Ronaldo leaving was the catalyst

Without wanting to defend Ronaldo, the media circus around him was toxic. We’ve had it in the past with Beckham and Rooney. Every time they don’t play, play, do anything the whole press conference is about them. Probably annoys other players too. Needed to get him out.

Ronaldo probably wanted the circus though. He wants it all to be about him.
 
Full record since Bruno joined
Played: 172
Won: 98 (57%)
Drawn: 37 (21.5%)
Lost: 37 (21.5%)

Record during Ronaldo's second spell
Played: 67
Won: 32 (47.8%)
Drawn: 14 (20.9%)
Lost: 21 (31.3%)

Record without Ronaldo at the club
Played: 105
Won: 66 (62.9%)
Drawn: 23 (21.9%)
Lost: 16 (15.2%)

Nice work. Could even argue the win percentage with him is lower since he wasn't anywhere near the squad for the couple of wins right before the WC. Even the pre season was going great until he decided to join the squad.

It's why I was very disappointed when the club/ETH were adamant on keeping in the summer. It was fairly obvious from his antics that he was way more trouble than he was worth. Thankfully he forced the club into a decision so we didn't have to endure the circus well into January.
 
had Ronaldo not allowed his arrogance to engulf him in mediocrity and instead accepted the role that ETH laid out for him as an impact sub -- and let's be honest, we're pretty short on strikers -- whether we might still be thriving as we are right now.
Ronaldo was impotent both on and off the pitch, selling him didn't improve the cohesion of the squad because they were already on their way there
I think you are both massively underestimating how much it must have shaken up the players to see 1. CR unceremoniously disposed of that way, 2. how his hubris landed him on a pile of money but total oblivion

You were around during Rangnick's semester right? We all wanted to get rid of every last one of them.
 
And of course, there's that absolute god Casemiro who can claim "5 times" but going about things in a completely different way.
 
Nice work. Could even argue the win percentage with him is lower since he wasn't anywhere near the squad for the couple of wins right before the WC. Even the pre season was going great until he decided to join the squad.

It's why I was very disappointed when the club/ETH were adamant on keeping in the summer. It was fairly obvious from his antics that he was way more trouble than he was worth. Thankfully he forced the club into a decision so we didn't have to endure the circus well into January.
Of course that was the public stance, but it seemed fairly well known that we'd be willing to look at any offers which came in. Hence why Ronaldo's agent spent the entire window running all around Europe trying to get a bidder. It's just that literally no club that Ronaldo would be willing to join at the time wanted him. Chelsea thought about it, but when the manager said he didn't want him they backed out. Nobody else had any interest, which continued a few months later and is why he is now playing in Saudi Arabia instead of Europe even when he was available on a free.

Hell, even the season before nobody really wanted him. He blatantly wanted to get out of Juventus but nobody showed any interest until late in the window when City realised they couldn't get Kane so figured they'd take Ronaldo for a year to tide them over until Haaland was available. We then jumped in as we felt we couldn't let him go to City, and the rest is history.
 
Appointing quality manager in his prime was the catalyst.

Basically this. Everything else is secondary. It’s not just Ronaldo leaving but the manner in which he left and ETH is the man behind that.

Had ETH not given Ronaldo a chance and from the start just binned him it might have gotten really messy but he made sure the whole fan base and team was behind him.
 
Basically this. Everything else is secondary. It’s not just Ronaldo leaving but the manner in which he left and ETH is the man behind that.

Had ETH not given Ronaldo a chance and from the start just binned him it might have gotten really messy but he made sure the whole fan base and team was behind him.

Similar to when Rooney was phased out later on. It was clear to everyone by then.
 
Of course that was the public stance, but it seemed fairly well known that we'd be willing to look at any offers which came in. Hence why Ronaldo's agent spent the entire window running all around Europe trying to get a bidder. It's just that literally no club that Ronaldo would be willing to join at the time wanted him. Chelsea thought about it, but when the manager said he didn't want him they backed out. Nobody else had any interest, which continued a few months later and is why he is now playing in Saudi Arabia instead of Europe even when he was available on a free.

Hell, even the season before nobody really wanted him. He blatantly wanted to get out of Juventus but nobody showed any interest until late in the window when City realised they couldn't get Kane so figured they'd take Ronaldo for a year to tide them over until Haaland was available. We then jumped in as we felt we couldn't let him go to City, and the rest is history.

I think the £200m a year might have been partly responsible too!
There's not a chance in hell some European teams weren't after him, just not the status or ability to pay even a 10th of that amount!
 
I think Ten Hags way of dealing with Ronaldo was a huge catalyst. He showed everyone who was boss, the players, the supporters, the owners, the pundits, Ex players, ex managers etc.

The players fell in line pretty quickly, the rest followed at varying degrees, but what is very apparent now is everyone believes in Ten Hag as witnessed by Stam, Evra, Scholes, Keane, Ferdinand, Van Persie all praising him.

I really appreciate Ten Hag for not holding grudges against the ex players for some of their early punditry and loyalty to Ronaldo.

He knew better, he didn’t have to but having all those players around the squad and stadium on matches is good for the fans but also a little intimidating to opposing players. It adds to the fortress he is creating.
 
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Yet more evidence in favour of what we can do when all the players fight for each other and not to appease a Portuguese has-been.

There is a freedom our attackers are playing with that we had not witnessed earlier in the season. Barca’s defenders were terrified. I also guarantee that Rashford would not be in this rich vein of form if CR61 was still at the club.

Thank you Piers Morgan!!

In 2005-06, RvN got injured and Saha replaced him. Thereafter, United played great football, began to (sort of) challenge Chelsea for the title and, next season, went on a dominate three year run of PL titles and a couple CL Final appearances. RvN being left out of the side, and then sold, coincided with Keane leaving and being replaced by Carrick, Scholes returning from injury, Vidic and Evra arriving, Rio raising his game even further, Rooney and Ronaldo becoming world class and Saha coming into form, all reasons why the team won the PL in 2006-07.

RvN leaving wasn't the sole reason why the club recovered, but United played with far more tactical flexibility and there was fluidity to the play. It went from pretty rigid play to a team being able to score quickly from attacks that began anywhere on the pitch. There were also stories that RvN and Keane leaving allowed players like Ronaldo and Rooney to flourish because before, they would often be scolded for trying something creative on the pitch and losing the ball. RvN was not the sole reason, but it altered the way the club played so drastically.

Ronaldo leaving did for Rashford what RvN did for Ronaldo
 
Bringing Ronaldo in to begin with disrupted everything - Utd still managed to finish 3rd and 2nd in the two seasons prior to his arrival under Ole, then suddenly they fell to 6th.

He completely screwed up the dressing room dynamic, the Rashford - Martial chemistry, and Fernandes' positive influence on the team.

In a roundabout way it encouraged Utd to appoint ten Hag, which is a positive, but I don't think Ronaldo was even Ole's signing to begin with so it was a tad harsh on him.
 
In 2005-06, RvN got injured and Saha replaced him. Thereafter, United played great football, began to (sort of) challenge Chelsea for the title and, next season, went on a dominate three year run of PL titles and a couple CL Final appearances. RvN being left out of the side, and then sold, coincided with Keane leaving and being replaced by Carrick, Scholes returning from injury, Vidic and Evra arriving, Rio raising his game even further, Rooney and Ronaldo becoming world class and Saha coming into form, all reasons why the team won the PL in 2006-07.

RvN leaving wasn't the sole reason why the club recovered, but United played with far more tactical flexibility and there was fluidity to the play. It went from pretty rigid play to a team being able to score quickly from attacks that began anywhere on the pitch. There were also stories that RvN and Keane leaving allowed players like Ronaldo and Rooney to flourish because before, they would often be scolded for trying something creative on the pitch and losing the ball. RvN was not the sole reason, but it altered the way the club played so drastically.

Ronaldo leaving did for Rashford what RvN did for Ronaldo

Agree with more or less all your points. That is exactly how I remember and see the times, events and changes you describe.
 
In a roundabout way it encouraged Utd to appoint ten Hag, which is a positive, but I don't think Ronaldo was even Ole's signing to begin with so it was a tad harsh on him.

It was coming anyway, but buying Ronaldo was the moment when commercial decisions so badly disrupted the football operation that it began a cascading collapse. After that the entire Glazer business model of a yes man manager unravelled and the on-pitch inadaquacies became unsustainable, making a football first rebuild unavoidable.

A non competitive Superleague was the only off ramp from reprioritising the decision making structure and then paying what was needed to make the club functional again. That got shut down by the fans. This and higher interest rates (thanks Putin) finally did for the Glazers.
 
Appointing a quality manager in his prime was the catalyst.

A catalyst implies that something or someone precipitates an outcome that was already expected in the first place.

The club's situation had already reached rock bottom. Ten Haag came to change the trajectory, but in his first two matches, it seems like things could still get worse.

Then he dropped Maguire and Ronaldo, who were nowhere to be found on the bench, and we beat Arsenal. Things got better after that. But...

...we still lack cohesion. City beats us to the ground. Our journey in Europe was not really convincing when Ronaldo played.

The final nail in Ronaldo's coffin was when he left the bench during Tottenham's game and refused to come. I think Ten Haag at that time has already decided that Ronaldo will be involved no more than as a squad player, and he wants to test Ronaldo's willingness to accept his new role by bringing him on in the match's final minutes.

The rest is history. Garnacho's goal, followed by Piers Morgan's interview, and finally, his exit.

So, yes, Ronaldo's leaving was the catalyst. Ten Haag has set the course of our club, but it was accelerated by the situation with Ronaldo. It allowed our best players, Rashford and Bruno, to fully express themselves.

It's not the only catalyst, mind you. Dropping Maguire is also quite important. It allows other players who are more competent than Maguire, such as Varane, Licha, Case, and Bruno, to resume the leadership role on the pitch, although maybe it is a technical decision more than anything.
 
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In 2005-06, RvN got injured and Saha replaced him. Thereafter, United played great football, began to (sort of) challenge Chelsea for the title and, next season, went on a dominate three year run of PL titles and a couple CL Final appearances. RvN being left out of the side, and then sold, coincided with Keane leaving and being replaced by Carrick, Scholes returning from injury, Vidic and Evra arriving, Rio raising his game even further, Rooney and Ronaldo becoming world class and Saha coming into form, all reasons why the team won the PL in 2006-07.

RvN leaving wasn't the sole reason why the club recovered, but United played with far more tactical flexibility and there was fluidity to the play. It went from pretty rigid play to a team being able to score quickly from attacks that began anywhere on the pitch. There were also stories that RvN and Keane leaving allowed players like Ronaldo and Rooney to flourish because before, they would often be scolded for trying something creative on the pitch and losing the ball. RvN was not the sole reason, but it altered the way the club played so drastically.

Ronaldo leaving did for Rashford what RvN did for Ronaldo
Good post.
 
I think the £200m a year might have been partly responsible too!
There's not a chance in hell some European teams weren't after him, just not the status or ability to pay even a 10th of that amount!
If he'd been willing to act as a squad player and to seriously drop his wage demands from what we were paying him, of course some European teams would have been interested. But he wasn't willing to act as a squad player, and he wasn't willing to take a wage remotely close to what his current level deserved. So no, there was not a single team in Europe who wanted him. It was embarrassingly clear while Jorge Mendes spent the entire window desperately flying back and forwards all over Europe trying to drum up some interest.

If the Saudi's hadn't come in he might ultimately have been forced to put his tail between his legs and accept an offer which was more fitting. But they weren't the reason nobody else was interested; that was purely down to Ronaldo's ego and demands compared to his current level on the field.
 
In 2005-06, RvN got injured and Saha replaced him. Thereafter, United played great football, began to (sort of) challenge Chelsea for the title and, next season, went on a dominate three year run of PL titles and a couple CL Final appearances. RvN being left out of the side, and then sold, coincided with Keane leaving and being replaced by Carrick, Scholes returning from injury, Vidic and Evra arriving, Rio raising his game even further, Rooney and Ronaldo becoming world class and Saha coming into form, all reasons why the team won the PL in 2006-07.

RvN leaving wasn't the sole reason why the club recovered, but United played with far more tactical flexibility and there was fluidity to the play. It went from pretty rigid play to a team being able to score quickly from attacks that began anywhere on the pitch. There were also stories that RvN and Keane leaving allowed players like Ronaldo and Rooney to flourish because before, they would often be scolded for trying something creative on the pitch and losing the ball. RvN was not the sole reason, but it altered the way the club played so drastically.

Ronaldo leaving did for Rashford what RvN did for Ronaldo

It's been said that our league Cup win in 2005-06 was the catalyst for the period of domination that followed. Hopefully history repeats itself! :devil:
 
I wouldn't think Ronaldo leaving was the main catalyst for the change in form but it definitely helped get rid of the noise around the squad.
The reason we're in the position at the moment is eth has been allowed to implement his process. If you had read up on ETH before he came into the job you would have seen this coming. He's a builder of teams, a genius that we were lucky to get. Fun times are ahead.
 
I wouldn't think Ronaldo leaving was the main catalyst for the change in form but it definitely helped get rid of the noise around the squad.
The reason we're in the position at the moment is eth has been allowed to implement his process. If you had read up on ETH before he came into the job you would have seen this coming. He's a builder of teams, a genius that we were lucky to get. Fun times are ahead.
With him in the squad, we'd never bring in Weghorst and Martial and Rashford would be scoring less. Weghorst's contributions are not spectacular but better than what Ronaldo can do especially in Ten Hag's team. Ronaldo would be jogging around and Bruno will always pass the ball to him.. not to mention the unnecessary dramas that would disrupt the squad's mood. Him leaving is a catalyst, there's no doubt about that, it fasten the process to implement what Ten Hag wants in matches than having to play him because he's a star and get paid stupid amount of money every week.
 
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Or Ronaldo's arriving is the catalyst?

Without Ronaldo would we still sack Ole and appoint ETH?
 
Sacrificed himself for the best of United. He singlehandedly turned the season around for us. That is what GOATs do. text
 
A catalyst implies that something or someone precipitates an outcome that was already expected in the first place.
ETH was the first manager that we hired who was generally at his peak and not a has been or a completely unknown. So when we consider this I think many would've expected to turn it around.
The club's situation had already reached rock bottom. Ten Haag came to change the trajectory, but in his first two matches, it seems like things could still get worse.
It were just two games. They we responded with 4 straight wins overcoming Arsenal and Liverpool on the trot. They weren't really indicative that he's going to fail as normally it takes time to build the foundations. We saw it with Klopp at Liverpool for example.

Then he dropped Maguire and Ronaldo, who were nowhere to be found on the bench, and we beat Arsenal. Things got better after that. But...

...we still lack cohesion. City beats us to the ground. Our journey in Europe was not really convincing when Ronaldo played.

The final nail in Ronaldo's coffin was when he left the bench during Tottenham's game and refused to come. I think Ten Haag at that time has already decided that Ronaldo will be involved no more than as a squad player, and he wants to test Ronaldo's willingness to accept his new role by bringing him on in the match's final minutes.

The rest is history. Garnacho's goal, followed by Piers Morgan's interview, and finally, his exit.

So, yes, Ronaldo's leaving was the catalyst. Ten Haag has set the course of our club, but it was accelerated by the situation with Ronaldo. It allowed our best players, Rashford and Bruno, to fully express themselves.

It's not the only catalyst, mind you. Dropping Maguire is also quite important. It allows other players who are more competent than Maguire, such as Varane, Licha, Case, and Bruno, to resume the leadership role on the pitch, although maybe it is a technical decision more than anything.

All of this that you mentioned it's down to ETH. No one before had the balls to drop the biggest player/ego on the team( maybe Jose with Pogba). The way he handled all those situations is what led to the success we're experiencing now.

It's of course upward trajectory and there is a lot to do and really we haven't won anything yet, so as expected there will be up and downs along the way.

The catalyst as we say is purely down to hiring a quality manager as this is something we lacked since Fergie. Many fans really underestimated the importance of the manager and we wasted almost a decade hiring wrong men for the job.

Liverpool is a prime example of a club in exile that only came forth with making the right choice in terms of a manager. We're experiencing the same now with ETH despite having the same shite ownership.
 
At this point, we are arguing over what "catalyst" means, and that is not a hill I want to die on.

ETH was the first manager that we hired who was generally at his peak and not a has been or a completely unknown. So when we consider this I think many would've expected to turn it around.

So, you did agree that EtH would turn things around from the beginning.

Ronaldo's exit being a catalyst means that his situation accelerated the rebuilding job that we expect Ten Haag to fulfill.

Initially, I think Ten Haag considered Ronaldo an important player for his new club. After all, he was our leading scorer last season. However, after he learned the ins and outs of the club, the dynamics between players, and how Ronaldo responded to his tactical requirements, it was clear to him that he was not that important.

But the season had already started. Murtough was not going to let Ronaldo leave for a pittance while still paying his massive salary, and the club appeared to be at a loss for a replacement. Ten Haag hands was tied to a situation that is not ideal, but he carried on by doing what he knows best: managing a team.
 
Or Ronaldo's arriving is the catalyst?

Without Ronaldo would we still sack Ole and appoint ETH?

Exactly. Before Ronaldo, Ole had achieved stable spurs-ish mediocrity. His arrival triggered a cascading collapse of the entire ramshackle football structure. His departure was irrelevant as he was already a sulking substitute whose minutes were dimishing to single figures.
 
I think Ronnie knew his time was up at the club. He knew deep down he was holding us back. Especially Bruno.

Funny how things come full circle. 20 years ago it was RVN who had to make way for him to flourish. 20 years on and it’s his turn to play the “villain”.
Rubbish. It is obvious he was only out for himself.
 
Ronaldo was an inconvenience that everybody at the club would have been glad to see the back of. With him gone the final remnant of the toxic black cloud that hung over the dressing room was removed, and now, unsurprisingly, we resemble a professional and hard working team. His leaving wasn't the catalyst - hiring Ten Hag was - but removing the biggest egotistical bellend in football certainly helped to improve the mood
 
Sacrificed himself for the best of United. He singlehandedly turned the season around for us. That is what GOATs do. text

Amen. Pessi could never, bled Barca dry for years. I bet he gives a good chunk of the £200m to United in the future to help us as well.
 
People blame Ronaldo for last season but I think Rashford's short term decline after his back injury played a much bigger part. Ronaldo was awful this season, but he was arguably still one of our best players last season.
 
People blame Ronaldo for last season but I think Rashford's short term decline after his back injury played a much bigger part. Ronaldo was awful this season, but he was arguably still one of our best players last season.

I don't know who blames Ronaldo for last season.
There were multiple villains last season for the fiasco that happened but Ronaldo is not one of them.
 
Well in all honesty I was never his fanboy (even back from 04 to 09) but I do think he could have been a great addition had he accepteted his diminishing role like Scholes and Giggs did. Sadly it wasn't to be
 
Bringing Ronaldo in to begin with disrupted everything - Utd still managed to finish 3rd and 2nd in the two seasons prior to his arrival under Ole, then suddenly they fell to 6th.

He completely screwed up the dressing room dynamic, the Rashford - Martial chemistry, and Fernandes' positive influence on the team.

In a roundabout way it encouraged Utd to appoint ten Hag, which is a positive, but I don't think Ronaldo was even Ole's signing to begin with so it was a tad harsh on him.
You can see this in Ole's body language in the press conference after Ronaldo's signing. It was quite obvious to me that he's forcing himself to feel ecstatic while he's really isn't convinced of this whole signing.
 
People blame Ronaldo for last season but I think Rashford's short term decline after his back injury played a much bigger part. Ronaldo was awful this season, but he was arguably still one of our best players last season.

Yeah people say Ronaldo was the focal point of the attack and took goals away from rashford, but rashford couldn't even beat a man or hit a shot on target at times last year, that wasn't Ronaldo that stopped him being able to do basic things.

Not to mention I'm not a huge fan or xG but Ronaldo's was 17 or so in the PL and he scored 18, so the idea that the team was creating constant chances for him is an invention by people who don't like him.
 
If United go on and win this Carabou Cup, will Ronaldo get a medal, did he play in any games in early rounds?