT tonight.
Top goalscorers in Serie A for Juve this season...
Cristiano Ronaldo - 18
Mandzukic - 8
Dybala- 2
Not that far away from Inter’s 97/98
In the 1997/98 season R9 scored or assisted 47% of all Inter goals in Serie A, in 2017/18 Cristiano has scored or assisted 50% of all Juventus goals in Serie A. Is he playing with a shit team too then? That’s just not the right way to look at it.
Also, robbery? That’s never a penalty... perfect refereeing. I’d love to know your opinion on the 2011/12 La Liga run in if you believe that R9 sequence in 1998 was impressive.
You're kidding, right? That would literally be a penalty in rugby let alone football.
Knowing what we know now about Serie A, that game is a fairly obvious case of bent refereeing.
If Viva Ronaldo gets going we will know who started it.I'm going to OT tonight.
It’s funny, I think that when people eulogize about what Ronaldo could have become, it probably looks a lot like what Cristiano ultimately became and still is.
The problem is you're posting stats and figures and backing up your claims with actual proof vs "ahhhhhh Ronaldo el phenomenon. Messi and Cristiano combined wohldnt be half as good".
Even at his peak CR7 and Messi are head and shoulders above him. They are better at ability and they are better statistically.
Mark my words, 10 years from now when both Messi and CR7 are retried this debate will be laughed at. People don't value what they have right now and romanticize the past.
What? It’s not a penalty, Ronaldo throws himself into the defender to force the contact. Couldn’t be further away from an obvious decision.
And even with a draw they wouldn’t have won the league anyway, finished 5 points behind in the end.
There is this weird thing going on whenever Christiano is involved, you'll have a bunch of posters act as if post-30 Christiano was his whole career being a top player. Ronaldo in his prime was a freak of nature, under Mourinho and Ancelotti, you could make a goal of the season shortlist with just his goals.
Then you never watched R9 from 96-98
I did.
Seriously if that is not a foul in the box what is it? He was bodychecked with the ball nowhere near. Nowadays you get penos for slightest of contacts truly odd thing to say.
That was my point.
Based on the couple of times this has been misunderstood, it's worth elaborating - Cristiano has had to work very hard, and had to be very disciplined, to reach the level he has, whilst simultaneously being lucky with injuries.
RdL was an unbelievable player before his injuries, and there's a huge distinction with some players when you compare the quality of the career to the quality of the player. Some lads work really hard to be 'World Class' and others are seemingly 'World Class' due to their natural ability (which is RdL vs CR, imo). Sometimes wonder what naturally gifted players like Best, Hoddle, Gascoigne and so on would have been like with this century's approach to football and an athlete's lifestyle.
I'd say he's worked extremely hard to maintain the level for as long as he has but not necessarily to reach that level. He always had the talent to be the best IMO and was already the best by the time he was 22..
I don't understand how someone could have seen RdL play up until he was that age and speak of anyone, especially Cristiano, being anywhere near his level. He was unbelievable up until his knees went in his early 20's. I don't think any description can do him justice. At 20 he had it all - strength, skill, speed, composure; he was scoring goals like this:
By 22, RdL had consistently won nearly (if not every) individual award a player could be given, some of them multiple times. A different player after his injuries, though.
From Wikipedia:
Best 4 years before injury:
1994–95 Eredivisie 36 games/35 goals
1995–96 — 21 games/19 goals
Barcelona 1996–97 La Liga 49 games/47 goals
Inter Milan 1997–98 Serie A 47games /34 goals
1998–99 28 games/15 goals
Total: 135 goals in 153 games
GPG in peak 4 years: 0.88
That seems like head and shoulders above the 0.75 the other top strikers have put up in the same time period isn't it? All from mid 90s to late 90s.
From Wikipedia:
Best 4 years before injury:
1994–95 Eredivisie 36 games/35 goals
1995–96 — 21 games/19 goals
Barcelona 1996–97 La Liga 49 games/47 goals
Inter Milan 1997–98 Serie A 47games /34 goals
1998–99 28 games/15 goals
Total: 135 goals in 153 games
GPG in peak 4 years: 0.88
That seems like head and shoulders above the 0.75 the other top strikers have put up in the same time period isn't it? All from mid 90s to late 90s.
I don't understand what the other guy is posting about with his gap difference, maybe I'm poor at stats, but I don't think he has any idea what he is talking about.
Best 4 years before injury:
1994–95 Eredivisie 36 games/35 goals
1995–96 — 21 games/19 goals
Barcelona 1996–97 La Liga 49 games/47 goals
Inter Milan 1997–98 Serie A 47games /34 goals
1998–99 28 games/15 goals
Total: 135 goals in 153 games
GPG in peak 4 years: 0.88
That seems like head and shoulders above the 0.75 the other top strikers have put up in the same time period isn't it? All from mid 90s to late 90s.
From Wikipedia:
Best 4 years before injury:
1994–95 Eredivisie 36 games/35 goals
1995–96 — 21 games/19 goals
Barcelona 1996–97 La Liga 49 games/47 goals
Inter Milan 1997–98 Serie A 47games /34 goals
1998–99 28 games/15 goals
Total: 135 goals in 153 games
GPG in peak 4 years: 0.88
That seems like head and shoulders above the 0.75 the other top strikers have put up in the same time period isn't it? All from mid 90s to late 90s.
I don't understand what the other guy is posting about with his gap difference, maybe I'm poor at stats, but I don't think he has any idea what he is talking about.
You have no idea what stats you looking at. I won't count his stats in Holland at all. Yes he was amazing there, but lots of darn average players have insane stats there over the years. It probably meant nothing.
Examples: (all these players and stats are during R9 active years in football)
Machlas
97:98: 34 goals in 32 games
(went to Spain once, only score 2 goals there...)
Kezmann
02-03: 40 goals in 43 games
03-04: 38 goals in 43 games
(he only managed to score 7 goals a season in England)
Alves
06-07: 37 goals in 38 games
(he only managed to score 6-7 goals a season in England)
Kuyt
04-05: 36 goals in 44 games
(he only manage to score 11-15 goals a season in England)
Huntelaar
07-08: 36 goals in 45 games
(he only manage to score 7-8 goals a season in La Liga/Serie A)
If you insist on counting those stats from lower league, then not only R9 stats increase, many other average players stats would increase too, the gap between them will remain same, or worst.
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Sorry, i won't count Dutch league stats for measuring greatness. Plenty of average footballers have racked up insane stats there.
I have only considered the top European leagues for a fair comparison.
Potential: Ronaldo
Peak: Ronaldo
Career: Ronaldo
Longevity: Methuselah
Being a twat: Cristiano
Peak: Ronaldo
Career: Ronaldo
Longevity: Methuselah
Being a twat: Cristiano
I'm not sure you'll gain any credit whatsoever by simply listing the poor examples, whilst ignoring the players that excelled
A plethora of players have been excellent in Eredivisie, and left to be as good or better in La Liga, PL and Serie A. It's like you're saying RdL wasn't brilliant because Kuyt wasn't
I'm not sure you'll gain any credit whatsoever by simply listing the poor examples, whilst ignoring the players that excelled
A plethora of players have been excellent in Eredivisie, and left to be as good or better in La Liga, PL and Serie A. It's like you're saying RdL wasn't brilliant because Kuyt wasn't
Don't mis-read and misinterpreted my post, all I am saying is that we cant use the stats from lower league to compare with top league for fair comparison. Doesn't mean the players aren't good if they play excellence in lower league. Hypothetically speaking, Messi in division 3 is still Messi. But some random guy name Bill who score 40 goals in division 3, surely you can't use the same stats to compare that with Messi stats in La Liga, in deciding who is the better goalscorer type of discussion. But when Salah score 40 goals in Premier league, yes you can use that.
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Even if you take away the Dutch seasons, Ronaldo has a gpg average of 0.77, better than other strikers of his time.
He is had and shoulders ahead of the rest.
He is had and shoulders ahead of the rest.
You realise that when Ronaldo was playing in the Eredivisie, Ajax were the literally the best team in Europe? It wasn't a weak league back then.
It's a bit of a joke that you seem to think that "Messi stats in La Liga" is by some means not a bloke playing in a weak league, though.
I don't know if anyone that have watched both play could say that Cristiano is better.
It's not all about stats or breaking records. It's what Ronaldo could do and the way he did it and the way it made you feel watching him do it.
It was beautiful and unmatched by any other footballer.
It's not all about stats or breaking records. It's what Ronaldo could do and the way he did it and the way it made you feel watching him do it.
It was beautiful and unmatched by any other footballer.
The argument that defenses were better and more conservative back then is valid up to a certain point. What I don't understand is if defenses today are weaker which makes it easier to score to a certain degree, why hasn't anybody else put up close to the kind of numbers Messi and Ronaldo have in the same era. No other player has even come close to their peak numbers, shouldn't it be easier to score for everybody else too?
La Liga is still a weak league in terms of its depth. Lots of good defenders and prolific strikers come from that league and look terrible in the PL.
I will risk it now and say; for us who watched original Ronaldo through his whole career, there is only one Ronaldo.
I don't care here for stats, titles and everything. Ronaldo was better player than Cristiano. Cristiano of course had better career.
I don't care here for stats, titles and everything. Ronaldo was better player than Cristiano. Cristiano of course had better career.
At that time Barca and Real were not miles and miles away from the rest of league like they are in Messi and Cristiano era. Also today refs protect best players. You touch Ronaldo or Messi and it is yellow.