Ronaldinho

Enigma_87 said:
Messi can go on and be a legend in football, bigger than Ronaldinho if he keeps his level for like another 4-5 years. But, IMO, he could never be the same artist as Ronnie on the pitch.

Messi's height, his acceleration and pace is advantage over Ronaldinho. Ronnie didn't have the same start as fat Ronaldo and Messi. He didn't rely on pace or acceleration to go past his opponent. If you have to man mark him it's tougher IMO as when in his prime, he'd still find a way to go past you. You can't think only of the traditional things, Ronaldinho had extraordinary style, alike Ronaldo. As for Messi the thing is - you simply know what he's gonna do, picking one direction with his steering type of dribbling, yet you can't do anything about it.

However English sides has proved to handle Messi well in the past. Ronaldinho simply destroyed any opposition in his best years - Italian defence(Milan), English(Chavs), Spanish(Madrid)...

In the end Messi probably would go down as the better player and would achieve more, but for me he doesn't have that rare "magic" that someone produces once in a while(read like Bergkamp against Newcastle, or Ronnie occasionaly).
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Good post
 
Boss said:
I don't know why they don't have a better angle, but he gave this pass in the Semi Final and it carved Milan's defence

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he had an even better against Real when he was near the middle of the pitch and blasted like 30-40 yards no look pass right on Eto'o foot in the box.

I'll try to find a video.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
I remember that game against Milan - some true rape moments in that, incredible.

What's happened to Ludovic Guily anyone?
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He's happily preparing his retirement while playing for PSG in France with his buddy Makelele.He's finished but they keep extending his contract and he keep earning some money.
 
Boss said:
That's why, as good as he is for Milan, it's still pretty sad watching when you remember what he used to be, mainly because it's mostly his own fault.

This was truly his last game on top of the World

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That assist is :eek:
 
kouroux said:
He's happily preparing his retirement while playing for PSG in France with his buddy Makelele.He's finished but they keep extending his contract and he keep earning some money.
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How come he only played 17 times for France Kouroux? I'd have thought he'd have got more games between Djorkaeff's time and Ribery now on the right for them?
 
BaldwinLegend said:
How come he only played 17 times for France Kouroux? I'd have thought he'd have got more games between Djorkaeff's time and Ribery now on the right for them?
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I don't know tbh, like you said there was a time where France was desperate for someone on the right wing to perform (there was Govou who used to be good but that's it).I don't wanna give false answers so I'll just say I have no idea.
 
Boss said:
It was possibly the sexiest assist ever

How the feck do you get involved in a wrestling match with Gattuso, and then have the calmness and vision to split the defence like that

Nobody could keep up with his footballing brain, Milan didn't know what the feck just happened
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I also invite to watch this one at 03:48 with his left foot (plus check out the defender obstructs him @ 02:11 :lol:)


Plus the nutmeg @ 00:47 (total pwnage)
 
BaldwinLegend said:
Brilliant description that bold bit.

This is what worries me about football nowadays - you see less and less instinct, vision, class or magic and the leading lights of the game now seem to be 'direct and efficient' as you say... Guys like Ronaldo and Messi are great tools for managers to use (stick them on the pitch, wind them up and watch them go...) but seem to lack the initiative to dominate games on their own.

I think this is definitely why they all fizzled out at the World Cup. They flourish for their club teams which are built around them, but put Messi or Ronaldo in a new environment, new team, against teams prepared to play very negatively against them and they struggle as they don't have the craft to call upon that previous generations did. I think players now seem to have initiative coached out of them in favour of pure athleticism and efficiency. Rooney is perhaps the best example - incredible at Euro 2004 when he hadn't a fecking clue what he was doing or how he was doing it but completely and utterly hopeless in 2010 when he's had that insane instinct messed around with... I understand that had to happen for the sake of his PL career but it's to England's loss - he'll always struggle to make the impact he could have on the international stage.
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Great post that mate.
 

Just to add up - most of the time the only way to get the ball off Messi is to foul him.

However @ 1:09 it didn't seem to work with Ronaldinho. Somebody count the fouls on him in those 5-6 seconds. :lol:
 
At the risk of sounding a bit soft there's something refreshing about seeing these Ronaldinho clips after a World Cup that for me has disappointed in so many ways, mainly highlighting what's wrong with football and the lack of will to do something about it. Ronaldinho in his prime was everything that is right. like Giggs, like Scholes, like Zidane, like George Best and all the other players who are and were a pure joy to watch in their prime.
 
Ronaldinho and Eto'o.. what a sensational pairing, I miss watching them two in tandem.
 
The real crime is that we'll never see Ronaldinho,Messi and Eto'o at the top of their game together but at the same time it would have been unfair on the other teams.
 
Raees said:
Ronaldinho and Eto'o.. what a sensational pairing, I miss watching them two in tandem.
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I know we're all going to be biased after watching all these Ronaldinho videos but do people here rate Messi's Barca ahead of Ronaldinho's? Often seems the press do but I don't think the current lot come close to the previous generation when Ronaldinho and Eto'o were at their best...
 
The Caveman said:
At the risk of sounding a bit soft there's something refreshing about seeing these Ronaldinho clips after a World Cup that for me has disappointed in so many ways, mainly highlighting what's wrong with football and the lack of will to do something about it. Ronaldinho in his prime was everything that is right. like Giggs, like Scholes, like Zidane, like George Best and all the other players who are and were a pure joy to watch in their prime.
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may add Bergkamp to that list, especially since you mentioned WC. That goal against the Argies in 98 was pure sex. His first touch, vision and intelligence were extraordinary.

Seeing Robben and Fabregas missing one on ones like that with the keeper already on the ground reminded me him chipping the keepers again and again when at Arsenal.

It's like more mechanical than what it used to be. The creativity is somehow lacking and the oozing moments like those in 98 WC are somehow lacking.
 
kouroux said:
The real crime is that we'll never see Ronaldinho,Messi and Eto'o at the top of their game together but at the same time it would have been unfair on the other teams.
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Very True, that clip you showed me of Dinho vs Socidedad they all seemed to click, I guess their best game all together was against Atletico that season, where they won 6-0 in their ground.

The look on Torres' face during that match:D
 
Enigma_87 said:
may add Bergkamp to that list, especially since you mentioned WC. That goal against the Argies in 98 was pure sex. His first touch, vision and intelligence were extraordinary.

Seeing Robben and Fabregas missing one on ones like that with the keeper already on the ground reminded me him chipping the keepers again and again when at Arsenal.

It's like more mechanical than what it used to be. The creativity is somehow lacking and the oozing moments like those in 98 WC are somehow lacking.
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Maybe football is just more defensive than ever, it was truly conveyed in the group stages of this World Cup.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
I know we're all going to be biased after watching all these Ronaldinho videos but do people here rate Messi's Barca ahead of Ronaldinho's? Often seems the press do but I don't think the current lot come close to the previous generation when Ronaldinho and Eto'o were at their best...
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Overall as a team Messi's Barca is superior to Ronaldinho's specially because the midfielders (Xavi and Iniesta in particular) matured and became much better.Plus their current defence is better than before.
Their trophy haul since Guardiola took over is the proof of that.
 
Boss said:
Maybe football is just more defensive than ever, it was truly conveyed in the group stages of this World Cup.
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Yeah and with Greece winning the Euro, Mourinho with his tactical approach. Very true that most of the teams apply more cautious approach - not to concede at first place.

kouroux said:
Overall as a team Messi's Barca is superior to Ronaldinho's specially because the midfielders (Xavi and Iniesta in particular) matured and became much better.Plus their current defence is better than before.
Their trophy haul since Guardiola took over is the proof of that.
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agree. They have more balanced team. Valdes matured and is much better than it used to be. Their defence is better, the midfield is better to Edmilson/Van Bommel/Deco.

Bar Puyol and Valdes(who are still in the team) only Ronaldinho and Eto'o can walk into todays Barca.
 
Boss said:
same here, I always got the impression Eto'o wasn't too fond of Ronaldinho though, for some reason back then
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Their relationship did evidently sour towards the end, but when both were in peak form if anything it was a mutual if professional appreciation of each others talents. Instinctive understanding, and both had such a variety of goalscoring methods. Produced sex on the pitch even if it was the cold shoulder after the deed.

BaldwinLegend said:
I know we're all going to be biased after watching all these Ronaldinho videos but do people here rate Messi's Barca ahead of Ronaldinho's? Often seems the press do but I don't think the current lot come close to the previous generation when Ronaldinho and Eto'o were at their best...
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Hard to say, I personally think the current Barca are operating in a very poor Club climate, wheras Barca back then defeated a strong Milan, Chelsea and Arsenal en route to winning the trophy, yet on paper their team didn't have the likes of Xavi/Iniesta/Messi being as influential as they are now.

I think though that the 05/06 team was a team capable of breaking down any defences and alot less one dimensional. On Paper you'd say the current team are stronger, and with the additions of Villa ... possibly Fabregas you'd have to say the modern Barca.
 
Boss said:
Maybe football is just more defensive than ever, it was truly conveyed in the group stages of this World Cup.
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It's lots of things. As Dans mentioned in the Howard Webb thread, teams can't afford to lose now, or at least think they can't. So you get lots of teams painstakingly set up to just soak up the opposition and offer very little threat in return, Switzerland being a great example. Didn't lose a game in the World Cup but will anyone remember them fondly for their style of play? 30 years ago a Brazilian manager wouldn't have dreamt of leaving out his most talented player as Dunga did Ronaldinho, but because the competition is infested with commercialism he got away with it - results come first. It's crazy - who can say the WC was better off without Ronaldinho? Who can say they wouldn't have loved to have seen him there?

It's also because the game has reached a new height of professionalism. The level of fitness across the game globally is such that it's a great leveler - you don't get national sides thumping the weaker nations anymore because their fitness is on the same level so they can compete. The Champion's League is the same. Teams simply cancel each other out, seemingly regardless of whether one team boasts greater individual talent.

I remember hearing a radio discussion during a boring group stage where it was seriously suggested that the game would be improved if teams took to the field with 10 men - because when the rules were set players had vastly inferior fitness levels and couldn't cover the pitch as they can now - like I say, teams can simply cancel each other out now, as they often did in South Africa.

I think FIFA have to address this situation, as FIA have addressed Formula 1 to make it more entertaining, otherwise future World Cups promise to be more dour than this one...
 
BaldwinLegend said:
I know we're all going to be biased after watching all these Ronaldinho videos but do people here rate Messi's Barca ahead of Ronaldinho's? Often seems the press do but I don't think the current lot come close to the previous generation when Ronaldinho and Eto'o were at their best...
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Having witnessed both, I'd have to go with Pep's Barca, it's their defensive dicipline that pulls them over the edge in my opinion. You saw how they broke the points barier in LaLiga last season, a record which may never be beaten. They are way more consistent. They won all 6 prizes in 08/09 playing some of the most orgasmic football.

I'm talking about the 6-2 in Madrid's home, the 4-0 against Bayern, the 4-2 against Lyon and let us face it, they dominated us in the Champions League after the first 10 mins.

I also think that the 2005/06 Champions League triumpth from the older generation did get a bit of help along the way. The sending off aganst Del Horno, I think their was a wrongly dissalowed goal for Benfica, there was that dissalowed goal for Sheva, in the Semi Final when Puyol has tripped over himself and once again in the Final against Arsenal, as we all know Lehman was sent off when the ref could have played on.

Last season Inter in the Champions League and Sevilla in the Copa del rey had to defend with all their lives to hang on, I've never seen two teams go that far to defend a lead, it was truly lungs on the pitch stuff to not concede from attack after attack Barca were dishing out. It was almost all over for Inter when everybody thought Bojan had scored.

Overall I think this generation would have edged the old one for consistency and for defensive dicipline, with the aquisition of Villa I think it's only about to get alot worse for teams.
 
BaldwinLegend said:
It's lots of things. As Dans mentioned in the Howard Webb thread, teams can't afford to lose now, or at least think they can't. So you get lots of teams painstakingly set up to just soak up the opposition and offer very little threat in return, Switzerland being a great example. Didn't lose a game in the World Cup but will anyone remember them fondly for their style of play? 30 years ago a Brazilian manager wouldn't have dreamt of leaving out his most talented player as Dunga did Ronaldinho, but because the competition is infested with commercialism he got away with it - results come first. It's crazy - who can say the WC was better off without Ronaldinho? Who can say they wouldn't have loved to have seen him there?

It's also because the game has reached a new height of professionalism. The level of fitness across the game globally is such that it's a great leveler - you don't get national sides thumping the weaker nations anymore because their fitness is on the same level so they can compete. The Champion's League is the same. Teams simply cancel each other out, seemingly regardless of whether one team boasts greater individual talent.

I remember hearing a radio discussion during a boring group stage where it was seriously suggested that the game would be improved if teams took to the field with 10 men - because when the rules were set players had vastly inferior fitness levels and couldn't cover the pitch as they can now - like I say, teams can simply cancel each other out now, as they often did in South Africa.

I think FIFA have to address this situation, as FIA have addressed Formula 1 to make it more entertaining, otherwise future World Cups promise to be more dour than this one...
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Good post and this point is very true, what can be described as the most defensive Brazil possibly ever is a symbol of how the game has become. It's more about results than actually playing beautiful football, this is why when people questioned Dunga he would tell them, 'I've delivered the Copa America, I have delivered the Confederations Cup and we finished on top of our group', so the quality of football became secondary.

Fifa might need to interfere, because I honestly don't see any of this changing any time soon. Maybe it's just a cycle, and the quality of fooball will just come back naturally.

Shit, just look at what the Dutch team has become, it used to be known for Total Football!
 
1801 BST: AC Milan owner and Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has vowed that the Italian giants will never sell Brazilian forward Ronaldinho.

"Ronaldinho is not transferable and we're all in agreement that he will remain at Milan as long as he continues to play," said Berlusconi. "I've not spoken to him recently, but it is certain that we will be renewing his contract and that he'll stay (at Milan) as long as he continues to play.

"I consider him the best player of all time."
 
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