Chelsea fans on the shed end seem to think he is not good enough for what it’s worth
Romelu Lukaku vs Alvaro Morata 2017/18
- Thread starter Paxi
- Start date
Would it be fair to say that none of the big money striker signings have really done well? Lacazette and Morata have been average too but predictably all the talk has been about Lukaku.
Ah yes the legendary 3 minutes he got to play in a final. Was definitely MoTM! Didnt he play a combined 90 minutes in that seasons competition?
TBH i think the point of goals scored at the top level is a valid point. But i've always seen Morata as a second striker, while hes been good at leading the line this season i dont think hes a good finisher.
The market last summer was poor for strikers. Lukaku, Morata, Auba and Lacazette were the ones available. None of Chelsea, Arsenal or ourselves can be blamed for the strikers we bought as we had no other options.
Morata is still technically superior to the rest though. Needs to work on his finishing.
Seriously beginning to think we should have gotten Vardy as a stop-gap for a season or two and let Martial take over or buy a striker like Kane when be becomes available. Vardy is no worse than this lot in current form.
I didnt show you anything as i didn't post it. And of course it a comparative stats, Morata has won more trophies. Hes played at a higher level for longer. He got to the CL final with Juv.
You think he would give up trophies?, yup, ok you're clearly a huge Lukaku fan. He played a large part in the trophies won at Juv and his final year at Real.
So where he didnt feature alot was the 2013 league and 2014 CL, you think he would trade them for a few full seasons at West Brom and Everton?
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Who cares whether he trades goals for trophies, why is that even a point when their career goals are compared? Obviously he will rack up trophies without getting off his seat playing for Juventus and Madrid.
It's a personal belief which I feel. Others may not but my understanding of this game makes me think we have not seenthe best of lukaku and that is true for others like morata too. But like I said if I have to make a bet who will have a better career for their respective clubs I will put on lukaku.
Just saw the highlights. Wow morata 
. That was some awful awful finishing. Certainly no better than lukaku.
. That was some awful awful finishing. Certainly no better than lukaku.Because people are so naive not to understand a player contribution to a team success. And he didn't just sit on the bench at Juv nor did he play as the central striker all the time like Lukaku has his career, but that gets lost on some people. Why are career goals compared when these factors are not applied?
If you apply it to this season, in the league both have 10 goals, both play as the central striker but Morata has played less minutes and has a better goals per minutes ratio.
Who's Lacazette? Seriously no one talks about this guy but all I see on my social media feeds from Arsenal fans is Lukaku criticism
@starman
You seem convinced that simply being in the squad of top sides is playing at a high level
Well done Morata, being the backup to the main striker might be enough for you but obviously not for the player himself.
Is that so hard to understand? Lukaku demanded a loan move from Chelsea to those clubs, he didn't want to sit on the bench and play backup.
Thats why its a nonsense comparison. Conte even wanted Lukaku at Juve but he chose fecking Everton.
Morata has a lot of questions to answer at the age of 25. He hasn't shown anything to suggest he's a consistent goalscorer nor has he shown the capacity to lead the line on his own.
But hey, he had prime seats on the bench watching Ronaldo rip Bayern apart while Lukaku ran Kane close for the golden boot.
That high level..
You seem convinced that simply being in the squad of top sides is playing at a high level
Well done Morata, being the backup to the main striker might be enough for you but obviously not for the player himself.
Is that so hard to understand? Lukaku demanded a loan move from Chelsea to those clubs, he didn't want to sit on the bench and play backup.
Thats why its a nonsense comparison. Conte even wanted Lukaku at Juve but he chose fecking Everton.
Morata has a lot of questions to answer at the age of 25. He hasn't shown anything to suggest he's a consistent goalscorer nor has he shown the capacity to lead the line on his own.
But hey, he had prime seats on the bench watching Ronaldo rip Bayern apart while Lukaku ran Kane close for the golden boot.
That high level..
Lukaku is the better striker. End of story.
What Lukaku needs to improve is his hold up play when he has his back to the goal. That's his one flaw that is holding him back.
What Lukaku needs to improve is his hold up play when he has his back to the goal. That's his one flaw that is holding him back.
So someone made stupid point about career goals so let me top that making even more stupid point about trading trophies.
Not giving up trophies doesn’t necessarily make someone a better player. Anderson probably wouldn’t give up his trophies for Gerrard’s goals or status but that doesn’t mean he is better than gerrard
abysmal performance from morata , bottled 3 clear cut chance and helping wilshere to score, i don't know what people going to say if he did that as united player. at least he is good looking though
we should also compare their form on national team.
lukaku basically scored every game with player like hazard and KDB supporting him
by the way we should ask hazard opinion about who is better striker between morata and lukaku , he would have better answer for everyone else
we should also compare their form on national team.
lukaku basically scored every game with player like hazard and KDB supporting him
by the way we should ask hazard opinion about who is better striker between morata and lukaku , he would have better answer for everyone else
Actually it was 3 one on ones he missed. May as well grasp the nettle can only hurt the once!
I thought in recent weeks he was laying it off to runners more and not getting caught in possession nearly as much. But we really don't play him to his strengths at all. I'd go so far to say that actually as footballing styles go. Lukaku would suit Chelsea more and Morata would suit United better as we seem to require our 9 to play with his back to goal.
But there is not a doubt in my mind that Lukaku would have scored at least one of them chances last night if not all of them. But how often do you see us playing Lukaku in for 1 on 1's like that? It's just not how we ask him to play. But would I swap Lukaku for Morata? No way. You can keep him, he's a year younger and he is addressing his link up failings. I just wish we get him to play on the shoulder a little more and rested him more to keep him fresh and hungry.
He's our Belgian scoring genius...
I agree we are not playing to his strength considering team mostly sit back and we do not have players who can really cross the ball.
However, i'm really hoping we stick with this midfield three and i'm confident that Lukaku would benefit with Pogba playing higher. As far as footballing style goes, I kinda agree and disagree. I agree that we would benefit more with a played who is good with their back towards the goal but then again, Chelsea against weaker teams don't seem to give Morata much 1v1 chances. IIRC, the goals came from the Morata Azpi link up. As for Lukaku having 1v1 chances, we don't seem to release the ball early enough at times for that to happen. Hopefully with new signings, we would do so.
His link up play has improved imo, his hold up play tho, needs more work. But all in all, i'm rather satisfied with Lukaku. I hope we stick to a 3 but i think once Lukaku comes back, we would probably resort back to a 2 since Mourinho would want to field Mata, Lingard and Martial all at once.
Dreadful from Morata last night , even worse than Rom cause there were at least 3 100% chances for him to score and an assist for Arsenal's goal
His first miss was astonishing, but I've seen Kane have equally glaring ones. The flick right at the keeper on his third attempt reminded me of Lukaku's recent misses. Poor display, to be sure.
But from the start I felt Morata was the better fit for United. Lukaku's contributed far more than I expected in certain areas (his link-up play has at times been exceptional), and his 11 goals in 10 games to start the season far surpassed everyone's expectations. But Morata has more game-winning goals against top teams this year, and aside from his defensive mistake against Arsenal in the Community Shield (he played Arsenal on-side on the game-tying goal), he's not been involved in any howlers that I know of.
On balance, Lukaku's probably had a slightly better season so far. Both are young(ish) and will undoubtedly improve, but I don't imagine either of them becoming world class.
I like Morata's displays of anger when he makes mistakes, as apposed to Lukaku's "dammit, that's going to be in the highlight's tonight" reactions.
My biggest gripe, by far, is Lukaku's berating of his teammates when they make mistakes, or when his passes go astray and he stands there, palms to the sky, blaming his teammates, "why didn't you read my brilliant mind and anticipate that pass?" Rashford's learned that behavior from him, too, now. That shit needs to end. I don't see Morata doing that to his teammates. And it admittedly clouds my judgment on everything else Lukaku does.
But from the start I felt Morata was the better fit for United. Lukaku's contributed far more than I expected in certain areas (his link-up play has at times been exceptional), and his 11 goals in 10 games to start the season far surpassed everyone's expectations. But Morata has more game-winning goals against top teams this year, and aside from his defensive mistake against Arsenal in the Community Shield (he played Arsenal on-side on the game-tying goal), he's not been involved in any howlers that I know of.
On balance, Lukaku's probably had a slightly better season so far. Both are young(ish) and will undoubtedly improve, but I don't imagine either of them becoming world class.
I like Morata's displays of anger when he makes mistakes, as apposed to Lukaku's "dammit, that's going to be in the highlight's tonight" reactions.
My biggest gripe, by far, is Lukaku's berating of his teammates when they make mistakes, or when his passes go astray and he stands there, palms to the sky, blaming his teammates, "why didn't you read my brilliant mind and anticipate that pass?" Rashford's learned that behavior from him, too, now. That shit needs to end. I don't see Morata doing that to his teammates. And it admittedly clouds my judgment on everything else Lukaku does.
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I rather griezmann than Morata. But that is outside the topic.
Yeah and it was that posters personal belief that Lukaku won't improve the way Morata will. Yet you seem to want evidence to back it up.
My view is that they're both good strikers but clearly not of the level that their respective clubs are used to. While they put up similar numbers, Morata's finishing is erratic and Lukakus general play can be very poor. On Morata, I used to call him the Spanish Welbeck for a reason. Then he bad that season at Madrid last year where he started scoring loads. With him it all depends on whether he can be a great goal getter because the rest of his game is very good. But not everyone can have that composure infront of goal. As for Lukaku, his all round play and natural ability on the ball isn't that of a top striker. But he appears more reliable infront of goal to me.
Basically Kane has left them all eating dust so far. He appears on a completely different level to the three of them. Even if we're not expecting them to break records like he is, they're all well below previous great strikers those clubs had, like Rvp, RvN, Costa, Drogba etc.
Which games are these?
Vs Spurs - 79 mins - No goals or assist (Chelsea won 2-1) - Goals was from Alonso free kick and from Alonso with Lloris mistake
Vs Arsenal - 89 mins - No goals or assist (0-0)
Vs City 34 mins - no goals or assist (lost 1-0)
Vs ManUtd - 90 mins - 1 goal (won 1-0)
Vs Liverpool - 90 mins - No goals or assist (1-1) - Willian's fluke goal
Vs Arsenal - 90 mins - No goals or assist (2-2) - No part in any of the goals. One penalty and other was Zapacosta's cross and Alonso's finish.
In Champions league:
Played against Roma home and away, Atletico Madrid home and away, scored equaliser against Atletico madrid.
Played 25 mins against Qarabag
Lukaku - played against all big teams. He assisted winner against Spurs. Also played part in 2 goals against Arsenal, if not 2 at least for the first Lingard goal he played big part.
Maybe because we are considering the overall careers of great players with young players who are just making the big step.
For example at 24 - RVN was playing at PSV.
RVP - scored double figures in league only once, that was 11 goals.
Drogba - was at Guingamp scoring 17 league goals and 3 league goals in previous season.
Costa - Scored 10 league goals playing second fiddle to Falcao.
I guess one is more than none, still.
But I think the combination of his goal against Atletico, his goal against United, and the fact he's always scoring the 1-0 or 2-1 goals or assists (Brighton, Bournemouth, Newcastle, West Bromwich, Leicester, Stoke, Everton (A), Burnly (down 0-3)).
That screams impact. Lukaku scores to put games to bed (as he's known for). That's more of a hushed tones murmur.
I think even if Lukaku is not your cup of tea, it's clear morata is not a player we should mourn not signing.
I guess one is more than none, still.
But I think the combination of his goal against Atletico, hist goal against United, and the fact he's always scoring the 1-0 or 2-1 goals or assists (Brighton, Bournemouth, Newcastle, West Bromwich, Leicester, Stoke, Everton (A), Burnly (down 0-3)).
That's screams impact. Lukaku scores to put games to bed (as he's known for). That's more of a hushed tones murmur.
Morata scored 1, Lukaku assisted 1 both winners.
Regarding scoring at important times:
Vs West Ham - First 2 goals in 4-0 win
Vs Swansea - Scored 2nd goal
Vs Stoke - Scored goal to put us in 2-1 lead
Vs Everton - Assisted Mkhitaryan to make it 2-0
Vs Southamptoin - Scored only goal in 1-0 win
Vs Huddersfield - assisted only goal in 2-1 loss
Vs Spurs - Assisted only goal in 1-0 win
Vs Bournemouth - Scored only goal in 1-0 win
Vs West Brom - Scored first goal to make it 1-0 in 2-1 win
This is ignoring his contribution to goals against Arsenal to make it 2-0, or against Newcastle to make it 3-1.
In CL,
Scored goal vs Basel to make it 2-0 at home
Scored first and third goal to make it 1-0 and 3-0 vs CSKA away
Scored equalising goal to make it 1-1 vs CSKA home.
Good to see many Lukaku/Morata myths being busted on this page.
They'll both come good.
Moratas hold up play and passing is massively overrated. He is also very soft and goes down too easily, frustrating player to watch.
Yeah, 2-nills and assists to put the game out of reach. Morata's got equal impact with his assists, but greater impact with his goals:
1-3 goal and 2-3 assist : Burnely
1-0 goal and 2-0 assist : West Brom
1-0 goal and 2-0 assist : Everton
1-0 goal : Leicester
1-0 3-0 4-0 hat-trick : Stoke
1-1 goal : Atletico
1-0 assist: Bournemouth
1-0 goal : United
2-1 goal : Newcastle
2-1 goal : Bournemouth
1-0 goal : Brighton
No matter how you slice it up, Morata's impact exceeds Lukaku's on that front. Either the deciding goal or assist (saving or winning points) in 10 matches. Lukaku's got work to do.
Yeah, 2-nills and assists to put the game out of reach. Morata's got equal impact with his assists, but greater impact with his goals:
1-3 goal and 2-3 assist : Burnely
1-0 goal and 2-0 assist : West Brom
1-0 goal and 2-0 assist : Everton
1-0 goal : Leicester
1-0 3-0 4-0 hat-trick : Stoke
1-1 goal : Atletico
1-0 assist: Bournemouth
1-0 goal : United
2-1 goal : Newcastle
2-1 goal : Bournemouth
1-0 goal : Brighton
No matter how you slice it up, Morata's impact exceeds Lukaku's on that front. Either the deciding goal or assist (saving or winning points) in 10 matches. Lukaku's got work to do.
It's not whether Morata or Lukaku scored more important goals, it's your point that "Lukaku scores to put games to bed (as he's known for)" Apart from 1 or 2 goals, all of Lukaku's goals and assists are either to open the scoring or extend 1 goal lead to 2. Only goals which didn't mean much was against Palace and Everton.
His goals and assists have as much impact as Morata's, not sure only goals are considered when Lukaku's assists are clear goal scoring opportunities created by player.
Edit: Btw you mentioned 11 games, I mentioned 12 games.
That actually is my point. If it's a striker's job to score goals, then it's fair to judge the value of their goals. Morata comes out on top on that metric.
It's the "extending leads" that makes them less valuable -- not value-less, but simply not as impactful as Morata's contributions.
You're not looking closely enough: in how many games did Morata get points-winning or points-saving goals? 8. He assisted the points-winning goal in one other game, and his other assists (in your words) "extended leads."
Morata still comes out on top.
You have very different meaning for important contribution. Extending 1-0 lead is very important contribution. We are not talking about extending 2-0s to 3-0s, it's extending one goal lead to 2.
Even if you go by your definition, in 7 games Lukaku has either scored first goal, equalised or scoring goal to put ManUtd in lead.
Edit: Looks like you are arguing completely different thing as I didn't say Lukaku scored more important goals or assists than Morata, it's your point that Lukaku doesn't score important goals was challenged.
Slightly ironic that Lukaku’s goals seem to have dried up a bit since his hold up play seems to have gone up a notch.
We could see a real beast of a player next season when hopefully it all comes together and he’s had a season to adjust to being in the spotlight at United.
We could see a real beast of a player next season when hopefully it all comes together and he’s had a season to adjust to being in the spotlight at United.
No, we probably agree on what's important contribution. But I'm saying 1-nills are more important than 2-nills. I'm not saying 2-nills are unimportant.
Ah, the "putting games to bed," is what you're referring to. Well, many of his goals are exactly that. We can agree that not most of his goals and assists, then.
So their contributions are similar, but with Morata edging Lukaku out in the end. Which I think is what I said about an hour ago.
Edit: it should be noted that Mourinho himself has said Lukaku was brought in to turn last year's draws into wins, and to put games out of reach (unlike many of last year's draws). I'll side with Mourinho's judgment on this one.
No, we probably agree on what's important contribution. But I'm saying 1-nills are more important than 2-nills. I'm not saying 2-nills are unimportant.
Ah, the "putting games to bed," is what you're referring to. Well, many of his goals are exactly that. We can agree that not most of his goals and assists, then.
So their contributions are similar, but with Morata edging Lukaku out in the end. Which I think is what I said about an hour ago.
Lukaku has scored first goal, equalized or gave lead in 7 games (only goals) and you said Morata had 8. Big deal. So that's means Morata makes contributions when mattes whereas Lukaku puts game to bed. That logic
Lukaku has scored first goal, equalized or gave lead in 7 games (only goals) and you said Morata had 8. Big deal. So that's means Morata makes contributions when mattes whereas Lukaku puts game to bed. That logic
Well, toss in the fact that some of Morata's were against United and Atletico, and yes it makes a difference.
In how many games did Lukaku's goals put the game out of reach? 4. Morata? 1 -- his hat-trick.
The stats don't lie, roonster09.
. Look at minutes played.