But my point was Rooney is different. His style of play has never stopped changing, that's the big thing.
I think we underestimate the versatility he's given us.
Replacing Rooney
- Thread starter Bebe
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
I think we underestimate the versatility he's given us.
Yeh Isco's a great shout.....
I agree with you. A lot of hatred can blind people. Rooney is the most versatile "big" player we could see leave in a while.
Good lord man, I'm clearly not saying we should or could actually sign him. He's just the mold of player I'm trying to describe.
We already replaced him with Kagawa and Van Persie. Fergie saw it coming, We should be focusing on the midfield.
El Shaarawy. Can play in the middle or on the left.
Rooney can not be replaced by anyone who isn't currently available. He is a unique player. There aren't many around with his attributes to be honest.
If we are going to "replace" Rooney in the starting line up, our game won't be identical to what it used to be.
If we are going to "replace" Rooney in the starting line up, our game won't be identical to what it used to be.
We don't need a like for like replacement, if we improve our quality in other areas of the pitch we will be fine.
Rooney's been far more injury prone than him over the past 2-3 years.
People always get hung up on replacing like for like. In reality it never works like that.
Buy 2 central midfielders. For the front 4 positions we'd have RVP, Hernandez, Welbeck, Nani, Valencia, Kagawa, Zaha and even Giggs as a backup. Basically 2 quality players for every position.
One would hope that with or without Rooney, we were planning on buying some quality in CM this summer.
If we follow that assumption, the "Rooney money" (which would primarily be knocking him off the wage bill) would be used for another attacking player. Unfortunately I am inclined to agree that Bale is out of our price range for this summer, although it would depend on who we buy and how much we spend in CM - for example I could see us signing Fellaini and Bale, but not Fabregas and Bale.
I think our best option would be to go for a cheaper CM option such as Fellaini, and then go all-out to bring in Bale. That would mean we line up as;
----------Carrick ------ Fellaini ---------
Nani -----------Kagawa-------------Bale
-----------------RVP-------------------
This would leave us quite heavily stocked on wingers though, so if this were to happen then I would expect Valencia/Young (one of, if not both) to leave, in order to balance the books.
Either way that is a hell of a strong line up, with the likes of Cleverley, Zaha, Welbeck and Hernandez all there as excellent backup choices. For me, that front four would be one of the best in the world, it would have balance and quality across all aspects, and a lot of interchanging and fluidity. For me it makes more sense to try to do that, than it does to spunk the entire wedge on bringing in a better midfielder (eg a Fabregas or Wilshere, as examples) and then be short on quality on the wings/up front.
If we follow that assumption, the "Rooney money" (which would primarily be knocking him off the wage bill) would be used for another attacking player. Unfortunately I am inclined to agree that Bale is out of our price range for this summer, although it would depend on who we buy and how much we spend in CM - for example I could see us signing Fellaini and Bale, but not Fabregas and Bale.
I think our best option would be to go for a cheaper CM option such as Fellaini, and then go all-out to bring in Bale. That would mean we line up as;
----------Carrick ------ Fellaini ---------
Nani -----------Kagawa-------------Bale
-----------------RVP-------------------
This would leave us quite heavily stocked on wingers though, so if this were to happen then I would expect Valencia/Young (one of, if not both) to leave, in order to balance the books.
Either way that is a hell of a strong line up, with the likes of Cleverley, Zaha, Welbeck and Hernandez all there as excellent backup choices. For me, that front four would be one of the best in the world, it would have balance and quality across all aspects, and a lot of interchanging and fluidity. For me it makes more sense to try to do that, than it does to spunk the entire wedge on bringing in a better midfielder (eg a Fabregas or Wilshere, as examples) and then be short on quality on the wings/up front.
Welbeck will probably play behind the forward in 4231 so that'll leave us with Kagawa, Welbeck, Zaha, Nani, Valencia and Young for those 3 positions. You're probably right in that it's too short when 5 of them will probably drift to the wing more than play centrally.
As many have said, keeping Nani and giving Kagawa a more prominent role in his favoured position negates the need to replace Rooney. It's all about central midfield and a top left winger wouldn't go astray either.
Most of that list would have to improve hugely this season for start.
I'd be heavily concerned if we lost Rooney, would need to buy a top top class cf and a top class cm that we need anyway.
Rooney offers a lot more than people give him credit for at times, but it is getting to the point where we need to accept he is starting to cause more harm than good. We dealt with the loss of RVN, Stam, Beckham, etc. Great players in great positions are regularly replaced with either better players in other positions or greats to take over the mantle.
Out goes an RVN, in comes a Rooney. Out goes a Rooney in comes a RVP. Yes slightly different timing, but this is the real key players and the take overs.
Out goes Stam in comes Ferdinand/ Vidic. Out goes Beckham, in comes Ronaldo then Valencia. Again not necessarily always progressing, but the sum of the parts is often growing.
Rooney offers a lot more than people give him credit for at times, but it is getting to the point where we need to accept he is starting to cause more harm than good. We dealt with the loss of RVN, Stam, Beckham, etc. Great players in great positions are regularly replaced with either better players in other positions or greats to take over the mantle.
Out goes an RVN, in comes a Rooney. Out goes a Rooney in comes a RVP. Yes slightly different timing, but this is the real key players and the take overs.
Out goes Stam in comes Ferdinand/ Vidic. Out goes Beckham, in comes Ronaldo then Valencia. Again not necessarily always progressing, but the sum of the parts is often growing.
Not that I think we should sign him (and City have been heavily linked), but if you're looking for a player who is available, plays in the same position, has similar attributes to Rooney, younger and will settle for a much more modest salary...then Stevan Jovetic is surely worth a mention. That's if City haven't signed him by now.
Just want to stress, I'm not saying we should sign him. I think with Van Persie, Hernandez, Welbeck and Kagawa as well as a couple of talented youngsters and Moyes' supposed preference for a 3 man midfield - I'm not sure we will even need a direct replacement. Maybe better off using the funds for a top draw central midfielder, and hopefully a good young prospect too.
Just want to stress, I'm not saying we should sign him. I think with Van Persie, Hernandez, Welbeck and Kagawa as well as a couple of talented youngsters and Moyes' supposed preference for a 3 man midfield - I'm not sure we will even need a direct replacement. Maybe better off using the funds for a top draw central midfielder, and hopefully a good young prospect too.
Which isn't a bad thing in all likelihood.
It's needed a good kick up the arse for about 2 years which is, coincidentally or otherwise, as long as Rooney's game has in many respects too.I think his versatility is very overrated. He's been gash on the wing and poor in midfield IMO. The only role he was ever truly good in is a forward.
Reuss... not sure if he is available though and would probably cost a lot more than rooney...
So perhaps best just to keep rooney
So perhaps best just to keep rooney
If he leaves we will need a cm and a attacking midfielder, play the cm with Carrick, Kagawa behind RVP with then the wingers. With the option of the attacking cm playing behind RVP as well. We've got enough cover up front if we play one striker.
I don't even think he's good enough to play behind the striker any more. He's becoming too clumpy in his movement and just isn't elusive enough to play there. Out and out striker now, like in his most prolific seasons for us.
We don't need a direct replacement for Rooney, bale would be perfect but he'd cost a fortune.
His numbers are better than performances these days. I know people are going to jump on me for saying this but I reckon he could be finished as a top player sooner than some may think. He started his career very early, with players who are playing regularly at 17-18 it's often difficult to maintain the same level into their 30s unless they really care about their fitness level (Giggs).
I don't think anybody is getting hung up on replacing like for like as that would be quite difficult/impossible.
Personally, I'm less concerned about replacing Rooney and more worried about him strengthening a rival. You may hold the view that Rooney's past his best (or very close) but he's still capable of causing big damage to us if he stays in the Premier League.
It's not like Rooney has been playing much better than any of them towards to end of last season. People seem to think Rooney is some insanely good player, he's nothing compared to what he was, even a couple of years ago he disappeared often and had patchy games, but many glossed over those facts. I wouldn't be too worried about losing him.
His career as a "top player" is going down the pan quicker than Ronaldinho's.
Like we replaced Keano Giggs and Scholes? Or Ronaldo?
Like we replaced SAF?
Is this a dig at Moyes or an acknowledgment of Sir's irreplaceability?
Come off it. He's still a brilliant player when through the middle and we should think very carefully about selling him to someone in this country.
I always thought the best contribution Rooney's made for us in the last few years, was the defensive work he put in whilst playing as a #10. We were able to get away with a Giggs/Carrick midfield all the way to the Champions League final because of how selfless (irony) Rooney was to the cause. It's this reason why I was one of the few who were wanting Kagawa to remain left and keep Rooney as a #10 until we've sorted our midfield. However I do think Danny Welbeck could be the answer and is capable enough to provide that extra defensive work in the middle should Rooney leave. He did it admirably against Madrid and Welbeck is one of those players that you'll know will always give it his all for us.
In games where we need that extra bit of defensive help, we could use Welbeck and all other games use Kagawa as a #10. We should still sign Bale though.
In games where we need that extra bit of defensive help, we could use Welbeck and all other games use Kagawa as a #10. We should still sign Bale though.
SAF is irreplaceable, but if we were planing his replacement for years which we where I think we could have done a lot better, and like I said we never replaced Keane Scholes, Giggs as a left winger or Ronaldo.
Rooney is a fairly unique player in the things he can bring to the team in different positions at a high level. So, it's pretty much impossible to replace him, but the team can evolve in a different direction.
Though it would've been true even if Rooney wasn't leaving, SAFs consistently saying 'he'l be better next year' was perhaps an indication too.
He's going to Chelsea.
Agreed.
If he goes to Chelsea, and produces the goods, we could find ourselves in serious trouble. I'd be very worried. This has been a fairly disastrous close season thus far.