Too late.
Too late.
Wow, such a salty reply
So you don't think the reason Bayern did significantly worse this year has anything to do with the change of style? The players just suddenly decided to allow Real to completely run over them? The players just suddenly had to struggle against Moyes' United?
I'd like to see your explanation.
Dortmund had a massive injury crisis a couple of months into the season. Before that they were level with Bayern at the top of the table, but they couldn't cope with losing all their first choice defenders.
Bayern's problem was form and motivation. They were on a mission in 12/13 because of the way the previous season went and they didn't have that last season. Therefore they dropped off after winning the title so early and couldn't get their form back for the Champions League. Ribery has also been a bit crap ever since losing the Ballon d'Or.
Bayern's problem was form and motivation. They were on a mission in 12/13 because of the way the previous season went and they didn't have that last season. Therefore they dropped off after winning the title so early and couldn't get their form back for the Champions League. Ribery has also been a bit crap ever since losing the Ballon d'Or.
My head hurts. I'll get back to Lewandowski:
I think he won't have any problems finding his place in the squad. He's a perfect fit for the team, offers something different to any other player in the squad and he has a huge advantage over all the players who played in the knockout stages of the World Cup, because he's with the team from the first day of our pre-season. I expect him to be our most important attacker at the beginning of the season.
Wow, such a salty reply
So you don't think the reason Bayern did significantly worse this year has anything to do with the change of style? The players just suddenly decided to allow Real to completely run over them? The players just suddenly had to struggle against Moyes' United?
I'd like to see your explanation.
I explained it several times, I'm sure you'll find it with the search function in one of the threads where this discussion actually belongs.
Oh, the explanation is that long... Could you summarize it? Me and the search engine are sworn enemies.
Just think about it that way. How is it possible, that the team played absolutely outstanding football, beating quality teams home and away, setting several records in the CL and in the league for 8 months of the season, if the new tactics were the problem? I'm sure you find a definite answer for that as well and if it doesn't contradict with the definite opinion you posted above, then we can just agree to disagree and move on and you don't need to use the search engine to find out what I think about our performances last season.
Who are you, Arsenal?
I guess when you're the best team in the league on paper(by a huge margin) and when it's only the group stages in the CL, the tactics doesn't really matter. You'll win almost regardless then. But to lose 5-0 combined in a CL semi and struggle against Moyes' United with the team you have .. It's almost inexcusable!
If you believe that you can judge the work of a manager solely on 2 or 3 games, then frankly you've no clue what you're talking about and the whole discussion is beyond stupid.Who are you, Arsenal?
I guess when you're the best team in the league on paper(by a huge margin) and when it's only the group stages in the CL, the tactics doesn't really matter. You'll win almost regardless then. But to lose 5-0 combined in a CL semi and struggle against Moyes' United with the team you have .. It's almost inexcusable!
Who are you, Arsenal?
I guess when you're the best team in the league on paper(by a huge margin) and when it's only the group stages in the CL, the tactics doesn't really matter. You'll win almost regardless then. But to lose 5-0 combined in a CL semi and struggle against Moyes' United with the team you have .. It's almost inexcusable!
There were many reasons in my opinion:
1. They won the League like 6 games before it was over so they had a lot of meaningless games to play and fielded their B-side a couple of times.
2. Ribery being out of form after his injury, he was a shadow of the 12/13 Ribery who was a key to the treble in Heynckes side
3. Thiagos injury
4. Injuries to Schweinsteiger and Martinez who were one of the most important parts of the 12/13 team. Both only played a couple of games in the season
4. The midfield situation, Kroos and Schweinsteiger playing as defensive midfielders clearly didn't work and was one of the main reasons they lost against Real Madrid
5. In late March several players seemed to be out of form (maybe had to do something with winning the League so early), Neuer, Boateng, Alaba, Dante, Mandzukic etc. seemed very tired and not fully concentrated.
Actually - in the season before it was not the A-team that made the records but the B-team. Heynckes had a fully set B-team with about 8 players that were playing the league matches after the CL quarterfinals. Gustavo, Tymo, Shaqiri, Rafinha, van Buyten, Pizarro, Gomez, Contento - added by one of Boateng/Dante and Ribery/Robben/Müller/Kroos who often shared half times. Lahm and Schweinsteiger did not play any match in the league in that time. Even the offensives sometimes were totally left out for the matches.
Last season it was different. There was no clear B-team - were in 2012/13 you could say that it was 12 to 13 A-team players it was 15 or 16 in 2013/14 - players that could expect to play in the bigger matches. Some of the old B-team had left, some where injured etc. So Guardiola played with a mixture of totally newbies and the players who played midweeks, too.
And yes, if you know the big match is midweek and that the match you play on the weekend just does not mean anything anymore and you just do not want to get injured - you play different.
He's scored again! Really hope he starts the same way in the league, fantastic player.
Has there ever been a player least likely to flop?...Its just so obvious he's going to score an absolute shit load for them.
Showing the full skill range as well.
Holy feck, I'm about to board the train to hypeville. The dude is a monster.
Very nice display by Höjbjerg as well.
Very nice display by Höjbjerg as well.
LEwandowski scored the 3:0 - they do not need the World Champions - some U19 players, some reconvalescents etc. are enough...
Another one. Fantastic shot, that. Højbjerg looking good so far as well.
I just can't help myself..
I just can't help myself..
Bloody hell, there are no brakes on the Lewandowski train.
Other than Van Persie coming here, can't think of one. They honestly shouldn't even bother going through the rigmarole of actually playing in the Bundesliga and just hand them the trophy right now. It should be unfair for a squad that talented to be given a player as good as Lewandowski.
Wow, such a salty reply
So you don't think the reason Bayern did significantly worse this year has anything to do with the change of style? The players just suddenly decided to allow Real to completely run over them? The players just suddenly had to struggle against Moyes' United?
I'd like to see your explanation.
The Bayern 12/13 team you can't contain yourself over needed away goals to beat a poor Arsenal in the first season without Van Persie that finished a single point ahead of Spurs for 4th. Struggling but advancing in the CL knockouts doesn't mean anything.
They do not need much transfers this seasons. Höjbjerg is ripe for it.
He still has to have the nerves to do it in the important matches. When I look into his last season he was good when the matches were running well - and struggled against tight defenses. A Dortmund fan had a statistic after about 20 matches in the last season that told that Lewandowski was the least decisive striker of the Bundesliga until then. Last season he only scored goals in 6 of the first 19 or 20 matches - mostly at home and seldom or never decisive goals.
The criteria ain't scoring nice and technical good goals in the test matches - and it is not how many players Ribery or Robben can dribble out - if that helps to win matches that is very fine, if it does not it just looks good. Mandzukcic at times last season was scoring whenever needed even if it seldom was pretty.
He still has to have the nerves to do it in the important matches. When I look into his last season he was good when the matches were running well - and struggled against tight defenses. A Dortmund fan had a statistic after about 20 matches in the last season that told that Lewandowski was the least decisive striker of the Bundesliga until then. Last season he only scored goals in 6 of the first 19 or 20 matches - mostly at home and seldom or never decisive goals.
The criteria ain't scoring nice and technical good goals in the test matches - and it is not how many players Ribery or Robben can dribble out - if that helps to win matches that is very fine, if it does not it just looks good. Mandzukcic at times last season was scoring whenever needed even if it seldom was pretty.
Lewa is the best striker in the world for me.
Just turned 26! He is perfect for Peps system; he can hold the ball like no other Nr 9.
Can make the goals himself with any part of his body on a world class level but will also help his teammates, specially Götze for me. They know each other and trust is everything.
Really excited for the season.
My Bayern, Real and Barca have monster offensive lines. I would give us the label "best" but that will make the CL so great this season.
Who has the best and the best team overall.
P.S. @Mad Winger ; Bayern played one of the best seasons ever last year till late march. Injuries, bad luck and some management mistakes(perhaps) killed the run a bit.
But we won 4! trophies, 2 internationals. Beat Chelsea, Arsenal, United(still great players who are tough to beat in 2 games) Dortmund and so on.
4 trophies and a CL semis is fine for me.
The core of the team winning the WC for Germany, proofing Götze as the next great player with Neymar and so on doesnt show some back steps in the team either.
Just turned 26! He is perfect for Peps system; he can hold the ball like no other Nr 9.
Can make the goals himself with any part of his body on a world class level but will also help his teammates, specially Götze for me. They know each other and trust is everything.
Really excited for the season.
My Bayern, Real and Barca have monster offensive lines. I would give us the label "best" but that will make the CL so great this season.
Who has the best and the best team overall.
P.S. @Mad Winger ; Bayern played one of the best seasons ever last year till late march. Injuries, bad luck and some management mistakes(perhaps) killed the run a bit.
But we won 4! trophies, 2 internationals. Beat Chelsea, Arsenal, United(still great players who are tough to beat in 2 games) Dortmund and so on.
4 trophies and a CL semis is fine for me.
The core of the team winning the WC for Germany, proofing Götze as the next great player with Neymar and so on doesnt show some back steps in the team either.
Considering Lewandowski was essentially the playmaker and striker in one for Dortmund last season, especially in the tough games when nobody else possessed the necessary quality, it is no surprise that he didn't score a lot in those matches. I have not the shadow of the doubt that Lewandowski will be a big-game goalscorer for Bayern given the vastly superior support-cast.
By the way, the second goal against Wolfsburg was pretty neat as well.
By the way, the second goal against Wolfsburg was pretty neat as well.
Here is a gif. of it as well. Fantastic strike.
Was really impressed by Rode and Højbjerg as well, they've looked good thus far.
He's absolutely disgusting. phenomenal player. would be an outstanding replacement for van persie in 2/3 years time when hopefully bayern get bored with him (yea right i know)
Pretty much the one thing this Bayern team has lacked the past 3 years or so has been a top striker, and now they have one of the best ones around. Hardly a surprise that he's going to be banging them in regularly, wouldn't be surprised to see him get 40 goals this season or more even, with the chances they make.
As had Bayern and Schalke (about same number of play min. missed due to injuries across all season) . Only, Bayern could cope with it, Dortmund didn't. Clearly BVB can't maintain a bench like Bayern yet, but still - sending away Bittencourt and Leitner wasn't Klopps brightest move ever.
Höjbjerg looks extremely calm and mature for his age. I expect to see him getting a bit of playtime this season.
If LvG was still manager, he'd probably bench Schweinsteiger and play Höjbjerg for 40 games
BTW i was shocked by Starke's performance. I understand Pep wants a third option...
I love how some people try to find something, anything to put Pep down, yeah he won a lot of things but with Messi, Xavi and Iniesta in his prime, bla bla.. Yet they're quick to praise Jose like he managed some dross teams and led them to victories and tropheys..
And that notion that Bayern has degressed under Pep is ridiculous too but as I said people will find something if they really try to and that has been repeated like a mantra or sthing... two bad games vs Madrid and everybody forgets a monstrous season they had till then...
Mah, it isnt worth it..
Lewa is a phenomenal player, clealry an upgrad over Mario, not hug but really big. Too bad it didnt work out for Mario in Bayern, from the 1st day since Pep came there were problems but I'm sure he will do well in Atletico.
And that notion that Bayern has degressed under Pep is ridiculous too but as I said people will find something if they really try to and that has been repeated like a mantra or sthing... two bad games vs Madrid and everybody forgets a monstrous season they had till then...
Mah, it isnt worth it..
Lewa is a phenomenal player, clealry an upgrad over Mario, not hug but really big. Too bad it didnt work out for Mario in Bayern, from the 1st day since Pep came there were problems but I'm sure he will do well in Atletico.
Could have fetched Dortmund 30 mil at least.
Also a bit of cnut he didn't renew his deal to help Dortmund.
Also a bit of cnut he didn't renew his deal to help Dortmund.
So Marco Reus, who was voted as the best player of the last Bundesliga season and undoubtly our best offensive performer was just a passenger or what? It´s funny that you mention the tough or big games, because he actually lacked some of the deciveness he had one season before in these games and it were usually others who stood out there.
Don´t get me wrong, Lewandowski is an absolute top quality striker and it will be a challenge to replace him, but we were hardly a one man show last season.
Yeah, a promising offensive midfielder and a devensively shaky CM, who has yet to justify his Hype, would have really saved us when our whole first choice backline and CM/DM got wiped out, which led to a collapse of the core principle of Klopp´s football: our pressing system.
And of course Bayern can cope better with injury crisises, because they still double our wage bill. Struggling as much as us would have pointed a pretty bad light on them. They pay by far the most money and have thus the strongest squad.
Sphaero you should know better than myself that Marco Reus had a very inconsistent season. Where was he in late October, November, December and parts of early 2014, when BVB was in deep trouble? I remember plenty of games where Robert Lewandowski was the only decisive force in your Dortmund team, with plenty of games where he set-up chances for his teammates left and right, while very few others were able to.
Marco Reus deserved his title of the best Bundesliga player, because of his start and finish of the season. Both were extraordinary, while Lewandowski struggled a little towards the last 4 weeks. However, in my opinion over the course of your season, Lewandowski was more influential and important than Marco Reus. Especially when your team's strong collective play was not working as intended.
I'm with Sphaero here, I defended Reus for having an exceptional season during that time as well. The criticism towards Reus between November and February was a joke and didn't reflect his performances on the pitch at all. Of course he wasn't consistently great in a team struggling so heavily with injuries, but he was still the more influential and more consistent performer in comparison to Lewandowski in my opinion. I don't remember Lewandowski being that creative force during that time that you describe here.
Marco Reus more influential during the time which I described than Robert Lewandowski? I love Marco Reus, he's a genuine world-class player without the shadow of a doubt and he played an extraordinary season, but I strongly disagree with your assessment. Was the criticism Marco Reus received during that time over-exaggerated? Certainly, but what you're basically saying is that Marco Reus was Dortmund's most influential and creative player throughout the entire season. I've watched quite a lot of BVB games during that time, where Lewandowski was the deep-lying striker-playmaker and finisher at the same time, with an insane amount of work-load. Especially against tactically disciplined and deep-sitting opponents when Klopp's game-plan didn't work out, it was the Pole who excelled as a decisive player. When you look at the game against Bayern in late 2013, a time when BVB really struggled in the league, it was Robert Lewandowski who created all three major Marco Reus chances, in my view a textbook example of his dominant and crucial creative contribution to this Dortmund team at the time.
I'm pretty certain that was also the common consensus among the German Dortmund fans.
Well, whatever. As a Bayern fan, it doesn't really matter to me, who people remember as the most influential Dortmund player in 2013/14 anyway. Robert Lewandowski will write his tale as a Bayern München player in due time and the beginning of his stay looks already very, very promising. He's by far our most complete striker since the young Claudio Pizarro arrived from Werder Bremen, hopefully without the laziness and occasional motivation issues.
I'm pretty certain that was also the common consensus among the German Dortmund fans.
Well, whatever. As a Bayern fan, it doesn't really matter to me, who people remember as the most influential Dortmund player in 2013/14 anyway. Robert Lewandowski will write his tale as a Bayern München player in due time and the beginning of his stay looks already very, very promising. He's by far our most complete striker since the young Claudio Pizarro arrived from Werder Bremen, hopefully without the laziness and occasional motivation issues.
Was the player of the year 2014 already voted? Do you have a source for that? (German source would be okay for me, I can't find anything)
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Lewandowski looks like he's fitting in at Bayern stupendously. Look at Bayern, Barca and Madrid's squad and their attacking line up. There's three out of your four CL semi finalists, for me. They're all scary good and make you realise just how we've dropped and how far we are away from them all.
Everybody struggled under the loss of Hummels, Schmelzer and Subotic in a matter of a week in early November (we certainly did not struggle before that point and stabilized in early 2014) and this included Lewandowski. It were perhaps weakest two months in the league in the whole era Klopp. We lost four out the seven league matches, only managing to beat a poor Mainz side mainly because of two penalties. Lewandowski had a good performance in the draw vs. Hoffenheim and overall tried a lot, but otherwise he was pretty damn average and mostly stood out because of his growing egoism (this was consistent until the end of the season and thus not related to the performance of the rest of the team) and breaking up the few good attacking plays we had by clinging onto the call for too long and taking weird shots.
The only two convincing games in this time frame were also the most important games in the CL and there he was while overall good also not the standout player. These two games were arguably Mkhitaryan´s and Sahin´s (after his return) best games in the Dortmund shirt respectively.
BVB are the 10th biggest club in europe. Whil i agree they can't or won't accumulate a couple of european class players onm the bench like Bayern does, they still could assemble a decent squad of 22-24 players that are good enough to play in the upper quarter of the BuLi. Fact is, they didn't. Must have been a real surprise for them that there were 50+ games coming up and that players sometimes get injured. If your answer for a missing CB, Fullback, midfielder or winger is always the same one player, you're asking for trouble, and it is not bad luck that is to blame, but a failure in planning.
Bayern aside, Schalke had as much rotten luck with injuries as BVB had without making such a fuss about it.
About Bittencourt and Leitner: Both had decent seasons at their clubs for layers their age. They could have been played at BVB releasing more solid players to cover the key positions. BVB are never shy to emphasise how well young players are developed by them, yet they couldn't or wouldn't either of them.
He's amazing. He's exactly what Bayern needed.
I love watching him play, no matter how hard the ball is fizzed into him or if he is surrounded by many defenders he just somehow manages to find a way to get it under control and be able to hold it up or to be on the front foot running at the defence.