[Pogue Mahone]

I stayed clear of this thread yesterday as I knew it'd turn into a shit fest very quickly and there's nothing I could have added that wouldn't have been repeated 10 times by 10 different posters.

People need to calm down a little. He literally fed of scraps yesterday. Compare that to the Arsenal game where he was involved a lot more and managed to play two important passes in two of our goals. He does himself no justice with that shite clearance but mistakes happen. It was interesting hearing Delph speak in his post match interview about his mistake and how he was confident that he'd be bailed by his team mates. No one really stood up after we went 2-1 down and fought to win. Felt bad for him as he's obviously down on confidence and then ended up messing up that clearance which makes matters worse - but nows not the time to get on his back. I get the criticism but I don't understand 20 pages of it. Get behind the fecking player and team.

Ditto against Watford.

He was really shit yesterday, so deserves some criticism. Being so obviously culpable for the two goals conceded seemed to break him, mentally. He completely lost his composure and started snatching at everything. This is a big step up for him and we have to hope he learned a lesson and will be a better player as a result. I just hope the match-going fans are better at getting behind a player who needs our support than you’d think from the general vibe on here. I’m sure they are. In a way it’s a pity our next game isn’t on the road. He needs a good dose of the sort of unqualified support with seem to only get from away fans.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He's a bit of a worry at the moment. His all round play needed to improve anyway for a club of United's stature but in the big, tight games he can look a right mess. I mean Martial and Rashford look so much better than him on the ball it's actually ridiculous.

Gosh I wish he had put that chance away. Was a lovely move with Ibrs and Martial involved.

 

[Hammondo]

Players won't perform at their top ability if they never are rested. If Mourinho started rotate Lukaku he would perform better when he gets to play.

No idea why he would be tired when he barely moves compared to those other attackers.

 

[midnightmare]

Wow. Was not expecting the absolute lancing he's received here.

Thought he worked hard, everything that came off for him seemed to come with two other scenario's that didn't. Usually following the good thing that came off. He should have scored that chance however.

Have laid off from “lancing” him thus far but surely it's deserved by now? If it were Rooney doing this, he'd have been absolutely roasted - and for good reason. Lukaku is now becoming almost a liability. For all those pointing to a couple of decent balls in the past few games (combined), surely we should expect a lot more from a 75+ Mn player? Also, not sure what you are alluding to as "coming off" for him...

He is short on confidence and also looks tired to me. He plays almost every game for us. We should probably rest him a couple of time to keep him fit for the busy schedule we are going to have this month. Keep him and Matic benched for the Bristol city game at least

Short of confidence and tired? Less than halfway into the season and before the festive period? It's amazing that someone can use that as an excuse now. Players at the top end thrive on playing every game they're fit for and don't like being "rested". Managers like Fergie also had players who played every game they were fit for. You "manage" time when players reach a certain stage in the career where it's no longer possible to play every game. Forget people like Messi and Ronaldo; even strikers like RvN, Henry, Drogba, Shearer, Rooney et al played every game and hated being benched. Even smoking Berba didn't ask to be rested!

He's in need of dropping - but think about it. Can he get confidence from being dropped? How he reacts now will define his entire career. Flop at United and he'll always be bouncing around second-tier clubs or be backup at elite ones. Bounce back with a vengeance and he may get another chance... For my money, much though I hope he'll really step it up a notch, history and my eyes tell me we've got ourselves a lemon...

 

[whatwha]

Well if your happiness depends on how he plays, then you're going to have issues. No point in dwelling on what he can't do, but it's the way of the world now, spending hours on the net complaining about things people can't change.

May as well shut down every football forum then.

 

[Fortitude]

I stayed clear of this thread yesterday as I knew it'd turn into a shit fest very quickly and there's nothing I could have added that wouldn't have been repeated 10 times by 10 different posters.

People need to calm down a little. He literally fed of scraps yesterday. Compare that to the Arsenal game where he was involved a lot more and managed to play two important passes in two of our goals. He does himself no justice with that shite clearance but mistakes happen. It was interesting hearing Delph speak in his post match interview about his mistake and how he was confident that he'd be bailed by his team mates. No one really stood up after we went 2-1 down and fought to win. Felt bad for him as he's obviously down on confidence and then ended up messing up that clearance which makes matters worse - but nows not the time to get on his back. I get the criticism but I don't understand 20 pages of it. Get behind the fecking player and team.

I don't think many aren't willing him on or wanting him to fail? This was the biggest most crucial game of the season so far so every player is going to be under the microscope. At the same time, it's only 1 game and then we're on to the next one, but that hasn't happened yet and his last performance is fresh in the memory.

That thing about feeding off scraps isn't really true either as he had ample opportunity to control balls played into him and then continue the play either running with it or playing others in for an attack to build. Plays broke down a lot of the time because he flubbed his lines. Can't put that on anyone else's shoulders.

 

[luke511]

The guy is terribly inconsistent and that's proving to be a thing that will not change in the future. In my opinion there hasn't been one performance this season where I've been blown away, as horrible as I feel saying it I'd be looking for a replacement in the summer, we could quite easily coup £50 million back for him. He's just not good enough at the technical side of the game to be our striker.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I don't think many aren't willing him on or wanting him to fail? This was the biggest most crucial game of the season so far so every player is going to be under the microscope. At the same time, it's only 1 game and then we're on to the next one, but that hasn't happened yet and his last performance is fresh in the memory.

That thing about feeding off scraps isn't really true either as he had ample opportunity to control balls played into him and then continue the play either running with it or playing others in for an attack to build. Plays broke down a lot of the time because he flubbed his lines. Can't put that on anyone else's shoulders.

How many comments of "hes shit", "never wanted him here", "Morata is better" have we seen?

 

[whatwha]

He was never going to be clinical, he's never been the one chance one goal kind of striker.

When our tactics are to lump it upto him when he is isolated, we really are not playing to his strengths one bit.

I would have hoped that jose would have coached him more, work on his touch etc. Rashfords decision making and finishing if off on times too, so is martial, and for all his goals how many chances did Ibra miss last season?

He's getting the brunt of it, but Lukaku can be deadly, if we play the right way.

We need to cut him some slack and get behind him, he's our main striker and can get shedloads of goals if we play the right way

Shedloads of goals, how? You just said at the start of your post that he's never going to be clinical.

 

[Cassidy]

How many comments of "hes shit", "never wanted him here", "Morata is better" have we seen?

Those may be peoples real opinions, that doesn't mean they want him to fail.

 

[RedOldBoy]

For those who don't understand why we're so underwhelmed, hopefully these stats will help.

Mohamed Salah - 13 goals. 1193 total mins 92mpg
Harry Kane - 12 goals. 1306 total mins 109mpg
Álvaro Morata - 9 goals. 1172 total mins 130mpg
Sergio Agüero - 9 goals. 866 total mins 96mpg
Raheem Sterling - 9 goals. 1028 total mins 114mpg
Romelu Lukaku - 8 goals. 1440 total mins 180mpg
Gabriel Jesus - 8 goals. 882 total mins 110mpg
Wayne Rooney - 8 goals. 1075 total mins 134mpg
Alexandre Lacazette - 8 goals. 1110 total mins 139mpg
Jamie Vardy - 7 goals. 1413 total mins 202mpg
Leroy Sane 6 goals. 1032 total mins 172mpg
Anthony Martial - 6 goals. 667 total mins 111mpg

He's played by far the most minutes out of all them and is only second to Vardy in the worst minutes per goal stat. A one in two number 9 was good in the 90s and 2000s but nowadays its not enough as evidenced from the other strikers stats.

Its even less impressive when he has less technical ability than all the strikers here apart from Vardy again who plays for Leicester. Stats and our eyes tell us everything we need to know about Lukaku

That's just one spin on this.
Now get some statistics on how [edited] much of the ball they had in the minutes played and also how many chances per goals etc and we will more evidence to judge each striker.

 

[Cassidy]

Shedloads of goals, how? You just said at the start of your post that he's never going to be clinical.

Create loads of chances for him

 

[Minimalist]

I feel for him, I really do.

He's getting battered and while his performances haven't been good - the boys behind him are not good at all.

 

[golden_blunder]

At the end of the day he will undoubtedly get at least another season, and no doubt he will score a lot of goals. But, Lukaku is the type of forward you need to build your team around and I’m not convinced that’s the right thing to do. He’s gone missing in big matches throughout his club career and goes on goal droughts each season historically.
I get that we don’t do him any favors but he also needs to use his considerable frame to effect games better. Also I feel that Pogba papers over Lukaku’s shortcomings so they are highlighted and underlined when he’s not playing. That is not the mark of a top tier forward. I think ultimately he will be replaced but it will be on the long finger, there are more pressing concerns

 

[spiriticon]

A lot of people keep saying we are not playing to his strengths.

What the hell are 'his strengths'? I'm still trying to work that out.

 

[RexHamilton]

We don't help him by the way we're playing at the moment. He's often isolated and getting the ball with his back to goal somewhere between the centre circle and the opposition box. This isn't the way to get the best out of him.

That being said, he's not clinical enough in front of goal right now. He may not be getting many chances, but he needs to finish the ones he does. Looking at Rashford's finish yesterday, I'm not so sure Lukaku would have put that away. If we're not going to play a game that creates a lot of chances in big games, then we need a striker who can live on scraps and punish when he gets his chances.

 

[SteveTheRed]

Look, he had a terrible game yesterday...it was like playing with 10 men at times. A huge part of that is how we are set up to play those games though. I would imagine in an ideal scenario Mourinho would have preferred to play a fully fit Zlatan in these games.

I was pretty mad at him yesterday but the reality is , we didn't buy him for his big game contribution. We bought him because we couldn't score against Stoke, West Brom, Southampton etc. Games were we have a lot of possession and chances.

 

[RedStrudel76]

Everton was his spiritual home.. he suited them down to the ground.

I'd rather have Alan Smith back leading the line. He could hold the ball up, his backing in to players was legendary and still unmatched to this day, great headers and his work-rate was excellent.

You can forgive a striker for missing chances, but not laziness, you need to put a shift in when you ain't scoring. Supporters know the score and can forgive a tryer.

Someone mentioned we ain't winning big trophies with the donkey upfront, and I tend to agree. It is that simple. You need to be ruthless and sell him on.

 

[Minimalist]

A lot of people keep saying we are not playing to his strengths.

What the hell are 'his strengths'? I'm still trying to work that out.

He's a very good finisher and he's strong as hell.

It's not just the players behind him that aren't helping him out but also the system we play. Either Mourinho has bought the wrong type of striker (Lukaku is doing what he asks him to do) or Lukaku needs to bust his balls to work back more (but why the hell do we even want him to do that?).

If he was missing tons of chances I could understand it but we took bloody 40+ minutes yesterday to get going. I'm not looking at the strikers in that scenario - I'm really not having it. He was poor with what he did but there's a hell of a lot going on beyond his performance.

 

[MThomas]

I stayed clear of this thread yesterday as I knew it'd turn into a shit fest very quickly and there's nothing I could have added that wouldn't have been repeated 10 times by 10 different posters.

People need to calm down a little. He literally fed of scraps yesterday. Compare that to the Arsenal game where he was involved a lot more and managed to play two important passes in two of our goals. He does himself no justice with that shite clearance but mistakes happen. It was interesting hearing Delph speak in his post match interview about his mistake and how he was confident that he'd be bailed by his team mates. No one really stood up after we went 2-1 down and fought to win. Felt bad for him as he's obviously down on confidence and then ended up messing up that clearance which makes matters worse - but nows not the time to get on his back. I get the criticism but I don't understand 20 pages of it. Get behind the fecking player and team.

I'm confused at how much praise Lukaku gets for those two passes. I think he does well for our second goal, the through ball to Martial. Our third goal, it's a simple pass.. It's as if its the creme de la creme of passing..You'd expect the majority of our attacking players to be able to play those two passes.

It's an internet forum, this whole "get behind the fecking player and team" in that reference is a somewhat amusing term. If he's suddenly booed at Old Trafford, then yes, get behind the player and team, but in regards to a debate on the internet ? For fecks sake...

Lukaku at the moment isn't offering much, but it's also very much down to the way we are playing in these matches. If he's equally poor / shit against Bournemouth, then Mourinho will have to seriously consider benching him while sticking Rashford / Martial up front.

 

[RedOldBoy]

Again – This is such a cop out. Lack of service isn’t an excuse for his dreadful play or his 30 minute spells without being seen – He cost 75 million pounds. He’s 6ft 4” and built like a tank – he should be able to occasionally win a long ball or two. He never does – His physical presence is atrocious.

Compare this to Zlatan last season – He didn’t always play well but how often did he really go missing? How often did he look out of his depth?

He was always a reliable out ball and would compete and throw himself around if nothing else. He bullied Vertonghen and Alderweireld off the park when we beat Spurs around this time last year. We’re seeing nothing of that quality from Lukaku and that is the standard that has been set, the standard we need. Zlatan is a year older coming off a wrecked knee, we shouldn’t be looking to him again.

Lukaku’s goals have come in spurts against pretty terrible opposition. A hat-trick on Wednesday still wouldn’t make up for his 3 awful performances against Liverpool, Chelsea and City. They’re papering over cracks. It's no joke to expect more from the player we signed to make the difference in these games. We all hope he does well but why should he be immune from criticism?

To be fair, I think Zlatan is in a different class all together. Last year he was absolutely amazing for his age.

The thing is in the summer at one stage it look like Griezmann was the 1st choice until he decided to stay at Atletico and then it looked like Morata.
Don't tell me we didn't know that Lukaku doesn't have a great first touch and neither is his distribution that great.
But I am not going blame him for a disappointing team performance with the exception of maybe Lingard yesterday.

 

[RedOldBoy]

He's a good striker. But he needs to be in the box and he needs service. And as Jose is playing the counter attacking game both in away games and against the better sides, I don't really see how he is supposed to fit in with the link up play he offers.

I agree.

 

[Minimalist]

Also love how under Van Gaal people criticised the manager for expecting strikers to be super clinical ("pass first unless there's a clear chance" etc) and how unrealistic it was to expect every chance (limited as they were) to go in.

That's pretty much what people are expecting with Lukaku at the moment. When he's missing open nets - I'll worry. When the players around him aren't looking equally lost and it's all breaking down due to him - I'll worry.

 

[VP89]

Also love how under Van Gaal people criticised the manager for expecting strikers to be super clinical ("pass first unless there's a clear chance" etc) and how unrealistic it was to expect every chance (limited as they were) to go in.

That's pretty much what people are expecting with Lukaku at the moment. When he's missing open nets - I'll worry. When the players around him aren't looking equally lost and it's all breaking down due to him - I'll worry.

It's his general play and perceive lack of effort which concerns me, not his conversion ratio.

Would be interested to know his comparative distance covered stats.

 

[RedOldBoy]

Martial laid it on a plate for him yesterday and he fluffed his lines. That was the key moment in the game.

If Martial was gifted such opportunity, he would find the net with aplomb & this isn’t the first time Lukaku hits it straight at the goalie.

Earlier in the season, Mkhitaryan was denied an assist at Stoke because Lukaku couldn’t finish a very easy chance, he scored from the rebound.

At Southampton, It was another rebound having found himself one v one with their goalie. How can I forget the chance he missed at Anfield?

Lukaku isn’t clinical, he just shoots and hopes. He doesn’t have the confidence to go for placement and avoid the goalie totally with his shots - and it’s so frustrating.

Yes he should have buried the chance he got, but then don't forget the times Marcus and Anthony blaze there shots over when chances present themselves.

 

[whatwha]

Create loads of chances for him

fecking hell, so your idea of a striker who will cost £90m playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world is someone who isn't clinical and can score some goals when given loads of chances. We might as well have signed some average donkey from the Championship for £10m if that's all we wanted.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Ha ha ... but could also provide for lots nice quotes as we get deeper into the season ... eggs on faces?

We're almost half way through the season... no one wants to see Lukaku fail (and if they do they are just trolling and not worth a response) but he just seems to have such glaringly obvious flaws in his game.

It worries me that we keep coming back to how bad he is technically because it's surely crucial for any attacking player in today's game to be very strong in that area? His mistake that gave them the second goal wasn't just a bad clearance, it was a complete mishit where he had time to watch the flight of the ball and had zero pressure. It's bread and butter stuff.

Too many people on the caf yo-yo between a player being crap and great and that isn't the issue here. Lukaku is good but he's nothing more than that. I don't think he's what we need right now if we do want to challenge for the PL and CL although I want to be wrong.

 

[crossy1686]

It's his general play and perceive lack of effort which concerns me, not his conversion ratio.

Would be interested to know his comparative distance covered stats.

Lukaku was doing a hell of a lot of running yesterday, to the point where it was annoying he was too deep chasing fullbacks into our half. He needs to be as far up top as possible so we have an outlet when we win back possession deep in our half. You never saw the likes of Alan Shearer or Van Nistelrooy being leathered for not covering as much distance as other players. It's simply not his job.

 

[whatwha]

Yes he should have buried the chance he got, but then don't forget the times Marcus and Anthony blaze there shots over when chances present themselves.

Can't think of many times Martial has blazed a shot over tbh.

 

[Minimalist]

It's his general play and perceive lack of effort which concerns me, not his conversion ratio.

Would be interested to know his comparative distance covered stats.

In all honesty I don't see the lack of effort. It's certainly not as amplified as it would appear to folks posting here. His general play I genuinely don't care about provided he scores goals.

I never expected Lukaku to be great on the ball bar dribbling at pace towards goal. The fee (£75m) was to me all about his ability to score goals regularly provided he got the service. If his general play is so awful that it becomes obvious he's the weak link, that's different. But I really don't see that. Him and Lingard were about as good as each other yesterday and the latter is supposed to be one of our 'creative' players.

 

[Zoo]

His loss of composure in a big game was the biggest takeaway from yesterday, perfectly displayed during that awful attempt to clear the ball for Otamendi’s goal. It reminded me of Pogba against Liverpool last year. Hopefully this experience will help him in the future.

 

[Fortitude]

How many comments of "hes shit", "never wanted him here", "Morata is better" have we seen?

Yea but that's white noise there's plenty of 'constructive' criticism in there, too.

Lead-line striker for a top club is such a crucial position, though, that there's bound to be a massive weight on the shoulders of anyone tasked with the job. Unfortunately, the weight of it seems to be drowning the guy and Jose doesn't hook him or move him to the flank and that means the player is forced to play throughout a game where his head's gone, which really doesn't help.

 

[Irish Jet]

To be fair, I think Zlatan is in a different class all together. Last year he was absolutely amazing for his age.

The thing is in the summer at one stage it look like Griezmann was the 1st choice until he decided to stay at Atletico and then it looked like Morata.
Don't tell me we didn't know that Lukaku doesn't have a great first touch and neither is his distribution that great.
But I am not going blame him for a disappointing team performance with the exception of maybe Lingard yesterday.

Griezmann falling apart doesn't mean you just desperately buy whatever's available. Lukaku was bought because Mourinho wanted him. If we wanted Morata we could have got him for sure. We could have pushed for plenty of others too with the financial power we have or invested in getting goals from other positions. The idea that it was Lukaku or bust is farcical.

My posts have next to nothing to do with the City game. I don't blame him for yesterday at all - He contributed to the defeat but there were more basic issues all over the team. I blame Mourinho more than anyone for yesterday.

My observations go back to his time with Everton and why I was incredibly wary of the signing to begin with. I get that people would say "just get behind him" and when he's playing of course I do. But I'm not going to bury my head in the sand to his pretty woeful form while I'm at it. He seems to be getting held to a different standard to other players - He shouldn't be indulged by the manager like he is. I'd love for him to prove me wrong and become a United legend, winning all the trophies in the process. I just see that as extremely unlikely given everything I've seen from him.

 

[Foxbatt]

He has technical deficiencies that he will not be able to overcome. He never moves towards the ball when a pass is made. It makes it easier for defenders to nick it away from him. His first touch is terrible most of the times and when he does not move towards the ball, there is no way he is going to get it under control.
He most of the times makes the wrong move. How many times have we seen him on the back foot for a pass? Lots. If we are not win the PL and or the CL we need a world class striker. Lukaku is not a world class striker. In a club like Everton where he gets the most or the only chances he will score more. In a top club like United, where the goals may come from all over the place his contribution is minus NOW.
Yes he scored a lot of goals against poor opposition but he needs to score against top and he has not delivered. He needs to be rested now. That said I do not think Rashford is a player who can hold up the ball either and neither is Martial. They are simply better players than Lukaku in an attacking sense.

 

[BusbyMalone]

It's his general play and perceive lack of effort which concerns me, not his conversion ratio.

Would be interested to know his comparative distance covered stats.

Are you talking specifically about yesterday when you say this, or the season in general?

Because if it's this season in general you're talking about then that's nonsense. You can't fault the guy for his effort since he's moved to the club. That's been one of the most surprising things about him, for me. His work rate has been top class since his move here. At Everton i found him a little lazy, but he's been fantastic in that department for us.

Also, his all round game has been equally fantastic. Just cast your mind back to the Watford and Arsenal games for example where he was terrific. Some nice passes, layoffs and assists - he was great.

Yesterday he was terrible but overall, even when he's not scoring, he's been very good in a lot of the games.

 

[Darkhorsez]

We're almost half way through the season... no one wants to see Lukaku fail (and if they do they are just trolling and not worth a response) but he just seems to have such glaringly obvious flaws in his game.

It worries me that we keep coming back to how bad he is technically because it's surely crucial for any attacking player in today's game to be very strong in that area? His mistake that gave them the second goal wasn't just a bad clearance, it was a complete mishit where he had time to watch the flight of the ball and had zero pressure. It's bread and butter stuff.

Too many people on the caf yo-yo between a player being crap and great and that isn't the issue here. Lukaku is good but he's nothing more than that. I don't think he's what we need right now if we do want to challenge for the PL and CL although I want to be wrong.

Fair enough. But his number one job for us is to put the ball in the net. On that front, he fits the bill. His confidence is pretty low right now and I think Mou is working on that front. Agree on his general play being inconsistent and hopefully that improves with time. I think also he is not getting much help behind him either. I will be honest that he was never my kind of player but as a Man Utd supporter, I am fully behind him and hope he turns it around. I think we can sometimes be quick to judge players in either direction. Just happens that right now, he is everyones’ whipping boy. Seems a tad unfair.

 

[Red_toad]

May as well shut down every football forum then.

Good debate is always worth while. Calling someone a Cnut and other such things as they didn't play football the way you expect is just bizarre.

 

[M Bison]

I feel for him, I really do.

He's getting battered and while his performances haven't been good - the boys behind him are not good at all.

I completely agree, he gets absolutely nothing to work with, the players around him offer nothing going forward. I think he could definitely do more, should run the channels more, hold the ball up better and put more pressure on the defence but he certainly wasn't the sole reason for the poor attacking performance yesterday, just one of a number of problems.

 

[Cassidy]

fecking hell, so your idea of a striker who will cost £90m playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world is someone who isn't clinical and can score some goals when given loads of chances. We might as well have signed some average donkey from the Championship for £10m if that's all we wanted.

No its not my idea, but its what we have to do between now and the end of the season if we want to win anything.
Playing to knick games 1-0 with Lukaku up top isn't going to get us anywhere

 

[Cassidy]

A lot of people keep saying we are not playing to his strengths.

What the hell are 'his strengths'? I'm still trying to work that out.

Certainly not to be a lone striker you pump long balls to and expect him to keep it and bring others into play.