[spontaneus1]

But.. but.. he's not getting the service?

Its a misleading stat, he gets hopeless balls hoofed at him and has no support to counter with. Means he loses possession when trying to hold off 2/3 defenders constantly.

 

[goin4glory]

The way Jose plays, Martial/Sanchez won't be the answer either. He likes himself a target man.

A target man who can't hold the ball or link up with others is useless. He looks like he's playing in boots 8 sizes too big with his clumsy touches/passing.

 

[BocaJuniors]

Plank from Ed, Edd n Eddy would be better than him.

 

[Bwuk]

The way Jose plays, Martial/Sanchez won't be the answer either. He likes himself a target man.

Both Sanchez and Martial hold the ball far better. Lukakus touch is too inconsistent and his passing is beyond unreliable.

 

[Canagel]

Will he ever score in a big game?

 

[Raoul]

Will he ever score in a big game?

He nearly had one tonight. He will have more chances next game.

 

[Infra-red]

Obviously Mourinho won't do it, but it's what we should do. If he wanted that, he should've bought a target man that can actually hold the ball up, compete physically with defenders and dominate them in the air. He bought Lukaku because he is big. But ignore his size. Would make no difference to us in terms of successful hoofing if we played Rashford, Martial or Sanchez there compared to Lukaku, that's how useless he is in the air with long balls. He's purely a poacher, and can be a good player for that, but that's not suited to our current side at all and not suited to the majority of big teams.

He needs close support, certainly, ideally a strike partner. 3-5-2 or 3-4-2-1 might be worth considering for Mourinho, as it would allow him to keep Pogba away from the area of responsibility in midfield and ensure someone stays close to Lukaku. It's certainly a headache and once again we're struggling to fit square pegs in to round holes thanks to an ill-conceived transfer strategy.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Both Sanchez and Martial hold the ball far better. Lukakus touch is too inconsistent and his passing is beyond unreliable.

Martial and Sanchez are very inconsistent too. Yes, they probably hold it better, but won't be able to contest for aerial balls like Rom does.

 

[bosnian_red]

Serious question for anyone who thinks he is the right guy to use up top:

Do you think he will score in any of the remaining big games this season?

Big games include any game against the top 6 (0 goals in them so far, still to play against Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea at OT, City away), or champions league knockout games, or the semi's/finals for the FA Cup (we are home against Brighton in the quarters... hardly a tough game, or at least it shouldn't be).

 

[Isotope]

Its a misleading stat, he gets hopeless balls hoofed at him and has no support to counter with. Means he loses possession when trying to hold off 2/3 defenders constantly.

He really shouldn't be in position where 2/3 defenders are all on him.

The field is so big, there should be places where he can move, and not being isolated against 2/3 CB?

 

[finneh]

People keep saying he's young but in truth he's played over 200 games in the Premier League and nearly 350 senior appearances for club and country as a player... Are we really banking on him suddenly and substantially improving?

My view is Lukaku now is similar to Rooney the season Fergie left. He'll score some important goals and play an important part, but as a team on the whole we'll always somewhat struggle with him starting every game.

If we wanted a technically limited finisher who can score at a good rate then we could have saved £65m and bought Hernandez (who incidentally scored at a much more prolific rate).

For anyone comparing his stats with much better players, try comparing Hernandez's stats with them.

 

[Zoo]

Scholes and Rio criticising him for not holding the bad is weird the guy is feeding on scraps, as usual from us in a big game. Criticise him for the chance he blew but the rest of his game was fine and he worked his socks off.

 

[Bwuk]

Martial and Sanchez are very inconsistent too. Yes, they probably hold it better, but won't be able to contest for aerial balls like Rom does.

Lukaku is dross in the air for a man of his size. How often does the ball come back to us from the goal kick.

 

[Jonno]

Serious question for anyone who thinks he is the right guy to use up top:

Do you think he will score in any of the remaining big games this season?

Big games include any game against the top 6 (0 goals in them so far, still to play against Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea at OT, City away), or champions league knockout games, or the semi's/finals for the FA Cup (we are home against Brighton in the quarters... hardly a tough game, or at least it shouldn't be).

He'll score against Chelsea.

 

[bosnian_red]

Martial and Sanchez are very inconsistent too. Yes, they probably hold it better, but won't be able to contest for aerial balls like Rom does.

Contest, and lose them every time or give them away? Not sure what difference it'd make. City play Aguero up top and have for years. Liverpool play Firmino up top. We used to use Tevez and Rooney up top. So many others have smaller/weaker players up top then what Sanchez and Martial are. Martial probably even has a pretty average frame as a striker, not like he's really small. Contesting for aerial balls has little to do with height. It's in timing of the jump, reading the play, knowing how to use your body... Lukaku is awful at those 3, certainly worse then Martial or Sanchez are at it despite being smaller then him.

 

[MikeKing]

I have to be the only one to think Lukaku played well tonight, looking at this thread. Tactics did not help him in any way but at least I think he did his best impression of a "target-man" yet.

 

[Utdstar01]

Scholes and Rio criticising him for not holding the bad is weird the guy is feeding on scraps, as usual from us in a big game. Criticise him for the chance he blew but the rest of his game was fine and he worked his socks off.

I agree with this. His Build up play let him down on a few occasions, probably his worst game for a while in regards to that but you can't fault him for effort. We're hoofing the ball upto him, his main being Sanchez, then Mata who is slow as feck getting up the pitch. No surprises he had much more space once Martial and Rashford were on.

 

[Brwned]

I didn't get carried away with either. I simply preferred Morata to Lukaku.

You did. You were chucking around 40 goal predictions like they were nothing earlier in the season.

Wouldn't be surprised if Morata scores 35-40 goals this year.

I'd actually be surprised if Lukaku doesn't get 35 goals and wouldn't at all be shocked if he reaches 40. Also expect Rashford to get 20.

That's unrealistic expectations and that's the foundation of the backlash against Lukaku (and Morata). They have never been that good. People just lost sight of how good you need to be to get 40 goals.

 

[bosnian_red]

He'll score against Chelsea.

Let's hope... Considering how we play in big games (and him in particular), I wouldn't hold my breath

 

[Raoul]

You did. You were chucking around 40 goal predictions like they were nothing earlier in the season.





That's unrealistic expectations and that's the foundation of the backlash against Lukaku (and Morata). They have never been that good. People just lost sight of how good you need to be to get 40 goals.

I wouldn't be shocked if he reached 40 isn't a hard prediction he would get 40. 30s was always realistic and still is.

 

[Infra-red]

Contest, and lose them every time or give them away? Not sure what difference it'd make. City play Aguero up top and have for years. Liverpool play Firmino up top. We used to use Tevez and Rooney up top. So many others have smaller/weaker players up top then what Sanchez and Martial are. Martial probably even has a pretty average frame as a striker, not like he's really small. Contesting for aerial balls has little to do with height. It's in timing of the jump, reading the play, knowing how to use your body... Lukaku is awful at those 3, certainly worse then Martial or Sanchez are at it despite being smaller then him.

City, Liverpool and our 06-09 side all keep the ball far better than we do and play higher up the pitch. In big games we'll have little possession and will spend large spells sitting deep and hitting it long when we can. You can't do that with Aguero/Firmino/Rooney/Tevez. You can't really do it to the extent you'd like to with Lukaku either, as we have seen, but despite his failings he is stronger in the air than the aforementioned players or Martial/Rashford/Alexis.

 

[Brwned]

I wouldn't be shocked if he reached 40 isn't a hard prediction he would get 40. 30s was always realistic and still is.

You'd be surprised if he got less than 35, is what you said. More goals than our all time top goalscorer scored in any season, and the 4th highest goalscoring season in United's history. In his first season.

And you're still convinced you didn't have unrealistic expectations. Who cares about facts and evidence eh? When you're right, you're right.

 

[Canagel]

He nearly had one tonight. He will have more chances next game.

I really hope so. Chelsea is a big game but I'm backing him to do well. Oh and pls remove this ugly tag on my name. Safe.

 

[Raoul]

You'd be surprised if he got less than 35, is what you said. More goals than our all time top goalscorer scored in any season, and the 4th highest goalscoring season in United's history. In his first season.

And you're still convinced you didn't have unrealistic expectations.

So what if he doesn't get 35 and maybe winds up with 30 ? Would you feel good about winning an argument on the internet ?

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Contest, and lose them every time or give them away? Not sure what difference it'd make. City play Aguero up top and have for years. Liverpool play Firmino up top. We used to use Tevez and Rooney up top. So many others have smaller/weaker players up top then what Sanchez and Martial are. Martial probably even has a pretty average frame as a striker, not like he's really small. Contesting for aerial balls has little to do with height. It's in timing of the jump, reading the play, knowing how to use your body... Lukaku is awful at those 3, certainly worse then Martial or Sanchez are at it despite being smaller then him.

I'm not talking about what other teams have. Other managers have different tactics. It very much long ball by Jose and it's well documented that he likes a target man striker. I very much doubt Martial and Sanchez be doing any better if they were constantly getting long balls up to them.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

I have to be the only one to think Lukaku played well tonight, looking at this thread. Tactics did not help him in any way but at least I think he did his best impression of a "target-man" yet.

Yeah, I thought he was alright too. I think his touch is a little too heavy in close and that he needs to win more aerial duels especially with his back to goal so we can at least retain possession and get a stranglehold of the game. Those are the two parts to his game I'm most frustrated with on a consistent basis.

 

[Brwned]

So what if he doesn't get 35 and maybe winds up with 30 ? Would you feel good about winning an argument on the internet ?

I didn't argue how many goals Lukaku would score so I have no vested interest in the argument. I do find it amusing when someone blindly ignores the facts and pretends they didn't say something just to protect their credibility on an internet forum though.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I didn't say 40.

I'd actually be surprised if Lukaku doesn't get 35 goals and wouldn't at all be shocked if he reaches 40. Also expect Rashford to get 20.

You certainly seemed to think 40 was in his grasps when we signed him.

And again this is the point. Those numbers you predicted would put him somewhere between RVNs best and second best goal scoring seasons for United. Because of those sky high expectations on Lukaku in his first season (as well as the perception that Lukaku was an upgrade on Zlatan's woefully underappreciated sesson last year) he's getting nowhere near enough credit for what he's doing well.

 

[bosnian_red]

I'm not talking about what other teams have. Other managers have different tactics. It very much long ball by Jose and it's well documented that he likes a target man striker. I very much doubt Martial and Sanchez be doing any better if they were constantly getting long balls up to them.

I don't think they'd do worse though, that's the thing, seeing as Lukaku does virtually nothing from the long balls because he isn't that type of player. It doesn't matter that he's big. He sucks in the air. We would do better with them if we just stuck Fellaini up top since he is actually good in the air and can use his body properly to bring the ball down on his chest. Lukaku can't do any of that and it's essentially like playing with a smaller guy up top because he can't do it.

 

[Raoul]

You certainly seemed to think 40 was in his grasps when we signed him.

And again this is the point those numbers you predicted would put him somewhere between RVNs best and second best goal scoring seasons for United. Because of those sky high expectations on Lukaku in his first season (as well as the perception that Lukaku was an upgrade on Zlatan's woefully underappreciated sesson) he's getting nowhere near enough credit for what he's doing well.

Its a possibility but how these players are utilized also has a massive impact on their productivity. Lukaku has seemingly underachieved this year and yet is currently sitting on a paltry 21 goals. If he was in a system that utilized his physicality and pace that number could be significantly more at this point.

 

[Raoul]

I didn't argue how many goals Lukaku would score so I have no vested interest in the argument. I do find it amusing when someone blindly ignores the facts and pretends they didn't say something just to protect their credibility on an internet forum though.

You obviously do have a vested interest since you are here to argue about it. We still have as many as 20 fixtures remaining so lets wait and see how things end up before gleefully scampering into this thread to triumphantly point out how not wrong you were.

 

[MikeKing]

Yeah, I thought he was alright too. I think his touch is a little too heavy in close and that he needs to win more aerial duels especially with his back to goal so we can at least retain possession and get a stranglehold of the game. Those are the two parts to his game I'm most frustrated with on a consistent basis.

It is, but as we know its also not his best assets. He could have been better at that stuff today, absolutely, as it was his main job. But still think he did good

 

[Jim Beam]

Because of his technique and considering what types of strikers we had he will always split opinions and have fans on his back.

But there is no way I will start pointing at him and calling him out until the players behind him start producing and performing in the same big games in which he gets most of the blame. He should have done better with a chance and he could hold the ball better at times, but it's almost nitpicking considering that other world-class players sometimes couldn't play a simple 5-yard pass to one another.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

It is, but as we know its also not his best assets. He could have been better at that stuff today, absolutely, as it was his main job. But still think he did good

If he improves just one aspect of those two 20% we become such a better side. Give him half of Drogba's ability to win the ball with back to goal or Berba's touch and he'd be absolutely world class already.

 

[Irish Jet]

He was terrible. For every good thing there was two bad, normally straight after. Broke down so many counters, wasted his chance, handled on another good pass. Awful.

 

[Brwned]

You obviously do have a vested interest since you are here to argue about it. We still have as many as 20 fixtures remaining so lets wait and see how things end up before gleefully scampering into this thread to triumphantly point out how not wrong you were.

If he was to score 40 goals this season, given the stage we're at, he would have exceeded expectations. We can say without any doubt that this would be the consensus if you ask our fans now. So we don't really need to wait any longer to establish that people who thought 40 was a realistic expectation had gotten carried away. That shouldn't really be a big deal. Why is it so difficult to admit you got carried away, on such a non-issue?

The reality is that only 2 players in history have scored 35 goals for us in a season. Lukaku is not in their class yet and, as you've said yourself today, he probably won't be. If he scores over 30 goals this season - something Hughes, Cantona, Solskjaer, Cole, Yorke, Sheringham, Berbatov, van Persie and Ibrahimovic never managed - we should be very satisfied. If our fans aren't satisfied with that then expectations were set too high in the beginning.

That's the whole point I guess. I was just reaffirming NinjaFletch's position - I really don't care.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Its a possibility but how these players are utilized also has a massive impact on their productivity. Lukaku has seemingly underachieved this year and yet is currently sitting on a paltry 21 goals. If he was in a system that utilized his physicality and pace that number could be significantly more at this point.

What do you honestly think is more likely?

That Lukaku is a striker who should be scoring close to the club's best ever goal scoring season in his first season at the club is being denied that opportunity by a manager that can't get the best out of him.

Or Lukaku is a very good, not world class player, whos performing about as decently as his record before we signed him suggested he might?

I think it's latter and I think thats true for a lot of our attackers that people are blaming Mourinho for not getting more out of. I accept that plenty don't agree, but that's football.

 

[Raoul]

What do you honestly think is more likely?

That Lukaku is a striker who should be scoring close to the club's best ever goal scoring season in his first season at the club is being denied that opportunity by a manager that can't get the best out of him.

Or Lukaku is a very good, not world class player, whos performing about as decently as his record before we signed him suggested he might?

I think it's latter and I think thats true for a lot of our attackers that people are blaming Mourinho for not getting more out of. I accept that plenty don't agree, but that's football.

He's definitely not playing at the level that he could because we as a team aren't playing up to our potential. If we were firing on all cylinders his goal output would obviously be significantly more. I expected more of him this year, but then I also expected more of the likes of Pogba, Rashford, and Mourinho. We have underachieved as a club and that has affected the productivity of our players and vice versa.

 

[ti vu]

Lukaku is dross in the air for a man of his size. How often does the ball come back to us from the goal kick.

So I won't disagree here, but the thing is winning even very few is better than not winning at all going with Martial and Alexis who wouldn't challenge for aerially from goal kick, or long ball from the back.

Then we realize the alternative is to build up short from the back. Now we're back to square one with our better defensive CBs ain't as good at playing out from the back. Then Pogba ain't at top form so it's again not an option. The CBs who are better at passing is not all that solid defensively. Using them without cover for the downgrade in defensive solidity, again is square one. Even Valencia looked like crap today. Removing Smalling and Matic, McTominay would be suicidal. And we're not sure the attacker would be much better to edge out the risk of shaky defense.

 

[bosnian_red]

If he was to score 40 goals this season, given the stage we're at, he would have exceeded expectations. We can say without any doubt that this would be the consensus if you ask our fans now. So we don't really need to wait any longer to establish that people who thought 40 was a realistic expectation had gotten carried away. That shouldn't really be a big deal. Why is it so difficult to admit you got carried away, on such a non-issue?

The reality is that only 2 players in history have scored 35 goals for us in a season. Lukaku is not in their class yet and, as you've said yourself today, he probably won't be. If he scores over 30 goals this season - something Hughes, Cantona, Solskjaer, Cole, Yorke, Sheringham, Berbatov, van Persie and Ibrahimovic never managed - we should be very satisfied. If our fans aren't satisfied with that then expectations were set too high in the beginning.

That's the whole point I guess. I was just reaffirming NinjaFletch's position - I really don't care.

It's one thing being happy with his goal output for the season, and another being disappointed in him as a player and his performances on the pitch, especially in big games. Is it a good season if he scores 35 goals in a season, but none against the top 6 teams, none in the champions league knockout phase, none in the semi's or final of the FA Cup? It really isn't. He can score 40 goals against the bottom half sides but if he does that badly against anyone decent, then no amount of goals against shit teams will change that.