Romelu Lukaku | Chelsea

Red_Aaron said:
The perfect example against modern stat obsessed football discussions u - just watch him play. I genuinely believe my 8 year old has a better first touch

To use a classic caf quote 'even if he scores a 100 goals it'd still be the wrong decision'
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Can your 8 year old or even you score goals and win games at the top flight??
Stop disregarding stats, especially when that stat is goals scored.

I'm not Lukaku's biggest fan at all but goals is literally the most important thing in the game and wins you things.

Lukaku got credit because he was a good goalscorer. Not the most well rounded forward but he has a pretty good scoring record throughout his career.

The toughest thing in the game is putting the ball in the back of the net.

I know it's "cool" these days to disregard goals to show "Oh I am a sophisticated Football fan". Goals will always be king. Why is Haaland more in demand than a Foden?

And before people come at me, I dislike Lukaku but it's pretty clear to see why he was rated and so many clubs have bought him.
 
The Corinthian said:
£60m on Pulisic
£45m on Werner
£72m on Havertz

Before I’m quoted by rabid Chelsea fans, Havertz has been ok as of late, but you all were expecting more for £72m.
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Rabid Chelsea fan here :lol:

We obviously paid for potential with Havertz (same with Pulisic, and Sancho with you). The idea was never that he should hit the ground running. That would have been fantastic of course, but he was 21. He's coming more and more into his own this season and he's currently in fantastic form.
 
TenonTen said:
Can your 8 year old or even you score goals and win games at the top flight??
Stop disregarding stats, especially when that stat is goals scored.

I'm not Lukaku's biggest fan at all but goals is literally the most important thing in the game and wins you things.

Lukaku got credit because he was a good goalscorer. Not the most well rounded forward but he has a pretty good scoring record throughout his career.

The toughest thing in the game is putting the ball in the back of the net.

I know it's "cool" these days to disregard goals to show "Oh I am a sophisticated Football fan". Goals will always be king. Why is Haaland more in demand than a Foden?

And before people come at me, I dislike Lukaku but it's pretty clear to see why he was rated and so many clubs have bought him.
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You have to consider the eye test, he is the Wan bissaka of forwards, but he carry himself like he is prime Lahm.
Tuchel signing him makes me rate Tuchel less, because no way Pep or Klopp would do same.
 
TenonTen said:
And before people come at me, I dislike Lukaku but it's pretty clear to see why he was rated and so many clubs have bought him.
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Its a weird one because he feels like a bit of an anomaly. If you 100% play to his strengths and build the team around them he will score goals for you but I'm not sure he suits the way a lot of top teams want to play now. Its a little bit like the conundrum with Ronaldo these days. He will score a lot of goals and statistically his numbers are good but its very hard to accurately represent the "damage" a player like that does to the output of the rest of the team.

If a team scores 100 goals with 5 players scoring 20 each vs a team scoring 80 goals and one player gets 35 of them, I would take the former every time. Lukaku negatively affects the other aspects of Chelseas play and they aren't building around him either so they have the worst of both worlds when he plays.

Its almost like clubs look purely at his numbers and decide that he will add goals without considering the cost of those goals on the team and what it means for the rest of the team.

It would be interesting to know how keen Tuchel was on Chelsea spending £100m on him. You have to kind of assume that he was really keen because thats a lot of money and Lukaku isn't exactly a marketing signing like Pogba, Ronaldo, Mbappe etc would be. Just all around a bit odd.
 
TenonTen said:
Can your 8 year old or even you score goals and win games at the top flight??
Stop disregarding stats, especially when that stat is goals scored.

I'm not Lukaku's biggest fan at all but goals is literally the most important thing in the game and wins you things.

Lukaku got credit because he was a good goalscorer. Not the most well rounded forward but he has a pretty good scoring record throughout his career.

The toughest thing in the game is putting the ball in the back of the net.

I know it's "cool" these days to disregard goals to show "Oh I am a sophisticated Football fan". Goals will always be king. Why is Haaland more in demand than a Foden?

And before people come at me, I dislike Lukaku but it's pretty clear to see why he was rated and so many clubs have bought him.
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No, the toughest thing in football is to be a forward competing at the top level who needs to be consistent v top sides as well as lower sides.
Lukaku fails that in every level. Anybody can score goals if you have the talent and are comfortable at the level you’re at. That elite level is rarified air for a reason.
 
TenonTen said:
Can your 8 year old or even you score goals and win games at the top flight??
Stop disregarding stats, especially when that stat is goals scored.

I'm not Lukaku's biggest fan at all but goals is literally the most important thing in the game and wins you things.

Lukaku got credit because he was a good goalscorer. Not the most well rounded forward but he has a pretty good scoring record throughout his career.

The toughest thing in the game is putting the ball in the back of the net.

I know it's "cool" these days to disregard goals to show "Oh I am a sophisticated Football fan". Goals will always be king. Why is Haaland more in demand than a Foden?

And before people come at me, I dislike Lukaku but it's pretty clear to see why he was rated and so many clubs have bought him.
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Trust me, if Foden was available he would be in as much demand as is Haaland
 
Dave Smith said:
There is literally someone 5-10 posts up who is saying they're on 'scapegoat watch'.
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He just defends him against the OTT criticism. I still think Lukaku is a terrible flop we should never have signed, but reading his posts have in some ways helped me be a little less tunnel visioned when analysing the problems with our attack.
 
Adam-Utd said:
It's just nice to see another club making a hugely expensive mistake for once isn't it?

Everybody blamed us for making Lukaku bad. I guess it was just Italian teams couldn't handle his size.
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wrong. In Italy they play with more tactical intelligence, where as England is more chaotic. Lukaku is a student of the game so aligns with Italy's superior football
 
WeePat said:
Rabid Chelsea fan here :lol:

We obviously paid for potential with Havertz (same with Pulisic, and Sancho with you). The idea was never that he should hit the ground running. That would have been fantastic of course, but he was 21. He's coming more and more into his own this season and he's currently in fantastic form.
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I think there’s an element of potential but by in large you’d expect them to hit the ground running. Might not be the best example, but we signed Amad Diallo for potential. Sancho, we signed because he was delivering in the BL (as was Havertz), although due to their age there was an element of potential too.

Havertz had a very average to poor first season with you (but wrote himself into Chelsea history getting the goal in the CL). He’s been better this season, but only because he’s playing as a number 9…which itself is only because both Werner and Lukaku have been awful.
 
Stacks said:
wrong. In Italy they play with more tactical intelligence, where as England is more chaotic. Lukaku is a student of the game so aligns with Italy's superior football
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:lol:
 
Stacks said:
wrong. In Italy they play with more tactical intelligence, where as England is more chaotic. Lukaku is a student of the game so aligns with Italy's superior football
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I like that analogy. It's like saying Gordon Ramsay can't work as a cook at McDonalds
 
Adam-Utd said:
It's just nice to see another club making a hugely expensive mistake for once isn't it?

Everybody blamed us for making Lukaku bad. I guess it was just Italian teams couldn't handle his size.
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That was mostly the case, yes.
 
The Corinthian said:
I think there’s an element of potential but by in large you’d expect them to hit the ground running. Might not be the best example, but we signed Amad Diallo for potential. Sancho, we signed because he was delivering in the BL (as was Havertz), although due to their age there was an element of potential too.

Havertz had a very average to poor first season with you (but wrote himself into Chelsea history getting the goal in the CL). He’s been better this season, but only because he’s playing as a number 9…which itself is only because both Werner and Lukaku have been awful.
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Fair enough, I guess we just see things differently.

Yeah, Sancho and Havertz have quality right now, but United and Chelsea paid the big money because of the players they think they can become, not the players they were at the time of the purchase. They were 21 with limited experience.

He struggled last season, of course and fell below even the more basic expectations at times (there were some extenuating circumstances that has been rehashed in the Havertz thread many times) but as you say, he found form at the right time last season and wrote himself into Chelsea history and he's been in sparkling form for like 2 months now since the turn of the year.

The whole reason I responded to you was because you included him in a list of wasted money when, from what it sounds like, you don't really believe that yourself.
 
Stacks said:
wrong. In Italy they play with more tactical intelligence, where as England is more chaotic. Lukaku is a student of the game so aligns with Italy's superior football
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True that. If only PL defenders would think more and defend less, it would be a lot easier.
 
WeePat said:
Fair enough, I guess we just see things differently.

Yeah, Sancho and Havertz have quality right now, but United and Chelsea paid the big money because of the players they think they can become, not the players they were at the time of the purchase. They were 21 with limited experience.

He struggled last season, of course and fell below even the more basic expectations at times (there were some extenuating circumstances that has been rehashed in the Havertz thread many times) but as you say, he found form at the right time last season and wrote himself into Chelsea history and he's been in sparkling form for like 2 months now since the turn of the year.

The whole reason I responded to you was because you included him in a list of wasted money when, from what it sounds like, you don't really believe that yourself.
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I think 2 months of good form for £72m isn’t money well spent. But having said that, if he continues this on for the rest of his Chelsea career then it’ll look like a bargain. I think out of the list posted earlier, he’s probably the one that has done best (low bar mind you!).
 
The Corinthian said:
I think 2 months of good form for £72m isn’t money well spent. But having said that, if he continues this on for the rest of his Chelsea career then it’ll look like a bargain. I think out of the list posted earlier, he’s probably the one that has done best (low bar mind you!).
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You're a hard man to please :lol:

I suppose I fundamentally disagree with labelling something waste of money when they haven't had time to fulfil their potential. No-one in their right mind should label Sancho that 8 months into his United career. Havertz is 18 months into his Chelsea career.
 
TenonTen said:
Can your 8 year old or even you score goals and win games at the top flight??
Stop disregarding stats, especially when that stat is goals scored.

I'm not Lukaku's biggest fan at all but goals is literally the most important thing in the game and wins you things.

Lukaku got credit because he was a good goalscorer. Not the most well rounded forward but he has a pretty good scoring record throughout his career.

The toughest thing in the game is putting the ball in the back of the net.

I know it's "cool" these days to disregard goals to show "Oh I am a sophisticated Football fan". Goals will always be king. Why is Haaland more in demand than a Foden?

And before people come at me, I dislike Lukaku but it's pretty clear to see why he was rated and so many clubs have bought him.
Click to expand...

The point is goal stats are held up as the be all and end all which simply isn't the case and is a reductive argument. Is havertz a better 'goalscorer' than lukaku? The stats would suggest not however Chelsea are a better team, score more goals as a whole and most importantly win more games with havertz up front over lukaku

lukakus goal stats are also padded by coming about in poorer competitions - especially his international record and his poor record in games against top level teams is often dismissed because the overwhelming stat looks impressive. He has a certain set of skills suited to a certain style and IMHO a certain level of competition

He's welcome to put himself in the company of genuinely great players - top level sportsmen need that kind of mindstate however having watched him week in week during his time at united and indeed at other clubs in England there's no question in my mind he is a (relatively) poor footballer at this level, I wouldn't want him anywhere near my team and I would absolutely pick my son to play over him
 
Havertz starting to look like the player they paid big for.



Where as Lukaku prob one of the worse big name players I can think of. Would not matter to me how many he scores, he is so limited, can't do the basics right and has no big game or big moment pedigree.


I'm imaging the Chelsea men are having the same feeling I was having watching him play for us :lol:
 
TenonTen said:
Can your 8 year old or even you score goals and win games at the top flight??
Stop disregarding stats, especially when that stat is goals scored.

I'm not Lukaku's biggest fan at all but goals is literally the most important thing in the game and wins you things.

Lukaku got credit because he was a good goalscorer. Not the most well rounded forward but he has a pretty good scoring record throughout his career.

The toughest thing in the game is putting the ball in the back of the net.

I know it's "cool" these days to disregard goals to show "Oh I am a sophisticated Football fan". Goals will always be king. Why is Haaland more in demand than a Foden?

And before people come at me, I dislike Lukaku but it's pretty clear to see why he was rated and so many clubs have bought him.
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Because Haaland has a release clause and Foden is at a club he loves who don't sell their best players, what would be the point of going after him? Would be a waste of time and energy.

Goals don't exist in a vacuum, there's many actions that come before the goalscoring chance and Lukaku and many other poachers are poor at those which is why they cannot hold down places in top teams no matter how much they score.

Yes Lukaku (atleast in the past) slots it home when he gets the chances 9 times out of 10 but there's a reason teams he plays for struggle with chance creation and there's a reason his only major title has come under a manager who had people believing Victor Moses transformed himself into a world class wingback.
 
Dancfc said:
Because Haaland has a release clause and Foden is at a club he loves who don't sell their best players, what would be the point of going after him? Would be a waste of time and energy.

Goals don't exist in a vacuum, there's many actions that come before the goalscoring chance and Lukaku and many other poachers are poor at those which is why they cannot hold down places in top teams no matter how much they score.

Yes Lukaku (atleast in the past) slots it home when he gets the chances 9 times out of 10 but there's a reason teams he plays for struggle with chance creation and there's a reason his only major title has come under a manager who had people believing Victor Moses transformed himself into a world class wingback.
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The thing is, that seeing Lukaku as a poacher is totally wrong. It happens because of his body, but when you look at how he scores most of his goals you'll see that he is just a more bulky Timo Werner, but his skills simply aren't that of a poacher.
 
stefan92 said:
The thing is, that seeing Lukaku as a poacher is totally wrong. It happens because of his body, but when you look at how he scores most of his goals you'll see that he is just a more bulky Timo Werner, but his skills simply aren't that of a poacher.
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Fair enough but the point remains if he's not scoring there's a very big question mark on what the hell he's bringing to the table, sometimes even when he does net there's question marks on whether it's outweighing the cons (lack of fluidity, pressing and general chance creation). For example the game at home to Brighton this season he got a goal but his lack of workrate was also a big reason Brighton passed it around us for most of the second half.

I don't think there's a comparison with Werner either. Last season despite his horrors infront of goal his pressing, workrate and movement was very useful tactically (its why he carried on playing any game of note).

There was a moment in the second half yesterday where I saw Havertz moving around to try and gain an advantage on the Real defenders while Lukaku stayed in the same position.
 
League goals scored by Chelsea's "number 9" players, in the last 15 seasons:

- 2006/07 Khalid Boulahrouz: 0
- 2007/08 Steve Sidwell: 0
- 2008/09 & 2009/10 Franco Di Santo: 0 + 0
- From 2010/11 to 2014/15 Fernando Torres 1 + 6 + 8 + 5 + 0
- 2015/16 Radamel Falcao: 1
- 2017/18 Alvaro Morata 11
- 2018/19 Gonzalo Higuain 5
- 2019/20 & 2020/21 Tammy Abraham 15 + 6
- 2021/22 Romelu Lukaku: 5

Overall goal scored by players who wore the number 9 in the last 15 years: 63; On average: 4,46 goal per season

I just proved it's not his fault but that shirt is cursed and he's clearly victim of it like all the previous "owners".
In any case with his FIVE Premier League goal scored this season Romelu Lukaku has OUTSCORED the previous no.9 Chelsea players (5 > 4,46). Well done Big Rom
 
The Corinthian said:
£60m on Pulisic
£45m on Werner
£72m on Havertz

Before I’m quoted by rabid Chelsea fans, Havertz has been ok as of late, but you all were expecting more for £72m.
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Honestly Havertz would go for that amount right now, the only reason people consider him a disappointment is that everyone expected him to be a 10 when he's a CF.
 
Markolan said:
League goals scored by Chelsea's "number 9" players, in the last 15 seasons:

- 2006/07 Khalid Boulahrouz: 0
- 2007/08 Steve Sidwell: 0
- 2008/09 & 2009/10 Franco Di Santo: 0 + 0
- From 2010/11 to 2014/15 Fernando Torres 1 + 6 + 8 + 5 + 0
- 2015/16 Radamel Falcao: 1
- 2017/18 Alvaro Morata 11
- 2018/19 Gonzalo Higuain 5
- 2019/20 & 2020/21 Tammy Abraham 15 + 6
- 2021/22 Romelu Lukaku: 5

Overall goal scored by players who wore the number 9 in the last 15 years: 63; On average: 4,46 goal per season

I just proved it's not his fault but that shirt is cursed and he's clearly victim of it like all the previous "owners".
In any case with his FIVE Premier League goal scored this season Romelu Lukaku has OUTSCORED the previous no.9 Chelsea players (5 > 4,46). Well done Big Rom
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His last season for us was basically the same as it's now at Chelsea. When he starts to cry there's no going back
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Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Honestly Havertz would go for that amount right now, the only reason people consider him a disappointment is that everyone expected him to be a 10 when he's a CF.
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I never had any doubts with Havertz. I got criticised for pointing it out at the time but his very bad Covid was a mitigating factor as was getting moved from striker to accommodate Lukaku (a mistake Tuchel thankfully appears to be rectifying).

If we leave him alone in that area now we will get an elite forward that I am certain.
 
Dancfc said:
I never had any doubts with Havertz. I got criticised for pointing it out at the time but his very bad Covid was a mitigating factor as was getting moved from striker to accommodate Lukaku (a mistake Tuchel thankfully appears to be rectifying).

If we leave him alone in that area now we will get an elite forward that I am certain.
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Havertz isn’t going to be elite in my opinion
 
Red_Aaron said:
there's no question in my mind he is a (relatively) poor footballer at this level, I wouldn't want him anywhere near my team and I would absolutely pick my son to play over him
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In which league does your son play now.
 
Dancfc said:
I don't think there's a comparison with Werner either. Last season despite his horrors infront of goal his pressing, workrate and movement was very useful tactically (its why he carried on playing any game of note).
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Let's say Lukaku is like a bulky lazy Werner than :lol:
Point is, both are best when they can run to the goal, ball in front of them. Lukaku can bully away defenders, Werner can outrun most of them, but in the end both are best when they can finish counter attacks and similar stuff. Playing with the back to the goal? Just horrible.
 
Stacks said:
wrong. In Italy they play with more tactical intelligence, where as England is more chaotic. Lukaku is a student of the game so aligns with Italy's superior football
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Not sure if serious
 
Markolan said:
League goals scored by Chelsea's "number 9" players, in the last 15 seasons:

- 2006/07 Khalid Boulahrouz: 0
- 2007/08 Steve Sidwell: 0
- 2008/09 & 2009/10 Franco Di Santo: 0 + 0
- From 2010/11 to 2014/15 Fernando Torres 1 + 6 + 8 + 5 + 0
- 2015/16 Radamel Falcao: 1
- 2017/18 Alvaro Morata 11
- 2018/19 Gonzalo Higuain 5
- 2019/20 & 2020/21 Tammy Abraham 15 + 6
- 2021/22 Romelu Lukaku: 5

Overall goal scored by players who wore the number 9 in the last 15 years: 63; On average: 4,46 goal per season

I just proved it's not his fault but that shirt is cursed and he's clearly victim of it like all the previous "owners".
In any case with his FIVE Premier League goal scored this season Romelu Lukaku has OUTSCORED the previous no.9 Chelsea players (5 > 4,46). Well done Big Rom
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Boulahrouz and sidwell wore no 9? What a pair of wankers.

Also pretty sure Di Santo is someone you made up just now.
 
Neville's been quiet since those first few games of the season.
 
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