I'm not sure that's a realistic solution to be honest.
Romelu Lukaku | United confirm deal subject to medical and personal terms
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Not sure he is the world class striker we are looking for. I barely watch Everton though.
Can he create something out of nothing? Can he dribble? Is he quick enough to run away from defenders?
Can he create something out of nothing? Can he dribble? Is he quick enough to run away from defenders?
Agree. And you can factor in the high price Everton paid for him originally too. Recouping and profiteering will be their main aims.
I do agree with @JPRouve on there being an imbalance on value - even here. However that margin of error/risk is smaller for Lukaku at a reasonably higher fee (£40m+) given 3 factors:
1) His age and the long-term value available.
2) His potential and recent form over the past few seasons in the PL itself.
3) His injury record is very good too.
Why? If Schneiderlin and Lukaku were English they'd cost even more.
"PL-proven" adds 30%(*) to the price.
* I might have pulled that number from my arse.
Yes.
Yes.
Oh yes indeed! Lightening.
He's 22, lots of room for improvement. Drogba was 24 when Chelsea bought him from Olympique Marseille.
Every young player at Everton is overhyped in here
Didn't he also reach 100 career goals earlier than Rooney, Messi & Ronaldo?
Not suggesting he's gonna out-Ronaldo Ronaldo, but his goalscoring record is hard to ignore, and in the PL as well.
Not suggesting he's gonna out-Ronaldo Ronaldo, but his goalscoring record is hard to ignore, and in the PL as well.
If we are looking to sign a striker, this is a no-brainer. He is nailed on to be one of the best strikers in the world and he will give us 10 years of service. He also counts as home grown, if I am not mistaken, so basically there is no difference between him and Kane.
They probably are, but there is substance to the Lukaku and Barkley hype train. Stones IS overhyped, I agree.
It is realistic, Lukaku is almost an exception because he is a prolific goalscorer in the PL, but let me use Kanté as an example someone will soon suggest that he should be bought for +30m£ while Nampalys Mendy is sitting at Nice and will cost 4 times less and plays in the second best midfield after PSG, I could say the same thing about Schneiderlin, he isn't unique to the point that you have to overpay.
In the case of players like Lukaku and Benteke, their physical attributes make them unique, they are both powerful and fast and their technique is pretty good, so if you are after a player like that I can understand why you would overpay. But if you have a player like Martial or Aguero, you don't need Lukaku, you can build your attack in a different way and avoid overpaying by purchasing maybe two players of Lukaku's quality for the same price.
So it's simple, if you want a player like Lukaku purchase him, if you just want to improve your attack look somewhere else.
Finding it hard to believe that a huge player like Lukaku has the ability to wiggle his way through tight defences like Aguero for example
I've followed Lukaku's career closely and 2-3 years ago he never looked like he could play for a top team, and it was probably right that Chelsea got rid of him although you have to factor in his age and potential at the time. However there were question marks over whether he just looked good from a young age due to his dominant size and strength.
His WBA loan was quite erratic but he clearly showed ability and talent but watching him for Everton in his first two season, he was very inconsistent and not just in terms of goalscoring. He could beat men easily but then struggle to hold up a simple pass. His hold up play was nowhere near a top strikers especially for someone his size and his awareness in and around the box wasn't good enough.
This year, these aspects have improved immensely, he can now bring others into play and hold the ball up well, more of his goals are "strikers' goals" and he seems to work harder for the team. He would be a top addition for any team that gets him but the fact that they spent 28m on him and he's only got better coupled with the fact that he's still young and idolised at Everton, it's going to be a very very big price.
His WBA loan was quite erratic but he clearly showed ability and talent but watching him for Everton in his first two season, he was very inconsistent and not just in terms of goalscoring. He could beat men easily but then struggle to hold up a simple pass. His hold up play was nowhere near a top strikers especially for someone his size and his awareness in and around the box wasn't good enough.
This year, these aspects have improved immensely, he can now bring others into play and hold the ball up well, more of his goals are "strikers' goals" and he seems to work harder for the team. He would be a top addition for any team that gets him but the fact that they spent 28m on him and he's only got better coupled with the fact that he's still young and idolised at Everton, it's going to be a very very big price.
It's not quite Aguero like overall but take his goal against Chelsea in the cup, his dribbling in a tight situation was very impressive. He can move nimbly and beat a man, or he can just use his brute force and power his way through.
Not so much wiggling Aguero style no, few can to be fair. But he can certainly cut through defences using sheer pace and power with the additional dribling skills. Check out his first goal against Chelsea in the FA-Cup a forthnight ago. A brilliant solo goal.
40 of those goals came in the Jupiler Pro League though, which puts the numbers into context. A more telling stat is that he's never scored 20 goals in a league season (17, 15, 10, 18) - that doen't exactly inspire confidence for someone who's a battering ram center-forward with decent link up play (primarily) - instead of an all round forward - who bring much more than goals and the ability to engage the centerbacks to the fold. The numbers do kind of mirror Benteke's at Aston Villa (19, 10, 13) - and while I do think Lukaku is a better player and a better striker, apart from being younger - we'd be paying massively over the odds for someone who's a good striker (just like we would have done if we had signed Benteke over the summer), but not one who's likely to be among the cream of the crop down the road.
For the kind of money Everton will demand, the burden would be on him to play at an exceptionally high standard, and consistently provide magical moments (something I personally don't feel he's capable of doing); especially when we consider that other clubs our size got brilliant value for their strikers/ forwards (Lewandowski on a Bosman, Dybala for £32 million, Suárez for ~£60 million - which coincidentally, is what Lukaku will cost, in all likelihood). There's a need for United to stop paying over the odds for 'good' Premier League players - that just warps the market further, and we do suffer for it over the medium term - in that if we want to get rid of said player, no club is willing to sign the guy because of the kind of wages/ fees we parted with in the first place. Ideally, we sign Zlatan, and he becomes a 2-3 year bridge - allowing us to sign a better talent than Lukaku - one or two of them are bound to crop up.
I agree with a lot of what you say but not when it comes to goals. We're not even in April and he's got 25 in 39 (all competitions) for an Everton team sitting in 12th place. A brilliant return.
Zlatan would make sense on a lot of levels though. Woody would love such a transfer.
I don't think the 20 goal season thing is a telling stat given his age and the respective clubs he has been at so far in his career.
Do you think he's almost as good as Kane?
Feel free to use your Everton glasses.
But you know that playing in a "better" team doesn't equate to scoring more. In the case of Lukaku the only question that needs answering is, do we need that player?
This is pretty much spot on, he has improved a lot this year and he has found consistency.
Not sure I agree with all of that. He's only 22 and has proven a lot more than the established strikers of today at that age, I think Suarez was still at Heerenveen when he was 22. So to say he's not very likely to be one of the very best in the (near) future is a bit over the top for me, chances are he won't be but he very well might imo.
As for his goals in a season - he's played at an average to poor West Brom side when he was still very, very young and immediately scored 17 league goals, not bad if you ask me. This season is the first he's had good supply with the likes of Deulofeu and Barkley and he's easily going to eclipse the 20 goal mark. He probably will be marked a lot tighter at United but defences need to focus on the likes of Martial, Memphis, possibly Rashford as well so he'll get more opportunities and better supply from those players as well. His work ethic is tremendous as well, he wants to be the very best and is still improving. His hold up play has gotten a lot better this last season alone, he's also a bit more lethal in front of goal than he used to be and can score a goal out of nothing as well, which is very important for a striker playing at United. To me, he's one of those players who can decide games on his own on his day. Yes, there would be a good amount of pressure on him given his transfer fee but that was the same with Martial and I think everyone can agree he's had a superb first season at United for a teenager.
I do agree that United shouldn't pay over the odds for another PL proven player again but if Lukaku moves, it will be the case. You have to look for alternatives though, which strikers are realistically available for less than Lukaku? I'd say if there is even the slightest chance to buy Griezmann for around €50-60m, I'd go all-in on a player like that and keep Lukaku in the waiting room. There's just little possibility at the moment for United to land a player like Lewandowski, Griezmann or Dybala, just to name a few. Dybala and Lukaku were only born a mere six months apart by the way, the latter is often regarded as almost a finished article whilst the former is an up and rising star. That just tells me how much Lukaku has already proven at such a young age.
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Fair enough, maybe I was overly harsh wrt his goalscoring ability. Though I do think that in terms of scoring goals - a lot of Martínez' tactics seem devised around him as a target of sorts. Time and time again, we see the emergence of strikers who do well at mid tier Premier League clubs (no offense SW, the way things are headed - United aren't far away from it either
), but not at the bigger clubs where half the attack doesn't cater to their strengths, and they're asked to be more than just typical #9s. IMO, he's like a slightly worse version of Mario Gómez (who scored a similar number of goals at Stuttgart and was marginally better in terms of technique) - but Bayern eventually found out that they were better served by Mandžukić and Lewandowski (who both brought a lot more than goals to the table). And in a superstitious way - I'd rather not do business with Everton at all. If Moyes wasn't ominous enough, they took us to the cleaners with that lemon Fellaini too (another player who thrived when his manager made him the attacking focal point).His first touch is still a worry. I can't remember the game Everton won 3-0 some weeks back. I think it was Stoke. He had a decent game but his first touch and hold up play was shocking.
Only reserves i would have is about his supposed long-term value. Sure, he's just 22, but he's been playing in the top-flight week in week out since he was 16, like Rooney. I don't expect his peak to go past 28-29. I could be wrong of course, and even if i'm right, that's still 6 or 7 years of quality service.
But you don't pay +50m£ for a "he very well might", Everton spent 28m£ on Lukaku they are going to ask a lot more than that for him.
Do you think he's almost as good as Kane?
Feel free to use your Everton glasses.
I don't think there is much between them, Kane has had two excellent seasons but before that he was mulling around the lower leagues doing nothing at all while Lukaku has consistently been scoring at PL level for 4 seasons now at the same age. Different trajectories of course but there is an argument to be made for either being better.
Of course not, he would need to play at a team with a similar style to ours attacking wise so Arsenal or City would probably be a better fit rather than United. I could imagine that him and Aguero could have a partnership akin to Negredo and Aguero.
We did with Martial tbf.
Yes they are, and I never said United should pay that kind of fee because it's too much for him but you'll probably have to if you really want him.
It's just the "he probably won't be a world class striker" argument that annoys me because you can't possibly know that aged 22. Suarez still at Heerenveen, Lewandowski at Lech Poznan, Falcao at River Plate, all aged 22. Of course they all went to bigger clubs for way, way less money than you'd have to pay for Lukaku and I guess that's what makes the difference.
Martial is a different type of player and he is the type of player that cost a lot of money and he was on an ascending curb.
While Lukaku is in a group of players like Mandzukic, Bony, Diego Costa, Mario Gomez, Giroud or Benteke. These players cost what Everton paid for Lukaku, Lukaku for 28m is fair, for +50m it's not fair at all.
Lukaku is in far superior physical shape to what Rooney ever was. He's more athletically blessed than Rooney.
To be honest, if we paid £50m and got 6/7 quality years out of him, you couldn't complain about that nowadays.
Lukaku to United makes too much sense for it not to happen. You'd probably have to pay in or around £50 million for him but it'd be worth it. He instantly adds 20-25 goals and that can take a side from where United are to title challengers.
It'd be interesting to see if he still wants the move if Mourinho becomes United boss. Was it Jose who decided to get rid or was it out of his control?
It'd be interesting to see if he still wants the move if Mourinho becomes United boss. Was it Jose who decided to get rid or was it out of his control?
They said the same about Benteke to Liverpool last summer
It was Lukaku's decision to leave Chelsea because he wanted more playing time, and Mourinho granted him his wish. There's no grudge between the two of them.
United paid £28 million to get one really good year out of Van Persie and win another league title. That was great business, so £50 million for Lukaku would be even better given his age and potential to improve.
They said the same about Benteke to Liverpool last summer
It was Lukaku's decision to leave Chelsea because he wanted more playing time, and Mourinho granted him his wish. There's no grudge between the two of them.
The mismatch was painfully obvious, Benteke is still a good player.
See the thing is - the stage the player plays at is only a part of the equation. So to say that Suárez was only at Ajax at 22 is a bit disingenuous - because even at that level, Suárez's technique and desire and relentless workrate on the pitch (sometimes, that manifested itself in a cnutish way) stood out, way above the rest of the cast (I think it was Van Basten who compared him with Ibrahimović in terms of his impact on the team?) Of course, very few could have foreseen what he would eventually become at Liverpool and Barcelona, and the Eredivisie isn't comparable to the Premier League, but the raw tools were there in abundance as a forward, not just as a #9 (something I don't quite see with Lukaku). At approximately the age Lukaku is right now, Suárez was exceptional at the World Cup level too (Uruguay's best player after Forlán from a wide-ish position - and IMO, they could have even reached the final if he played against Holland). He was a lot more established than we are led to believe per the Liverpool unearthed an unheard of gem narrative. That said, I do agree with you in that Lukaku could achieve far more than was expected of him, we can never discount that possibility.
As to the kind of strikers or forwards we could sign, that's an interesting question. And a lot of it hinges on whether we manage to qualify for the Champions League (or not). If we do, then the potential addition of Mourinho (pls!
), and the money United can part with - should make for an interesting summer. IMO, Ibrahimović is the best option because while he might only be a short term addition, more crucially - he's still a Top 3-5 striker, and will provide an immediate impetus to the attack (the central piece that Martial and co. could rally around). Griezmann depends on the aforementioned CL qualification bit I reckon. He loves Atlético (apparently), and seems comfortable in La Liga, but Atlético's finances are still in a flux, and Simeone can already spoken of the possibility of letting Griezmann go. If push comes to shove, United might just be able to nab him. Dybala on the other hand - won't move, and neither will Lewandowski (if he does - it would be for an obscene amount of money to Real Madrid or summat - thought parting with €60m+ for a player like him would be more palatable).And reg. the Dybala/ Lukaku age thing, that's another unfair argument IMO, because players don't progress in a linear fashion - some are fast out of the gates, other not so much - and Dybala moved all the way from South America too (transitioning to European leagues is extremely hard), and again - it's about the total skillset, instead of what the player has 'proven' - IMO, which is where Dybala sets himself apart. Infact, it kinda reminds me of the arguments I used to have with my Arsenal supporting friends back in the day - who were of the opinion that Reyes was better than Ronaldo because he was scoring more goals, and was more 'proven' at that moment in time - without considering their relative skillsets (not the greatest comparison to be fair, but it's the first one that sprung to mind).
For that price Everton expects I don't imagine there are more than a few options. I would expect us and PSG are the only clubs who would be willing to spend £50m on a player
I think they're very different players. Benteke has clearly lost some of his pace due to injuries and is now quite limited in terms of how you have to play to get the best out of him. Lukaku has more to his game for me such as pace and dribbling skills that Benteke seems to lack. The first goal (I think) that Lukaku scored against Chelsea (dribbling past defenders from a wide position to score) is the sort of play you won't see from Benteke.They said the same about Benteke to Liverpool last summer
It was Lukaku's decision to leave Chelsea because he wanted more playing time, and Mourinho granted him his wish. There's no grudge between the two of them.
Ah ok thanks, I wondered whether Mourinho would have kept him given the choice.
Fair arguments with regard to Suarez. Of course he was Ajax' captain and an established goalscorer, albeit only in the Eredivisie. He scored some ridiculously good goals for them during his time there. So it's definitely not like he was unheard of, but that's the transfer strategy Liverpool has to persist with, imo - it can be very hit and miss but we're just not able to compete with other clubs for world class players, which is why I don't believe this Götze rumours for a minute.See the thing is - the stage the player plays at is only a part of the equation. So to say that Suárez was only at Ajax at 22 is a bit disingenuous - because even at that level, Suárez's technique and desire and relentless workrate on the pitch (sometimes, that manifested itself in a cnutish way) stood out, way above the rest of the cast (I think it was Van Basten who compared him with Ibrahimović in terms of his impact on the team?) Of course, very few could have foreseen what he would eventually become at Liverpool and Barcelona, and the Eredivisie isn't comparable to the Premier League, but the raw tools were there in abundance as a forward, not just as a #9 (something I don't quite see with Lukaku). At approximately the age Lukaku is right now, Suárez was exceptional at the World Cup level too (Uruguay's best player after Forlán from a wide-ish position - and IMO, they could have even reached the final if he played against Holland). He was a lot more established than we are led to believe per the Liverpool unearthed an unheard of gem narrative. That said, I do agree with you in that Lukaku could achieve far more than was expected of him, we can never discount that possibility.
As to the kind of strikers or forwards we could sign, that's an interesting question. And a lot of it hinges on whether we manage to qualify for the Champions League (or not). If we do, then the potential addition of Mourinho (pls!
And reg. the Dybala/ Lukaku age thing, that's another unfair argument IMO, because players don't progress in a linear fashion - some are fast out of the gates, other not so much - and Dybala moved all the way from South America too (transitioning to European leagues is extremely hard), and again - it's about the total skillset, instead of what the player has 'proven' - IMO, which is where Dybala sets himself apart. Infact, it kinda reminds me of the arguments I used to have with my Arsenal supporting friends back in the day - who were of the opinion that Reyes was better than Ronaldo because he was scoring more goals, and was more 'proven' at that moment in time - without considering their relative skillsets (not the greatest comparison to be fair, but it's the first one that sprung to mind).
Don't know for sure about Ibra. I think he has said many times that he hates the English press and is perfectly satisfied with never having played in the Premier League? Mourinho (and maybe United paying ridiculous wages) is the only thing that could persuade him to join you but I don't see it happening, tbf. I hope he does join you though, might sound strange but I'd love watching him play on a regular basis even if it's for United.
Just to be clear, I definitely wasn't trying to argue that Lukaku is better than Dybala because the latter is clearly the superior talent for me (and already a better player as well). But they are the same age, Lukaku is also still only 22. His early rise at Anderlecht had a lot to do with his rare combination of size, speed and strength - especially in Belgium, it's very easy to bully defences for players like him. One might wonder what will happen once his speed and other physical attributes start to fade away because that's what makes him 'special' in a way. People asked the same question about James when he entered the NBA but his overall basketball IQ is so high that he could easily play on for another five seasons even withouth that explosiveness, which can't be said about Lukaku imo. But like other people have said, if you pay €60m for him and you get six or seven good years out of him (~20 goals a season), would it really have been that bad a deal?
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