[Bobski]

He would be great as a back up to a real top line forward, his minnow devouring skills are of value.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

38 touches, gave it away 18 times.

I honestly expected his give-aways to be higher than that.

 

[Bwuk]

It's one thing being happy with his goal output for the season, and another being disappointed in him as a player and his performances on the pitch, especially in big games. Is it a good season if he scores 35 goals in a season, but none against the top 6 teams, none in the champions league knockout phase, none in the semi's or final of the FA Cup? It really isn't. He can score 40 goals against the bottom half sides but if he does that badly against anyone decent, then no amount of goals against shit teams will change that.

Agreed. Lukaku has been the definition of stat padding.

Look at Zlatans performance in the EFL Cup Final to win it for us last year. Lukaku wouldn’t turn up and people would post on here bemoaning service.

 

[el3mel]

He doesn't win much aerial duels because his timing in jumping is terrible. He either jumps too late or too early.

We had 1 or 3 games left in CL and 4 big games in the league. If he didn't score in any of them, that will be pretty underwhelming tbf.

 

[Dec9003]

I don't see how any blame can fall on him tonight. We pinged balls up to him from our own half and expected him to take the ball down and score all on his own. Sanchez and Mata were sitting deep and giving him nothing. It's stupid because Sanchez and Lukaku looked to be linking up quite well, so let's put a 40 yard gap between them.
People will complain about him, and act like he's a part of the problem, but it's the style of play. We need to start playing on the front foot to get the most out of our players.

 

[FootyGirl88]

He's not the type of striker you can trust in the knockout stages of a competition, you need someone clinical that you know will get one good chance and score. That chance Sanchez created for him would be bread and butter for RVP, Henry, Rooney, RVN etc

 

[Jaybomb]

Zlatan might have scored that volley.

 

[Vernon Philander]

Zlatan needs to hurry back to full fitness!!

Even if not the long term solution, he'll at least push Lukaku for competition

 

[Bwuk]

Zlatan needs to hurry back to full fitness!!

Even if not the long term solution, he'll at least push Lukaku for competition

He won’t.

 

[Tapori]

You can see his overall play has improved. I'll give him another season before making a definite call.
Had some decent build-up play but that cutting edge for the chance and the misplaced ball from the left wing to an onrushing Martial on the right were real letdowns

 

[Stadjer]

He's not the type of striker you can trust in the knockout stages of a competition, you need someone clinical that you know will get one good chance and score. That chance Sanchez created for him would be bread and butter for RVP, Henry, Rooney, RVN etc

Just 4 of the best strikers in EPL history.. Lukaku is not on that level and never will be. He should have done better with that chance though

 

[BluesJr]

Between now and the end of the season, there is going to be a big moment where he is presented with a huge chance, if he takes it I think he can start to move forward. He needs something to help him psychologically step up.

 

[goin4glory]

Cut our losses and break the bank for Kane or give minutes to Rashford and let him develop. Lukaku is a waste of space.

 

[Ashley R1+O]

Genuinely lost for words at the reaction here. Absolutely, one hundred percent bizarre.

We need to stop fanging the ball up to him from anywhere on the field and expecting him to do something with a low% pass as our outlet.

 

[Baby Groot]

Offers absolute nothing, against anyone half deciant If I was the manager I would drop him and play Rashford as the main man.

 

[automaticflare]

You can see his overall play has improved. I'll give him another season before making a definite call.
Had some decent build-up play but that cutting edge for the chance and the misplaced ball from the left wing to an onrushing Martial on the right were real letdowns

I’m a lot more concerned about how his hold up play is not improving

In games like tonight he needs to hold up the ball so much better to allow us to counter attack

 

[automaticflare]

Genuinely lost for words at the reaction here. Absolutely, one hundred percent bizarre.

We need to stop fanging the ball up to him from anywhere on the field and expecting him to do something with a low% pass as our outlet.

Agree it has to improve to enable him to score more but basic hold up was terrible today I thought. That is fundamental to a counter attacking team

Come on big rom

 

[Bobcat]

It's a reason why Chelsea got rid of him and it seems Everton was about his level. All i see is excuses made for him, it's either the other players or Jose or the tea lady.

How about we judge him like everyone else and look at his on field contributions?

Hes currently at 22(5) at 2865 minutes played, that's a goal or assist every 106 minutes. Rashford is at 12(5) in 1584 which is a goal or assist every 93 minutes and Martial is at 12(6), a goal or assist every 89 minutes. Then you factor in that both of those two are younger than him, they have been asked too play all over the place while Lukaku has been playing his favored position all year.

Both of those two has been getting the dogs abuse here, one is to lazy and the other is too greedy. That will get better as they mature. What i can't see is what Lukaku is supposed to bring that those two can't?

 

[Greck]

Was okay in the first half. You could legitimately make an argument for a lack of service as he didn't put a foot wrong. Then came the second half where everything bounced off him, he stopped winning ariel duels and started misplacing passes.

Lack of service is a factor but most of the criticism comes from his quality of play when he does see the ball. A top striker could need 2 to 4 moments of service to score but shouldn't need 2 to 4 tries to control a pass or register a successful holdup. Poor service can't absolve him of his deficiencies and Jose has to cop some blame.

By now we all have a good idea of his limitations so why does Jose persist when Lukaku's skillset is clearly at odds with his big game tactics? He clearly can't play as a targetman hub and even turns to mush when isolated.

 

[BenjaminP]

Was okay in the first half. You could legitimately make an argument for a lack of service as he didn't put a foot wrong. Then came the second half where everything bounced off him, he stopped winning ariel duels and started misplacing passes.

Lack of service is a factor but most of the criticism comes from his quality of play when he does see the ball. A top striker could need 2 to 4 moments of service to score but shouldn't need 2 to 4 tries to control a pass or register a successful holdup. Poor service can't absolve him of his deficiencies and Jose has to cop some blame.

By now we all have a good idea of his limitations so why does Jose persist when Lukaku's skillset is clearly at odds with his big game tactics? He clearly can't play as a targetman hub and even turns to mush when isolated.

This is what pisses me off when I see Lukaku play. I don't criticize him for lack of goals due to lack of service.
He has been very wasteful when it comes to passing, holding, linking up with others. He doesn't seem to win that much ariel duel too, which is shocking.

 

[arnie_ni]

He doesn't win much aerial duels because his timing in jumping is terrible. He either jumps too late or too early.

We had 1 or 3 games left in CL and 4 big games in the league. If he didn't score in any of them, that will be pretty underwhelming tbf.

This. He misjudges the flight of the ball probably 75 percent of the time.

 

[Brwned]

It's one thing being happy with his goal output for the season, and another being disappointed in him as a player and his performances on the pitch, especially in big games. Is it a good season if he scores 35 goals in a season, but none against the top 6 teams, none in the champions league knockout phase, none in the semi's or final of the FA Cup? It really isn't. He can score 40 goals against the bottom half sides but if he does that badly against anyone decent, then no amount of goals against shit teams will change that.

Our biggest problem last season was not being able to beat the smaller teams in tight games. This season we're in 2nd in large part because we don't have that issue any more. If his goal record was built up by scoring a bunch of hat tricks in 5-0 wins then I would understand your point, but that isn't what's happening. His record is:

Madrid - scored to make it 1-2
West Ham - scored to make it 1-0 and 2-0
Lukaku - scored to make it 2-0
Stoke - scored to make it 2-1
Basel - scored to make it 2-0
Everton - scored to make it 3-0
Southampton - scored to make it 1-0
CSKA - scored to make it 1-0 and 3-0
Crystal Palace - scored to make it 4-0
Newcastle - scored to make it 4-1
Bourenmouth - scored to make it 1-0
CSKA - scored to make it 1-1
West Brom - scored to make it 1-0
Derby - scored to make it 2-0
Stoke - scored to make it 3-0
Yeovil - scored to make it 4-0
Huddersfield - scored to make it 1-0
Huddersfield - scored to make it 1-0 and 2-0

So that's 9 opening, equalising or winning goals, 6 goals to give us some breathing room at 2-0, 5 goals which were inconsequential at 3+ goals up, and 1 consolation goal against Madrid.

Compare that to Kane this season...

Everton - scored to make it 1-0 and 3-0
Dortmund - scored to make it 2-1 and 3-1
West Ham - scored to make it 1-0 and 2-0
Apoel - scored to make it 1-0, 2-0 and 3-0
Huddersfield - scored to make it 1-0 and 3-0
Liverpool - scored to make it 1-0 and 4-1
Dortmund - scored to make it 1-1
West Brom - scored to make it 1-1
Leicester - scored to make it 1-2
Stoke - scored to make it 3-0 and 4-0
Burnley - scored to make it 1-0, 2-0 and 3-0
Southampton - scored to make it 1-0, 2-0 and 5-1
Wimbledon - scored to make it 1-0 and 2-0
Everton - scored to make it 2-0 and 3-0
Southampton - scored to make it 1-1
Newport - scored to make it 1-1
Liverpool - scored to make it 2-2
Arsenal - scored to make it 1-0
Juventus - scored to make it 1-2
Rochdale - scored to make it 2-1

So that's 16 opening, equalising or winning goals, 7 goals to give them some breathing room at 2-0, 8 goals which were inconsequential at 3+ goals up, and 1 consolation goal against Leicester.

And finally compare that to Ronaldo in 07/08, at the same point in the season...

Sporting - scored to make it 1-0
Birmingham - scored to make it 1-0
Wigan - scored to make it 2-0 and 3-0
Dynamo Kyiv - scored to make it 3-1 and 4-1
Arsenal - scored to make it 2-1
Dynamo Kyiv - scored to make it 4-0
Blackburn - scored to make it 1-0 and 2-0
Sporting - scored to make it 2-1
Fulham - scored to make it 1-0 and 2-0
Everton - scored to make it 1-0 and 2-1
Sunderland - scored to make it 3-0
West Ham - scored to make it 1-0
Newcastle - scored to make it 1-0, 3-0 and 5-0
Reading - scored to make it 2-0
Portsmouth - scored to make it 1-0 and 2-0
Newcastle - scored to make it 2-0 and 3-0

So that's 11 opening, equalising or winning goals, 7 goals to give us some breathing room at 2-0 and 7 goals which were inconsequential at 3+ goals up.

So I think it's fair to say that Lukaku isn't quite up to either Kane or Ronaldo's level in terms of output, in terms of being a pure matchwinner, but everything after that is exceedingly high expectations.

When Ronaldo was the best player in the world he had managed just 1 goal in a big game against Arsenal at this stage. In reality scoring goals in big games is hard for every player. Expecting them to excel in these games is just expecting too much, really.

Once you establish that, the idea that he's a flat track bully falls flat on its face. Because Ronaldo wasn't a flat track bully. Yet Lukaku's distribution of goals is actually very similar to Ronaldo's in terms of winning points and the types of teams he scores again. He's just less prolific. Which I think we can accept given this is being compared against the most prolific season in United's history.

 

[Bwuk]

Lukaku is nowhere near the player Ronaldo or Kane are, a completely laughable use of stats.

 

[KM]

Lukaku is nowhere near the player Ronaldo or Kane are, a completely laughable use of stats.

That wasn't his fecking point and even said so in the post. Please actually read the posts before disregarding them so abruptly.

 

[Brwned]

Lukaku is nowhere near the player Ronaldo or Kane are, a completely laughable use of stats.

I don't think you understood the point being made. It certainly wasn't a comparison of how good they are as players. For what it's worth, Ronaldo was called a flat track bully then too. People like to complain.

 

[roonster09]

Lukaku's contribution.

I made the same point so many times, sometimes it's not worth it because people have already made up their mind.

Quoting my post from Jan 4th.

Morata scored 1, Lukaku assisted 1 both winners.

Regarding scoring at important times:
Vs West Ham - First 2 goals in 4-0 win
Vs Swansea - Scored 2nd goal
Vs Stoke - Scored goal to put us in 2-1 lead
Vs Everton - Assisted Mkhitaryan to make it 2-0
Vs Southamptoin - Scored only goal in 1-0 win
Vs Huddersfield - assisted only goal in 2-1 loss
Vs Spurs - Assisted only goal in 1-0 win
Vs Bournemouth - Scored only goal in 1-0 win
Vs West Brom - Scored first goal to make it 1-0 in 2-1 win

This is ignoring his contribution to goals against Arsenal to make it 2-0, or against Newcastle to make it 3-1.

In CL,
Scored goal vs Basel to make it 2-0 at home
Scored first and third goal to make it 1-0 and 3-0 vs CSKA away
Scored equalising goal to make it 1-1 vs CSKA home.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

The people that are criticizing him, what is it you actually want from Lukaku? He isn't an Aguero type that will break the channels with runs etc. His game is hold up play, strength and being imposing in the air.

His overall play has massively improved in the last few months and he was good again last night. Doesn't help him that in most games we fire long balls up to him much like Everton did. The attacking support he gets is horrendous and a massive part of our problems.

Overall he is fine. It's the tactics and support which are a lot more to blame.

 

[Bobcat]

The people that are criticizing him, what is it you actually want from Lukaku? He isn't an Aguero type that will break the channels with runs etc. His game is hold up play, strength and being imposing in the air.

His overall play has massively improved in the last few months and he was good again last night. Doesn't help him that in most games we fire long balls up to him much like Everton did. The attacking support he gets is horrendous and a massive part of our problems.

Overall he is fine. It's the tactics and support which are a lot more to blame.

What we want is him contributing more in attack outside of scoring goals. His hold up play is awful for such a big guy and so is his link up play. As i posted above his overall output is actually worse than Rashford/Martial and he has played all season in a position that usually inflates stats while they have been back and forth between the bench and all kinds of positions

Martial has that ability to carry the ball forward and make defenders lives miserable on a good day, same with Rashford. Just being a poacher these days is not enough, unless your name is Ruud and you are truly exceptional at it, but right now Lukau is not and i struggle to see what else he brings to the table.

Why pay 70 million for him when w have two young CF's who are more talented?

 

[MThomas]

The highlight of the match was when Lukaku looked up to cross, but completely lost sight of the ball and the defender just poked it away while Lukaku had feck all idea what was going on.

His hold up play has largely been a disaster.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Our biggest problem last season was not being able to beat the smaller teams in tight games. This season we're in 2nd in large part because we don't have that issue any more. If his goal record was built up by scoring a bunch of hat tricks in 5-0 wins then I would understand your point, but that isn't what's happening. His record is:

Madrid - scored to make it 1-2
West Ham - scored to make it 1-0 and 2-0
Lukaku - scored to make it 2-0
Stoke - scored to make it 2-1
Basel - scored to make it 2-0
Everton - scored to make it 3-0
Southampton - scored to make it 1-0
CSKA - scored to make it 1-0 and 3-0
Crystal Palace - scored to make it 4-0
Newcastle - scored to make it 4-1
Bourenmouth - scored to make it 1-0
CSKA - scored to make it 1-1
West Brom - scored to make it 1-0
Derby - scored to make it 2-0
Stoke - scored to make it 3-0
Yeovil - scored to make it 4-0
Huddersfield - scored to make it 1-0
Huddersfield - scored to make it 1-0 and 2-0

So that's 9 opening, equalising or winning goals, 6 goals to give us some breathing room at 2-0, 5 goals which were inconsequential at 3+ goals up, and 1 consolation goal against Madrid.

Compare that to Kane this season...

Everton - scored to make it 1-0 and 3-0
Dortmund - scored to make it 2-1 and 3-1
West Ham - scored to make it 1-0 and 2-0
Apoel - scored to make it 1-0, 2-0 and 3-0
Huddersfield - scored to make it 1-0 and 3-0
Liverpool - scored to make it 1-0 and 4-1
Dortmund - scored to make it 1-1
West Brom - scored to make it 1-1
Leicester - scored to make it 1-2
Stoke - scored to make it 3-0 and 4-0
Burnley - scored to make it 1-0, 2-0 and 3-0
Southampton - scored to make it 1-0, 2-0 and 5-1
Wimbledon - scored to make it 1-0 and 2-0
Everton - scored to make it 2-0 and 3-0
Southampton - scored to make it 1-1
Newport - scored to make it 1-1
Liverpool - scored to make it 2-2
Arsenal - scored to make it 1-0
Juventus - scored to make it 1-2
Rochdale - scored to make it 2-1

So that's 16 opening, equalising or winning goals, 7 goals to give them some breathing room at 2-0, 8 goals which were inconsequential at 3+ goals up, and 1 consolation goal against Leicester.

And finally compare that to Ronaldo in 07/08, at the same point in the season...

Sporting - scored to make it 1-0
Birmingham - scored to make it 1-0
Wigan - scored to make it 2-0 and 3-0
Dynamo Kyiv - scored to make it 3-1 and 4-1
Arsenal - scored to make it 2-1
Dynamo Kyiv - scored to make it 4-0
Blackburn - scored to make it 1-0 and 2-0
Sporting - scored to make it 2-1
Fulham - scored to make it 1-0 and 2-0
Everton - scored to make it 1-0 and 2-1
Sunderland - scored to make it 3-0
West Ham - scored to make it 1-0
Newcastle - scored to make it 1-0, 3-0 and 5-0
Reading - scored to make it 2-0
Portsmouth - scored to make it 1-0 and 2-0
Newcastle - scored to make it 2-0 and 3-0

So that's 11 opening, equalising or winning goals, 7 goals to give us some breathing room at 2-0 and 7 goals which were inconsequential at 3+ goals up.

So I think it's fair to say that Lukaku isn't quite up to either Kane or Ronaldo's level in terms of output, in terms of being a pure matchwinner, but everything after that is exceedingly high expectations.

When Ronaldo was the best player in the world he had managed just 1 goal in a big game against Arsenal at this stage. In reality scoring goals in big games is hard for every player. Expecting them to excel in these games is just expecting too much, really.

Once you establish that, the idea that he's a flat track bully falls flat on its face. Because Ronaldo wasn't a flat track bully. Yet Lukaku's distribution of goals is actually very similar to Ronaldo's in terms of winning points and the types of teams he scores again. He's just less prolific. Which I think we can accept given this is being compared against the most prolific season in United's history.

Good post. The "flat track bully" thing has been used against almost every striker I can think of at one point or another (apart from Jamie Vardy!) Was a stick regularly used to beat both Ronaldo and Henry, for example. Guess what? Teams - and, hence, individuals - score less often in difficult games than they do in easy ones. Who'd have thunk it?!

 

[FootyGirl88]

The highlight of the match was when Lukaku looked up to cross, but completely lost sight of the ball and the defender just poked it away while Lukaku had feck all idea what was going on.

His hold up play has largely been a disaster.

This annoyed me to no end, he was too busy telling other people what to do instead of focusing on his own game.

He really needs to learn to protect the ball better, even Henry has said the same thing, for someone his size it should be a piece a cake. If there's one thing Ibra can teach him before he leaves its definitely that.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

What we want is him contributing more in attack outside of scoring goals. His hold up play is awful for such a big guy and so is his link up play. As i posted above his overall output is actually worse than Rashford/Martial and he has played all season in a position that usually inflates stats while they have been back and forth between the bench and all kinds of positions

Martial has that ability to carry the ball forward and make defenders lives miserable on a good day, same with Rashford. Just being a poacher these days is not enough, unless your name is Ruud and you are truly exceptional at it, but right now Lukau is not and i struggle to see what else he brings to the table.

Why pay 70 million for him when w have two young CF's who are more talented?

But how can he contribute more when most of the time we are hoofing it long to him? What is he meant to do from that? His hold up play does need work, but it has certainly improved since earlier in the season and at his age it will get better in time.

Martial and Rashford upfront aren't better though. Both of been given chances upfront and neither has really took the bull by the horns if you will. Rashford had a tendency to go missing up there and Martial's finishing is very hit and miss.

Just baffles me why we signing Lukaku if we aren't going to play to his strengths. Would of made more sense to sign a striker who breaks the line and makes runs if we are insistent on playing with no set game plan.

 

[The Man Himself]

We need to try keeping him on bench in a big game and play with a more fluid front 3. He has played a lot as well, has most minutes for us this season. Now that we have Alexis who can operate as forward and is more consistent in hitting target compared to likes of Rashford, it won't be bad to try out something different.

 

[Brwned]

Good post. The "flat track bully" thing has been used against almost every striker I can think of at one point or another (apart from Jamie Vardy!) Was a stick regularly used to beat both Ronaldo and Henry, for example. Guess what? Teams - and, hence, individuals - score less often in difficult games than they do in easy ones. Who'd have thunk it?!

Yup! You can understand why it's frustrating that the leading player isn't the one making the difference in the big games, particularly when the big game record is a bit patchy for that team. But the reality is decisive goals in big games typically come from all over the pitch...just ask Sergio Ramos! It is minor mistakes and set plays that make the difference more often than moments of individual brilliance in the big games. That's why it's so easy to remember Rooney's goal v City!

It does reinforce how good Kane is and has been though. Exactly half of his goals have been decisive ones, and they include goals against Dortmund, Juve, Arsenal and Liverpool so far. The doubles and hat tricks are what make his overall numbers so impressive, but almost every time he's scored just one goal it's been a decisive one. Obviously the lack of goalscoring threat from the rest of the team and the role he occupies plays a role in that, but he copes with that pressure ridiculously well! I think people take for granted just how good he's been, which is partly why every other striker at a top club in the PL has faced a shitload of criticism this season. He's a machine.

Lukaku's not quite at that level but I don't think there'll ever be a point where a 30 goal season could reasonably be called unimpressive!

 

[Fergus' son]

I really dont like him but hes been our best outfield player for a few games now.

 

[Yagami]

He's not the type of striker you can trust in the knockout stages of a competition, you need someone clinical that you know will get one good chance and score. That chance Sanchez created for him would be bread and butter for RVP, Henry, Rooney, RVN etc

To be fair, Rooney and van Persie missed a few big chances in crucial knockout ties, too. RvP away to Madrid in 12/13 missed a couple of big chances, Rooney away to Bayern. I think Ruud cocked up a great chance away to Madrid in 02/03. It's a tad harsh considering these great strikers have missed chances as well. Every forward does. We just need to supply more service.

Just 4 of the best strikers in EPL history.. Lukaku is not on that level and never will be. He should have done better with that chance though

I don't think anyone expects him to reach that level but considering his price tag, and undroppable status in the team, I don't think it's out of order to compare him to these standards.

 

[roonster09]

He's not the type of striker you can trust in the knockout stages of a competition, you need someone clinical that you know will get one good chance and score. That chance Sanchez created for him would be bread and butter for RVP, Henry, Rooney, RVN etc

RVP isn't. His only memorable contributions was hat trick in Moyes season.

Before that he missed easy chances against Madrid, and also some easy chances against Milan when Arsenal nearly came back from 3-0 or 4-0 down in first leg.

RVP missed some very easy chances and people remember only good moments from him.

 

[Stacks]

Yup! You can understand why it's frustrating that the leading player isn't the one making the difference in the big games, particularly when the big game record is a bit patchy for that team. But the reality is decisive goals in big games typically come from all over the pitch...just ask Sergio Ramos! It is minor mistakes and set plays that make the difference more often than moments of individual brilliance in the big games. That's why it's so easy to remember Rooney's goal v City!

It does reinforce how good Kane is and has been though. Exactly half of his goals have been decisive ones, and they include goals against Dortmund, Juve, Arsenal and Liverpool so far. The doubles and hat tricks are what make his overall numbers so impressive, but almost every time he's scored just one goal it's been a decisive one. Obviously the lack of goalscoring threat from the rest of the team and the role he occupies plays a role in that, but he copes with that pressure ridiculously well! I think people take for granted just how good he's been, which is partly why every other striker at a top club in the PL has faced a shitload of criticism this season. He's a machine.

Lukaku's not quite at that level but I don't think there'll ever be a point where a 30 goal season could reasonably be called unimpressive!

this is fantastic research you did. How do I find this as I am interested to see Kun's?

EDIT: I believe the flat track bully thing goes back quite a way with Rom though, as in something like 5 goals in the last 41 odd against the biggest 6 clubs in the division (6 this season) which is far far lower than the likes of Kane, Kun and Vardy even

 

[roonster09]

this is fantastic research you did. How do I find this as I am interested to see Kun's?

Just go to whoscored.com or transfermarkt for the player profile and check each game.

At least that's how I do. Maybe there is a different site which I'm not aware of which gives stats readily.

 

[Stacks]

Just go to whoscored.com or transfermarkt for the player profile and check each game.

At least that's how I do. Maybe there is a different site which I'm not aware of which gives stats readily.

thanks