Rather he than Falcao on the bench. Other than that, meh.
20
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 29
- Goals
- 10
- Assists
- 3
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Status
I don't see why there has to be a cost. RvP can take Falcao's spot on the sub bench and when the time is right and Fellaini needs to come off then RvP can come on in the striker role as Falcao has these past few games while Rooney falls back into ACM and Di Maria replaces Young.
Same system as the past few games and no cost.
Good to have him back but he shouldn't be anywhere near the starting line-up. Time for him to prove himself again.
He never looked right since the World Cup. I think with the right recovery time he'll be back to his best. Class is permanent.
Talk of him leaving in the summer is absolute nonsense in my opinion.
Talk of him leaving in the summer is absolute nonsense in my opinion.
It would be so frustrating if Fellaini or Herrera were benched for RvP to be shoehorned in. The last few games we have played our best football of the season, we finally have a team with all the pieces in the correct place, if LvG upsets that consistency to play RvP I'd really question him as the right guy going forward, it would be such poor management both on a team level and man management level for whoever was dropped to accommodate an out of form, frankly past it looking striker.
It's got nothing to do with form and everything to do with the fact he's looked disinterested, lazy and legless in almost every appearance this season. The lone #9 role require tireless workrate and the ability to run the channels and open up space, RvP doesn't have the ability to do that role now IMO.
Agree, it makes me nervous - both in the City and Chelsea games.
The thing is that he should normally play with the reserve team before coming back with the first team no ? Van Gaal made an exception for Carrick because he's vital to our balance, but this season, RVP is not vital, and we can even question whether he will be a better sub than Falcao...
I think that, and I hope, that LVG will stick with his formation, and keep Rooney upfront, then RVP will have to compete with Falcao for a place on the bench
I think that, and I hope, that LVG will stick with his formation, and keep Rooney upfront, then RVP will have to compete with Falcao for a place on the bench
Zlatan plays upfront on his won for PSG and I wouldn't say tireless workrate, or ability to run the channels and open up space describes him...
Van Persie would score in this flowing confident team.
I wouldn't question this to be fair. He almost certainly will be.
It wouldn't be a flowing confident team anymore if RvP waltzed right back into the team and pushed Rooney further. And in games like City and Chelsea, Fellaini is more needed presence than RvP and his passenger acts.
Didn't the "passenger" score the late equaliser against Chelsea earlier this season?
All right then. That makes it reason enough to disrupt the one system that has worked well to fit in a past it and a rubbish RvP of this season into the team. Lets push Rooney back into midfield while we're at it and have the ever static and lazy RvP up front again. For the first time all season, since RvP has been out and Falcao hasn't played, we've looked like a proper team. We can't continue to play two strikers upfront. It's not good for the balance. Rooney is the better finisher of the two as well so it's quite easy really. RvP doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the first xi.
Last season too. I assumed Van Gaal would have him back to his best, now Moyes is gone. I assumed wrong. Looks as though the issue goes deeper than disenchantment with the manager.
Yeah, that won't happen. Permanently, at least. He is no longer good enough to start for this side.
I remember reading a stat somewhere, earlier this season (probably before Christmas), that van Persie had covered more ground than any other United player. I think it was for set of games, as well. I think he was a victim, as with most of our players, of playing in the wrong set up in a very dysfunctional team. I believe he still has a lot to offer, and with our tough fixture list, me may need his services, in the next few weeks. One thing for sure is, he won't be starting against City and we won't be shoehorning him in; look at the way in which van Gaal has relegated Falcao and di Maria to bench. I'm actually quite curious to see how he'd fare up front, on his own, maybe against Palace or West Brom (depending on results); personally, I don't think Rooney's been that impressive over the last few games and, if he continues his inconsistent/poor form against City and Chelsea, we might see a change.
Ibra actually picks up a lot of positions for PSG, he drops deep and floats wide within the game, plus he's still a big strong unit that is hard to handle, RvP looks physically weak and sluggish.
Yeah, I think it's simply a case of him hitting a physical dip sooner than a lot of players do these days, not unlike Shevchenko.
Zlatan is a freakishly intelligent player, he only runs in the right channel. One second he is walking and looking totally disinterested and the next second he is exactly where you want him to be. He can also come late and just flatten the CBs, Ibrahimovic is a different beast.
Edit: And I'm sure that he is a lot faster than he seems, he closes the distance very fast.
No, they're playing quite well because
Not everything that comes before the other is the cause of the other.
Rooney wasn't playing particularly well lately, and the goals he scored were mainly typical midfielders goals, or he was even playing as a midfielder the moment he scored. But Van Persie will get 20/30 minutes first, and then he can prove that he benefits most from the newfound patterns and decisiveness. Rooney will prove both Van Gaal and Ferguson were right in playing him behind a striker.
They are playing well for the reason I said, because everyone is in their correct place and the team is full of energy and in sync, the last thing we need to do is add a past his best striker into the mix with 7 vital games left. Herrera or Fellaini being dropped and Rooney shoved back into midfield would be crazy, he gives us a constantly moving target as the #9 and both Herrera and Fellaini have benefited with goals due to Rooney's movement and tireless workrate in the lone striker role, adding RvP would kill all of that and put focus back on trying to build our play around feeding a has been striker.
How many games can people think of where RvP and Rooney have played well together and looked like an effective partnership?
Getting the best out of one seems to have come at the expensive of the other so far.
Getting the best out of one seems to have come at the expensive of the other so far.
This x 100.
I hate to sound all dogmatic and objective, but anyone suggesting that Rooney should move back into midfield, or that we should change formation right now knows very little about football.
I should have finished that sentence, sorry about that. I think it's the in sync part that makes the difference. Finally everybody has stopped chasing towards the ball all the time, everybody knows their position, where to pass and where to move, and know it immediately so the ball can move around quickly. That releases the energy and makes it difficult for a place to be incorrect for a player. Even Mata on the wing is no problem, although he lacks pace and doesn't run at defenders. Without beeing in sync, this formation would have been a disaster a couple of months ago.
Of course, Van Gaal has to be careful not to make too much changes at once, because it could disrupt the in sync part. But this formation as it is right now is far from ideal.
He will make the bench v City and possibly replace Rooney later in the game as per Van Gaal's 'filosophee' of not rushing recently injured players back.
I think I've missed your point, why is it far from ideal? Looks pretty good from where I'm standing, we're playing probably the best football we've played for what ....3 years?
Its actually very close to ideal in that he has finally put the appropriate pieces to the puzzle together, and they all fit.
If by "far from ideal", you mean "incredibly close to ideal", then yes...
I think we absolutely must play the eleven that are winning and doing so with the kind of performances we want to see from a United team, we have 7 cup finals as Mata said, no need to tinker.
The formation is so well balanced that I don't see how it's far from ideal, sure we could do with upgrades on Fellaini and Young within the formation if we are to challenge for the PL next season, but the actual base of how LvG likes to play is there, and one of the vital aspects is Rooney up top, his movement and workrate there allows our triangles on the left and right to function so well as he pulls defenders out of position and we exploit that with the midfield runs between the fullbacks and CB's, RvP is much too slow and lacking in workrate for that and he'd hurt our overall attack as we are relying on Fellaini and Herrera to chip in as we don't get a lot of goals from the wide forwards.
Because ideally, you have speed at both wings, from players who run at defenders, ideally in midfield you have players with quicker feet and better passing than Fellaine, and ideally Rooney scores a lot of goals from behind the striker so he gets near and into the box instead of already standing there to recieve the ball.
Yes it looks pretty good, but that's because everybody knows where to be, where to move and where to pass in almost any given situation. A lot of training went into that, but finally they all know. That's important, but if players from the bench also know, changing a player for another good player wouldn't make much difference.
You think Mata on the wing is a natural fit? I think he's succesfully shoehorned in, it works well because he's a good player who understands his position and the movement around him, but it's about the movement and passing throughout the team that makes it work, the in sync part, not the perfect fit.
On the first paragraph, isn't that what an ideal formation is supposed to be like? They're winning, they're playing exciting footall and they know where to find eachother.
On the second, perhaps Mata is doing so well there because yes, he is a very gifted player and understands movement, but also that since he understads the position so well it might suit him very well?
I wouldn't say doing so well in a position is shoehorning.
It doesn't matter whether a player is a 'natural fit' - what matters is whether the team are playing well with certain players in the lineup and the positions they have been asked to play in. When you focus less on individuals and more on the collective performance of the team, things suddenly become more logical.
Oh I'd start him from the bench, and only bring him in if there is a need.
Just saying some of the comments are ridiculous, and classic of the "Hero" or "Villain" with nothing in between mentality of many fans
Fair play, I agree with that.
No need to tinker right now given we are doing so well but I don't see any issues with RVP replacing Fellaini and Rooney dropping back to a more #10-ish role. Sounds good to me.
If we take the treble winning side from 2017 as the ideal, it's not that close either. But I admit 'far from ideal' was not the right choice of words, too strong.
It's not that RVP doesn't understand the concept of triangles. I'm interested to see what RVP could do with this new style coming together finally. I don't think Rooney up top is vital, the vital change has been moving to one angle of the triangle immediately instead of moving towards the ball instinctively. Imo Rooney can be most important as a 20 goal a season, hard working, well moving midfielder, just behind the striker and getting a lot of balls to run at from that striker. For me, the fact that he can score a lot of goals and the manner in which he tends to score goals is a reason not to put him up top. He's too good at lots of other stuff than finishing and he's not particularly good at typical finishers goals. He scores his goals from positions a midfielder could and should get into.
That they know where to find eachother is not a matter of formation but the result of very intense training for about 8 months now.
No, imo for an ideal player there of course is the understanding of the position, but also a certain specific strengths, like speed and the ability to run at defenders. That's the difference between ideal and doing very well.
I'm not the one pleading for Rooney up top so he can score more goals. My focus is on the collective performance, and with a real striker in front of him, Rooney can still score 20 a season, and the striker even more. It's because I focus on the collective performance, I see the collective change over the last couple of months. That's the change in movement and understanding of eachothers movement. The opinion that RVP out has made the difference is focussed on the individual.
Give him the right pass and he's capable of producing match winners, stick him on the bench
It's not that RvP doesn't understand the triangles it's that he's too slow to provide the movement to execute their purpose within the attack, also Rooney might be able to score from deep but his short passing game is not suited to playing as a CM. Rooney up top is vital just as Benzema and Costa are vital to their teams, high pressing, tireless workrate and plenty of movement. Are you really suggesting we should start next season with RvP as the #9 and Rooney in midfield?
You're mental.
- Status