Oh shut up you gimp, I was taking the piss. We are all entitled to favour whoever we want, I'd just say that the majority of people would prefer to watch Ronaldinho.
Ronaldinho
- Thread starter Raoul
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I would take Ronaldinho instead of Cleverley for a couple of seasons, 45 minutes per match.
Until we decide to sort out our midfield.
Interesting experiment, all great footballers could adapt, and playing in the middle of the pitch with less running around could be exciting...
Until we decide to sort out our midfield.
Interesting experiment, all great footballers could adapt, and playing in the middle of the pitch with less running around could be exciting...
Get Messi the feck out of this thread
Players do more running in central midfield than any other position.
His performance v Madrid in 2005 remains one of the greatest I have ever seen. Took the absolute piss out of them.
Middle of the pitch and less running dont really add up. He was never a CM either and now isnt the time to adapt.
Not sure who has been the greatest talent or not in modern football, but without a doubt, Ronaldinho was the most exciting to watch. His skills with the ball, pace and ridiculous dribbles made him more entertaining to watch than anyone else. A young Giggs was also brilliant to watch, at his best, but no one could dribble like Ronaldinho, imo. Messi is probably a better all time great, but I do think that Ronaldinho could pull off greater things than Messi still. This is probably not something new, just offering my two cents and all that 
Yeah, but Messi was better in 2009
This is my favorite goal of his, scored vs Guingamp, the way he flicks it over the first defender is ridiculous.
Agree with the Don. This debate reminds me of the 'Boring Barca' (sth along the lines) thread some time ago. Got told I had hole in my soul and knew nothing about footie just because I didn't find 09-11 Barca exciting and preferred United's/Bayern's way of play easily. One of the greatest sides ever, yes, but do they have to excite you? Juve was a brilliant side in mid to late 90s yet you didn't have to particularly like their style.
The same applies to Messi or Ronaldo. See nothing wrong in suggesting Ronaldinho was a better entertainer. Not as good as they currently are, but aesthetically speaking his game was sublime. Is the difference between quality and entertainment so hard to grasp? In terms of pure 'wow' moments, Ronaldinho is still the king for me. Messi and Ronaldo are the perfect machines that you can expect just about anything from nowadays.
The same applies to Messi or Ronaldo. See nothing wrong in suggesting Ronaldinho was a better entertainer. Not as good as they currently are, but aesthetically speaking his game was sublime. Is the difference between quality and entertainment so hard to grasp? In terms of pure 'wow' moments, Ronaldinho is still the king for me. Messi and Ronaldo are the perfect machines that you can expect just about anything from nowadays.
I think part of the reason there are so many disagreements here is because everyone has a different definition of dribble. In terms of pure dribbling (running with the ball at speed having the ball stay extremely close to the feet without the use of 'skill moves' like the elastico or roulette), beating a man and weaving in and out of defenders while on the run, Messi is infinitely better - he is in the George Best, Diego Maradona league when it comes to that, & Ronaldinho is just one tier below. I don't understand how anyone can dispute this. However, when it comes to beating a man with a specific 'piece' of skill, for lack of a better word, Ronaldinho is the greatest ever. He has no peers. At a stand still at the corner flag, or with himself surrounded, he will do an elastico or hocus pocus & leave the defender(s) pinching themselves, to see if they really just witnessed what they did - Messi, on the other hand, uses no flash or flair when it comes to keeping the ball. Messi will take on an army of men just running past them with his unmatched ability to run with the ball at speed with it so close to his feet, using his feints & body movements to go past them, which for me is what a pure dribble is. Ronaldinho uses his unbelievably, incomprehensibly large, never-ending repertoire of tricks to get out of a tight spot. I've watched hours of footage from players before my time & from today, & I just don't think anyone is within a million miles of him when it comes to that. So unpredictable, so inventive. It's ridiculous.
While Messi is a better player through ruthless effectiveness, consistency, the fact that he turned up in his CL Finals, and better dribbling (pure running at speed with the ball glued to the feet using feints to beat men), Ronaldinho, is the most unique player I have ever seen, & had a style like no other. He was gifted by God with a sheer control of the ball never seen before (greater than Messi's & co), a spontaneity & flair that made the impossible possible, & the unexpected expected. As talented as Messi is, he is also the player he is because of his brilliant making-of-runs, positioning, intelligence & his ability to use his teammates (the Barca system) to full effect, which he himself deserves a lot of credit for. Ronaldinho was so raw & uncut, all about the talent, the smile & the dancing feet. His touch is in a league of it's own.
Messi is the better player of the two, but Ronaldinho is the most talented footballer to have ever played the game - no doubt.
While Messi is a better player through ruthless effectiveness, consistency, the fact that he turned up in his CL Finals, and better dribbling (pure running at speed with the ball glued to the feet using feints to beat men), Ronaldinho, is the most unique player I have ever seen, & had a style like no other. He was gifted by God with a sheer control of the ball never seen before (greater than Messi's & co), a spontaneity & flair that made the impossible possible, & the unexpected expected. As talented as Messi is, he is also the player he is because of his brilliant making-of-runs, positioning, intelligence & his ability to use his teammates (the Barca system) to full effect, which he himself deserves a lot of credit for. Ronaldinho was so raw & uncut, all about the talent, the smile & the dancing feet. His touch is in a league of it's own.
Messi is the better player of the two, but Ronaldinho is the most talented footballer to have ever played the game - no doubt.
Seriously when Barca had the trio of Eto'o, Henry and Messi is when they played some of the best football ever. They were breathtaking on form.
When players are being rumoured to transfer, SSN choose a single moment in their career, be it a great goal or whatever, and repeat it literally at least five million times an hour. This goal was Ronaldinho's moment back in 2003. Another example was Tevez's goal on the final day of the season at Old Trafford, when he bulldozed through United's defence with a bit of luck, and then clinically guided the ball past the goalkeeper and saved West Ham's season. My favourite of all time though was Alexis Sanchez when he was leaving Udinese in 2011, when SSN had a never-ending loop of him attempting to beat a full back by doing about a hundred of the worst step overs ever recorded before proceeding to just boot the ball straight out of play.
Just catching up on the thread. One thing I have noticed is Messi's ability is taken for granted. Ronaldinho is the more skilful of the two but more skill = better player is not necessarily true, which is what some of you seem to think. Isn't the better player the one who is more of a threat on the pitch and is more productive? When it comes to Messi and C.Ronaldo the fact that they do the amazing so often has made us take them for granted. Messi is an amazing dribbler a better traditional dribbler than Ronaldinho, while Ronaldinho has skills Messi couldn't think of replicating. I can see why someone would prefer Ronaldinho, his character, the way he played the game made him so likeable, while Messi while most can acknowledge is one of the greatest players ever I don't think he is particularly likeable. That plays a part in any assessment of the players.
'He's going to beat two, three players and curl it in on his left foot from the edge of the box' there seemed to be a time almost all Messi's goals were like this. He makes the remarkable look easy, the goals he scores and the things he does on the pitch are not ordinary but he does them so often we have become so used to them. The clips Brwned put up are amazing in themselves but that is the sort of thing Messi does every week. The way The Don dismissed them just goes to prove my point.
'He's going to beat two, three players and curl it in on his left foot from the edge of the box' there seemed to be a time almost all Messi's goals were like this. He makes the remarkable look easy, the goals he scores and the things he does on the pitch are not ordinary but he does them so often we have become so used to them. The clips Brwned put up are amazing in themselves but that is the sort of thing Messi does every week. The way The Don dismissed them just goes to prove my point.
Messi is just more consistent. But there is no way he is in Ronaldinho's league in terms of pure natural skill being primed for entertainment value. Messi is liek the ultimate text book player. He does things simply but to the highest degree. Kinda what Zidane was good at , yet at a quicker and even higher level.
I shudder to think what could have happened if the current Messi had been playing alongside a motivated and fully focused Ronaldinho.
The pleasure is all mine for its pure privilege to even post it.
I definitely think you got the wrong end of what people were trying to get at here. I think everyone here all agrees that Messi is the better player, what everyone is arguing about is who is more entertaining to watch, not a tussle between being the greatest of all time or anything. Do they see Messi's close control and dribbling more entertaining where he beats 4 or 5 people to score, or Ronaldinho's elasticos and stepovers as more entertaining? Some people have different likes and opinions or a more skillful player, and the argument here is to which is defined as the more skillful. The real answer is you can't separare by just saying one is more skillful than the other just like that, but you can definitely say Messi is better at pure dribbling and beating his man, whilst Ronaldo is better at beating his man through skills alone.
Zidane had skill not to Ronaldinho's level but I have seen him show ridiculous flashes of skill and close control. People say Messi is 'just' more consistent like it is a bad thing. Messi has been a more superior player than Ronaldinho was and for a longer period of time. Ronaldinho had a lot of trick's and skill and for his time he was amazing. Messi's ability to beat players and score all types of goals is entertainment itself. The fact that he does it all the time has made it lose it's value. I don't see how the way Messi plays is not entertaining. NOBODY can do what he does.
I guess it comes down what you like to see. I appreciate Ronaldinho's skills and tricks. But Messi has cut out the needless to be a ruthless machine who is goal is to inflict the most damage on opponents. Ronaldinho will always be loved because of how he played but he is not far ahead of Messi in terms of skills and I would say Messi is the better dribbler.
Ahh okay. I tried to address that in my last post. But I will just reiterate. I feel Messi is the more entertaining player of the two what he does on the pitch is amazing and entertaining. Ronaldinho was amazing at his peak his love for the game was infectious and you remember his smile as much as the tricks. I would much rather watch Messi's best highlights. I guess the reason we have lost appreciation of that is because we see it every week. I agree with that also. It comes down to what you like to see.
There you have it folks a ruthless machine vs an enigmatic entertainer.
feck robot football.
feck robot football.
Ronaldinho is easily my favorite non-United player of all time. He is the only player I have ever desperately wanted and got excited about possibly signing.
Not even the Cristiano Ronaldo rumors in the Summer just gone could get me as excited as the Ronaldinho ones from back in the day. Well actually they didn't get me excited at all because I knew they were horse shit.. But still..
Not even the Cristiano Ronaldo rumors in the Summer just gone could get me as excited as the Ronaldinho ones from back in the day. Well actually they didn't get me excited at all because I knew they were horse shit.. But still..
I see your point. But he can only play how he play. Messi can't become Ronaldinho if he wanted to and vice versa. Would you rather Ronaldinho's 2-3 year peak or Messi's 5 years and counting? I feel the same way to an extent but Messi and Ronaldo also are great to watch. If they were less consistent some people would like them more I believe.
Kenyon is a cnut.
If somebody asked me, "why do you love football?" I would show them this video. This is everything good about football IMO.
I don't believe consistency comes into this. It's predictability. Messi is just so predictable. Every single dribble is a carbon copy of the last.
As for your other point, well its moot, I think. If we have Ronaldinho or Messi in our team, I think we'd have the same amount of success. Messi would probably score more goals, if the team was set up around him, like at barca but Ronaldinho would be much more entertaining and considering scoring goals was never our problem, would bring just as much success.
It's a shame we'll probably never see anything like it again in our life time. I struggle to post in this thread or about Ronaldinho at times because I'm often lost for words when trying to explain how damn good he was and how much I loved him as a footballer. Watching these videos almost bring a bloody tear to the eyes it's that special
I don't think I'll ever forget the level of disappointment when we missed out. Probably my first, earliest muppet target. I spent hours a day checking teletext etc. I watched his last game for PSG and remember checking teletext at full time, the top headline being that we were trying to sign him. Christ, I nearly exploded. Peter Kenyon the fecking cnut.
I don't think I'll ever forget the level of disappointment when we missed out. Probably my first, earliest muppet target. I spent hours a day checking teletext etc. I watched his last game for PSG and remember checking teletext at full time, the top headline being that we were trying to sign him. Christ, I nearly exploded. Peter Kenyon the fecking cnut.
Ronaldinho single handedly destroying Madrid and getting a standing ovation from their fans
Also, the time when he used his back to control/slow the ball down as it goes over him and runs onto it shows his footballing brain and natural talent. I tried for about 2 years to replicate it, eventually did and felt like god for the next few weeks.
Also, the time when he used his back to control/slow the ball down as it goes over him and runs onto it shows his footballing brain and natural talent. I tried for about 2 years to replicate it, eventually did and felt like god for the next few weeks.
I used to love watching this lad. Played the game with a huge smile and was very skillful. Made me want to try some of his tricks even though I've the skill of a donkey coupled with the balance of Bambi on ice!
I can never get tired of him beating players for fun which is what Messi does. He scores amazing goals and cuts through teams consistently. The only reason you consider that boring is because he does it all the time. Ronaldinho does a lot of tricks while being less effective and I guess that is what you like to see. If we swapped Ronaldinho for Messi in this team we would not win as many trophies that I disagree with strongly. Ronaldinho's Barca were more entertaining but they were easier to beat. When you can bring together style and winning it is great few teams have doe that as well as Messi's Barca.
Yeah, I'm talking about Barca post Eto'o and Henry (Henry left in 2010) so maybe 2010-12 Barca.
Seriously when Barca had the trio of Eto'o, Henry and Messi is when they played some of the best football ever. They were breathtaking on form.
Ronaldinho's Barca were easier to beat because they were nowhere near as good as the team Messi plays with. Iniesta was only just breaking through, Xavi wasn't the player he is today (and iirc he was injured for most of the season when they won the CL) and Guardiola is a better manager than Rijkard.
They weren't as solid either. Guardiola had better players than Rijkaard so hard to say who the better manager is. I agree with you on most other points but that Ronaldinho team was one of the top 5-10 team's of the last 10 years. Messi is the difference for this team and even more so these days.
What I am saying is put Ronaldinho in place of Messi in the Guardiola era and they would have still been brilliant. The Barca team of old being more beatable had nothing to do with Ronaldinho's ability and more to do with the gap in class between the Bara midfield of then and now.
Barca with Ronaldinho instead of Messi would always need a quality striker in front of them, not only better , more solid midfield. Messi fetches you at least twice the number of goals Ronaldinho would and neither Xavi nor Iniesta have ever been known for their goalscoring ability.