Rio - SAF's greatest defender?

[thepolice123]

Amazing how Fergie turned the young and gifted but problematic, inconsistent and injury-prone defender into the legend that he is today, that and amidst the drug scandal when we all thought he was finished.

430 apps for us now, he will easily overtake Pally as the Center-back with the most appearances in Fergie's era.

 

[#07]

United defender responds to Mourinho comments

 

[Slevs]

Actually think Vidic is a slightly better defender. The 2 together are one of the greatest pairings of all time.

Nah, Skrtel and Agger are the best defenders in Europe and possibly of all time.

Read that again.... Skrtel and Agger...

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yeah, but Rio makes those mistakes because he's the one who builds our attacks from the back, and is more adventurous with his passing than Vida.

Rio is very overrated in his on the ball abilities. It's been quite awhile since he was any good at playing the ball out. Evans is miles ahead at it these days.

 

[Rossa]

Rio is very overrated in his on the ball abilities. It's been quite awhile since he was any good at playing the ball out. Evans is miles ahead at it these days.

He is slightly overrated, not very. There is a reason why attackers were given a job to close him down when he was on the ball. That was because his long ball distribution was very good, he was also terrific at running through the midfield. I agree that Evans is better at this now, but even he lacks that power and pace that Rio carried. Evans distribution from a CB position is nigh on world class though - lacks in other departments, unfortunately.

I criticised a poster for discussing who was the better player of A and B because he claimed B was a better player but A was a better striker (I think it was). To me, Rio is the better player of him and Vidic, but Vidic is the better defender. Overall, that makes Rio better, imo. I'm talking about their primes now, and I'll try to explain why:

1. Rio's pace was unmatched. Some of you claim that Rio struggles with quick players, but Vidic has struggled much more. There's a reason why Torres always chose Vidic's side, same goes with many quick defenders. Because although Rio has lost a couple of steps, he's still quicker than Vidic.

2. Rio's reading of the game is terrific. The fact that he can go an entire match without making a sliding tackle just shows how brilliant he reads the game. Vidic is a stronger tackler, no doubt, but sometimes I think Rio is wiser in his decision making.

3. Passing and technique is another area where Rio is the better player, imo. Vidic has improved tremendously, but he clears the ball to a throw-in or a corner much more often than Rio does, which, imo, is something that often goes unnoticed with Rio.

Vidic is a stronger tackler and a better header of the ball. At his best, I still think that Rio is the better player and because of his pace and technique was also the better defender. In terms of pure defending attributes, Vidic probably just edges it though. The most complete partnership I've seen, no doubt! (except for Skrtel and Agger of course)

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Disagree.

For me their first job is defending and vidic is better at it IMO. Rio was a great defender but I always felt some aspects about him were overrated here. I never thought he was that great on the ball. And he wasn't as complete defensively as is made out to be. Very complete yes, both of them are. But just like vidic is a bit short on pace, rio was never physical enough for my liking. He was always prone to an aggressive and strong striker giving him problems.

 

[Rossa]

Disagree.

For me their first job is defending and vidic is better at it IMO. Rio was a great defender but I always felt some aspects about him were overrated here. I never thought he was that great on the ball. And he wasn't as complete defensively as is made out to be. Very complete yes, both of them are. But just like vidic is a bit short on pace, rio was never physical enough for my liking. He was always prone to an aggressive and strong striker giving him problems.

It's nice to have a forum to disagree on

Rio used to own Drogba, and they don't come much more physical than that. He outpaced Eto'o and outpaced and outmuscled Torres, both of which gave Vidic a torrid time. I always thought Rio was great on the ball, especially at his very best.

 

[CnutOfAllCnuts]

Along with McGrath, the best centre half I have seen at United.

Vidic, Stam and Pally close, but not up there with Rio and McGrath.

 

[Rossa]

Along with McGrath, the best centre half I have seen at United.

Vidic, Stam and Pally close, but not up there with Rio and McGrath.

Agree, but I can't ever remember seeing McGrath - what was he like?

 

[CnutOfAllCnuts]

Agree, but I can't ever remember seeing McGrath - what was he like?

Complete defender, strong, quick, good in the air, good on the ball, excellent reader of the game....

I.e. a bit like Rio.

 

[thoward]

Amazing how Fergie turned the young and gifted but problematic, inconsistent and injury-prone defender into the legend that he is today, that and amidst the drug scandal when we all thought he was finished.

430 apps for us now, he will easily overtake Pally as the Center-back with the most appearances in Fergie's era.

To be fair he was really good in his time at Leeds. Helped them get to the Champions League semi finals. Really good for England at the 2002 World Cup, arguably the best centre half in tha tournament.

 

[zain]

He's been updating his FB status talking about the situation in Syria....
Is the club cool with players commentating and giving opinions on topics of political nature?
Wonder how the PR team will handle it..

 

[Diabo_Sam]

The scenes in #syria are so sad to see....what actually determines whether or not the UN step in to help the innocent people in a country??

 

[Diabo_Sam]

Who will pay the bill for a start..

 

[Isotope]

Along with McGrath, the best centre half I have seen at United.

Vidic, Stam and Pally close, but not up there with Rio and McGrath.

Set aside the longevity, Stam shade it over Rio a bit for me. He was like a giant tower centerback that felt like no one could pass him. Stam was like Vidic with pace.

 

[Bojan11]

I love how people keep mentioning the one bad game Vidic had against Torres.


Yet forget the match where he just ran past Ferdinand in 2009 for Liverpool even though Ferdinand was grabbing him too. Also lets not forget the Bellamy moment. Ferdinand has also trouble dealing with pacy players too.

 

[Alock1]

Every defender has had bad games. Its ridiculous that people ever refer back to some odd isolated match.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I love how people keep mentioning the one bad game Vidic had against Torres.


Yet forget the match where he just ran past Ferdinand in 2009 for Liverpool even though Ferdinand was grabbing him too. Also lets not forget the Bellamy moment. Ferdinand has also trouble dealing with pacy players too.

And more trouble with physically imposing strikers than vidic ever had.

Don't get me wrong, rio was a fantastic defense at his best. But this idea that he was the complete defense who had no weaknesses is absolute nonsense. Some here act as if he was this god of defender that was perfect in every way. He, like our other top players over the years had his weaknesses. In fact, our defence only really became great for a prolonged period when vidic came and the two of them made up for each other's weaknesses.

 

[Dargonk]

He is definitely up there if not the best under SAF. Though, I'm finding it hard to separate him from Vidic who is a beast. Vidic is probable the best pure defender, but then Rio has much more to his game when he gets the ball at this feet compared to Vidic, which likely pushes him above.

 

[Cling Bak]

What was that crazy stat about Rio and not making fouls (or picking up yellow cards) in an entire season or something like that ?

He didn't get a booking for England until his 50th cap.

It was also March (I forget which season, quite recent) when he made his first foul. He'd been playing lots, too.

Paul Merson mentioned a story on Fantasy Football Club last night that Eyal Berkovic complained to Redknapp at West Ham: "Boss, what is the point in us practicing one v one's? Nobody ever gets past Rio."

 

[Cling Bak]

I love how people keep mentioning the one bad game Vidic had against Torres.


Yet forget the match where he just ran past Ferdinand in 2009 for Liverpool even though Ferdinand was grabbing him too. Also lets not forget the Bellamy moment. Ferdinand has also trouble dealing with pacy players too.

I would definitely not describe Ferdinand as "having trouble dealing with pacy players". You've mentioned two moments in a 15 year career, but firstly, he used to be lightning quick himself. Watching him in Japorea keep up with Brazil's Ronaldo was a sight. But since losing a yard, he's adapted. Every defender has their moments, but he doesn't struggle against anybody.

 

[Steven Seagull]

“The day after a game I would waddle into the club like a duck, bent over like an old hunchback,” said Rio. “I would be hobbling around, unable to train for four or five days. I would be OK to play the next game, but I must have missed 60-70% of training. If I’m honest, I didn’t make it clear to the gaffer and the club physios that my injury was that serious. I just had an incredible desire to play football and had never had to deal with an injury of this scale before. But I was summoned into the manager’s office after the Liverpool defeat. He told me: ‘Last season, Torres would not have scored that goal against you’. As soon as he said that, you sit up and take notice. When the manager tells you something like that it hits home. So we made a decision to rest it completely before I could return to the team.”

Rio didn't have a problem with pacey players when he was fit. It's a bit weird to suggest that. Pre-2010 he was extremely quick but I don't think you can knock someone with a bad back at 31 for losing some pace.

 

[kouroux]

He didn't get a booking for England until his 50th cap.

It was also March (I forget which season, quite recent) when he made his first foul. He'd been playing lots, too.

Paul Merson mentioned a story on Fantasy Football Club last night that Eyal Berkovic complained to Redknapp at West Ham: "Boss, what is the point in us practicing one v one's? Nobody ever gets past Rio."

It's amazing how him and Vidic were just the perfect pairing. I personally preferred Rio's style, just I loved watching Nesta at his prime. It's a shame these great players still carried injuries, how amazing would they have been ?

 

[Bojan11]

I would definitely not describe Ferdinand as "having trouble dealing with pacy players". You've mentioned two moments in a 15 year career, but firstly, he used to be lightning quick himself. Watching him in Japorea keep up with Brazil's Ronaldo was a sight. But since losing a yard, he's adapted. Every defender has their moments, but he doesn't struggle against anybody.

I've seen him turned quite a few times by pacey wingers, when covering for the right back. Even last week Dyer skinned him.

Vidic didn't rely on his pace to make him a great defender. People also give the same example about Vidic. Eto and Torres. When for the Torres goal in the 4-1, Vidic misread the flight of the ball.

Fact is look at Ferdinands early years. He struggled with Brown or Silvestre. Where as I think you could put anyone besides Vidic and our defence would be solid. Lets not forget Vidic in 08/09 was immense in that cleansheet run. It's ashame people only seem to remember the Liverpool or Barca game. If we didn't have Vidic that season then we would have not won the league. He was more important than Ronaldo that season, who only managed 18 league goals and think of all the 1-0 victories, we got.

I'm also pretty sure if Vidic was fit for the whole 11/12 season and Rio was missing, we would have won the league. That's why I think Vidic was the better player. Not saying Rio was bad. But would put him bottom of the list between him, Stam and Vidic.

 

[Rossa]

Rio didn't have a problem with pacey players when he was fit. It's a bit weird to suggest that. Pre-2010 he was extremely quick but I don't think you can knock someone with a bad back at 31 for losing some pace.

This is spot on. Rio was extremely quick in his younger years - he not only kept up with Torres, but outpaced him as did he Eto'o, who was labelled by many as the fastest player in Europe at that time. Before his injuries he NEVER struggled with fast players, nor did he really struggle with strong players either. I remember him dealing with Drogba very well, and he particularly dealt with fast yet large players like Torres well.

The fact that a lightning quick Dyer can cause problems for Rio today should come as no surprise, but most CBs would struggle in those situations. Distin is a CB who has managed to maintain his pace much better than Rio, but pre-injury, Rio really was amazing. He never did have Vidic's aerial presence though, and I do think that Vidic's no-nonsense policy makes him better in the box at winning duels and clearing balls, much like Terry also edged Rio in that respect.

Overall, I don't think Rio ever was a defending-God, but he is ultimately the best CB I've witnessed because of his combined attributes. He reads the game increadibly well, and he is (at least was) much better than Vidic one on one - I always felt that Vidic struggles a bit if he is left exposed one on one on the wing for instance, whereas Rio was always harder to dribble past (I do remember Henry dribbling him till he fell on his bum though).

 

[Brwned]

I'd say it's telling that the two posters in here that saw us for 25+ years have Rio and McGrath as the top two with Vidic not even inthe question.

Rio wasn't the perfect defender but at his peak there were no obvious weaknesses. The same just isn't true of Vidic. I can sort of understand preferring that type of defender but thinking he was better? Hmm.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Rio is the one for me.

 

[vuc]

I've seen him turned quite a few times by pacey wingers, when covering for the right back. Even last week Dyer skinned him.

Vidic didn't rely on his pace to make him a great defender. People also give the same example about Vidic. Eto and Torres. When for the Torres goal in the 4-1, Vidic misread the flight of the ball.

Fact is look at Ferdinands early years. He struggled with Brown or Silvestre. Where as I think you could put anyone besides Vidic and our defence would be solid. Lets not forget Vidic in 08/09 was immense in that cleansheet run. It's ashame people only seem to remember the Liverpool or Barca game. If we didn't have Vidic that season then we would have not won the league. He was more important than Ronaldo that season, who only managed 18 league goals and think of all the 1-0 victories, we got.

I'm also pretty sure if Vidic was fit for the whole 11/12 season and Rio was missing, we would have won the league. That's why I think Vidic was the better player. Not saying Rio was bad. But would put him bottom of the list between him, Stam and Vidic.

Some good points here.

Rio may look the better defender, because he does things clean and looks good on the ball (used to, not so much these days) but it's Vidic that does all the donkey work. When it's backs to the wall defending Vidic is the one you want in the team not Rio. And yeah, Vidic may get turned more easier than Ferdinand and not have that recovery pace that he has, but it's not like Rio never got turned either.

This video is before Vidic played alongside Rio.



Some shit examples on here, because some of the play has nothing to do with Rio but you can clearly see a number of sloppy defensive mistakes by Rio. When Vidic came, he made Rio look better than he is. I have no doubt of this. Vidic made Milan Dudic look good, he made Serbia's NT in the 2006 WCQ cycle look good. We conceded one goal in the whole of the qualifying, and he decimated the whole Spanish forward line. Not just Torres, all of them.

I find that so many people on here are quick to put Rio on another level to Vidic when even if he is better it wouldn't be by much at all. That's been my biggest gripe with the Rio vs Vidic debate. Vidic is an unbelievable defender, so for Rio to be on another level than him would have to make him a God which isn't true.

 

[Brwned]

In 10 years' time we'll be talking about whether our current backs-to-the-wall goliath of a defender was better than Vidic as is happening now with Stam (with the current defender usually winning), we'll be lucky to find a defender comparable to Rio in the next 20 years. Vidic just ain't all that. He's a slightly better John Terry who happened to be the best defender around when there was no-one like Nesta at his peak to highlight the difference in class.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Great defences always come with a complimentary CB partnership, Rio and Vidic compliment each other perfectly. Vidic is more than a backs-to-the-wall defender though, his positioning is good but he does rely on his strength. Rio's the best I've seen at United, just quality. I thought he was absolutely impeccable against Ronaldo at the Bernabeu.

 

[vuc]

In 10 years' time we'll be talking about whether our current backs-to-the-wall goliath of a defender was better than Vidic as is happening now with Stam (with the current defender usually winning), we'll be lucky to find a defender comparable to Rio in the next 20 years. Vidic just ain't all that. He's a slightly better John Terry who happened to be the best defender around when there was no-one like Nesta at his peak to highlight the difference in class.

Surprised to see this coming from you.

74% - Of all players to play 150+ Premier League games, Nemanja Vidic has the best win percentage (P184 W136).

Nemanja Vidic averages 2.37 points per game in the PL - more than any other player in the history of the PL with over 100 appearances.

Why is Rio not captain of the club? Why, even after missing half of the season last year is Vidic still captain?

 

[Buchan]

Why is Rio not captain of the club? Why, even after missing half of the season last year is Vidic still captain?

The captaincy was taken from Rio when his fitness issues were affecting his availability. Absolutely nothing at all to do with his footballing ability or leadership skills.

Besides, we have multiple players capable of assuming the captaincy role at any one time. Giggs, Vidic, Ferdinand, Evra etc. are all usually in the match-day squad and have all assumed the captaincy role on a regular basis. I don't see what the issue is to be honest.

 

[Brwned]

For the same reason Bruce was captain instead of Pallister. Better leader, sure. Better defender? Come on.

 

[vuc]

Yeah, but how does Vidic even after 2 seasons of sustained injury periods still retain the captaincy?

 

[Jippy]

Surprised to see this coming from you.

74% - Of all players to play 150+ Premier League games, Nemanja Vidic has the best win percentage (P184 W136).

Nemanja Vidic averages 2.37 points per game in the PL - more than any other player in the history of the PL with over 100 appearances.

Why is Rio not captain of the club? Why, even after missing half of the season last year is Vidic still captain?

Where is that stat on Vidic from?

 

[kouroux]

Surprised to see this coming from you.

74% - Of all players to play 150+ Premier League games, Nemanja Vidic has the best win percentage (P184 W136).

Nemanja Vidic averages 2.37 points per game in the PL - more than any other player in the history of the PL with over 100 appearances.

Why is Rio not captain of the club? Why, even after missing half of the season last year is Vidic still captain?

I can understand loving Vidic but this is plain stupid IMO. Evra captains the team even when Ferdinand is there, what kinda conclusion do you make of that then ?

 

[Bestie07]

Surprised to see this coming from you.

74% - Of all players to play 150+ Premier League games, Nemanja Vidic has the best win percentage (P184 W136).

Nemanja Vidic averages 2.37 points per game in the PL - more than any other player in the history of the PL with over 100 appearances.

Why is Rio not captain of the club? Why, even after missing half of the season last year is Vidic still captain?

Didn't Vidic sign his last contract on the condition that he was to be made the club captain?

 

[vuc]

Where is that stat on Vidic from?

OPTA Joe.

 

[vuc]

I can understand loving Vidic but this is plain stupid IMO. Evra captains the team even when Ferdinand is there, what kinda conclusion do you make of that then ?

True. Not the best argument.

 

[Jippy]

OPTA Joe.

Just trying to find it but he pumps out so much stuff. Don't suppose you have a link?