Ronaldo Messi Swap Deal... Would you have it?

ilrm said:
Huge difference between ripping apart teams while playing for Barca, a system he understands rather than doing it for United. Also huge difference between playing City/Pool 2-4 times a year versus being roughed up 20 games a season by teams like West Ham, Stoke, Burnley, etc and still maintaining fitness.
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Messi is by far a finer footballer than anyone who has ever stepped on a pitch in the English league.

If you didn’t build a team around such a once in a lifetime player you would be an idiot as a manager.

Especially at his peak around 2012 time it was ridiculous. Pass Messi the ball was more than a valid tactic all his career basically. He’s still a better playmaker than anyone to this day in big games.

Smashed Madrid in the CL last season they couldn’t handle him and got through on dumb luck.

PSG he improved a tonne with him in the side. Towards the end of the season as expected he started to click so expect a big hear from him at PSG as expected for his talent.
 
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Yes, both for the novelty and to enjoy (from a distance) the meltdowns from their respective weirdo fan-clubs. Can't even have a relatively innocuous version of the discussion without them storming in with the "Ronaldo ruined us! / No shut up, Messi ruined PSG even more!" spiel.

I also think we'll see a resurgence from Messi very soon. He was the best player in the world all the way until the move to PSG, not going to start writing his obituary as an "elite" player just yet - I think you can allow him the benefit of the doubt for a stop-start season in a new league, after multiple fitness issues and also Covid. (yes, I also back Ronaldo to get back to playing at a much higher level than we saw in last season's shitshow of a United side)
 
Time has proved that even with player of his quality, a team would not be a able to beat another good team if one's pretty much a passenger.

Messi would not improve us by much. We will still get overrun by a solid and hardworking team.
 
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MrEleson said:
FKs are generally low conversion anyway. Missing a penalty is probably worth every 10 FK misses and Messi happened to miss what turned out to be PSG’s most important penalty of the season. I’d say that’s worth more than all of Ronaldo’s FKs misses this season (didn’t even take that many).

Also, didn’t Ronaldo score that game winner against Norwich from a FK? :smirk:
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And Ronaldo missed the biggest penalty of the season against a poor Middlesborough side in the FA cup, ruining United's best chance at a trophy. ;)
 
No, that little shrimp can't even hack it in the French league, how could he perform in the best (and most physical) league in the world at this stage of his career
 
Nope, it's like asking what Spice Girl I fancy the most. It's a discussion from the past.

We should be looking to bring through young, hungry attackers who will work in the system.

It's best all round for Ronaldo to leave this month.
 
Messi is incredible but I want us to have a proper team that has the cohesion to play together in a well implemented and progressive system. With 35/36 year olds no matter how good you need others to make up for your flaws.
 
Sheran18 said:
This year we finished first in the UCL Groups stage, thanks to Ronaldo scoring in every game, last year we finished third and we had to go to Europa League, so we got better with Ronaldo

PSG has won the league 7 times in the 9 years prior to Messi's arrival, so they didn't need him to win the league. PSG aren't paying Messi 40 millions to win a the Ligue 1, they are paying him all those millions to win the UCL, and the painful truth is that PSG played the UCL Final a year and a half before signing Messi, and now with Messi they got knocked out in the Round of 16, same thing happened in the France's Cup.

So whether you like it or not, Messi destroyed PSG and turned them into a worse team.
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Yeah, Juve won Serie A 8 years in a row and played 2 CL finals in the last 4 years prior to Ronaldo's arrival.
With Ronaldo, we had the worst season of the last 10 years barely making it to CL, got eliminated by minnows like 10-man Porto, Lyon and Ajax in the 2n round in CL.. At least, PSG lost to the eventual winners Real unlike Ronaldo's teams..

The guy is an ultimate team destroyer, set the bar higher at United this time leading United to the worst finish in PL in the last 32 years and losing to 2nd division Middlesbrough in OT missing a penalty:)) Oh, I forgot the thrashing by Liverpool 0-5 where he was trying to injure innocent players..
 
ilrm said:
In 4 out of the last 5 years, the PL has had a greater UEFA coefficient than La Liga. In the last 10 years their UEFA coefficients are nearly the same. So yes the PL is a yardstick for performance (40% more than Serie A and 76% more than Messi's Ligue 1). However the challenges are different in PL versus La Liga.
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Imagine thinking PL as the yardstick for performance league when Premier League teams combined won CL 6 times in the last 30 years same number Real won in the last 8 years alone and Europa League/UEFA Cup 4 times in the last 30 years (2 less than Sevilla alone) in the last 30 years. You probably meant PL is the strongest league "now", which I agree, but still PL teams fail badly in European competitions. I mean your top team City is shitting the bed every time in the CL, it became like a meme classic. Even in its strongest era, PL teams simply fail to dominate and win things.

Also, When was the last time a team not named Liverpool, United, Chelsea won something in Europe? I checked it for you, Tottenham in 83-84, embarrassing tbh..

Imagine thinking Premier League the top league when most stars' first choice is Spain (was Italy in the past) especially for Latin, South American stars. R9, Romario, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Roberto Carlos, Figo, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta must have all made a wrong decision staying in Spain and are unproven.

How many Ballon D'or winners did Premier League produce in the last 30 years?
2, Owen & Ronaldo..

ilrm said:
PL:
  • Harder playing surfaces (especially winter)
  • Packed schedules lead to fitness issues
  • Slippier surfaces due to rain/moisture lead to fitness issues
  • Rougher style of play leads to fitness issues
  • Fight for CL spots is more competitive (especially 2nd-4th position)
  • Colder weather leads to more muscle injuries
La Liga:
  • Top-3 spots guaranteed to go to same 3 teams (based on last 10 years)
  • Occasionally face a physical team like Cadiz/Celta but its mainly about ball possession & distribution so easier to maintain fitness
  • Schedules better spread out
  • Warmer/dryer weather leads to lesser injuries
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PL has been inferior to La Liga in terms of technique & tactics, and guess what 90% of the time technique & tactics trump high-tempo game. No wonder PL teams have a special interest in importing managers from other leagues like La Liga..
Messi has a special interest in Premier League teams scoring 27 goals in 35 games vs Ronaldo's 33 goals in 84 games, Messi and La Liga teams it seems does not seem to care about the tempo, fitness etc. they just beat their PL rivals with their superior technique and tactics.
La Liga's above average teams easily are better than PL's above average teams. Sevilla won EL 6 times even beating creme de la creme of PL like Liverpool. Villareal (beating PL 2nd United), Atletico, Valencia all won the EL finals in the last 20 years.

Also, PL is 2-horse race between City and Liverpool most times or 1-horse race basically City competing against itself winning PL 4 times in the last 5 years..

ilrm said:
Poorer version compared to who? The Zidane team? Of course every future Madrid team will look poorer compared to that team just like no recent Barca team can match up to Pep's Barca. Also - this is a Madrid under rebuild - so calling it 'poorer' is a very misleading term.


Vinicius/Benz/Valverde/Modric/Alaba would be starters in every team in the world.
Kroos/Rodrygo/Casemiro/Carvajal/Camavinga/Courtois/Mendy/Militao/Asensio and now Tchouameni/Rudiger would be at least squad members getting regular minutes in each and every team in the world. The PL big 3 were not beaten by a weak team.
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This is 36 year old Modric, 35 yo Benzema and other veterans carrying the team, this Real is significantly weaker than the previous version, they were in no way considered a big favorite to win it this year, favorites were PL teams, yet they got beaten by Real one by one..

You do not seem to get the main point though, this is the weakest CL era of the last 2 decades easily, Italian teams are weak, La Liga teams fell from grace, this is the moment where PL teams are supposed to dominate, yet, it's not happening, your teams only can win here and there. The only era where one can say English teams had clear superiority is late 70s and early 80s, and that's it..

ilrm said:
It's mainly Barca/Madrid/Atletico who were genuinely great teams during that period ... However, look at the league they play in today ... You think last year's Barca would have reached 2nd place in the PL? They wouldn't have even hit top-4. Same with Atletico.
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Today's La Liga is definitely weaker than PL, that's why it looks bad for PL teams that they cannot dominate CL, Europa League even in an era when competitors from other nations are at a low point..
 
This is why I don’t see Messi as the best of all time.

https://www.messivsronaldo.app/all-time-stats/vs-french-teams/

Absolutely has demolished French teams in the Champions league when playing for Barcelona.

But he moves outside of Barcelona and suddenly the French teams are harder.

It’s why just because he demolished English teams I will never believe he can demolish such teams when playing for one to the same level he did at Barcelona.

It was not that Messi was hard - it was that Barcelona was the hardest team to play against during the Pep/Enrique era and had left overs trailing under other managers due to them holding on to the “Barcelona way”.
 
genardk said:
You probably meant PL is the strongest league "now", which I agree,
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Obviously if I used the last 5 years data of UEFA coefficients, I mean as of recently.
genardk said:
Today's La Liga is definitely weaker than PL,
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Which has been exactly what I am saying. Thank you.
genardk said:
When was the last time a team not named Liverpool, United, Chelsea won something in Europe?
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English teams were hampered by Heysel for 6 years after Heysel. They became attractive to foreigners only beginning the early-00s when money came to the league.
Spanish teams who have won CL: RM, Barca
Spanish teams who have won Europa: Atletico, Sevilla, Villareal, Valencia
So 6 vs 3 ... you're speaking as if its a massive gap? And Sevilla/Villareal/Valencia need to win Europa to stay relevant, PL teams can just blow them away with money they offer.
 
He’d fit the ETH way of playing better than Ronaldo but still no.

These guys are way too big now and them moving around clubs isn’t going to yield what they want or what most clubs want in the long term. I get the feeling PSG are moving out of their Galactico phase and will try to be more like Bayern, and be the premier club to hoover up the diamonds from the large homegrown talent pool.
 
foolsgold said:
Nope, it's like asking what Spice Girl I fancy the most. It's a discussion from the past.

We should be looking to bring through young, hungry attackers who will work in the system.

It's best all round for Ronaldo to leave this month.
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Well....?
 
You’d have to be an idiot to sign either of them at this point. It’s a team sport, and they are not the best pieces anymore.
 
GreatDane said:
Well....?
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Used to be posh before all the work done, was quite pretty in her early 20s. Too much work done and looks like a skeleton

scary (Mel curly haired one) is just hard core for me

sporty bats for the other side

ginger is married to Horner and as an f1lewis fan that’s just a no go

cant go wrong with a bit of baby spice and has a lovely smile
 
I’d take Hakimi for Ronaldo. Messi will be another disaster waiting to happen.
He’d come in with his big PR, whilst on a on individual level he’ll be alright but everyone will be suffering by comparison.
Can’t wait for this Ronaldo circus to end. So won’t call for another one.
 
Bebestation said:
This is why I don’t see Messi as the best of all time.

https://www.messivsronaldo.app/all-time-stats/vs-french-teams/

Absolutely has demolished French teams in the Champions league when playing for Barcelona.

But he moves outside of Barcelona and suddenly the French teams are harder.

It’s why just because he demolished English teams I will never believe he can demolish such teams when playing for one to the same level he did at Barcelona.

It was not that Messi was hard - it was that Barcelona was the hardest team to play against during the Pep/Enrique era and had left overs trailing under other managers due to them holding on to the “Barcelona way”.
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Truly clueless.
 
Andrade said:
Truly clueless.
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He is not the best of times because at 35 he is struggling in a new league after being injured winning Copa América and two weeks of hard Covid. Fanatism sucks
 
ilrm said:
Obviously if I used the last 5 years data of UEFA coefficients, I mean as of recently.

Which has been exactly what I am saying. Thank you.

English teams were hampered by Heysel for 6 years after Heysel. They became attractive to foreigners only beginning the early-00s when money came to the league.
Spanish teams who have won CL: RM, Barca
Spanish teams who have won Europa: Atletico, Sevilla, Villareal, Valencia
So 6 vs 3 ... you're speaking as if its a massive gap? And Sevilla/Villareal/Valencia need to win Europa to stay relevant, PL teams can just blow them away with money they offer.
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What are you talking about?

The point is La Liga Tier 1 teams dominate CL where PL Teams traditionally fall short & Spanish tier 2 teams dominate Europa League where PL team Tier 2 teams are nowhere to be seen. Your Europe League winners are all tier-1 PL teams (Chelsea, Liverpool). It is insulting for a tier-1 La Liga team to fall that much to compete in Europa League.

The massive gap is the fact that:
since 2000, Tier 1 La Liga teams won CL 10 times in the last 20 years vs PL teams with 5 times. In the same period, Bayern alone had 3.
since 2020, Tier 2 La Liga teams won EL 10 times in the last 20 years vs PL "Tier 1" teams with 4 times. PL Tier 2 teams are useless.
Since 1990, La Liga players had 20 Ballon D'or wins whereas PL with 2, basically the same number as Ligue 1.

Also, you are giving me the impression of a guy who thinks Spanish, German, Italian fans care about PL that much, sorry to burst your bubble, they feel PL is an overhyped, overspending league that traditionally falls short in Europe.
 
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Ronaldo relies on pace and physicality more than Messi does. With aging, these attributes usually decline more swiftly than others.

So I think Messi will be the better of the two footballers for two or three more playing years these amazing footballers have in their bags.

So, yes, why not?
 
Pocho said:
He is not the best of times because at 35 he is struggling in a new league after being injured winning Copa América and two weeks of hard Covid. Fanatism sucks
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He struggled for ten months? :lol:

Yes, yes it does!
 
No thanks. Ronnie has a special place at United. Swapping him for his ‘rival’ would just be weird. In any case both are past their best and we should be looking forward. The last time I watched Messi he was an absolute shadow of the player he used to be. He was playing walking football.
 
For any club in Europe there isn’t really anything that Messi has done at PSG that makes paying his wages any more appealing than paying Ronaldo’s.
 
Judge Red said:
For any club in Europe there isn’t really anything that Messi has done at PSG that makes paying his wages any more appealing than paying Ronaldo’s.
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Well he shows up to training
 
No Man Utd doesn't need an advanced ancient pirlo.
 
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