Replacing Carrick this summer is critical

Eriku said:
:lol:

Ronaldo's a guaranteed goalscorer, and yes, he can carry teams, but he doesn't make the whole team better the way players like Carrick do.

Central midfielders are in with a shout for being the most important players to a team, speaking in general.

Incidentally, this is something Fergie certainly seemed to agree with. Even when Ronaldo was vying for Balon d'Or, he'd refer to Scholes as his best player.
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The same Fergie who refused to address the CM issue for nearly 5 years?
 
The reason why we crumble without him is because when he isn't around, we try to reshuffle the entire midfield to try to get players to do what he does, albeit at a vastly inferior standard. For example, Blind or Herrera in the holding role and then using Rooney in the middle supposedly to add defensive stability (a great myth IMO). This means that we try to cover up for his loss at the cost of what those players are good at; providing the movement that messes up the opposing defence line and the offensive creativity. If we're looking for replacements, we should be looking at two options; a direct replacement in someone who can do everything Carrick does; this one is hard as there really aren't many young players who can save Matic. Or a Khedira type box to box dynamo who will add physicality whilst bringing an acceptable level of intelligence in terms of picking passes and movement.
 
Bojan11 said:
I wouldn't go that far.

Carrick has been great this season, but I think he is replaceable. Where as you'd find it tougher to replace Roy Keane.

The problem we have is that when Carrick is injured, we have to move four players out of position.
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We didn't find it tough to replace Roy Keane. 6 months later we bought Michael Carrick. Having not won the title for 3 years, we then won it 3 times in a row and went to 3 CL finals.

The reason I made the post is because I don't think most fans think Carrick is as hard to replace as some of the "legends" we've lost. It's only after we've spent big money or CM's with big reputations we'll realize just how good Carrick was. He'll never have the "legend" status among our fans and always play settle fiddle to names like Keane. But he'll be one of the hardest players we've had to replace, up their with Schmeichel.
 
Bojan11 said:
The same Fergie who refused to address the CM issue for nearly 5 years?
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Yet still won 3 of those 5 league titles, 2 league cups and got to 2 Champions League finals and a Semi Final.
 
redmeister said:
We didn't find it tough to replace Roy Keane. 6 months later we bought Michael Carrick. Having not won the title for 3 years, we then won it 3 times in a row and went to 3 CL finals.

The reason I made the post is because I don't think most fans think Carrick is as hard to replace as some of the "legends" we've lost. It's only after we've spent big money or CM's with big reputations we'll realize just how good Carrick was. He'll never have the "legend" status among our fans and always play settle fiddle to names like Keane. But he'll be one of the hardest players we've had to replace, up their with Schmeichel.
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Players are replaceable, as long as people don't keep thinking they have to be like for like.
 
El-Manos said:
Would Koke be similar to Carrick?
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From what I've seen of him, no. Not even close.

I think Schniederlin is the closest thing around at the moment. Strootman if he wasn't crocked.

Edit: Just add. Koke is world class, I just never saw him in the Carrick sort of mould.
 
Pexbo said:
Yet still won 3 of those 5 league titles, 2 league cups and got to 2 Champions League finals and a Semi Final.
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And?

I just said Fergie clearly didn't think CM was very important compared to other positions like the other poster said.
 
Rather than replace him, we need another player with similar attributes who can accompany him.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Players are replaceable, as long as people don't keep thinking they have to be like for like.
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They don't have to be like for like. But that have to add as much quality to the side. Carrick wasn't similar to Keane, but he replaced him. There are lots if CM's with big reputations out there, but in my opinion, they wont be as good as Carrick.
 
Blind is actually quite shit, not good enough to be a regular starter for us.
 
El-Manos said:
Would Koke be similar to Carrick?
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He's more like Ander Herrera.

Raoul said:
Rather than replace him, we need another player with similar attributes who can accompany him.
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If he continues to spend more time on the sideline, we'll probably have no choice than to replace him. Even if he stays fit, wouldn't it be preferable not to have the same situation like we had with Scholes?

Fergus' son said:
Blind is actually quite shit, not good enough to be a regular starter for us.
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Harsh. I wouldn't mind, if he would be O'Shea mark 2.
 
bucky said:
He's more like Ander Herrera.



If he continues to spend more time on the sideline, we'll probably have no choice than to replace him. Even if he stays fit, wouldn't it be preferable not to have the same situation like we had with Scholes?



Harsh. I wouldn't mind, if he would be O'Shea mark 2.
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Exactly, you always need somebody like that in your squad.
 
bucky said:
If he continues to spend more time on the sideline, we'll probably have no choice than to replace him. Even if he stays fit, wouldn't it be preferable not to have the same situation like we had with Scholes?
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Fully agree, we played Scholes until the wheels fell off and we had to finally buy. Carrick will be 34 next season and isn't likely to suddenly stop getting these injuries that come with age, we should be bedding his replacement in next season, not just banking on him to be a regular starter, he should be more of a bonus than a definite at this stage.
 
Devil may care said:
Fully agree, we played Scholes until the wheels fell off and we had to finally buy. Carrick will be 34 next season and isn't likely to suddenly stop getting these injuries that come with age, we should be bedding his replacement in next season, not just banking on him to be a regular starter, he should be more of a bonus than a definite at this stage.
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We did the same with Giggs as well, let him play on and play on, even though he was still Ok. We should have let him retire.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
We did the same with Giggs as well, let him play on and play on, even though he was still Ok. We should have let him retire.
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Yes, sentimentality crept in during those last couple of seasons, we had no interest in fixing midfield at all for some reason.
 
I believe we tried to find a suitable replacement in Kroos but he chose Real Madrid instead of us. I also think the names that keep popping up in threads like this, Verratti-Gundogan-Strootman-Schneiderlin etc., are closer to the defensive minded b2b midfielder we're looking for to play slightly ahead of Carrick and alongside Herrera (in our recent 4-1-4-1) and not holding midfielders.

The holding role in the midfield is quite tricky, it demands lots of experience and footballing intelligence, good positioning and passing range plus the ability to read the opponent's game. There are very few players who can do that at top level and that's one of the reasons there are very few teams that can play with a reverse triangle in the midfield at top level.

Since Carrick is not getting any younger, maybe LvG should consider the possibility of being a different kind of player. By different i mean someone who is a more a CDM than a holding midfielder. Then we would have the chance to play a more conventional 4-2-3-1 (triangle in the midfield with the point forward) with Herrera as the #8, Mata (Rooney) in the hole and Rooney (RvP) up front. A DM who can operate like a breakwater in front of the back four would limit the defensive risk of using a more lightweight #8 and help us create the much desired balance in our midfield.

I believe that's the easiest way to "solve" this issue. Otherwise we'll have to sign more players, a holding and a b2b midfielder. And sadly these are not the only positions we will be looking to strengthen the first team in the summer.
 
We need a world class replacement who can come right in and also a backup. When Carrick is out we reshuffle our midfeild and start playing Rooney in midfeild and let's face it his crap there and also becoming a achilies heel but that's another story.
 
Fertile didn't just ignore midfield.

Carrick, of course.
Anderson. A massive swing and a miss there.
Hargreaves. Warning signs of a dodgy knew were ignored
Fletcher. Bad luck re colitis.

The mishandling of Pogba was the real crime, but we've discussed that extensively here before.
 
bucky said:
He's more like Ander Herrera.
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He's got much better passing range though. Atm he's amongst the best in europe in terms of crosses and long balls. Im talking Alonso level. And even though he mostly plays from the left i believe he's also suited to the deep playmaker role because of his strength and tackling ability. Herrera is more of a short passer suited to the pass and move style. His long balls can be a bit erratic.
 
If we only buy one midfielder this Summer, and continue to use Rooney, Fellaini and RVP (:lol:) there at times, I might actually lose my shit.
 
prarek said:
He's got much better passing range though. Atm he's amongst the best in europe in terms of crosses and long balls. Im talking Alonso level. And even though he mostly plays from the left i believe he's also suited to the deep playmaker role because of his strength and tackling ability. Herrera is more of a short passer suited to the pass and move style. His long balls can be a bit erratic.
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I don't disagree, Koke is quite simply more talented than Herrera, but I don't think the holding role is his best position.
 
bucky said:
I don't disagree, Koke is quite simply more talented than Herrera, but I don't think the holding role is his best position.
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Oh im just saying he seems to have the qualities to play there because of his tackling, physical strength and long range passing. But yeah i agree probably not his best position i think he's best as CM/LM.

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Gundogan would be my first choice. Gundogan, Blind and Carrick, not bad at all.
 
prarek said:
Gundogan would be my first choice. Gundogan, Blind and Carrick, not bad at all.
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I would absolutely love Gundo in United but he shouldnt really be considered as Carrick successor/backup. He isnt and he never was a holding midfielder.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
I would absolutely love Gundo in United but he shouldnt really be considered as Carrick successor/backup. He isnt and he never was a holding midfielder.
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Do you think he can be converted to one though? If he can't then it looks more likely he will challenge for Herrera's place. From the european games i saw 2 seasons ago Gundogan looked great in the deep role. Calm, composed and great passing range.
 
prarek said:
Do you think he can be converted to one though? If he can't then it looks more likely he will challenge for Herrera's place. From the european games i saw 2 seasons ago Gundogan looked great in the deep role. Calm, composed and great passing range.
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I dont know, offensively he could play there as he has these qualities you mentioned but im not sure if he could do the defensive work. Carrick for all his offensive qualities, calmness on the ball, passing range etc. he is first and foremost defensive mastermind.
 
Kondogbia all day every day, he has the tactical sense, the technique, the calmness and the power. He also has a great mentality, last season he struggled a little bit but worked hard and improved a lot.
 
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