Yep - forgot him! He'd be my number 6
Would be surprised if most people didn't have players like Auba & Firmino above Lukaku, then it's a turkey shoot
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Yep - forgot him! He'd be my number 6
Would be surprised if most people didn't have players like Auba & Firmino above Lukaku, then it's a turkey shoot
Van Nistelrooy got 16 goals for us in single goal games, in the 65 games he scored in. Lukaku has 2 in 24.
In Alex Ferguson's words, 1-0 victories win you the league. You need someone to drag you over the line when you're not playing well. Some people think a goal is a goal but scoring in games we win 3-0 or 4-1 is not going to make the difference in a title run in.
It's a very childish line of argument to simply say 'well Aguero doesn't score every chance he gets either' when anyone questions Lukaku's finishing. No he doesn't, but he does score more of them, especially in tight games.
Why not? When we were a top team we had an abundance of forwards on his level. If we want to get back there we need to have them again.
Name me the strikers on Aguero’s level.
But look at whose top of the list..
What? World class forwards we have had in the PL era?
We've had plenty:
Van Persie
Rooney
Ronaldo
Van Nistelrooy
Cantona
Yorke
Cole
Hughes
You could also make a case for certain others.
I've been asking this question for a few weeks
No, he didn’t get three great chances. Every single striker in world football misses chances, this notion that Aguero would’ve got a hat trick for us against Arsenal is pathetic. He had bagged a couple of braces before that. I think long term he probably isn’t good enough to be a starter for us, but let’s not devalue and exaggerate his contribution.
I am talking about active players in world football.
No more childish than suggesting someone like Aguero would definitely finish it. We’ve got more than enough evidence to disprove that.
2 great chances + 1 very good chance then.
The whole Vardy > Lukaku based on that stat is a fallacy.
Leicester are a midtable side primed for counterattacking football which is Vardy's strong suit. All top 6 sides will attack them and get exposed to a potential Vardy goal. Stick Vardy in a top 6 side and his record against the Top 6 wouldn't be anywhere near as good.
I agree you want Lukaku to be doing better against Top 6, but let's not forget our approach to those games has been extremely negative throughout his time with us.
The keeper also plays. Kane couldn't score against us. I don't remember Salah ever scoring against us. The only guy out there who always scores against anyone is Kun, but we've known that for almost a decade now and no one seems to have found another one.2 great chances + 1 very good chance then.
Bunch of Sherlocks.
Nonsense! How many did RVN or Ronaldo score against the big teams?
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Lukaku has been great recently and gotten us through when we needed him.
BUT his record against the top 6 is a big worry and issue.
BUT his record against the top 6 is a big worry and issue.
If 4 chances are considered several then Lukaku got about 3 chances against Arsenal and missed them so you can't put the blame on him not getting many chances to score or just one.
All strikers will miss. How much they miss is the problem.
11101, why do you keep mentioning Aguero? Have you seen his goalscoring record? It's insane, honestly insane.
Even most of those strikers you mentioned were not as good as him, and those were strikers we had for about a period of two decades.
We don't necessary need Aguero to win the league because there are not many that is as good as him. If we want to be beating City and the top dogs to the title, then we have to be be as good as them. That includes improving the whole squad to be as good as theirs and having a manager that is as good as theirs, not just adding a striker that scores in 0-0 draws or one that scores when the whole team doesn't score. Whether Lukaku is good enough for that squad remains to be seem, but that is the case for the whole players too. He has proven to be a top striker though, and that is as far as I know.
Even most of those strikers you mentioned were not as good as him, and those were strikers we had for about a period of two decades.
We don't necessary need Aguero to win the league because there are not many that is as good as him. If we want to be beating City and the top dogs to the title, then we have to be be as good as them. That includes improving the whole squad to be as good as theirs and having a manager that is as good as theirs, not just adding a striker that scores in 0-0 draws or one that scores when the whole team doesn't score. Whether Lukaku is good enough for that squad remains to be seem, but that is the case for the whole players too. He has proven to be a top striker though, and that is as far as I know.
Because he's the standard.
It's all about making the difference. It's good to have a striker who scores 2 or 3 in a 4-0 drubbing, but there we're creating chances for fun and it doesn't take much to score in those games. We need the player who when we're having a shocker, they might not get near the ball for 60 minutes, but when there's a half chance will pop up on the edge of the box and make something happen. It takes a particular type of player to do that and it's not always the most prolific one, but we've always had it and right now we don't.
It's the same thing as a goalkeeper who looks like a superhero being peppered with shots all game, but the really top goalkeeper is the one who doesn't have a save to make all game until they prevent an equaliser in stoppage time.
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Yes the keeper did brilliantly to make Lukaku hit the bar from 2 yards out.
The Lukaku debate is becoming very similar to the Mourinho debate and it will end the same way. Only question is whether it's this summer or next.
So Weds wasnt a 'big' enough occasion for you? He is want he is. He'll continue to divide opinions but he is not alone. That said, Im sure you like others will celebrate when he scores, yet lambast him when we lose cause if we had beaten Arsenal, none of the negative stuff would have been wrote. No change there then as its that the true reflection of a modern day football fan where losing brings out the worst in them.
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Sure Aguero is good, but don't you think Messi should be the standard? I mean Aguero is not a patch on Messi, and we aspire to be the best, don't we?
Anyway Lukaku has actually made the difference many times in games where we needed him. In our last four games for example, he has scored goals that won us three of those games. That is 'making the difference'.
This kind of logic can twisted and turned no matter what though. You're looking down on him for being happy when he scores but not rating him when he misses chances and saying as such?
If he was still upset when Lukaku scores that would be (rightfully) frowned upon. If someone else had scored goals and we beat Arsenal the Lukaku misses would have been mentioned and someone would say to stop focussing on the negative. If he'd scored some goals but also missed the sitters anyone mentioning it would be jumped on.
Basically no one can ever have a criticism once a few people get really into defending a certain player.
It is a shocking record, hard to defend as it ranges from Everton to recently at United. Many blamed Jose's use of Lukaku but it stems from before then and was a source of anxiety for United fans. I would like to ask a Belgian if its a similar case for Belgium i.e. plundering goals vs low level opp as in the world cup, then no goals when the going gets tougher. who knows? If we have top scoring wingers then it really would not make a difference (e.g. Mbappe, Salah, Sterling, Pepe), but we don't. We have 2 young ones under 21 who still need to refine their game.
In his defence it could be a few things;
i)mental - the weight and expectation, coupled with the dire record is making him anxious, getting on his mind and affecting his play.
ii) tightness of games - the lack of multiple clear cut chances meaning he has to be clinical, or create a goal from a half chance or out of nowhere through exceptional play (long shot, dribble, taking pot shots like Kane)
iii) improved defences - speaks for itself.
All in all, it's nothing we did not know already about Rom when we signed him so here we are. Maybe we could bench him for those games and stick Rashers up top as he has an excellent record against them for his age, experience and position (8 goals and 2 assists in 17 starts in PL against City/Chelsea/Liv/Ars/Spurs.
I get people would love us to have a WC striker but they are in short supply. This isn't the 90's where you had abundance in Serie A alone. We can rotate Lukaku and Rashford who are and will be a level or maybe 2 below WC. So long as our wide players and Pogba can hurt teams, we can challenge. Liverpool have Firmino upfront
.I think we may aswell stick, unless some next Brazilian/Argentine/French wonderkid comes along
We scored 9 goals in those three games, certainly in two of them we would have won regardless.
Making the difference would have been scoring that sitter at 0-0 vs. Arsenal.
You think Lukaku only scores/assists when we get easy wins?
Lukakus goals+assists this year:
1 vs Brighton - 3:2 lose (didn't win us points but not an 3/4:0 win)
2 vs Burnley - 0:2 win (draw without his goals)
1 vs Watford - 1:2 win (draw without his goal)
1 vs Young Boys - 1:0 win (draw without his assist)
1 vs Southampton - 2:2 draw (lose without his goal)
1 vs Fulham - 4:1 win (doesn't change anything)
1 vs Bournemouth - 4:1 win (doesn't change anything)
1 vs Newcastle - 0:2 win (opening goal after 60 hard minutes, first contact after subbed in)
2 vs Arsenal - 1:3 win (2 very good, important assists)
2 vs Crystal Palace - 1:3 win (draw without goals)
2 vs Southampton - 3:2 win (lose without goals)
2 vs PSG - 1:3 win (out of Cl with his goals)
I don't want to discuss about the quality of his finishing, it's imo not good enough. But your opinion, that he should score more goals in games where they are needed, is clearly wrong.
I am happy that we have to discuss the quality of his finishing. I prefer my striker to get into these positions and don't finish them instead of not even getting the positions. There were times this season, where he just seemed to be lost, out of the game, not fit. Right now he is very good in hold up and is getting himself in good positions often. That is a good sign. On good days he will finish most of them like against Crystal Palace or PSG, on normal days he will miss a few and finish others very good like against Southampton and when he is having an off day something like vs. Arsenal will happen.
I think we should not discuss if he is good enough when playing like the last few games - because then he clearly is. But my fear is that his form will not be like that over a whole season. Romelu seems to be not very consistent.
Everything can be twisted to any logic and often does on here depending on simply your opinion of a player. If you dont rate a player, your focus is on what he cant do, if you like the player, the focus is on what he can do. Rom will divide opinions but aside from DDG, thats pretty applicable to most players but even more when we lose. I get that but surely if hes not good enough, thats applies when he scores and we win too? People dont post stuff like that because they know how foolish it looks to talk about his ability to score after a game where he just has, so they wait to make that criticism when he doesnt. Rom goal scoring is more consistent than peoples opinions on here....
PSG was an outlier not the trend nor even an indication that things might change for the future seeing how he fluffed it against Arsenal. You're grasping at straws. He has 6 goals in 53 games against top six opposition and your retort to me is "b-b-but PSG!!"
So its shocking to you that if he's performing people will celebrate and that when he doesn't he will get criticised accordingly? oh my, the horrors modern day football fans are capable of!!
Such a bizarre post
I'm not sure what your issue is. Most of the comments will be on the latest game. Any decent fan, whatever that means, will be happy when he scores, even if they don't really rate him overall. It would be far more damning of said poster if they weren't like that.
You're missing the point of what I'm saying. In a 4-1 win do you think it was difficult for us? We'd win with any decent striker. We need someone who can drag us to a win when the rest of the team isn't performing.
Forgetting whether the fact the team hasn't been particularly brilliant recently is down to him being back or not.
???
Think i didn't miss the point, but maybe you. I pointed out all his scorers. Only 2 in "easy" wins, the other scorers were in games we didn't win without problems. Listed all the goals...
Nobody should be taking RVN anywhere in this thread. When it comes to finishing he is the ice man. Always sends the defender the wrong with a touch or two and scores.
I really don't think EPL has seen a better finisher. There could be better well rounder strikers but RVN is the coolest finisher I have seen.
United should be looking for someone who is way better than Lukkaku because he is very poor.
I really don't think EPL has seen a better finisher. There could be better well rounder strikers but RVN is the coolest finisher I have seen.
United should be looking for someone who is way better than Lukkaku because he is very poor.
So you can't be good but not a top player? If
Issue? No doubt in my mind in the slightest that these comments about his ability become more apparent when we lose...
PSG was an outlier not the trend nor even an indication that things might change for the future seeing how he fluffed it against Arsenal. You're grasping at straws. He has 6 goals in 53 games against top six opposition and your retort to me is "b-b-but PSG!!"
So its shocking to you that if he's performing people will celebrate and that when he doesn't he will get criticised accordingly? oh my, the horrors modern day football fans are capable of!!
Such a bizarre post
Bizarre, nah just an observation. Its amazing how people can hold Ole up in such high esteem but equally how stupid he must be in putting his faith in a player like Rom. That stupidity goes beyond Ole too. His international coach stupidity in playing the country's leading goal scorer in the WC. How stupid these people are when compared to the expert opinion on here....
Nope because both are subjective. Not sure what qualifies good and top player? I'll leave Ole and his back room staff to ultimately make that decision.
oh gee wow, what a compelling argument.
managers are not infallible, and Ole especially has a long way to go at establishing and proving himself still, and that's without mentioning they have to work with the players and quality available to them.
I never said Lukaku is the worst player to walk the earth or anything close to that, I actually said he's useful from time to time, my position is that he's not good enough to take United to the heights United should be reaching.
He scored when the game was deadlocked against PSG, Palace and Southampton - as he should have done against Arsenal, so you are actually proving what I said. If he didn't make the difference with his six goals in those games, then we'd have won none, drawn two and would have been knocked out of the UCL. The difference between the Arsenal game and the Southampton, Palace, PSG games is that Lukaku delivered when we needed him in the other three and provided the platform for other players to score unlike at Arsenal where he failed to deliver.
You seem to be under the impression that every one goal game is a tight game and every game that has more than one goal is not. That might be true in terms of scoreline, but completely misleading on how the game actually played out. We created enough chances to score over one goal against Arsenal, and PSG for example is easily the tightest among those four games in terms of chances. We had three chances the whole game, but it has us scoring three goals. Lukaku converted 2/2 chances and won us the game. That is 'making the difference'. Man City on the other hand battered Bournemouth but won 1-0 thanks to Mahrez. It was the same against West Ham when Aguero won it with a pen. The West Ham scoreline has Aguero making the difference in a tight game, when in reality he converted a pen in a game that was filled with chances for him and his team, all of which were unno, missed like Lukaku does at times.
So you are struggling to deduce the difference between tight games and tight scorelines. Lukaku scored the winner against Southampton and broke the deadlock against Southampton(twice), Palace, PSG, Watford, Burnley, Reading, Newcasle this season. That is textbook 'making the difference' by your 0-0-against-Arsenal definition.
I don't know why you expect anything else to be the case to be honest. Granted some people sway with the wind, but it really depends on whether they're commenting on him as a whole or on the last game.
Well yeah, ideally when we replace him it will be for someone better. Genius ominous prediction.
You were banging on about goal droughts in several posts since the match ended. And then when @Brwned gives you a good example of how RVN had quite a few as well as most strikers do, you ignore it and go on to talk about all the other aspects of his game which you don't like. Why is it so difficult to concede that you weren't right on a certain point?
But then again, I shouldn't expect much from someone who starts of a reply like this: "Oh gee wow, what a compelling argument".
I mean, receipts are readily available:
Also, you're exactly right, you shouldn't expect anything from me, i'm not your father. If someone's argument comes down to "managers are wise and all knowing" I reserve the right to find that amusing.
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