I've just watched that muslim video and it says nothing about what we were discussing.
Abbsta, is god neither good nor evil?
Abbsta, is god neither good nor evil?
Religion, what's the point?
- Thread starter TheRedFlag
- Start date
Thank you.That's basically how you have been arguing about the Quran. ("The stars can't fall", "Bees don't eat fruit", "Earth doesn't orbits around Sun", ...etc.)
I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly haven't been arguing like that.
Why don't you address then point rather avoiding it with smart-arse pedantry?
I am going to answer that : there are 99 names by which Muslms refer to Allah, they are called "asmāʾ allāh al-ḥusnā" (there are possibly more as some are said to be hidden).
Here is the complete list :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam
And you will find amongst them "The Good".
Fair enough if that's how you feel, I was merely replying to your point about a holy book having multiple interpretations confirming God as "unfair and unjust".
True, God shouldn't have to worry about logistics as he's all-powerful, omnipotent etc. But human beings are reading it, which is where constraints like logistics come into play.
I would flip this around and say because it is more rewarding for us. Every human struggles with the difficulties of this world, and through that struggle defines who they are as a person. Without struggle or hardship, there could be no accomplishment, no overcoming and no achievement. Sounds a bit boring really.
There are enough difficulties in this world without divine obscurantism, and it's not hard to imagine even harder circumstances if that were the effect he was going for. He could have not revealed himself in the first place if he enjoys the sight of humans overcoming adversity so much.
And once again, it paints a picture of your deity as toying, hedonistic infant, incongruous with an idea of a fair, just and loving one.
Should a person suffer eternal damnation, just because the creator thought it would be boring if everyone was just fast tracked into heaven, and deliberately sent mixed messages to his subjects?
What enjoyment for instance, could he possibly derive from thousands of people dying every year in the most ghastly and gruesome ways? Does he enjoy people getting killed, is it not entertaining enough for him when it doesn't happen. He can be either powerless or unwilling to stop it... Take your pick, but either way, it's nothing like the description that we've been offered.
Imagine if god did exist and only those that figured out the religious texts were false were allowed into his heaven. For it's possible that each religious text is worshipping a false god. Religious people won't dare consider they could be in the wrong religion. No more than they are willing to concede there may not be a god.
I like how most people in this thread are debating in a respectable manner, but then you have Werewolf whose bitterness is projected throughout his posts and thus, he tries to degrade Islam. Generalising and marginalising will take you far in life, yet you were wrong in our last debate when someone who can speak Arabic fluently - me - provided you with more facts that left you perplexed, and thus you reverted to insults. Keep telling yourself you're an expert, this is funny lulz.
Anyway, I have a few questions for everyone in this thread, and I'm genuinely interested in your answers. What is the purpose of life? Do you believe in life after death? Do you think there's a God? If so, why? If not, why? Final question: are there moral principles you follow or do you do whatever you want?
Anyway, I have a few questions for everyone in this thread, and I'm genuinely interested in your answers. What is the purpose of life? Do you believe in life after death? Do you think there's a God? If so, why? If not, why? Final question: are there moral principles you follow or do you do whatever you want?
There is probably no purpose in life, we're just little insignificant creatures clinging onto a rock as it hurls across the universe. Life after death and god are just (supposedly) nice little stories which help people console themselves. Moral principles are slightly more complicated, as they're effectively born out of social norms which we adhere to that make life easier within the various societies we reside.
Ah still feeling the pain aren't we ? It will get easier with time.
Showing how ridiculous your religion is ? Nah, it amuses me more than anything else. I didn't need to work hard though...
You need to start making a difference between attacking Islam and attacking muslims.
And last time all you did was copy paste some shit you found on the internet which I showed to be bullshit. I am still waiting for you to show me where I was wrong though (Is it the 6th time I ask you this, or is it the 7th ?).
And no I don't pretend to be an expert, far from it. Yet, it doesn't take an expert to see how pathetic the whole thing is.
See Silva's answer.
Biologically? To survive and reproduce. Existentially? Nothing, though part of the human condition is that we can pontificate on what we'd like it to be. To make a good impression on those around you, to be happy etc etc. It differs from person to person, but there's no ultimate universal "point". If there was babies wouldn't be born diseased or disfigured or die of cot deaths without getting a fair crack at it.
No
No. Because there's no evidence or indication that there is. I don't however find the idea of a theoretical creator deity insane or completely implausible. But I do find the idea that a God created us for a special purpose in the midst of this unfathomably huge universe, wrote books "for all time" and gave them to backward sand tribes to interpret in the middle ages, or that he interferes, judges or cares for humans and their activities in anyway, completely bonkers. Because there are all manner of things that point to this being untrue. One of which is common sense.
No one but psychopaths do whatever they want. Everyone has some sort of moral code. You learn it from your parents, your teachers, your peer group, your role models, or just through life experience. The ethic of reciprocity is fairly ubiquitous and ancient maxim that almost every civilisation has hit upon independently at some point.
Some findings of the Cognition, Religion and Theology Project:
- Studies by Emily Reed Burdett and Justin Barrett, from the University of Oxford, suggest that children below the age of five find it easier to believe in some superhuman properties than to understand similar human limitations. Children were asked whether their mother would know the contents of a box in which she could not see. Children aged three believed that their mother and God would always know the contents, but by the age of four, children start to understand that their mothers are not all-seeing and all knowing. However, children may continue to believe in all-seeing, all-knowing supernatural agents, such as a god or gods.
- Experiments involving adults, conducted by Jing Zhu from Tsinghua University (China), and Natalie Emmons and Jesse Bering from The Queen’s University, Belfast, suggest that people across many different cultures instinctively believe that some part of their mind, soul or spirit lives on after-death. The studies demonstrate that people are natural 'dualists' finding it easy to conceive of the separation of the mind and the body.
So, in effect, this discovery is something we already knew?
Just because we find it easier to think in a particular way does not mean that it is true in fact
You can link it like that too.
You can link it like that too.
It could have been a very small and careful bull
Lack of evidence for something does suggest absence especially if that evidence has been sought after but falls short of proving absence. In an everyday context, with the exception of religion, we do just this and assume that things that there are no evidence for "don't exist" but in a more academic discussion we wouldn't say that. So you are all talking about the same thing in a slightly different context.
Everyone has moral beliefs regarding right and wrong and I doubt anybody in this world truly thinks that doing anything they want is a just way of living. If you ask someone what the moral thing to do is, they might claim that it is that which produces the best outcome. Well, best is just superlative for good and people have different conceptions of what that might be. Some people are consequentialists, some are deontologists, some people believe justice is about fairness, some people think justice is about giving people what they deserve. Either way, everyone has an answer to the question of how should we live, and more often than not, these answers and loci of ethics do not necessarily involve God or some grandiose purpose of a divine afterlife.
I don't think Science can ever accept the concept of "God". Even if God turned up over the skies tomorrow, Science will just give it a name "Advanced Unclassified Life Form" & start theorizing more. It will probably be treated as Alien and that's it!
Rather than ponder such "pie in the sky" fantasicm, why not work with what we currently know and move forward based on the information we have.
That's a false assumption about science. Science is open to whatever infact is true. The problem with the concept of "god" is that it's not distinct or philosophically sound, and it's not testable/provable/falsifiable. It's basically just making shit up.
What is the purpose of life? To pass your genes on. The rest is an enjoyable side effect.
Do you believe in life after death? No
Do you think there's a God? No
If not, why? The same reason that I don't believe in unicorns. Zero evidence
Final question: are there moral principles you follow or do you do whatever you want? Of course. What an odd question.
Do you believe in life after death? No
Do you think there's a God? No
If not, why? The same reason that I don't believe in unicorns. Zero evidence
Final question: are there moral principles you follow or do you do whatever you want? Of course. What an odd question.
I was just mentioning the parallel between a god and a alien. If such a omnipotent lifeform does appear, religion would claim it as god, and science would claim it as alien. To extend it, even if evidence of a mythical being described in a religious book found, the natural assumption of a scientist would be to classify it as alien. Scientifically even god is a alien, right? Isn't the term 'alien' an superset that could as well cover 'god'?
Moneymay, some counter questions for you and the other theists in the thread.
Are you afraid of mortality?
Is your only meaning in life to get into heaven via the rules of Islam?
Without Islam do you think that you would descend into a life of debauchery and/or criminality?
Are you afraid of mortality?
Is your only meaning in life to get into heaven via the rules of Islam?
Without Islam do you think that you would descend into a life of debauchery and/or criminality?
It could have been a very small and careful bull
Lack of evidence for something does suggest absence especially if that evidence has been sought after but falls short of proving absence. In an everyday context, with the exception of religion, we do just this and assume that things that there are no evidence for "don't exist" but in a more academic discussion we wouldn't say that. So you are all talking about the same thing in a slightly different context.
I'm not sure one can rampage carefully. Good effort though.
I thought of perhaps, in the five minutes before the scientist arrives, a team of highly trained ninja cleaners swoop in and clear up all the bullshit, remove the broken porcelain and replenish the shelves with mint condition stock.
What is the purpose of life?
Nil
Do you believe in life after death?
No, it's a logical absurdity
Do you think there's a God?
No
If not, why?
I escaped/survived the brainwashing process at the age of nine and thankfully had liberal parents
Final question: are there moral principles you follow or do you do whatever you want?
Nil
Do you believe in life after death?
No, it's a logical absurdity
Do you think there's a God?
No
If not, why?
I escaped/survived the brainwashing process at the age of nine and thankfully had liberal parents
Final question: are there moral principles you follow or do you do whatever you want?
Conversely, you could say that if an alien turned up over the skies, believers would no doubt claim it's in fact their god.
I think Stargate SG1 has taught us all we need to know about aliens posing as gods. People who believe them tend to sooner or later get shot with lasers.
If a giant omnipotent being appeared in the sky, I don't see what's remotely wrong with calling it an Advanced Unclassified Life Form and continuing to theorise (i.e. try and work out) what it actually is. Rather than immediately jumping to the conclusion it's a God, let alone a specific God. That's precisely why people used to worship the Sun.
While we are on the subject of appearances of god, I'd like to ask a question to the devout. Why did god start showing up with more and more infrequency? I mean, he used to be a regular cast member in the Old Testament. He would not only appear in his own personage, he would get shit done man. Marriage counseling, war mongering, genocide plotting, you name it. All downhill from there though. A couple of brief appearances here and there in visions and such. Sending his son etc. In the 'final prophecy' he's content with just sending his lackeys.
Nowadays he won't even write or call anymore.
Could it be perhaps, that as we've advanced and perfected ways to falsify bullshit claims, it became increasingly difficult for him to make an entrance the way he used to.
Nowadays he won't even write or call anymore.
Could it be perhaps, that as we've advanced and perfected ways to falsify bullshit claims, it became increasingly difficult for him to make an entrance the way he used to.
Well if a being was truly omnipotent, it wouldn't need such a crude way of making it's existence known in the first place. It would be trivial to just insert that knowledge into our brain.
Nothing to do with this thread, but I like that series!
He's a deadbat dad. Produced all these children and never spends time with us.
Ah yes, because religious people on the whole are notorious for throwing up their arms claiming to be in the wrong religion and/or realizing there is no god.
Yes, but who isn't?
My meaning of life is to get into heaven by having faith and executing righteous deeds. The purpose of life is to worship God.
No because you don't need to be religious to act in a respectable manner, but I don't think I would be the same person.
What sort of God creates life for the purpose of being worshiped?
Why does god expect to be worshipped?
In any other walk of life if somebody tells you to worship them you'd think they were a complete dick; so why is it acceptable for god to act like such a dick?
I'm quite serious. The more I hear about god the more he sounds like a massive wanker. I just don't get the attraction at all; even if he does exist, just ignore the egotistical, power-crazed, sadistic prick. It's no wonder the devil fecked him off.
If you're listening, god, you're an arsehole.
In any other walk of life if somebody tells you to worship them you'd think they were a complete dick; so why is it acceptable for god to act like such a dick?
I'm quite serious. The more I hear about god the more he sounds like a massive wanker. I just don't get the attraction at all; even if he does exist, just ignore the egotistical, power-crazed, sadistic prick. It's no wonder the devil fecked him off.
If you're listening, god, you're an arsehole.
What happens to the Muslims who go to meet their maker but only remember 98 of his names?
I don't think it's a requirement to remember all his names; just that, if you do memorise them all you win a ticket to heaven. There are other ways to win tickets.
When you get to heaven you can redeem your tickets to bring a friend, or two, or three.
Killing a nonbeliever or non-Muslim is probably worth a ticket or two.
Killing a nonbeliever or non-Muslim is probably worth a ticket or two.
Yeah, its like orange Wednesdays. You kill one and then you get in and your mate gets in for free.