Mahrez played for Leicester, who won PL by playing deep and attacking with fast breaks. Him dropping deep is nothing new. Just that he won't be running around like a Duracell bunny like Park did.
Right Winger... Who do we go for?
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Mahrez played for Leicester, who won PL by playing deep and attacking with fast breaks. Him dropping deep is nothing new. Just that he won't be running around like a Duracell bunny like Park did.
My dream signing on RW - Griezmann
Mourinho`s dream signing on RW - Willian
My realistic RW signing wich Mournho will not sign - Mahrez
Mourinho`s dream signing on RW - Willian
My realistic RW signing wich Mournho will not sign - Mahrez
Bolded part is the key and I completely agree that that 'play in order that others may shine' is what Jose probably wanted him for. A player who while 'limted' in other areas excelled in one, leading towards the whole being greater than the sum of its parts and all that. Of course Perisic himself would have shone with all those assists had all turned out 'according to plan'. And many other posters were for the signing for those reasons as well and they've all expressed their frustrations at it not going through.
That player that keeps things ticking over when others droop their heads because they missed a chance or two (looking at you LVG). Don't worry, I'll make you another chance. Come on, let's go.
Actually, when you spell it out like you have, maybe Jose presented his Perisic case like me, briefly, 'Surely I don't have to spell it out for them?' when he should have presented it like you and then Woody/Glazers would have been like, 'Well when you put it that way...'
All the more argument for a DOF who would have immediately gotten what he was on about re Perisic maybe.
Griezmann isn’t a right winger. If we bought him as a winger, we’d just add more problems and solve nothing.
Injuries haven't helped for sure but can you say he's become better as a player ? A better defender ?
He was one of the worlds best cb at Dortmund, he is one of the worlds best cb now.
Where do people get this idea that 4 at the back systems are old/outdated and 3 at the back formations are some new cutting edge modern invention?
3 at the back formations were being used over 100 years ago. There are no new formations pretty much every formation imaginable has been tried over the years to varying degrees of success. 352 is popular now just as it was in the mid 90's, but i seriously doubt there will ever be a time in football when 4231/433 or variations of it won't be a viable formation for any team to use and be successful with. City aren't exactly doing badly this season playing 4 at the back, or the last 20 winners of the Champions League. You have to go back to 1997 to find the last time a team won the Champions League playing 352 when Dortmund won it.
There isn't a team leading any of europes top leagues who doesn't use a back 4. Even Juventus seem to have switched back to a back 4 every time i've seen them this season.
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Couldn't agree more about the DOF. For now the board seems content with Woodward handling the manager's demands while, at the same time, the manager has absolute authority over the footballing aspect of the club. It's a bizarre relationship and IMO both sides may have problems communicating their ideas/needs/demands to each other.
I also agree that we're all using hypothetical scenarios here. Nobody knows how Perisic would have adapted to the PL and United and if everything would have gone, as you say, according to plan. But it's starting to become clear why he wanted Perisic and also why he preferred Morata as his main man. And i think he's equally pissed about Morata right now because, when you already have Rashford and Martial, signing a limited forward like Romelu creates lots of needs for the other two places in his favourite 4231 in terms of movement and creativity. Needs that Lingard, Miki and Mata can't fill, apparently. And in a sense, he put himself in a tough spot because he had worked with both Miki and Mata for a whole season. He should have expected something like what we're witnessing now.
Basically my point, he hasn't really improved that much. Lewandowski you can see the improvement with better teammates. There aren't many Dortmund players who succeed away from there anyway.
The problem is there aren't may experienced options worth getting, players like Willian and Mahrez aren't really good enough at the level City are setting, and Bale is a crock. It's likely on the flanks we are going to go younger while going experienced through the middle.
I haven't seen much of him, so can anybody shed light on why we aren't linked with Thomas lemar though he seems to be interesting lots of clubs? Winger that plays both sides. Not good enough? Overpriced? Anybody any knowledge
We were actually linked to him at the end of last window when we couldn't get Perisic iirc.
Anyway, although he's capable of playing there, I wouldn't class him as a winger.
He's more of an attacking midfielder in the Mata, Coutinho, Iniesta mould - position wise - capable of playing across the AM positions.
He played as a left wide midfielder in a 442 last season, but vis-a-vis Perisic and Sane etc, Lemar was tasked with coming inside to playmake rather holding the width - B. Silva did the same from the right.
Technically good and a superb crosser of the ball, he's got a lot of the qualities you need from a top winger, but there are doubts he has enough pace needed to consistently play as a winger in a league as pacy as the EPL.
This season, he's played a few games(4) as the No.10 including their last game with the others coming through the left wing and is hardly pulling up trees. He has 2 goals and 4assists in 16games to be precise.
Futhermore, he's rated at 90m if the media rumours are to be believed, but I wouldn't pay that price for him - rather something close to 50m at a max.
He's more of a left sided player too and I think we need a right winger more right now which might probably be the reason we are not being linked to him anymore.
Good player, but as @Mcking pointed out - not the most traditional winger in terms of profile and probably not a great fit for United in terms of what we need unless we change the way we play (like putting Lemar on the left and Martial up front, or Lemar at 10 instead of the right wing). Monaco typically play a rather diverse system under Jardim - like 4222/442 last season where Lemar and Bernardo were the attacking midfielders behind Mbappe and Falcao moving into wider positions, or even the pseudo 433 where one wide attacking midfielder drops into midfield while the other presses forward:
Griezmann can play LW/CAM/RW/ST .
The guy is world class, finds space like nobody else in world football.
He is a good finisher, sets up others for goals,teamplayer etc.
He would walk into our team in any position that is mentioned.
In the summer we were after Perisic wich i think is a signal that Mourinho wanted to try 5-3-2 and Griezmann would probably be that second "striker" but play more like a false 9 behind Lukaku.
He still isnt a winger. We could play Smalling there, but he isnt a winger either. Martial and Rashford are not wingers, even if they play on the left wing. Griezmann would be wasted on the wing, since his strengths are not the strengths of a typical winger and he doesn't play like a winger even if you put him on the right wing
Good player, but as @Mcking pointed out - not the most traditional winger in terms of profile and probably not a great fit for United in terms of what we need unless we change the way we play (like putting Lemar on the left and Martial up front, or Lemar at 10 instead of the right wing). Monaco typically play a rather diverse system under Jardim - like 4222/442 last season where Lemar and Bernardo were the attacking midfielders behind Mbappe and Falcao moving into wider positions, or even the pseudo 433 where one wide attacking midfielder drops into midfield while the other presses forward:
Thank you both
Mahrez stands out for me for a RW. We are pretty desperate out here, we cant keep playing Mata/Miki/Lingard/Rashford here = none of these are RW's.
I caught some of the Bayern/Dortmund cup game yesterday and Pulisic looked very good. Natural winger, good on the ball, picked his passes well on times, but most impressive was his ability to take the ball in tight areas. He's a special talent for sure
I caught some of the Bayern/Dortmund cup game yesterday and Pulisic looked very good. Natural winger, good on the ball, picked his passes well on times, but most impressive was his ability to take the ball in tight areas. He's a special talent for sure
I don't know if you are on the wind-up, but this post comes across as one you would see from a fanboy. He's capable of playing as a winger, but that is as good as it gets, capable.
His perfomances as a winger hardly justifies paying 90m for him when there are better wingers than him out there available for less.
His peak was at the Euros playing off Giroud; he was piss poor playing as a right winger forcing Deschamps to change to 4231 to accomodate him.
I could hardly argue his class nor his finishing and selflessness, but I'm struggling to understand why you think he would just walk into any position and play like peak Griezmann.
Our transfer policy has been scattergun for the last few years and the sooner we start signing the right players, the better.
We don't have to sign big names just for the sake of it, we should sign players that would suit us.
Yeah it's definitely more like 532 whenever we play it as opposed to 352. And Mourinho has tried it and we use it but only against teams who play 3 at the back. Thats the extent to which we were only ever going to use it, Mourinho said that in the summer. We were never going to switch formation permanently, the way Mourinho sets up his teams defensively and always has done is based on a back four.
I'm not exactly sure if this is what he had in mind, but for me Greizmann in an "attacker". He's not a classic #9, and struggled up front on his own this season. He's not a traditional winger either.
These positions are far less relevant in a counterattacking scenario though, they relate far more to where he would defend from when we don't have the ball than they would if we were pressing a team back. If we are attacking with possession and pressure, then our fullbacks will still likely provide most of the width. Counterattacking, Greizmann is fantastic at linking play, finding space, creating for others, and finishing a chance. Add into that his ability to press, and his connection with Pogba, and we are on to a winner.
I agree. Mahrez is someone whose gettable at this point in time. If we can get Mahrez and Ozil this summer, we would have made adequate improvements to compete in the Champions League. Mahrez, I feel needs to come in. The guy is under-rated. He can produce moments of magic and I just get the feeling that he would work well with Lukaku.
Mahrez Ozil Martial
Lukaku
You understate the effect of player positions even in a counterattacking team.
You didn't talk about the difference Griezmann's position will make when we have the ball in the final third. We dominate possession more often, rather than counterattack in most games btw.
Pulisic. He ‘s the one I think United should pay all cost to get. Forget Griezmann or Bale. We doesn’t need them as Pulisic provides pace and crosses on right wing. That’s what United and Lukaku needs.
Buying a £90m player but not playing him on his best position? This is ridiculous. He is not Messi, if he come to United and he needs to be on Messi role to provides crosses and passes to our striker. These are not his best technique.
I would rather buy a right winger specialist than buying a “dream siging” but play him out of position.
I don't think I underestimate the effect of player positions at all, and it shouldn't be overestimated. It's possible to counterattack from the final third if your team pressing game is good enough, so my comments on how he would contribute to counterattacks don't negate how he could contribute when we have the ball. Greizmann is not a static player, and his ability to play between lines and find useful pockets of space, linking play, disrupts opposition defenses. You don't want your attackers to be too predictable. Personally, I believe that we could do with a wide player who is capable and comfortable at beating a man on the outside and putting in a good cross, without having to cut inside. I think that would add considerably to our game. That being said, I wouldn't see that player as an alternative to, but rather a complement to Griezmann.
If we were to sign say, Sandro. We could for example play:
De Gea
Bailey, Smalling, Rojo
Valencia, Matic, Pogba, Sandro
Griezmann Lukaku Martial
That would give us the option of Griezmann dropping back to a #10 role, with Martial pushing forward up beside Lukaku. Or Martial can drift wide, creating an overload with the wingback, as Greizmann joins Lukaku in the box. Lukaku would be the focal point (something both Martial and Greizmann thrive alongside), and there would be support coming from everywhere with the wingbacks, inside forwards, and Pogba probably joining the attack too.
Mahrez I believe is a better option than Malcom at right wing, he's proved that he can do it in the PL for a sustained period now and i don't think he would play worse with better players around him. Malcom has shown that he's a talent in the French league, the same league that Florian Thauvin won young player of the year playing at right wing, Newcastle decided to spend big on the young kid, and we all know how that ended. Another example is Lazar Markovic Liverpool spent big money to get him from Benfica he was 19/20yo and absolutely killing it in the Portuguese league that season, fast forward 6 months the kid was basically never seen again in a Liverpool shirt.
First time i really paid attention to Malcom was in the 2015 U20 world cup final between Serbia and Brazil. Now there was another right winger playing that day and his name was Andrija Zivkovic he was the best player that day along with SMS, Zivkovic ended up assisting the winning goal for Serbia also. I was actually more impressed by Jesus and our boy Pereira who came of the bench to score for Brazil than i was by Malcom.
If we signed Mahrez or heck even Perisic id be happy to take a punt on Malcom cause at least i know he has time to develop and adjust to the PL and maybe after a season or two he could develop into the main man. Also lets not forget we don't have one bonafide world class player in our attacking 3rd at the moment unlike all our other PL rivals so it would just be a lot more difficult for a young kid to succeed when the players around him often have up and down games.
A question I'll ask everyone is do we really need a pure RW to play on the right ? i know everyone is in love with what Sterling and Salah are doing at the moment but their teams set up different to us. Tottenham for example often play a similar 4-2-3-1, Erickson often pops up on the right as does Dele and Son and none of them are pure right wingers.
End of the day if we really believe there's no experienced options worth getting as a pure right winger i think we can still bring in a star attacking player to do a job on the right, at least i'd take that risk over playing an unproven kid and hope he becomes our main man at 20yo. We shouldn't forget who we are, we are the biggest club in the world, we should be looking to win trophies every season.
Christian pulisic is the dream, whenever i watch dortmund he is the creative outlet, spark, and driving force in terms of bringing his team into play and creating chances.
You do know Griezmann first rose to prominence as a winger before Diego Simeone signed him for Atletico Madrid and converted him to a central attacker, right?
Yeah, he changed his game though.
He did. But I doubt he has forgotten how to play in wide areas. A role he was good enough in to attract a club like ATM to sign him when they did
He did, but I wouldn't pay 90m for Real Sociedad's Griezmann. He's not improved as a winger anyway.
I said I could see Mourinho being interested in Malcolm and it looks like that's the case. I think he'll buy the players to fit the current system with the inverted RW and he fits the bill more than any.
You dont buy players at a top level for a role they played 5 years ago. He may be a good winger or not, but thats not what made him a top player. Buying him to see how he plays as a winger would be ridiculous. Especially if you consider what Mourinho expects from one, i dont see either being happy with his role, especially defensively. We agree to disagree
He was a quality winger. Right now he is simply a world class multi role player ala Hazard, Neymar, Dybala, Messi or CR7 etc and that is what you'd be playing 90m for. I don't buy any argument that claims he can't play wide to the same level he does down the middle.
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Sure others have said it, but I think mahrez would be ideal for us. Proven prem quality and will walk straight into the team.
I'd still like that malcom (assuming he can play on the left), as we lack genuine wingers in the squad.
I'd still like that malcom (assuming he can play on the left), as we lack genuine wingers in the squad.
There is nothing like "seeing'. He is already proven as a wide player and he has added playing down the middle to his bow. I'm certain he'd be comfortable in any role behind a striker in a 4-2-3-1 and any role upfront in a 4-3-3 now that he is a world class performer. And having played for Simeone, saying he'd not fancy a defensive shift makes no sense at all. Simply put, he is a world class multi role attacking player. Exactly the type we lack. The type who would operate to a world class level in the roles we are currently training Rashford and Martial to fulfill. Inside forwards, who provide width, rather than traditional wingers, who IMO are plain dying out in the game.
Griezmann could play as a winger, the point is he wont be that effective there. sure he'll do a job, but we already play Rashford/lingard/miki/mata out of position.
Jose wants specialists in each position. Griezmann is world class, don't getme wrong. But he isn't the answer to our RW dilemma.
Remember when we played Rooney out wide? He worked his socks off, done the best he could, assisted and scored some goals. But what happened when we played him centrally, in his actual position? He was much better. Like a different player. (peak Rooney obv)
Good players can play anywhere, but to get the best out of a player, play them in the right position.
I can see your point, it's really tricky to get right, I personally don't think Mahrez is good enough and at the same time I think Malcom is too raw, but then my choice would be Pulisic so it's a mixed bag.
I could definitely see Jose continuing to use that side like he has been doing with Mata, a player like Eriksen in particular would be the dream but it's possibly where he also sees Ozil being used if we do indeed intend to get him in the summer.
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