Rising anti-semitism across the world

Pogue Mahone said:
I think generally anyone who feels the need to hang flags up on their home is a rabid nationalist. Different story if they hang up flags from other countries but it’s always a political statement.
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Yeah, I was being fafetious. It's definitely a sign of Nationalism and Patriotism, especially in the US. I also think many that do it over there are ex servicemen and women.

There's a guy down the road from my lad and he flies a different flag every week. I think he's got a Swedish one this week, Canadian last week and Malaysian the week before. I've always wanted to catch him raising or taking one down to ask him why as over the years I think he's pretty much flown every flag from every country in the world. It's always a wonder with me and my son trying to work out why he chose that particular flag each time we drive past.
 
langster said:
Yeah, I was being fafetious. It's definitely a sign of Nationalism and Patriotism, especially in the US. I also think many that do it over there are ex servicemen and women.

There's a guy down the road from my lad and he flies a different flag every week. I think he's got a Swedish one this week, Canadian last week and Malaysian the week before. I've always wanted to catch him raising or taking one down to ask him why as over the years I think he's pretty much flown every flag from every country in the world. It's always a wonder with me and my son trying to work out why he chose that particular flag each time we drive past.
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Now that is hard to explain! Maybe he just REALLY likes flags?!
 
Ali Dia said:
He’s a huge UN fan?
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feck it, I'm going to go round and ask him. Great idea until I find out he takes foreign exchange students from all over the world and flies their flags when they stay before he murders them and wraps them in the flags before he burries them in his back yard.

Back on topic.

There was an anti-Israel march in Torquay on Saturday, had about 50 or so idiots with signs walking through all the Christmas shoppers and making everyone feel uneasy.
 
Neo Nazism definitely feels like it’s become more mainstream recently. They’re being empowered by latching onto the general anti-Israeli sentiment.
 
Israel government behaves like a terror organisation so it's no wonder. No different to the anti US sentiment around the world.

I find more worrying the anti migrant rhetoric (blaming them for economic decline, crime, etc) that is taking over the media and the new loud far-right political parties.
 
Is there actually a rise of anti-semitism. People mention it but it's the usual crowd a large bunch of far-right/neo nazis and a smaller bunch of far left anti-capitalists. As far as I can remember if you interact with either groups it will take minutes before they have something to say about jews and money.

Now there is a clear increase of anti-Israel/Israeli sentiment but that's a bit different.
 
Gee Male said:
Ireland is definitely not anti-Semitic, not at any type of scale, not even close. Even while pro-Palestine, people aren't anti-Israel at all.

We are definitely anti-killing a massive amount of innocent people though.

I'm very proud of our stance in this. We have cross-party support on it too, opposition very much aligned with government. It's great to see.
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As you should be. Ireland belongs to the few countries in Europe that stand on the right of History alongside Spain, Norway, Sweden and Portugal.

There's been a deliberate conflation between criticism of Israel and its Nazi-like policies toward the Palestinians, and the abject, undying anti-semitism that has been prevalent in Europe and the US throughout the centuries, albeit in an infinitesimal measure nowadays.

Given the state of mind of the world and particularly Europe and the West, I'm having a hard time giving any credit to this "rise of anti-semitism". If any, Jews are safer in any part of the West and the rest of the world, to an extent, than Israel. Any wrong word about Israel in the West could effectively mean the end of anyone's career, especially when they're high profile.

The US and Germany to their eternal shame have already passed laws that basically forbid any kind of criticism of Israel, and the mainstream western coverage of what's happening in Gaza would make Goebbels proud. The US and the West are pretty much enabling and supporting whatever Israel does without any limits, including genocide. There's been uneasy collusions and alliances, Ribbentrop-Molotov style between the certified anti-semitic European far-right and Israel under the motto "The enemy of my enemy is friend".

Aside from isolated acts from lunatics, in reaction to the Gaza genocide (or not), who have no firm ground to stand on nor any kind of widespread support among the populations, this so-called rise of anti-semitism is a myth and a scarecrow.
 
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Reapersoul20 said:
Curious with other Irish posters, Ireland is being painted on /r/jewish, /r/israel, /r/worldnews and a bunch of other sub-reddits as having this horrific problem with anti-semitisim. Has anyone ever actually encountered it in day-to-day Ireland? I haven't.
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Yes I have, the odd time before October last year and a bit more since. Mostly of the “Jews basically own/run America” type variety, encountered most recently in the classroom (I’ve been teaching the history of the Israeli-Palestinian problem). And once or twice a bit more sinister.

That said, whatever issues Ireland might have with antisemitism are nothing compared to a good few other states I can think of, many of which are on far better terms with Israel these days. And when it comes to targets of Irish racism, Jews probably rank well below many other groups.
 
That_Bloke said:
As you should be. Ireland belongs to the few countries in Europe that stand on the right of History alongside Spain, Norway, Sweden and Portugal.

There's been a deliberate conflation between criticism of Israel and its Nazi-like policies toward the Palestinians, and the abject, undying anti-semitism that has been prevalent in Europe and the US throughout the centuries, albeit in an infinitesimal measure nowadays.

Given the state of mind of the world and particularly Europe and the West, I'm having a hard time giving any credit to this "rise of anti-semitism". If any, Jews are safer in any part of the West and the rest of the world, to an extent, than Israel. Any wrong word about Israel in the West could effectively mean the end of anyone's career, especially when they're high profile.

The US and Germany to their eternal shame have already passed laws that basically forbid any kind of criticism of Israel, and the mainstream western coverage of what's happening in Gaza would make Goebbels proud. The US and the West are pretty much enabling whatever Israel does without any limits, including genocide. There's been uneasy collusions and alliances, Ribbentrop-Molotov style between the certified anti-semitic European far-right and Israel under the motto "The enemy of my enemy is friend".

Aside from isolated acts from lunatics, in reaction to the Gaza genocide (or not), who have no firm ground to stand on nor any kind of widespread support among the populations, this so-called rise of anti-semitism is a myth and a scarecrow.
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It isn’t in Germany. There are hard facts showing it’s true:
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/gesellschaft/rias-jahresbericht-antisemitismus-100.html
Almost an 83% rise within a year of antisemitic incidents.
 
2cents said:
Yes I have, the odd time before October last year and a bit more since. Mostly of the “Jews basically own/run America” type variety, encountered most recently in the classroom (I’ve been teaching the history of the Israeli-Palestinian problem). And once or twice a bit more sinister.

That said, whatever issues Ireland might have with antisemitism are nothing compared to a good few other states I can think of, many of which are on far better terms with Israel these days. And when it comes to targets of Irish racism, Jews probably rank well below many other groups.
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Interesting, I wonder is that a product of kids/students having access to YouTube/Twitter and the likes and absorbing that kind of shite that way. Probably. Fecking YouTube.
 
On a portuguese reddit I saw a jewish guy happy with this as it ensures western governments will have to keep supporting israel.
 
Reapersoul20 said:
Interesting, I wonder is that a product of kids/students having access to YouTube/Twitter and the likes and absorbing that kind of shite that way. Probably. Fecking YouTube.
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I think that’s probably part of it. But old-school stereotypes and bigotry are always available for people to draw upon to simplify and explain difficult questions at moments of high tension and crisis. Ireland isn’t necessarily immune to this.
 
JPRouve said:
Is there actually a rise of anti-semitism. People mention it but it's the usual crowd a large bunch of far-right/neo nazis and a smaller bunch of far left anti-capitalists. As far as I can remember if you interact with either groups it will take minutes before they have something to say about jews and money.

Now there is a clear increase of anti-Israel/Israeli sentiment but that's a bit different.
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It's been pretty well documented that the number of hate crimes and against Jewish and Muslim people have increased markedly over the last year or so.

Antisemitic hate crimes in London treble in year, data shows​

Hate crimes flagged as antisemitic by the Metropolitan Police rose from 562 incidents in 2022 to 1,729 in 2023 – a surge of 208 per cent.

Freedom of information data obtained by The Independent also showed that hate crimes flagged as Islamophobic rose by 49 per cent in the same period, from 940 to 1,405
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-london-hate-crime-michael-gove-b2548118.html

Big rise in antisemitic incidents in UK - charity​

From January to June 2024, the Community Security Trust (CST) recorded reports of 1,978 anti-Jewish hate incidents, up from 964 in the first half of 2023.
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https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx285v8djejo
 
HTG said:
It isn’t in Germany. There are hard facts showing it’s true:
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/gesellschaft/rias-jahresbericht-antisemitismus-100.html
Almost an 83% rise within a year of antisemitic incidents.
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"52 percent of all incidents fell into the category of Israel-related anti-Semitism. This means that the anti-Semitic statements were directed against the Jewish state of Israel and denied it legitimacy."
"In the period after October 7, RIAS recorded 415 anti-Semitic gatherings. Most of them were attributed to the political background of anti-Israel activism."

Hmmm.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
"52 percent of all incidents fell into the category of Israel-related anti-Semitism. This means that the anti-Semitic statements were directed against the Jewish state of Israel and denied it legitimacy."
"In the period after October 7, RIAS recorded 415 anti-Semitic gatherings. Most of them were attributed to the political background of anti-Israel activism."

Hmmm.
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yeah, ignore the rest of the article that details the rising number of property crimes. It obviously doesn’t fit your narrative.
 
2cents said:
I think that’s probably part of it. But old-school stereotypes and bigotry are always available for people to draw upon to simplify and explain difficult questions at moments of high tension and crisis. Ireland isn’t necessarily immune to this.
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Definitely true as well!
 
That_Bloke said:
Ja, nach dem 7.10.2023. That's the key.

It's absolutely event related and will die down as soon as a cease-fire is signed. It's in no way indicative of a permanent rise of anti-semitism.
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That wasn’t your initial claim, at least not the way I understand it.
Nonetheless, even if it will get back down to previous levels, something we have honestly no way of knowing, it doesn’t change that life in many countries has become less safe for Jewish people.
 
Not exactly surprising that antisemitic cnuts would see the widespread and legitimate criticism of Israel as an opportunity to vocalise their cuntishness and target a historically targeted group of people.
 
Jippy said:
It's been pretty well documented that the number of hate crimes and against Jewish and Muslim people have increased markedly over the last year or so.

Antisemitic hate crimes in London treble in year, data shows​


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-london-hate-crime-michael-gove-b2548118.html

Big rise in antisemitic incidents in UK - charity​


https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx285v8djejo
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Yes but that's not the really the point. Let's say it this way, there is a lot of antisemites walking the streets, I don't think that it actually increased, the difference is that a minority is more willing to be open about it. My point isn't to diminish antisemitism but the amount of incidents is negligeable compared to the amount of antisemites and these type of increases aren't actually an indication of increase in antisemitism, it's just an increase of incidents which can be linked to a number of current events topics, most of them being politics and the rise of nationalism in mainstream politics.
 
sullydnl said:
Not exactly surprising that antisemitic cnuts would see the widespread and legitimate criticism of Israel as an opportunity to vocalise their cuntishness and target a historically targeted group of people.
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Yep. Obviously. Which makes it even weirder for me when people on here pretend that nothing of the like is happening. It’s quite clear that there are many people and institutions who clearly try to use this horrible conflict as a way to further their agendas, both antisemitic and anti-Islam.
 
Under-rated how much twitter under lack of moderation/Elon's personal moderation has changed in the big accounts.

40,000 likes on this one, and I've seen screenshots of similar posts getting more.



On the twitter Palestinian side, there are at least 3-4 massive accounts that are clearly anti-semitic. Jake Shields and Dr Maria Loupes (forgot the exact name) both are Elon-era bluechecks with millions of followers who are at best white nationalist anti-semites and at worst simply pro-Hitler. AF Post is I think run by Nick Fuentes groupies and does good numbers too, with both pro-America and anti-Israel, not very subtly anti-Jewish, content.
I also wouldn't be surprised if many Palestinians are building shrines to Himmler, and with very understandable reason, but I haven't seen too much of it on twitter. (With obvious caveats - I don't translate many Arabic tweets, and the people being killed are less likely to be online)
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
To be fair, if you see a house draped in Union Jacks you’ll assume they’re a Farage voter. And anyone who flies an Israeli flag will be assumed to be a Zionist.

So you can see why Jewish people might assume the worst when they see Palestinian flags all over Dublin. Especially if they’re ignorant about Ireland’s historical reasons for supporting Palestine.
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Not sure why the Palestinian flag should be associated with anti-semitism or pro-Hamas sentiment? Its a symbol that's become synonymous with opposing genocidal and colonialist sentiment, and is often found to make appearances in anti-war, workers rights and anti-imperialist marches. You also see them in football stadiums of clubs with fanbases that have a strong leftist or anti-imperialist ethos (when they're allowed in the ground that is). Heck its proudly waved by Jewish anti-war groups like Jewish voices for peace. Its association with the heinous elements of antisemitism is what I'd describe as textbook conflation of antisemitism and anti-Israeli sentiment. Its not exactly a Hamas flag.

Anti-semitism is definitely a growing issue in the West, more so with the rising prominence of the far-right, but if someone claims they feel unsafe upon sighting of a Palestinian flag I'd argue that's a point made in bad faith instead of a genuine concern, especially when you consider the malevolent attempts to shut down any dissent or protest of Israel's ongoing genocide by labelling the flag as a symbol of hate.
 
Kaos said:
Not sure why the Palestinian flag should be associated with anti-semitism or pro-Hamas sentiment? Its a symbol that's become synonymous with opposing genocidal and colonialist sentiment, and is often found to make appearances in anti-war, workers rights and anti-imperialist marches. You also see them in football stadiums of clubs with fanbases that have a strong leftist or anti-imperialist ethos (when they're allowed in the ground that is). Heck its proudly waved by Jewish anti-war groups like Jewish voices for peace. Its association with the heinous elements of antisemitism is what I'd describe as textbook conflation of antisemitism and anti-Israeli sentiment. Its not exactly a Hamas flag.

Anti-semitism is definitely a growing issue in the West, more so with the rising prominence of the far-right, but if someone claims they feel unsafe upon sighting of a Palestinian flag I'd argue that's a point made in bad faith instead of a genuine concern, especially when you consider the malevolent attempts to shut down any dissent or protest of Israel's ongoing genocide by labelling the flag as a symbol of hate.
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I agree with all that, but not with the last line. It's not in bad faith - it's genuine fear and/or hate. Many people who would call the flag anti-semitic do see the existence of a Palestinian people as an existential threat to either Israel or to Jews worldwide.
 
berbatrick said:
I agree with all that, but not with the last line. It's not in bad faith - it's genuine fear and/or hate. Many people who would call the flag anti-semitic do see the existence of a Palestinian people as an existential threat to either Israel or to Jews worldwide.
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They also tend to be racist beyond belief.
 
HTG said:
That wasn’t your initial claim, at least not the way I understand it.
Nonetheless, even if it will get back down to previous levels, something we have honestly no way of knowing, it doesn’t change that life in many countries has become less safe for Jewish people.
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You'll always have psychopathic outliers acting out because of the current circumstances, exacerbated by the absolutely horrendous way Israel is currently conducting itself, something you seem to have a hard time to stomach.

Life was less safe for Americans across in the noughties, for obvious reasons. We then had terrorist attacks in Europe. Paris. Madrid. London. Berlin.

My point is that there never was any organized crusade against Jews. Not before 10/7 and not after. There's a worldwide disapproval of Israel's appalling conduct with the exception of most of the West, particularly the US and Germany. You then have assholes taking matters in their "own hands".

Equalling it to a global, concerted rise of anti-semitism is a leap of logic I just won't take. Especially after closely following what happened in the last 15 months. It's temporary, localized and event bound. Nothing more, nothing less and it will die out on its own.
 
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berbatrick said:
Sure! I'm just saying, I don't think we can call their complaints bad faith - I think they are being true to what they believe.
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It is absolutely in bad faith, generally they either know the context of their complaints or they refuse to acknowledge said context when explained.
 
berbatrick said:
Sure! I'm just saying, I don't think we can call their complaints bad faith - I think they are being true to what they believe.
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Not sure I'd agree with that. Sure some genuinely believe they are at threat, but I find that most play up the victim angle insincerely to shut down or delegitimise any dissent or protest towards Israel's conduct, knowing full well what they're doing is a useful conflation for their cause.
 
JPRouve said:
It is absolutely in bad faith, generally they either know the context of their complaints or they refuse to acknowledge said context when explained.
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Kaos said:
Not sure I'd agree with that. Sure some genuinely believe they are at threat, but I find that most play up the victim angle insincerely to shut down or delegitimise any dissent or protest towards Israel's conduct, knowing full well what they're doing is a useful conflation for their cause.
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The Israeli historian Yair Wallach has argued that we shouldn’t reflexively assume cynicism on behalf of Israeli Jews claiming antisemitism. He makes the point that due to the fact they are the first Jewish community in centuries/millenia to constitute a majority and wield power as Jews in the land they inhabit, they don’t generally experience the antisemitism typically associated with the diaspora on a day-to-day basis - it is something a bit alien, almost exotic to them. Rather, given their everyday experience and identity of being Jewish is inextricably wrapped up with identification with the state, attacks on that state naturally assume an antisemitic character for them in place of the more widely accepted forms we are familiar with. He does not argue that there is no cynicism or manipulation, or that we are required to accept their claims; just that this is the experience of normal run-of-mill Israeli Jews with something approximating for them an assault on their Jewish identity.
 
That_Bloke said:
You'll always have psychopathic outliers acting out because of the current circumstances, exacerbated by the absolutely horrendous way Israel is currently conducting itself, something you seem to have a hard time to stomach.

Life was less safe for Americans across in the noughties, for obvious reasons. We then had terrorist attacks in Europe. Paris. Madrid. London. Berlin.

My point is that there never was any organized crusade against Jews. Not before 10/7 and not after. There's a worldwide disapproval of Israel's appalling conduct with the exception of most of the West and especially US and Germany. You then have assholes taking matters in their "own hands".

Equalling it to a global rise of anti-semitism is a leap of logic I just won't take. Especially after closely following what happened in the last 15 months.
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I would argue that insisting on the rise of antisemitism to be organised for it to „count“ is nitpicking. Because in the end, to those who are affected by it, there’s no comfort in the idea that those acting antisemitic were lone psychos.
And I don’t think we are in a position to say anything like this yet, really. It will be years until we can actually say what the outcomes of this war have been, what organisations might have radicalised or founded because of it and what the consequences were.
And another point I think is important is, that modern terrorism for example relies less and less on organisational structures and is becoming more and more decentralised. Therefore even loners can become part of a global terrorist movement, without ever having been part of an actual group. We see this with ISIS all the time. Their terrorists often never came close to meeting anyone belonging to the group in person. They were just ideologically aligned, influenced by propaganda and carried out their work for them, willing to leave it to ISIS to claim whatever attacks for themselves.
I think if we take this development seriously, your argument of a lack of organisation matters less and less.
But what irritated me most about your posts is the confidence you seem to have in your own prognosis. No idea where you take that from. The situation right now is so fecked up with so many people paying attention, while so many paths for radicalisation exist now, that didn’t exist a few years ago, that I just don’t see how anyone could confidently say that what’s transpiring right now is something that will go away over time. It could. It could also lead to so much more misery. Especially since we entered an age of mass media we haven’t yet figured out how to regulate effectively.
 
Kaos said:
Not sure I'd agree with that. Sure some genuinely believe they are at threat, but I find that most play up the victim angle insincerely to shut down or delegitimise any dissent or protest towards Israel's conduct, knowing full well what they're doing is a useful conflation for their cause.
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JPRouve said:
It is absolutely in bad faith, generally they either know the context of their complaints or they refuse to acknowledge said context when explained.
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At one time I wanted to write something serious (before realising it's way too much work). Trying to find the parallels and differences between Zionism within Judaism, and the caste system within Hinduism, and the justifications of both.

So, part of the work I did was to watch a podcast run by anti-Zionist Jews, with many similar guests. Many of their guests grew up in pro-Zionist families or neighbourhoods or schools (or other similar networks), albeit liberal ones.

Their education in these places contained at least one of the negative stereotypes of Palestinians - ranging from "they never existed at all" to "an invented people to deny Israel its land" to "a hostile population that has been killing Jews since the 19th century." And the sentiments about Israel are what you'd expect too. As an example, a tour of the Holocaust memorials and concentration camps ends in Israel, showing that the community has fought back and survived those horrors by forming this country.
It's worth remembering that this is a liberal, sometimes secular non-religious upbringing. It's on the more tolerant end of what one could get.

So, I don't find it hard to believe that the fear and hate is true and sincere.


A year ago, I would have said the guy in the screenshot is being cynical, but I'm no longer sure.

 
2cents said:
The Israeli historian Yair Wallach has argued that we shouldn’t reflexively assume cynicism on behalf of Israeli Jews claiming antisemitism. He makes the point that due to the fact they are the first Jewish community in centuries/millenia to constitute a majority and wield power as Jews in the land they inhabit, they don’t generally experience the antisemitism typically associated with the diaspora on a day-to-day basis - it is something a bit alien, almost exotic to them. Rather, given their everyday experience and identity of being Jewish is inextricably wrapped up with identification with the state, attacks on that state naturally assume an antisemitic character for them in place of the more widely accepted forms we are familiar with. He does not argue that there is no cynicism or manipulation, or that we are required to accept their claims; just that this is the experience of normal run-of-mill Israeli Jews with something approximating for them an assault on their Jewish identity.
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I understand that and to it's basic empathy but there is an issue when the topic is discussed seriously in order to create peace and you realize that the people in question base their belief on intrinsic superiority. Unless we assume that they are genuinely dumb or have zero empathy, a large amount of people act in bad faith.
 
2cents said:
The Israeli historian Yair Wallach has argued that we shouldn’t reflexively assume cynicism on behalf of Israeli Jews claiming antisemitism. He makes the point that due to the fact they are the first Jewish community in centuries/millenia to constitute a majority and wield power as Jews in the land they inhabit, they don’t generally experience the antisemitism typically associated with the diaspora on a day-to-day basis - it is something a bit alien, almost exotic to them. Rather, given their everyday experience and identity of being Jewish is inextricably wrapped up with identification with the state, attacks on that state naturally assume an antisemitic character for them in place of the more widely accepted forms we are familiar with. He does not argue that there is no cynicism or manipulation, or that we are required to accept their claims; just that this is the experience of normal run-of-mill Israeli Jews with something approximating for them an assault on their Jewish identity.
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Contextually I was referring to the reaction of the Palestinian flag, I'd argue that when its associated with anti-semitism, that is a bad faith argument.

On the broader topic of anti-semitism, I don't share the same cynicism, nor do I have any right in determining whether Jewish people should feel at threat from the holistic implications of it.
 
JPRouve said:
Yes but that's not the really the point. Let's say it this way, there is a lot of antisemites walking the streets, I don't think that it actually increased, the difference is that a minority is more willing to be open about it. My point isn't to diminish antisemitism but the amount of incidents is negligeable compared to the amount of antisemites and these type of increases aren't actually an indication of increase in antisemitism, it's just an increase of incidents which can be linked to a number of current events topics, most of them being politics and the rise of nationalism in mainstream politics.
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The fact longstanding antisemites feel they can now be openly racist is obviously a massive problem in itself.
If they're emboldened to spread their hate and conspiracy shite across mainstream social media platforms it will convert others, particularly given the actions of the Israeli government.
 
Jippy said:
The fact longstanding antisemites feel they can now be openly racist is obviously a massive problem in itself.
If they're emboldened to spread their hate and conspiracy shite across mainstream social media platforms it will convert others, particularly given the actions of the Israeli government.
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It's definitely an issue and it's an issue that applies to all minorities. And unfortunately the political leaders are more and more adept at using current events to provoke actions among their supporters especially through social medias.
 
JPRouve said:
It's definitely an issue and it's an issue that applies to all minorities. And unfortunately the political leaders are more and more adept at using current events to provoke actions among their supporters especially through social medias.
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I think it's unlikely hate crimes have doubled and the number of bigots haven't, even if only by a bit.
Unchecked hate propaganda online and leaders channelling it, like you say.
 
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