Rob Dawson ESPN: Solskjaer tells players he wants to implement a more attacking 4-3-3 this season.

Rozay said:
For me it is (as it always seems to be with our team), where do his best qualities lie? We always seem to be struggling to make an XI gel.

With this change, we’d be going from a system, as @Ali Dia has correctly pointed out repeatedly that doesn’t fit Pogba as the best role for him in the 4231 would be the 10 - to one which, to me, makes Bruno the odd one out. He obviously deserves a crack at stamping his role in the 3, but the switch immediately swings the suitability from Bruno to Pogba, in terms of who is in their optimised formation.

What are your views on this @Ali Dia ? I agreed with tour position before that ‘Sancho gives us what Pogba offers on the left and Bruno is the 10 so he doesn’t fit’, and would like to know your take should we switch to a midfield 3.

Another issue not discussed is the centre forward role for me. Moving to a traditional midfield 3 should in theory help us control a football match better, but it also creates a greater need for a striker who can out up 20+ goals, especially if Bruno’s attentions are to be focused elsewhere further back. We’d need Cavani, at 34/35 or Martial to really deliver numbers, especially as Rashford, our main goal threat from wide, will be out.
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I think Bruno will improve massively playing further back as an 8 in the midfield 3. He’ll just have to adjust back to how he used to be at Sporting. My only worry is that his Ball retention isn’t that good and he hasn’t really shown here at United any sort of ability to establish control or a rhythm but having seen him previously at Sporting he i believe is fully capable of adapting but it will put a lot of onus on both Bruno and Pogba to improve as footballers and their tactical awareness and positioning. But if it doesn’t work and there is a player that makes us better and Bruno no longer has a spot in the team then that’s just football.

I Personally don’t think bruno playing as a 10 is what is best for the team and to me caused quite a few issues last season in our ability to actually control games.

As for goal tallies, City played without a recognised 9 last season. I don’t think we need that one scorer to be successful although it would be nice but between Martial, Rashford, Cavani, Sancho, Greenwood, Bruno, Pogba there should be more than enough goals there in my opinion.

Should make for an interesting season to see what Ole does tactically to try and make it work. Have my own ideas and I’m sure many others do so will see what happens. I also wouldn’t be surprised that if Martial comes in to some sort of form if he’ll be deployed as a false 9 with Sancho, Rashford BrunoPogba given permission to get beyond him. Again something we have kind of done over previous seasons.
 
Bruno used to sometimes wait up top alot waiting for the ball to come and realise no one was passing it to him and drop deep to help the creativity start from deep.

That is all that is happening in my opinion- every time Pogba is free to make a run Bruno will be trying to make the creative pass from deep- likewise when Bruno is free it will be Pogba trying to get the ball to him.

We wont suddenly stop playing CAM - it just means that they take turns throughout the course of the match. It actually sounds dangerous if implemented right.
 
Ali Dia said:
Like Pogba did for France? You’re totally guessing and stating it as if it will become fact when the reality is it’ll probably be very similar to the other 5 years and how he was for Juve too. Let’s hope the signings (Varane especially) do a better job of covering for him than at the Euros or than I think they will or can. I’m very interested to see what ole is cooking up but whatever happens you’re constantly shitting on our other midfield players to big Pogba up when the truth is they’ve been doing their jobs pretty well in the box to box. It’s Pogba who hasn’t been able to for whatever reason.
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Yes like he did for France at the world cup, a good example actually.

As for the rest I don't get what you're saying, I like most of our midfield options and I haven't shat on anyone. Go into Fred or Scott's thread and pick out even 5 posts of me shitting on them (unlike you and Pogba). In fact, I even made a thread saying I think all our midfield options are very good under the right setup: How bad are our midfield options really?

The thing I constantly shit on is our setup with 2 DM's constantly playing as well as a disjointed 10, which unfortunately means that the McFred combo bears the brunt of it. But what you've written there is pure rubbish based on your dislike of Pogba.
 
If are to drop Bruno a little further back into midfield, he needs to change up his game a little more and slow it down a bit so he does not lose the ball so often. I would love to see him paired in midfield with VDB and then and then a defensive midfielder. McT should be used in that role as he is energetic and gets around the pitch well, if not him we need to go out and get one. I would not trust Fred for that role as he has a few brain farts every game.
 
He'sRaldo said:
Yes like he did for France at the world cup, a good example actually.

As for the rest I don't get what you're saying, I like most of our midfield options and I haven't shat on anyone. Go into Fred or Scott's thread and pick out even 5 posts of me shitting on them (unlike you and Pogba). In fact, I even made a thread saying I think all our midfield options are very good under the right setup: How bad are our midfield options really?

The thing I constantly shit on is our setup with 2 DM's constantly playing as well as a disjointed 10, which unfortunately means that the McFred combo bears the brunt of it. But what you've written there is pure rubbish based on your dislike of Pogba.
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Pogba's world cup performances are really overrated and looked at fondly because they ended up winning. Pogba himself was the same Pogba we've seen at United. He could pull out moments of sheer genius but also got caught out in midfield a lot. The difference is he had Kante next to him and solid centre backs behind him to cover for him. And even that didn't work this time.
 
Adisa said:
Please be true.
Will affect Fernandes' numbers but the team should be better off.
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Fernandes may need to adapt his game to be more ball retention oriented I feel. He will no longer have the safety net of Fred and Mctominay behind him if he loses the ball.
 
To play a 433 our pressing needs to be a lot better and more cohesive. At the minute it's too easy to play around our press and it will become much more of a problem when we have a lone DM shielding the defence rather than 2.
 
Ole's screen said:
Pogba's world cup performances are really overrated and looked at fondly because they ended up winning. Pogba himself was the same Pogba we've seen at United. He could pull out moments of sheer genius but also got caught out in midfield a lot. The difference is he had Kante next to him and solid centre backs behind him to cover for him. And even that didn't work this time.
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I don't really care to agree or disagree with that, as it isn't the point i was making.

He'sRaldo said:
The beauty of having a team full of quality is that the players who usually wouldn't track back for lesser teams, tend to do so in a team when the level of quality is on par with theirs across the board.
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This was the point, and Pogba's world cup performances are good enough evidence of it.
 
Adisa said:
Please be true.
Will affect Fernandes' numbers but the team should be better off.
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His numbers have already begun their descent. Take away penalties, and he only scored 7 goals in 2021 despite playing a free role. The team certainly needs a change in system and approach if we are to reach our objectives.
 
Eternitiy said:
His numbers have already begun their descent. Take away penalties, and he only scored 7 goals in 2021 despite playing a free role. The team certainly needs a change in system and approach if we are to reach our objectives.
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This
 
Bertie 2 Hats said:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...an-united-training-spotted-greenwood-21052619

United confirmed the appointment of former Chelsea Under-23 assistant Eric Ramsay earlier this week as their first set-piece specialist and individual development coach.... United conceded 14 goals from set-pieces last season as it constantly proved to be a thorn in Solskjaer's side, and the appointment of a coach to deal with the problem is certainly a step in the right direction... Ramsay has already got started and his impact will hopefully be clear to see when United return to action..
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Excellent. Great recon to identify that we conceded 14 goals from set pieces.

Does that data set parse out goals scored “directly” — such Ward-Prowse (sp?) — as opposed to goals conceded on a second or third touch? The former can blamed on the keeper, whereas the latter on the defenders…with some exception based on unique circumstances.

And can we determine from that data set how many points we dropped as a result of conceding goals on set pieces?
 
Adisa said:
Please be true.
Will affect Fernandes' numbers but the team should be better off.
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I don’t mean to sound rude, but who the feck gives a shit about Fernandes numbers? As long as we continue getting pens his numbers won’t suffer anyway as they are 2/3s of his goals. If 433 gets us better more consistent results as a team I couldn’t care less if Bruno scores 0 goals.
 
Adnan said:
It really wasn't obvious, and I predicted he would prioritize a CB over a DM if he wanted to implement a high pressing game with lightening quick transitions, due to the backline (CBs) required to play with high risk which has been reported by both Dawson and Ducker.
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Nah people were talking about this before last season. Its old news.
 
I think Fred at DM in this system isn't nearly as worrisome as some are saying. We'd be looking to win the ball higher up, with Fred filling in the gaps. I'm sure if he was asked to played with a little more discipline he could, and he's hardly short of stamina.
 
He'sRaldo said:
Yes like he did for France at the world cup, a good example actually.

As for the rest I don't get what you're saying, I like most of our midfield options and I haven't shat on anyone. Go into Fred or Scott's thread and pick out even 5 posts of me shitting on them (unlike you and Pogba). In fact, I even made a thread saying I think all our midfield options are very good under the right setup: How bad are our midfield options really?

The thing I constantly shit on is our setup with 2 DM's constantly playing as well as a disjointed 10, which unfortunately means that the McFred combo bears the brunt of it. But what you've written there is pure rubbish based on your dislike of Pogba.
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What about the Euros? Ignoring that? Clearly a great team. The best players will track back in the best teams. That’s the point you made. It’s false in pogbas case
 
Ole's screen said:
Pogba's world cup performances are really overrated and looked at fondly because they ended up winning. Pogba himself was the same Pogba we've seen at United. He could pull out moments of sheer genius but also got caught out in midfield a lot. The difference is he had Kante next to him and solid centre backs behind him to cover for him. And even that didn't work this time.
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Absolutely. The same poster was saying if we’d Kante instead of the lads Pogba could do his thing. Which has also been proved to be false. Pogba can only safely do his thing in a 433. He’s been panned and called out while playing in a 2 for France, United and Juve but the penny clearly hasn’t dropped with some people. It’s always the teammates fault. Mad.
 
Ali Dia said:
What about the Euros? Ignoring that? Clearly a great team. The best players will track back in the best teams. That’s the point you made. It’s false in pogbas case
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Same thing, but tbh I'm not in the least bit interested in your assessment of Pogba as you clearly just don't like the guy. And I have no intention of turning this into another Pogba micro-analysis/bashing thread.

So I'll just say that IMO all our midfield options fit 4-3-3 over 4-2-3-1, and leave it there.
 
Adnan said:
What did you mention?
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The talk at the time was Oles 4-2-3-1 at Molde and how that may be too negative in the PL. It was considered that Ole would want 2 top CB's ( due to the Glazers its taking this long to get them) They got him Maguire in his first summer in charge but didnt get him a top CM and United lost Herrera. Most people had the understanding that he would switch to a 4-3-3 to accomodate Pogba who at that stage still had 3 years left on his deal. Unfortunately for Ole he has had to build his team over 3 years and is still not finished.

Here is the thing, I dont see how it works unless we are confident in keeping Pogba (im not) plus we still need another top CM unless vdB steps up his game.
 
He'sRaldo said:
Same thing, but tbh I'm not in the least bit interested in your assessment of Pogba as you clearly just don't like the guy. And I have no intention of turning this into another Pogba micro-analysis/bashing thread.

So I'll just say that IMO all our midfield options fit 4-3-3 over 4-2-3-1, and leave it there.
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No, it’s just Pogba that doesn’t fit into one.
 
Have people forgotten the World Cup was 3 years ago?
 
Adisa said:
Please be true.
Will affect Fernandes' numbers but the team should be better off.
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how so?

Bruno only started playing the #10 role at United. Didn’t play it prior at Sporting for the majority of his tenure there where he put up great numbers that more or less transferred over to United/EPL.
 
Ali Dia said:
No, it’s just Pogba that doesn’t fit into one.
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Fred? McTominay? Matic? Donny? Even Bruno (if looking at pure performances)?

To me these are all clear 4-3-3 midfielders, there's no way we should have been playing a double pivot of Fred + Scott together so often last season, as they didn't complement each other at all and it made them both get quite a bit of unwarranted stick.

I reckon you're the only one who wouldn't see anything wrong with that sort of setup.
 
He'sRaldo said:
Fred? McTominay? Matic? Donny? Even Bruno (if looking at pure performances)?

To me these are all clear 4-3-3 midfielders, there's no way we should have been playing Fred + Scott together so often last season, as they didn't complement each other at all and it made them both get quite a bit of unwarranted stick.

I reckon you're the only one who wouldn't see anything wrong with that sort of setup.
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Youre going around the site with this narrative that he’s definitely staying. It’s his teammates fault he can’t play in two. He’ll probably track back more if we make more signings…. Like come on man. You’re reaching all over the place. Whose to say he might also continue to jog around here for a year and then leave on a free? I suppose you’re one of the people saying keeping for a year is better than selling too? It’s extreme fandom. You have to go on the facts up to this point.

at Juve he was regularly called out for not defending. He needed to develop that side of his game to truly be an elite midfielder.

Pogba played with Herrera and or fellaini and it was really slack so brought in matic.

Matic Pogba worked so well that we signed fred to do the dirty work instead.

Now that doesn’t work. His teammates here are the reason he’s not flying it just look at what he does with France with much better players…

Proceeds to the the exact same thing with France as he’s done here. Create, big himself up and disappear. He poses more questions than answers most of the time.

He’s better as an attacker with no defensive duties but Bruno is better.

You're here trying to run this narrative that he is far better than he has been. He’s a good player but I wouldn’t pay him 400k a week for what he offers. He could just as easily be gone by the end of this window. If he left now his legacy would be underwhelming. That’s not his teammates fault and the answer to that isn’t more signings or squeezing one more year out of him and letting him go on a free for a second time.
 
Dominos said:
To play a 433 our pressing needs to be a lot better and more cohesive. At the minute it's too easy to play around our press and it will become much more of a problem when we have a lone DM shielding the defence rather than 2.
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Our pressing is not the worst though, its our playing out from the back that needs more work.
 
Ali Dia said:
Youre going around the site with this narrative that he’s definitely staying. It’s his teammates fault he can’t play in two. He’ll probably track back more if we make more signings…. Like come on man. You’re reaching all over the place. Whose to say he might also continue to jog around here for a year and then leave on a free? I suppose you’re one of the people saying keeping for a year is better than selling too? It’s extreme fandom. You have to go on the facts up to this point.

Pogba played with Herrera and or fellaini and it was really slack so brought in matic.

Matic Pogba worked so well that we signed fred to do the dirty work instead.

Now that doesn’t work. His teammates here are the reason he’s not flying it just look at what he does with France with much better players…

Proceeds to the the exact same thing with France as he’s done here. Create, big himself up and disappear. He poses more questions than answers most of the time.

He’s better as an attacker with no defensive duties but Bruno is better.

You're here trying to run this narrative that he is far better than he has been. He’s a good player but I wouldn’t pay him 400k a week for what he offers. He could just as easily be gone by the end of this window. If he left now his legacy would be underwhelming. That’s not his teammates fault and the answer to that isn’t more signings or squeezing one more year out of him and letting him go on a free for a second time.
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He'sRaldo said:
tbh I'm not in the least bit interested in your assessment of Pogba as you clearly just don't like the guy. And I have no intention of turning this into another Pogba micro-analysis/bashing thread.
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Ramshock said:
The talk at the time was Oles 4-2-3-1 at Molde and how that may be too negative in the PL. It was considered that Ole would want 2 top CB's ( due to the Glazers its taking this long to get them) They got him Maguire in his first summer in charge but didnt get him a top CM and United lost Herrera. Most people had the understanding that he would switch to a 4-3-3 to accomodate Pogba who at that stage still had 3 years left on his deal. Unfortunately for Ole he has had to build his team over 3 years and is still not finished.
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His 4-2-3-1 at Molde wasn't negative at all, but rather very attacking. All formations could be attacking and all formations could also be used to stifle and react to the opposition. It all depends on how the coach wants to approach the game regardless of the formation.

The formation isn't important but rather how the coach wants to implement his style of play. Bayern used a 4-2-3-1 when they won the UCL, but the difference between us and them is that they play that style by implementing a high line in a very imposing manner, on the ball and off the ball.

So when I said earlier about, what's being reported is similar to what I predicted. It didn't have anything to do with formations, but rather us playing a more imposing game by playing a higher defensive line which would help us both on the ball and off the ball due to us having a counter pressing threat aswell as being much more effective at transitioning play.
 
Ali Dia said:
i prefer United to any player. You’re willing to shit on and undermine several of our players to excuse pogbas limitations and fluctuating performances

It’s pure fanboism at this point.
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Sorry mate but I've seen enough of you in Rashford and Pogba threads to know to steer clear.
 
Not sure I'm a fan of moving Bruno out of the 10 position. He's world class there.
 
He'sRaldo said:
Sorry mate but I've seen enough of you in Rashford and Pogba threads to know to stay clear.
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And I stand by what I’ve said. What have we won in the past few years?

Webe been a UEFA cup standard team, in and out of the top 4 and Pogba has been one of our leading players. It’s not a coincidence. Last 2 seasons he’s been marginalised more/out injured a lot and we’ve done better when we aren’t reliant on him
 
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