You can have Obi Mikel for £15 million.
Replacing Carrick this summer is critical
- Thread starter Brwned
- Start date
We still need two midfielders imho. Someone to help replace when he's injured/phase out Carrick, and one to play alongside Carrick (And Carricks replacement) and Herrera.
Its not so much replacing Carrick for his defensive organiztion, we need that, but we equally need him for his forward passing, range, and vision. That's why it's impossible to do a like for like replacement and we'll probably need a proper defensive midfielder and get the passing creativity and range in the position fellaini is occupying now. That's where I can see us getting gundogan. He has the range, creativity and forward passing that can link play up, but he also dictates games. He'll offer that, while we can get a separate defensive mid like matic for the defensive side and keeping us solid at the back. There's not one player who we can buy to do both, Sahin is probably closest in style to carrick but he's nowhere near as good.
fixed.
I'd still be tempted to be honest.
He's the one! Glad you joined the cult.
They will, whoever tries. Gladbach already stated they've no intention of selling him, especially since they are already losing Kramer to Leverkusen. He's been their best and most consistent player this season in my eyes. We'd probably have to pay 25-30m pounds to get him, I would though.
Blind is not the man for the job - the number's don't lie...
Note: The red blocks are the three games when we had Rooney + Fletcher/Fellaini and Herrera at the base.
The graph is just a simple way of illustrating the trend of points/results in each game with these players as the anchor in midfield. It shows quite clearly that the only time we've had any kind of consistency is when Carrick's been at the base of the midfield. Worth noting that Carrick started in the middle of a back three in that Liverpool game too, so you can extend his winning run by an extra game considering he was doing the same thing he always does - providing that cool, calm, calculated presence from a deep position.
Based on that I think it's fair to see we shouldn't be too concerned about what Carrick's influence on the pitch now and perhaps even into his late 30s, but it's becoming increasingly clear that age is catching up to him in the form of injuries. He's no longer the reliable ever-present he once was and we need a very able replacement in the short-term and a top class replacement in the long-term.
Blind has done fairly well this year on an individual level for his first season in a new country - he's shown his versatility and he's been pretty consistent - but ultimately you can't deny the correlation between the results/performances and his position at the base of our midfield. Part of it is because Carrick has played so well when he has been on the pitch this season, but the other part has been that Blind hasn't done well enough to earn his place as a regular starter in such a key position.
His passing is very safe and that's one of the biggest factors in our lack of penetration and laboured play. His pressing is very aggressive and often leaves us exposed on the counter-attack, and this is exacerbated by him being one of the slowest players in the team and being able to recover when he's been taken out of the game.
It's easy to say that after a terrible performance today from both himself and the team in which we lacked any pace in our penetration in possession and we were exposed on the counter, but both of these things have been a regularly theme this season. Except when Carrick has played. We need someone who can provide that defensive screen along with the penetrative passing that we so sorely lack on days like these, but along with that we really need someone who can be - as van Gaal says - a coach on the pitch.
Thanks Brwnd. Exactly what I suspected.
I'll keep saying it but Johannes Geis at Mainz is the answer. His passing range from deep is superb and having started off as a CB knows how to defend. He's also not made from glass and captains Mainz now and then. Dortmund are after him to replace Gundogan with good reason. He's also young and would therefore accept being a deputy for Carrick for the first season. I can't stress just how good this fella is.
Not surprising stats but it does highlight the fact that he's uniqe, in the sense he's the only one offering everything we need in CM.
days like today are worthwhile if it underlines the fact that Blind or Rooney is like Phil Neville playing in midfield during an injury crisis
competent capable of decent performances but not a good option we should be using often....
I'm sure Van Gaal is on it.... I do think we need 2 midfielders to add to Herrera and Carrick
competent capable of decent performances but not a good option we should be using often....
I'm sure Van Gaal is on it.... I do think we need 2 midfielders to add to Herrera and Carrick
I agree and the thing with Van Gaal is that he really seems to rate German players so Geis is also definitely someone he could turn his attention to.
It would be a good call and with a perspective of further development.
Absolutely.
Something like Carrick/Herrera/Gundogan/Schniderlin + Blind (as left back cover as well so he gets games) + Fellaini as a 'plan B' option and when we want to play him in this specialist midfielder/attacker hybrid role.
I fear we'll only sign one midfielder in the Summer though...and regret it.
Many teams don't have someone like Carrick in their team, but most big teams have player with good passing range in his poisition. Bayern with Schwei/Alonso/Lahm(?), Barca with Busquets, Madrid with Kroos, and Juve with Pogba/Pirlo. Our good run in Europe coincide with having Carrick in DM. So having someone with good passing range in that "DM" position is a must.
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Wanyama for me as a #6.
Wanyama and Gundogan are the two Id go for this summer.
Wanyama and Gundogan are the two Id go for this summer.
I like him but would prefer someone defensively strong also which Xhaka has, we need a tackler in the midfield also, we get creativity and strength in Xhaka I feel
No surprise he is the engine of our midfield and we struggle when his not playing. We desperately need to find our future Carrick and bring him in the summer and slowly introduce him to take over Carricks reigns.
ridiculous, there is not a big difference in Blind's or Carrick's positioning. Blind tends to be more advanced but it doesn't make him worse though. As soon as we're caught on counter Carrick can't do nothing about it. He's even slower than Blind. Carrick has a better distribution and is more of a physical presence, that's what we miss him for, not his defending, you could see Herrera playing in midfield and having much better defensive contribution than Carrick..
would he picked stones? It was Valencia who was marking him so I doubt so. Had Januzaj been playing he would dribble passed three players and had two assists, it's as irrelevant..
The fact is that Blind wasn't completely fit and the whole team underperformed, we also had quite a bad luck, I am okay to start Blind next game, he showed he can play there couple of times.. I am also good with coming carrick back asap, he had a little better season than Blind but it wasn't long ago when people were whining about how Carrick should be dropped and we played Blind..
When talking actual topic, I certainly think we should get some number six but this time world class, somene who will kick both players' ass, both should be considered squad players next season, Carrick's 34 next season, picks up too many injuries and neither him is good enough defensively to play that role, we are getting exposed too much, we desperately need some hard man and that man you already mentioned it's Schneiderlin, had he(or similar type of player) been playing the game it might have been a different story. Had Carrick been playing nothing dramatic would have happened maybe our passing would be more crisp
Did we get exposed too much against Tottenham, Liverpool, Villa and City?
Too add some more facts, with Carrick starting this season we have only lost one game, and that was against Southampton.
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Strootman if he makes a full recovery
It's not so much the passing range as being the critical part (though it is important), it's the lateral awareness in the space in front of the back four. Schneiderlin is excellent at marking that area of the pitch and is in general a pretty intelligent player. He doesn't have the passing range of Carrick but could absolutely do a job for us.
Other alternative would be having someone that absolutely superb in screening the back four, although offer very little in passing play: Mascherano, Makelele, Matic. To compensate for lack of creativity, they allow the team to have more attacking players in midfield. LvG has played van Bommel and Nigel de Jong, so he's not against using this type of "limited" player.
The passing range is critical though. He has the ability to quickly pick out the correct forward pass to an attacking outlet which is a huge part of our breaking down of the opponent.
He not only soaks up pressure for us but hurts teams from deep which is why they don't opt for the overload counter attacking option when he's playing.
Blind is not the man for the job - the number's don't lie...
Note: The red blocks are the three games when we had Rooney + Fletcher/Fellaini and Herrera at the base.
The graph is just a simple way of illustrating the trend of points/results in each game with these players as the anchor in midfield. It shows quite clearly that the only time we've had any kind of consistency is when Carrick's been at the base of the midfield. Worth noting that Carrick started in the middle of a back three in that Liverpool game too, so you can extend his winning run by an extra game considering he was doing the same thing he always does - providing that cool, calm, calculated presence from a deep position.
Based on that I think it's fair to see we shouldn't be too concerned about what Carrick's influence on the pitch now and perhaps even into his late 30s, but it's becoming increasingly clear that age is catching up to him in the form of injuries. He's no longer the reliable ever-present he once was and we need a very able replacement in the short-term and a top class replacement in the long-term.
Blind has done fairly well this year on an individual level for his first season in a new country - he's shown his versatility and he's been pretty consistent - but ultimately you can't deny the correlation between the results/performances and his position at the base of our midfield. Part of it is because Carrick has played so well when he has been on the pitch this season, but the other part has been that Blind hasn't done well enough to earn his place as a regular starter in such a key position.
His passing is very safe and that's one of the biggest factors in our lack of penetration and laboured play. His pressing is very aggressive and often leaves us exposed on the counter-attack, and this is exacerbated by him being one of the slowest players in the team and being able to recover when he's been taken out of the game.
It's easy to say that after a terrible performance today from both himself and the team in which we lacked any pace in our penetration in possession and we were exposed on the counter, but both of these things have been a regularly theme this season. Except when Carrick has played. We need someone who can provide that defensive screen along with the penetrative passing that we so sorely lack on days like these, but along with that we really need someone who can be - as van Gaal says - a coach on the pitch.
Yup. We're just a much, much better team with him in our starting line-up. Incredible that some people still can't/won't see this.
Mascherano is actually now pretty well rounded and matic is no makelele either. Carrick isn't some Scholes type playmaker. I don't think we need some genius passer to replace him.
Carrick is an infinitely better passer of the ball than someone like Mascherano.
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Carrick is a passing genius in my book. He's never been an attacking midfielder so he's never chalked up key passes or assists but there aren't many players in the last 10 years better than him passing from deep. Scholes, Pirlo, Alonso and Xavi.... Then Carrick.
He's much better, yes. But mascherano and matic are not the same as makelele. Mascherano often builds from the back these days (did it at the World Cup and now for barca, nothing like his Liverpool days) as does matic. Every team doesn't have to have a player exactly like Carrick. It's gotten to the stage now where we've become far too reliant on Carrick and we need another anchor. But it doesn't have to be someone just like him. It can be a lesser passer. It can be a stronger, better tackler and more mobile player. The key is to get someone who can add as much in his own way.
He's not even close to that lot in this aspect. Excellent player but you can't put both him and Scholes in the same bracket as passers.
Masch, Matic, and even Makelele are not bad passers, but we don't expect them to control the game or launch counter attack; which Carrick is capable of from his position.
Agreed that Carrick isn't close to Scholes playmaking, and we don't need as genius as Scholes in that position. Schewi has less passing range than Carrick, but a much better DM. In the last WC, Schewi was more of "limited" DM by spraying safe passes, and let Kroos be the playmaker. So that's another route that we can take.
Having said that he's obviously very good at it and better than most holding midfielders. But basically I agree with @Insanity s last few sentences that we might go for someone with a lesser passing range but better qualities in other aspects.
For example, I think when gundogan was regarded as one of europes best midfielders with Dortmund, he played alongside bender, who is no Carrick as a passer either. It's all about the right combination.
For example, I think when gundogan was regarded as one of europes best midfielders with Dortmund, he played alongside bender, who is no Carrick as a passer either. It's all about the right combination.
That's why I didn't.
We don't need a carbon copy but we definitely need someone who can screen the defence and also hurt the opposition with passing. Carrick's not the only example. Alonso's another. We already have the Mascherano, Makalele archetype in Blind. Hopefully his passing will improve but he's not good enough yet, as we can see from what's happened this season.
Absolutely. And there's no better or worse. Carrick might be fine at playing the ball out from the back. But someone with more muscle has its own benefits. Matic has been key for Chelsea in this way.
I was just initially making the point that mascherano, for example, is no longer just a "screener". I've seen a lot of barca this year and Argentina at the World Cup, and for both he's been very good at building attacks. No the Carrick level of quality to his passing but he's good at it as I'm sure matic is, with the bonus of being an asbolute beast defensively.
Calling them both genius passers is doing just that.
If carrick is a genius passer, what's Scholes? What's Messi?
Anyways this is semantics. We're basically agreeing.
Why? There are plenty of other teams that use different combinations. I just gave the example of Dortmund. Chelsea are the same. Arsenal are the same. City have no deep lying playmaker either although they've been rubbish at this. Barca don't. Psg do I guess with verrati.
And blind is nowhere near mascherano defensively.
If we sign gundogan and have Herrera already, the need for playmaking from the holding midfielder isn't that big.
Schneiderlin could become. Would have to rein in his attacking though inthink
Serves you lot right for stealing him from us. Btw, thank you for doing so 
I only saw Xhaka a couple of times when we played Switzerland and a couple of times after that. Never really impressed me as he seemed more like a headless chicken. Has he improved a lot since that time?
LVG has already signed one in Blind.Whether he will turn out to be good enough is another story.People always rave about players from other clubs but the step up to Manchester United is always huge and patience is needed.