I just don’t get the criticism of 25 year old striker in his first season with us considering he was probably our best outfield player in a team with Sanchez and Pogba.
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Good chance. Reckon he’ll rattle in maybe 3/4 goals against Panama and Tunisia for sure.
No it doesn't. That's another round of bro-science. An Outlier like Le Bron James doesn't prove my point but he illustrates it.
Big strong leg muscles make you more agile. The bigger the muscles, the better they can handle the piece of work that is; halting motion in one direction and directing the body in another.
As a common sense caveat here: I'm obviously only speaking about well proportioned individuals, which Lukaku is.
Regarding the Amateur League players (decent Sunday league, not pub football) they cover the same ground in 90 minutes as Professional footballers. It's just slower. It sounds daft as it seems to run afoul of simple math logic, but it's true. A professional footballer will spend far more time walking than a decent Saturday League player. They have a fitness level that allows for hundreds of short intense periods of energy expenditure. The amateur footballer will rarely walk as they're always chasing a game. There's less positional discipline, more back and forth. They close down space slower but the physical space remains the same size. We used to track two players every game, all season. We'd generally see 10km covered, that was the benchmark. This is comfortably in the ballpark of top tier footballers. (Another caveat: No I'm not even suggesting that amateur footballers are anywhere near as fit as professionals)
I tried to pick a range of players that crossed racial lines as some are so sensitive. Lukaku is a big lad. he's in proportion. Big legs, big head, big arms. He's a big unit.
Read a book. You're spouting bro-science and conflating two different things.
The only thing that can be said for losing weight on his upper body is that his endurance would be improved. Not his speed. There's value in saying "If he lost 7kg from his upper body, his legs would carry less weight and he would suffer less fatigue as games went on".
For what it's worth, I'm a qualified UK Athletics Coach (now lapsed and nothing like as impressive as it could sound). I trained young athletes at Lee Valley. I supervised sessions with Dwain Chambers. I'm not talking out of my bottom here. You may know your bleep test results but I know running.
Whats his age got to do with it?
I like Lukaku in the sense that he plays for United so I have to like him by default. But if I heard we sold him this summer, I wouldn't care much. He is just not my cup of tea when it comes to the way he plays.
No, I'm faster as a leaner 30 year old than as a musclier 24 year old. Much faster.
I am not for one second suggesting Lukaku is slow, I'm saying I'd like to see him drop some KG's and possibly get faster.
Most Rugby players who are the fastest are the leaner wingers, the huge lads that contest in scrums don't tend to run very far.
That was quite funny.I imagine this was the run where he passed it to himself.
he used to do it a lot more for Everton because he had more space but we've hardly seen it for United. His close control isn't good and I don't think he can dribble with the ball glued to his feet but those runs when done correctly are very useful.
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I actually thought weight loss would make Lukaku faster but I'll take your word for it. By the way, I went to that place years ago as my nephew had a trial. It was an impressive place!
It's a great spot. Was a wretch to give it up. As alluded to, I wasn't a head coach or anywhere near International Grade quality but I trained plenty of athletes for 1 on 1 sessions, that went on to make a living from running very fast.
I'm only talking from my own personal experience, I've weight lifted / played at a good amateur level of football for the past 10-12 years and I've genuinely sped up my acceleration since purposely trimming down the muscle mass.
It's well documented that footballers try to lean down as they enter their 30's to keep up with the pace of the game, I've read in one of SAF's books that he tries to trim his players down as they enter the final part of their career to help them keep up with the pace of the game.
So do I believe that Lukaku would have a quicker turn of pace based on agility and the amount of weight he is carrying on the turn - yes. Would he tire less in games and be razor sharp after 75 minutes - yes.
My opinion is subjective of course, that's why we're all here. Great CV though and I'm sure you know your stuff with running, but is it directly linked with footballers agility? ie, does Chambers have to practice all of the variables thrown at strikers? I just think if you take Ronaldo as an example, he's incredibly lean and slight top half, and bottom half his legs are huge, 1 of his legs is almost the size of his upper body, he's leaned right down top half to allow him to turn his man, and give himself an extra yard, yet his legs are still built like a shed.
Ronaldinho was a terrible example mate. He's Jacked.
I think you're conflating upper body mass and upper body muscle.
A person that's proportionately developed will not be slower than one that has overdeveloped legs and underdeveloped upper body.
Lukaku is fine just as he is. Getting slimmer up top could potentially give him better endurance, especially across a season, later in his career. But it could also leave him weaker, easier to handle and make him a worse player.
He's among the fastest players at the club. He's managed by phenomenal coaches, nutritionists etc. He clearly works hard and all that brings almost a cast iron guarantee that he's not leaving speed in the weight room.
Less muscle doesn't mean slower mate, at least upper body. If you slim up and train more sprinting and running then by the laws of physics you'll speed up a bit surely. At the very least endurance would be better cos you're carrying less weight around. That being said I think Lukaku is pretty much at the perfect condition right now that suits his style, he is physically an ideal number 9.
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He could destroy Panama. They may take him off if the game is already won though.
I think we are in agreement on some points here. Stronger leg muscles will help your agility. However, upper body muscles won't. Thighs account for about 20% of human body weight. If you add muscle equally across the whole body the corresponding increase in leg strength is not enough to offset the increase in weight. If you train legs specifically and keep the rest lean then yes, agility will increase, but that doesn't look like Lukaku to me. He looks like he could comfortably trim down his upper body.
Remember also these are footballers who still need to perform in minute 90, not NFL players who rest half an hour every time they stand up. His muscles will fatigue but his weight will still be there.
I played in a league where i was tracked by coaches from time to time, as were some others in the team. We always saw a km or two less than a top level pro in our position. As a centre back i would usually see 9.something km. A top pro would be closer to 10.
After the World Cup, what we paid for him will look cheap. Future Utd captain....yes I said it.
“Much faster” yet you’ve literally just told us you’ve lost a yard of pace?!?
Dunno if you watch much rugby but there are plenty of wingers that are just as jacked as Lukaku (if not bigger) but still absolutely rapid.
This guy was one of the quickest wingers in the Northern hemisphere when this photo was taken.
For comparison.
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I do not possess the said credentials in sports science or physical education. However, i used to be obsessed with working out in gyms and playing a lot of football. I was a centreback and one thing i realised when i packed on the muscles was that i became slightly more clumsy. I do not recall losing my speed and acceleration much when running down a straight path. What is undeniable was that my lateral speed and footwork was slower and resulted in many fouls from tackles. Its like i am always that split second slower in my reactions. That is probably apparent in Bale during his Spurs and Madrid's tenure
I can’t say I’ve ever had the displeasure of watching a rugby game, but isn’t it the case that there’s a lot more free space to run into? Most of which is quite straight sprinting? C.f. Football has a lot more arched runs - to stay onside, movement to beat an opponent etc. As well as when you actually have the ball you’re running with a ball at your feet rather than in your arms to simply sprint forward.“Much faster” yet you’ve literally just told us you’ve lost a yard of pace?!?
Dunno if you watch much rugby but there are plenty of wingers that are just as jacked as Lukaku (if not bigger) but still absolutely rapid.
This guy was one of the quickest wingers in the Northern hemisphere when this photo was taken.
For comparison.
Not that I’m actually disagreeing with your general point - I agree that muscular top heavy athletes are still extremely fast, and I think in full speed Lukaku is our fastest player. Heck, he actually *was* our fastest player as that stat vs Chelsea shows.
I imagine it’s the lack of agility or acceleration that leads people into believing top heavy athletes aren’t as fast. Being quite big Lukaku obviously can’t do anything in confined areas that somebody like say, Alexis Sanchez or Aguero (both of whom are/were very fast despite being quite bulky themselves!) can. But that doesn’t make him slow in a full sprint.
Lol, how is this so hard for you to understand.
I literally said that I've sped up despite 'probably losing a yard of pace due to age'.
Meaning whilst i've probably sped up 2-3 yards of pace, and I've also lost one due to age.
Meaning despite losing 1 yard due to age, I've probably sped up 2-3 due to muscle mass loss resulting in a 1-2 yard pace increase overall.
Really, did I just have to sit here an explain that?
For what it's worth, the guy in the first pic looks more vertically built than Lukaku who looks more square shaped and stocky.
A leaner, more (whilst still jacked up) guy is going to run faster than a wider stockier guy. Why are all the sprinters in the Olympics built like muscular beam poles and not like square shaped bodybuilders?
If you want to be faster then lose muscle. Also, random caftard gym bros know more about Lukaku's bio mechanics than Lukaku and his trainers.
Signed with puma, weak cleat game Rom lad
For rugby players being able to rapidly change direction is just as important as top speed. If anything, this is something they do more often and more easily than footballers because they don’t need to worry about making the ball rapidly change direction too.
The rugby player in the picture above would be one of the bigger, stronger players in his position (he weighs 109kg) but is still lightning fast and very nimble. I’m willing to bet Lukaku is at least 10kg lighter than him and, hence, there’s no fecking way his build is impeding him in terms of pace and agility. His proportions are absolutely fine.
Obviously, it’s harder for 6 footers to turn on a sixpence in the same way that shortarses like Aguero and Sanchez do but that’s not because of their upper body physique. Same reason that a lanky streak of piss like Peter Crouch isn’t much more nimble than a shorter, much more heavier built player. Ditto with straight line acceleration. If you have shorter legs, you will get up to top speed more quickly than someone with long legs. Lukaku, obviously can’t do anything about the length of his legs!
What would you say your natural sort of build is. Because to be honest I think both of you guys are right and it’s more about smart training. Lukaku has said his workouts now are more plyometric and that he doesn’t really use weights. He works mostly balance, explosiveness and core strength, where Rashford and Lingard tend to do a lot of weights but if you were to look at all 3 you would think Lukaku is the one who spends most of his time lifting.
I do think too much muscle will become a hinderance, Eddie Hall for example isn’t going to run 100m in 11secs for example but not having it is also an issue. I don’t agree with the not needing upper muscle. One you use your arms a lot to run change direction balance yourself and so on. I think there was a goal Lukaku scored this season as well where he was in front of the defender had shifted the ball to his left and held off the defender with his right and that defender couldn’t budge him.
As for your change we’ll i’d Say the opposite. I was always just naturally pretty well balanced and powerful but in recent years I trained more weight, did a lot more plyometric stuff with footdrills and just explosive power and did put on weight and found that I was a lot faster and better balanced. It’s just what works for you and what you train for. I’m sure if his weight was of any real hinderance to him someone in the OT staff of experts would have suggested he maybe lose a bit.
There is no comparison between the agility of footballers and rugby players. I have played football against current pro rugby players. The local team liked to have the players play football out of season specifically because it helps their fitness and agility, so they came to us. They were quick in acceleration and top speed, and obviously very strong, but the agility and direction change is not even in the same league. There is just too much upper body mass to shift around.
I find that very hard to believe. Being able to quickly change direction is bread and butter for pro rugby players. Side steps are how they beat their man. I'm talking about the backs here, of course. Front row forwards really would be so big that they're sacrificing mobility. So they might struggle the way you describe. Lukaku is not built like a front row forward.
How about a different sport? Does anyone seriously think that NFL running backs have less muscle than Lukaku? Their job is to run incredibly fast and to be able to change direction very quickly. And they’re built like tanks.
This dude is a running back, apparently.
I'd also like to flag that the goal-posts have been moved. A few posts higher up we had people arguing that Lukaku was too muscular to run fast in a straight line. That he'd be quicker if he lost weight. If we've parked that nonsense then great, we've made progress. I'd still maintain he's not too jacked to be able to change direction quickly when required but that's a different discussion.
I find that very hard to believe. Being able to quickly change direction is bread and butter for pro rugby players. Side steps are how they beat their man.
How about a different sport? Does anyone seriously think that NFL running backs have less muscle than Lukaku? Their job is to run incredibly fast and to be able to change direction very quickly. And they’re built like tanks.
This dude is a running back, apparently.
I'd also like to flag that the goal-posts have been moved. A few posts higher up we had people arguing that Lukaku was too muscular to run fast in a straight line. That he'd be quicker if he lost weight. If we've parked that nonsense then great, we've made progress. I'd still maintain he's not too jacked to be able to change direction quickly when required but that's a different discussion.
Side steps are how they beat other rugby players, and there is a lot of difference in a side step and the 180 turns and complete direction changes a footballer will do frequently during a game. Rugby players carry a huge amount of upper body mass that is required for that sport but totally unnecessary for football and a hindrance for agility.
Plus, as i said earlier in the thread no matter how much muscle he has, the power in a players legs in minute 1 is not the same as it is in minute 90, but the weight those legs have to shift is.
And now we’re on to endurance. And there’s no doubt that carrying too much muscles impacts on endurance. That NFL running back bloke wouldn’t have a hope of lasting the pace in a game of rugby or soccer. His build is perfect for brief, explosive effort but oxygenating all that muscle over 80-90 minutes constant effort would be a nightmare.
And yes, rugby/NFL players need to be bigger/stronger than footballers, for obvious reasons. So they will have to trade off the pros of being big vs the cons of needing to lug all that muscle round the pitch. Lukaku doesn’t need to be as big as them so it would be counterproductive if he was.
The thing is, he’s nowhere near as big as them. He’s got the perfect physique for his position. A big, strong, quick centre forward. That’s why he’s such a handful for defenders. Losing a few kg might make him more nimble and might give him better endurance. It won’t make him quicker. He’s clearly not so big it’s slowing him down.
Others might have been saying losing weight would make him quicker but i haven't. As long as you don't lose freedom of movement the more muscle the better, look at the size of sprinters. Losing a few kg would make him more agile though.
Sure. I think we’re actually in full agreement. There’s a redcafe first!
There is the quick runner, and there is the powerful runner.
Lukaku is sort of a mixture of both - so fast and so powerful.
Agile runner he maybe not so much. But at a good slower pace, he's quick enough at turning when dribbling.
Lukaku is sort of a mixture of both - so fast and so powerful.
Agile runner he maybe not so much. But at a good slower pace, he's quick enough at turning when dribbling.
Not 100% true. Gatlin and Bolt are huge and the fastest men in the world.
Upper body muscle does continbute to speed. Obviously not Mr. Olympia but you get the drift.
I've always been a very fast and this year was the first time I've properly weight trained. I've put on a stone without fat in 7 months and I've lost no pace. Everyone's different.
Should be stat padding game for him today , i would be surprised if he didn't score at least 2 goals. Some of our fans will see how Lethal he can be with proper service around him.
Want him to do well but equally want Belgium to fail miserably. Hopefully he scores a hattrick which is balanced out by De Bruyne and Hazard scoring a couple of own goals each.
He's scored 40 goals in 60 games and had a fantastic season.
Unless you've been living under rock most will be well aware of how lethal he is.
Belgium vs Panama (World Cup Group G)
And 1 goal in 1 game in the World Cup.
So far.
So far.
Well done!
Go on lad.
Make that 2! Well done Rom
Give him better supply & he’ll score plenty.
Great finish.
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