Pereira?
Right Winger... Who do we go for?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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With very little end product in that mix, and no flair, but then if Mourinho didn't want to invite pressure and play on the backfoot instead of playing for posession this wouldn't be an issue, but he relies too much on the counter because it's less risk and that is why we struggle against the smaller team who cede possession to us, and lets be real, the tracking back is about his obsession with grind and workate over flair and invention, just not a fit with how United play.
Our home form was good last year so teams ceding possession to us really isn’t a problem. Like I said, its not just about tracking back, its picking up positions and being organised so we can transition more effectively.
The points we dropped last season were against the bottom half sides where we had to be creative with limited space and take charge of the game, you need more than a counter attack when you are a top side, and on top of that it's fine being good in transtion but the lack of end product is an issue, we need flair and invention added to this team, we rely way too much on Pogba for vision and adding two genric wingers isn't the answer, more craft is needed, we lack a player like De Bruyne, Eriksen, Silva, Coutinho, Isco etc....However if we just intend to play a basic style then coach Lingard and Rashford to be better counter attackers, they have the pace and ability to carry the ball, they just need some coaching and time to master it.
No.Like Perisic?
Whenever teams sat back against us, it didn’t really work, that’s why our home form was so good...
When teams pressed us, we had a problem.
Why do we need another LB when Young will play 50 games next season and Shaw will release a news every 6 months about how he's in the best shape of his life?
We had a problem with both, Newcastle, Brighton and West Brom didn't beat us due to the press, they caught us with a goal and we failed to score due to our lack of creativity and attacking coaching in the final 3rd. We struggle when teams pack tight just as much as we do when teams press.
It's really not, it's a horrible formation.
Chelsea got away with three at the back because they played a proper front three with Hazard and Willian providing width in addition to their fullbacks. We don't have that luxury.
Newcastle and Brighton was away and they did not just sit back. West Brom was the freak result at home when you look at the full season.
There's no such thing as a horrible formation, only bad execution of a formation. you don't need width in your front 3, lots of teams play 4-3-3 and don't get width from there, they get it from the fullbacks..
We have a number of attacking players who are much better centrally and would thrive in the system, our only issue in playing it is the lack of a top #10 and a LWB, the #10 is hard to get for now but Pogba and Lingard behind Sanchez and Lukaku is decent for this season, and Sandro gives us the LWB we need, it's certainly better than the options at RW who range from two generic workhorses to an injury prone pipedream, if we could get Mbappe or Dembele or even Pulisic I might feel different, but we can't.
It doesn't matter when or where the game took place, it was the same story, we had the bulk of possession and couldn't get through because we lack cohesion in attack due to the coaching and a lack of guile due to the personnel.
Brighton and Newcastle were not sitting back though, they pressed us. If you look at our home games where teams did sit back against us, we have improved a lot since Mourinho’s first season. That’s facts. You are scrambling.
I'm not scrambling, this is a messageboard about football, not a national debate, the fact is we lost 9 points to 3 shite teams because we couldn't break them down for the reasons I've stated and you just keep pretending it didn't happen and that we only struggle with teams that press. The other fact is our results vs the top 6 were good because they are all good possession teams who take the game on and allowed Mourinho to sit back and use the counter which he has openly admitted favouring because he wants to avoid taking risks. I know the results improved overall last season, I never said otherwise, but the football was cut your eyes out horrible, and I am sure if we allowed ourselves to become fully Mourinhoized then you'd be happy but it's not the answer IMO, becoming this grafting, counter machine with two dog soldier wingers and a team devoid of flair isn't the way to go against the changing tide in the game, and we'd still struggle with the teams that pack in just as we did last season because we'd still lack flair and invention in the final 3rd, be it tactically or due to the players we have.
Pulisic would be awesome but if Ousmane went for €145 million then Dortmund will want something similar for Pulisic and Ed won't sanction that unless Martial was shipped out for big money. He could do with another year at Dortmund too to develop.
Bale obviously would be Jose's first choice but he looks like he's staying as of now so I'm not sure his other possible choices in Rebic, Willian, and Perisic will happen for one reason or another. Right now it's looking like Martial, Lingard and Rashford battling for that RW slot this season and all of them are more than good enough to fill that role.
Bale obviously would be Jose's first choice but he looks like he's staying as of now so I'm not sure his other possible choices in Rebic, Willian, and Perisic will happen for one reason or another. Right now it's looking like Martial, Lingard and Rashford battling for that RW slot this season and all of them are more than good enough to fill that role.
It’s about creating a team which is organised and can spring out with pace and precision. It is exciting in full flow. Stop calling players like Willian 'dog soldiers' as well. He DOES have flair, I dont know what player you have been watching. You are attaching your own negative thoughts to everything like it is reality. You did this before the start of last season as well.
When teams came to Old Trafford and sat back, we managed to break them down. The only one where we didn’t West Brom at the end of the season.
No it isn't and I'll keep calling him that because it's what he is, I also wasn't negative when Mourinho first came here, but between his toxic thundercnut personality, throwing our young players under the bus and the garbage football he's served up your damn right I'm negative since last season and with very good reason, so if you want us to dive deeper into the Mourinho Rabbit hole and let him make a team in his image, that's cool, I and many other United fans don't want that, thus the divide in the fanbase we currently have.
You keep going on about the home record, breaking teams down away is equally important and it was where we slipped up due to the reasons I stated.
If 352 is the answer. Was the question name a formation that doesn’t suit the current squad which the last two managers tried, didn’t work that well and then abandoned?
Teams we played away from home did not sit back, which is my point...
You seem a little mad, so I’ll just leave it here.
Nothing has worked well for us, look at last season, we had mixed results in all, but buying Sandro and letting our attackers play in the roles they favour is preferable to signing Willian and trying to use 4-3-3.
Yes they did, they were defensively set up, we had the bulk of possession, we failed to break them down, talk about scrambling, it's like you are being obtuse for the sake of it, I said we struggled with the press and packed in teams, yet for some reason you want to claim it's only one because you want to fit it to your narrative of building a counter attacking team.
I'm not mad at you, and I'm not angry in the posts per se, but I fecking loathe Mourinho and the direction we are going in, so yes, I admit I'm a not as chill as if we were say talking about a World Cup game a couple of weeks ago.
Don’t really get how 3-5-2 or whatever is the solution - Valencia is generally useless going forward and we want to make him our only outlet on the right side of the pitch?
Sorry mate, couldn't resist pulling your leg a bit.
I think that Zaha could be a good option for Mourinho who seems to be looking for a straight-forward, quick-in-transitioning winger in the mould of Perisic and Willian.
From what I've seen Zaha has come on leaps and bounds in the last two seasons with Palace where he's finally matured and become more of a leader.
He lacks some of the versatility of specifically Perisic, but he's growing equally influencial and has a bit more creativity about him. The two biggest factors for going for Zaha over the others are;
1. Availability/Value for money- Palace won't be able to extort us, like Inter have or Chelsea could, considering the clauses we have in place for him.
2. Age- Just entering his prime at 25/26
3. Ability- Despite being younger he's definitely not far off the other two, if at all. Grown alot more consistent and dependable over the last two seasons and takes responsibility both in attack AND defence.
True but we looked particularly disjointed and unable to control games with 352, which is why i imagine Mourinho gave up on it.
Also we could sign Sandro and a right winger and still let all our attacking players play the roles they are effective in. Absolutely no reason Martial, Sanchez or Rashford can't all play well off the left in a 433. The only one who really loses out in a 433 is Lingard, but against the weaker sides at home we can switch to a 4231 to accommodate him centrally if we want to.
If Woodward is pulling for the business angle, I'm really surprised we don't hear more about Pulisic. He immediately makes United the team to follow for an entire generation of American youngsters.
And it's not like the kid isn't half decent either..
And it's not like the kid isn't half decent either..
Only if he is available for 80 million euros or less. Extremely overrated player, who isn’t worth the 120 million euros Barcelona payed for him. On his best season managed mere 8 goals in all competitions with Dortmund, is coming from an injury, and didn’t do anything remarkable at the WC. I really don’t see the fuss about this guy.
I’ll prefer an older RW while Chong is ready to take the position.
Would anyone take a gamble on Chiesa or Gelson Martins both cheaper options but have bags of potential
A crazy thought but... Pogba looked awesome on the left wing last season when he played out there before Jose had no choice but to bring him back central as we had absolutely nothing in the center to help Matic.
Does Pogba have the attributes to thrive on either wing consistently if he was asked to play there? If Milinkovic-Savic or Kovacic were gettable and Jose decided he was fed up looking for the perfect RW such as Bale then could Sanchez and Pogba on the wide positions interchanging ever be a realistic option?
Does Pogba have the attributes to thrive on either wing consistently if he was asked to play there? If Milinkovic-Savic or Kovacic were gettable and Jose decided he was fed up looking for the perfect RW such as Bale then could Sanchez and Pogba on the wide positions interchanging ever be a realistic option?
The thing is none of them really want to play off the left, Sanchez best goal scoring season for Arsenal was central and he plays there for Chile as well, and Rashford is a striker. There is also very little in the way of options for the RW, Bale is the only one of the required quality but is an injury risk and also a pipedream. Getting a top LB should be a priority regardless of system, I just feel we'd get more out of the attackers we have in a wingback system that allowed them to operate as a central 3, and we need to get more out of them as there are no outstanding RW options that are available for us this summer.
Coming off the back of a very average season and not really pushing on. I don’t see United having much interest in him. He’s a very good talent, but very much a work in progress.
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Can’t believe this hasn’t been sorted seeing as it looks as though we may keep our left back as they are. For me those were our two most glaring weak points despite young doing admirably and improving them both would balance the team nicely. Hopefully something being worked on below the radar
We aren't going to buy a right winger and we aren't linked with any. I genuinely think it's because we'll go into the season playing a 4-3-1-2 formation. Of course, when this doesn't work out we'll no doubt revert to 4-3-3 and again rely on Mata and Lingard to do provide no width and constantly cut inside. Hey ho.
Wouldn't mind it if the club took a chance on Thuavin now that Mahrez has gone to City.
That's certainly the footballing side of it. So agreed, I doubt Jose has him on his list. As an American, I'd love to see him progress to the point of actually earning a spot with Europe's elite. Then again, Dortmund is a great team. Really I just don't want him at Liverpool
Can't say i agree mate, i see Sanchez and Rashfords best position as left of a front 3. Martial has blew hot and cold there as well as up front, but he can at least play both positions. For me the equal priorities are RW and LB.
Switching to a 352 isn't going to help us when we don't have the wingbacks or central defenders for it. Valencia is no where near productive enough to be effective as a wingback and main creative force on the right, same with Young on the left. Our centre backs are all too injury prone to ever rely on three of them being fit at the same time, our best and most reliable CB Smalling isn't exactly suited to a system where the defenders are expected to bring the ball out of defence step into midfield and contribute to the attack.
I just don't see it happening, i don't think Mourinho likes the system at all. His whole defensive philosophy is built around a back 4 anyway.
Sanchez has played well off the left over his career but has became the bigger goal threat central and that was where he was thriving for club and country when we bought him, as for Rashford, he lacks the skill to play wide IMO, he just runs into dead ends on the wing, where as his movement centrally is very good. Martial is the best of the bunch there but equally happy playing centrally, I think any of the 3 would improve playing off Lukaku in a partnership, which Lukaku also likes, rather than wide of him.
Valencia is unproductive in any formation, but we have bought Dalot to blood in there so we are looking forwards which I can't take issue with, Young is poor but that is why getting Alex Sandro is important. It comes down to who we can get for me, if we could get Mbappe or Bale or Asensio or Dembele or even Pulisic then sure, try 4-3-3, but the RW options are crap this summer, so I'd rather use a system that gets more from Lingard than bench him and drop £60M on someone like Willian or Rebic.
As for the CB's, Bailly, Rojo, Lindelof and the new one we are targetting are enough to bring the ball out, you can afford the central CB to be a pure stopper in the formation.
If we don't sign a RW... Would you prefer to try a 352 formation or a 4312 (considering we have a lot of midfielders)?
I will cry manly tears of happiness if Sanchez starts RW tonight.
I can't see us getting the RW to solve our imbalance this window, and I don't like trying to shoe horn Sanchez/Martial/Lukaku/Rashford etc into positions that don't suit them.
So let's accept we won't sign one and play 3-5-2 ?
It's true we don't have good enough wing-backs but Sandro is gettable, and I would chase up Thomas Meunière for the right side, surely we could perm 3 from Jones-Smalling-Rojo-Linderlöf-Bailley-TFM-Tuanzebe even Matic or McTomminay to form a solid 3 man defence, if not we buy players who can.
DDG
Bailley Linderlöf New CB
Meunière Fred Matic Pogba Sandro
Lukaku Martial
Romero
Jones Smalling Rojo
Dalot Lingard Herrera Fellaini Shaw
Rashford Sanchez
So let's accept we won't sign one and play 3-5-2 ?
It's true we don't have good enough wing-backs but Sandro is gettable, and I would chase up Thomas Meunière for the right side, surely we could perm 3 from Jones-Smalling-Rojo-Linderlöf-Bailley-TFM-Tuanzebe even Matic or McTomminay to form a solid 3 man defence, if not we buy players who can.
DDG
Bailley Linderlöf New CB
Meunière Fred Matic Pogba Sandro
Lukaku Martial
Romero
Jones Smalling Rojo
Dalot Lingard Herrera Fellaini Shaw
Rashford Sanchez
Depends on if we manage to bring in another CB this window, I think the 3-5-2 would be better as we lack a proper #10 for the diamond.
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