He just doesn't strike me as the type of player that would. Maybe I'm wrong but always felt like he wanted to pack a lot into a short career rather than be someone to long it out. I also think some of his main strengths like his pace and power will wane in the latter years and he'll just become a glorified poacher that will still get goals but not as many as he does now through those attributes, compared to Lewa or Kane who have more to their game.
Robert Lewandowski | Barcelona
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He just doesn't strike me as the type of player that would. Maybe I'm wrong but always felt like he wanted to pack a lot into a short career rather than be someone to long it out. I also think some of his main strengths like his pace and power will wane in the latter years and he'll just become a glorified poacher that will still get goals but not as many as he does now through those attributes, compared to Lewa or Kane who have more to their game.
Are you referring to actual defenders ability or refereeing ?
Because without pace, he is half the player.
He's poor in the air despite his physical attributes and his technique is nothing to shout about.
Currently, Haaland gets into goalscoring positions before any defender can catch him. Without his pace, it would be a lot easier for the midtable defenders to mark him. The big club defenders like Van Dijk and Rudiger can already mark him out of games because they have the speed and strength to match(or better) him.
Refereeing.
The defenders did appear to be miles better back then also but I think the modern rules and refereeing have a lot to do with that.
He wasn't robbed, he didn't get it because of the cancelled ceremony in 2020. If you mean the year after that, Messi deserved it. Messi deserved every one he got, frankly.
Nah. Lewandowski had prime Ronaldo numbers in the calendar year 2021.
Messi only got it because of the Copa but that tournament was a bit of a joke considering he was totally anonymous against Brazil(their only serious competitor in that Copa edition) in the final. Ofcourse, Messi was still very good that year(like he always is) but Lewandowski was on fire that year from start to finish and was definitely the best player on the planet.
Lewy deserved both the 2020 and 2021 Ballon D ors. Let's be real here.
I'm being real. Messi was the top scorer, top assister, best player and champion of the Copa, it's not about just one game where he got injured anyway. The tournament is not a joke at all, it is difficult to win and the play is very physical.
Lewa didn't win the CL that year, or do anything remarkable in that tournament, so his case wasn't as strong as the previous year.
The only reason why people cared about Copa and the hype around it is because it was Messi’s first international trophy.
So Argentina choking in all of the prior editions, (they were even organising it every other year for a while) is what got Messi the hype in 2021 and subsequently the Ballon d‘Or.
A typically Eurocentric view.
How about you actually give an argument rather than just accusing me of ignorance?
We all remember the memes and the hype of Messi finally winning his first NT trophy in 2021 after failing many times.
"The only reason people cared about the Copa...."
When you say this about a tournament that is watched by millions of people, I don't need an 'argument'. You've made your mind up.
What I remember about Messi in 2021 is him slowly jogging into his own half for PSG while Madrid was executing a dynamic counter against them in the CL 
Oh and him missing penalty in the same tie.
Then I read on the forum that he will win Ballon d'Or because he was good against Ecuador or something
And yeah people also claimed that he deserved it over Lewandowski because he had a lot of progressive carries, dribbles and key passes and some nonsense like that.
Basically your usual football forum BS.
Oh and him missing penalty in the same tie.Then I read on the forum that he will win Ballon d'Or because he was good against Ecuador or something
And yeah people also claimed that he deserved it over Lewandowski because he had a lot of progressive carries, dribbles and key passes and some nonsense like that.
Basically your usual football forum BS.
Lewa deserved for "HIS game" in 2020, he had a fantastic season. With the addition of lgreat stats and lots of titles involved, he was royally fvcked.
In 2021, he could have won, he wasn't precisly at the same level of "game" than the prior season, but still had great numbers, yet Messi deserved it to, like most of times happen that there are many candidates, most or many of them it's ok if they win it.
In 2021, he could have won, he wasn't precisly at the same level of "game" than the prior season, but still had great numbers, yet Messi deserved it to, like most of times happen that there are many candidates, most or many of them it's ok if they win it.
700 career goals! Ironic that he scored the 700th goal against Bayern.
Don't tell Ronaldo that we are counting youth goals too.
Deliberately misrepresenting my words. We are taking about Ballon d’Or, not how many people watch it. The only reason people cared about Copa in the context of a Ballon d’Or was because it was hyped to be his first NT trophy. Had they not choked the previous 5 times, few voters would have cared that Messi won it.
Or are you going to argue that Vidal deserved a Ballon d’Or for a Copa win a few years earlier? Or Jorginho for the Euros that same year?
No, the only reason why Ballon d’Or suddenly became a topic after the Copa win was
1) because it is Messi
2) because he finally won a trophy with Argentina
So in other words, him choking the previous times enabled him to win a ballon d’Or years later.
I guess he can argue that neither Vidal, nor Jorginho when winning their titles weren't even close to the level of Messi when he didn't win the other Copas, less when he won it. And that by your logic if he is the only reason why Argentina choked, he in those terms must receive and ubber boost when he does it apparently alone.
Also in context the same kind of agenda or favoritism Messi can enjoy (and he does), creates also another agenda where Jorginho's suddenly receives an over the top level of hype to avoid the little fella to win it.
The season as a whole wasn't just the Copa either and when Messi does his stuff, it's Messi alike, which also would logically adds to the equation. Yes many times he won awards because he is Messi, therefore the one capable of doing Messi stuff and not suddenly becoming Jorginho or Vidal if it looks convenient to make some sort of point.
It looks like Kwabs it's right that you have some sort of Euro snobish approach to the Copa as whole, mostly to not give proper credit to the importance of winning it and you are entirely entitled to have that view, so he is right to not even try to oposse it, it's pointless when you where are so clear about it.
Yet at the same time when you reduce everything to some sort of nit picking reduction, where under your consideration the value of a certain title it's very little, or not even taking in consideration HOW the player in question played that season, to not only dimminish Messi's reasons to be a candidate to win (the BTW silly) Ballon D'Or, but to consider it more or less inconceivable for him to be a solid candidate, that's simply too much. No matter your view on the value of a certain Title or the hype/aura surrounding certain player, it looks a bit too extreme.
At the end of the day, Lewa should have EASILY won it the prior year, the next one he was a solid candidate, but so was Messi and there was nothing blatantly absurd, nor wrong when he won it, nor was going to be if Lewa's even received an extra push that year because of his prior BLATANT insult of not receiving it with such a poor excuse like COVID, sthg that even Messi said while receiving the award and the "jorginho agenda" fellas read it as him not thinking be worthy of receiving it that year.
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You see, your problem is that you confuse being a member of a winning team with playing well at or being the star of a major international tournament. Messi had the most goals, the most assists and was the best player at the competition. 4 goals and 5 assists in 7 matches and he was named man of the match in 5 of those 7 games. I don't recall Vidal or Jorginho doing that.
In addition, he had his usual strong performances for a less than vintage Barcelona side, scoring about 10 less club goals than Lewa overall (for all your claims about Lewa's 'crazy' numbers that year).
Lewa of course did nothing at the Euros, so that couldn't help him, but that's not really his fault.
More critically, as I've stated before, he did nothing of note in the Champions League (in contrast to the previous year). So that hurt his case. You are basically claiming he deserved the award because he scored lots of goals in the Bundesliga. Well if that's the case, Harry Kane deserves it right now.
He wasn't 'robbed', and you repeatedly shouting that he was doesn't make it any more true.
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Criticizing Lewa for being bad at the Euros for Poland is sort of proving his point that when Messi wasn't great for Argentina all those years they didn't win the Copa, it wasn't used as a criticism against him not winning the Balon D'Or but rather just focusing on individual stats and club form.
Lewa was also injured for Bayern's knockout match with PSG, having scored in the previous two matches vs Lazio, and was a major factor in why they lost because they missed a ton of chances in that tie. Kane scored 36 in 32 while Lewa scored 41 in 29. Lewa also started the next season in similar form and scored 9 goals in the group stages while I remember Messi wasn't doing well for PSG.
It was a purely publicity vote for Messi, Lewandowski deserved it through and through.
Lewandowski scored 3 goals in 3 games at the Euros that year playing for a very weak team.
Copa is a 10 team tournament with 2 powerhouses that gets organised almost every year. It's piss easy for Argentina and Brazil to win. Also, Messi did absolutely nothing in the only tough game in that tournament, which was the final against Brazil.
Never saw any Ballon Dor shouts for the previous Copa winners and stars.
The criteria seems to change every year in favour of certain people. One year it is all about the international trophy. The next year it is purely about the stats. Another year, it is about the narrative and a lifetime achievement award. No wonder this award's buzz and credibility has diminished so drastically in the recent years.
Word.
Lewandowski scored 3 goals in 3 games at the Euros that year playing for a very weak team.
Copa is a 10 team tournament with 2 powerhouses that gets organised almost every year. It's piss easy for Argentina and Brazil to win. Also, Messi did absolutely nothing in the only tough game in that tournament, which was the final against Brazil.
Never saw any Ballon Dor shouts for the previous Copa winners and stars.
The criteria seems to change every year in favour of certain people. One year it is all about the international trophy. The next year it is purely about the stats. Another year, it is about the narrative and a lifetime achievement award. No wonder this award's buzz and credibility has diminished so drastically in the recent years.
Word.
People, you are just giving Kwabs more reason, when he said that you if you do not consider Copa a proper tournament, it's pointless to even try to debate and it certainly looks that he is right.
Yet even further, when you CORRECTLY kind of protest that is unfair not going into details to properly assess any player, in this case regarding Lewa, on the other hand apparently Messi played awuful on every Copa he didn't win, it's worth nothing when he won it and he was plain poor on PSG.
Come on, it's becoming a bit too silly.
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Nice straw man, nobody is arguing it’s not a proper tournament. We’re saying it’s the first time that a Copa win was able to determine the winner of the Ballon d’Or and the only reason for that is because it was Messi.
Tenonten is absolutely right when he said the criteria for Ballon D’Or changed every year in favour of a certain two. It’s not an achievement award, but a popularity contest granting Messi and Ronaldo an award at every opportunity.
It actually favoured Messi much more than Ronaldo. Messi’s last 2-3 wins was basically because of this. If it favoured Ronaldo to the same extent, he would’ve won it in 2018.
Nobody were arguing that it's not a proper Tourno? or nobody demerit what Messi did that season in prior posts in quite an unfair way? did you read the prior posts, included your very own?. Come on.
It was a popularity contest since always and the criteria was always fickle as it comes since day one, even in late years it didn't always favored Messi or CR, not that they needed much help to be always suitable candidates for years. And at the end of the day in the year we are talking about Lewa as good as he was, wasn't in the same level at the Covid one nor was so head and shoulders above everyone to be so annoyed, that's what at the end of the day it sounds a bit silly to be that annoyed. I obviosuly get that given he was royally fvcked the prior Season, it felt like he "deserved" to be compensate it given he also had a very good one, but not to the extent it was implied in some posts, Messi played really fecking great that season in a level that made him a clear candidate. Anyway, we won't share the same opinion, no big deal, no need to drag it further. It's ok man.
You just talk randomly here about the years when Messi won, you need to be more specific. Which years do you have an issue with? Messi usually won big trophies in addition to his form and stats, and his all round stats (not just goals) and performances were typically way above what Lewa produced in 2021. If there's a particular year that you have an issue with, highlight it.
We're talking about 2021, when Lewa had 57 club goal contributions that season, and a league title that Bayern always win. Messi had 52 club goal contributions, and a Copa America title in which he had 9 goal contributions in 7 games, the best player award and 5 man of the match awards. Lewa was not 'robbed' and it is totally illogical to say that he was.
Far from diminishing, the Ballon D'Or award has increased exponentially in prestige over the years, you need to study the history of it.Lewandowski scored 3 goals in 3 games at the Euros that year playing for a very weak team.
Copa is a 10 team tournament with 2 powerhouses that gets organised almost every year. It's piss easy for Argentina and Brazil to win. Also, Messi did absolutely nothing in the only tough game in that tournament, which was the final against Brazil.
Never saw any Ballon Dor shouts for the previous Copa winners and stars.
The criteria seems to change every year in favour of certain people. One year it is all about the international trophy. The next year it is purely about the stats. Another year, it is about the narrative and a lifetime achievement award. No wonder this award's buzz and credibility has diminished so drastically in the recent years.
Word.
You display a lot of ignorance here about the Copa America, with all due respect.
Argentina hadn't won it since the early 90s before 2021 and hadn't won it since the 60s prior to that, so to say that it is 'easy to win' or that there are 'only 2 teams' is just wrong. It's been won by 5 different countries even since the turn of the century.
This is nonsense. Both of them deserved all of their wins, Messi won more because he is the better player. It's as simple as that. There's no such thing as an underseving Ballon D'Or winner. The fact that other people could also have won it in any given year does not mean that the winner did not deserve it. I'd say that for those two and for other winners who always get pilloried, like Nedved and Modric.
Expected to open this thread to read about Lewandowski and his great form but it's the usual Messi fanboys doing their mental gymnastics and polluting yet another football forum thread with their gibberish. Isn't there a dedicated thread for this nonsense. Absolutely tedious to scroll through.
Taking away Messi and Ronaldo because they're freaks and not pure strikers. Lewandowski must be the best striker over the last 20 years. I'd have have him just over Benzema and Suarez
What about over the last 25 years?
The GOAT. Insane striker, the best of our generation.
Flick turned him into a monster again
Easily, top quality player.
And to think if it wasn't for a volcano he could have ended up at Blackburn, being managed by Sam Allardyce.
Insane. Best striker in my lifetime.His record under Flick:
85 matches, 100 goals + 24 assists
The greatest striker I have ever seen and the most underrated Footballer ever. Imagine if he was from Brazil/Argentina/France/England/Germany/Spain. There would be no debate.
Robbed of multiple Ballon D ors.
Robbed of multiple Ballon D ors.
I find it hard to rank him as a player. He’s obviously a historic striker with incredible longevity but he seems so stiff and robotic on the pitch. He’s a machine and uber efficient at what he does but lacks the magic and ingenuity of players like Suarez who could pull a rabbit out of a hat in his prime; as evidenced by his years at Liverpool. I couldn’t imagine Lewandowski doing half of the stuff Suarez was doing those seasons despite being a better, more efficient scorer for longer.
It’s a tricky one really. It really depends on what you value more. The qualitative, intangible stuff or a well oiled, efficient machine.
It’s a tricky one really. It really depends on what you value more. The qualitative, intangible stuff or a well oiled, efficient machine.
Give me a CF like him instead of Haaland.
You must have missed his entire peak then. This is him at 36.
Has scored plenty of great goals in his prime and goals of all kinds. Bicycle, volley, acrobatic stuff, solo goals, backheels, long shots, headers, free kicks he has done it all. He's anything but robotic. He used to have the best first touch and ball control.
His hold up play with back to goal is levels above Suarez.