I'm only demanding this when somebody claims that "Abraham absolutely didn't exist". When somebody make such a claim, it will be justified to ask him to prove it.
Religion, what's the point?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
No stress or beef from me. Laters.
I was hoping against hope it seems.
You're back on the hamster wheel.
You're back on the hamster wheel.
Does that mean you concede that God might not exist? After all, you're making a claim that he absolutely does, and you can't prove it.
Can't we just chalk it up to faith and making him feel better? Maybe he read it in a poetry book?
Abbsta, rather than chickening out of the discussion, why don't you try to explain why it is you believe that the knowledge of water being a requirement for life is somehow evidence of the existence of god? To me it seems like a rather straight forward scientific theory; one which I'd fully expect the ancients to have recognised.
Regardless of what I think of the matter, to be this blind not see the difference, is quite an achievement for somebody who claims to follow a "scientific approach"..
Do you extend this privilege to every fictional character you ever came across? Are they all real to you ab initio, and then you just discard them as you reveal absolute proof of non existence?
Regardless of what I think of the matter, to be this blind not see the difference, is quite an achievement for somebody who claims to follow a "scientific approach"..
You're right, it's pretty funny considering Thales came up with his idea a thousand years before Muhammad.
Regardless of what I think of the matter, to be this blind not see the difference, is quite an achievement for somebody who claims to follow a "scientific approach"..
Clutching at straws again ? If anything, Thales's claim is even more general than the one in the Quran so it includes living things. Hard luck, eh ?
In any case, Weevils don't require water, so that water hypothesis is incorrect.
I'm sure even weevils are made up of some amount of water.
The discussion is irrelevant though. There's no evidence of god in the ancients' knowledge of the fundamentals of biology. Were these people supposedly incapable of making rudimentary observations of the natural world? Why would god be required to tell people that water equals life? All you have here is evidence of science.
The discussion is irrelevant though. There's no evidence of god in the ancients' knowledge of the fundamentals of biology. Were these people supposedly incapable of making rudimentary observations of the natural world? Why would god be required to tell people that water equals life? All you have here is evidence of science.
That all living things contain water, it isn't any proof of any sort, especially considering that there were people before Quran who said that.
On the other side, are virus living things? I think that there is a debate about this, considering that they don't have a cellular structure. Anyway, are there any organisms that doesn't contain water. I dunno to be fair, but wouldn't surprised if there are considering that now there have been discovered organisms that doesn't even require oxygen to survive.
On the other side, are virus living things? I think that there is a debate about this, considering that they don't have a cellular structure. Anyway, are there any organisms that doesn't contain water. I dunno to be fair, but wouldn't surprised if there are considering that now there have been discovered organisms that doesn't even require oxygen to survive.
In the Quran, humans are sometimes made from clay, sometimes from dust, sometimes from water and even out of "nothing". You have the choice.
All living things are made from water, except humans which are made from clay.
Gee, thanks for that, god, good insight!
What a retard.
Gee, thanks for that, god, good insight!
What a retard.
So is that it then? The sum of evidence for the existence of god consists of the phrase "We made from water every living thing. Will they not believe?" written in the Quran, which is in fact evidence only of a basic understanding of biology?
Come on, lads, surely you can do better than that. What's that shit?!
Come on, lads, surely you can do better than that. What's that shit?!
Nah, Allah had more important things to do, for instance this :
Allah loves taking the piss.Is that for real? I suppose it isn't a crucial part of Islam, eh, Danny? Just another of those examples of god waffling on about absolute codshit for no reason I guess.
Well tbh I can see where Allah is coming from, I hate it when people yawn, it makes me tired.
No, Satan makes you tired, duhr.
God only gives you the plague. The black death made Allah very happy with everyone sneezing in merriment in his honour.
Hadiths are full of funny stuff and these all come from Sahih Al Bukhari which is considered by many as the second most reliable source in Islam :
Satan urinated in his ears
Are we sure Mohammed wasn't a comedian?
Are we sure Mohammed wasn't a comedian?
Care to comment, Danny?
Bla bla bla mistranslation bla bla bla wrong interpretation bla bla bla perfect timeless wisdom.
God would not allow himself to be misinterpreted in something so important as the holy text.
If the above quotes are misinterpretations then how can anyone say with confidence that the whole lot ain't one big misinterpretation.
If the above quotes are misinterpretations then how can anyone say with confidence that the whole lot ain't one big misinterpretation.
Even if it's a sarcastic comment it's pretty save to say that if god exists he did allow his text to misinterpreted by 99,99999999999% of all religions and confessions but one.
No it wasn't sarcastic at all. God's lax attitude towards interpretation of his message is strong evidence of his own nonexistence.
God is supposed to be a fair and just being. How can that be if he allows his own holy text to be misinterpreted so? How can any human be expected to earn worthiness and a path into heaven in such impossible circumstances?
In this situation of ridiculous contradictions, errors and often teachings of outright immorality, the only reasonable conclusion for the human being, one who god supposedly in his wisdom gave the gift of the inquisitive mind, is to reject religion altogether along with the entire notion of god. How else is one to proceed?
If this entire theological mess that persuades us towards atheism in the complete absence of any other evidence of truth of logic is one of god's own design; how can one trust such a god as being fair and just?
If, on the other hand, none of the above was god's intention, then how can we expected to believe that such a blundering being as that he must be is anything close to being omnipotent?
Well that was exactly what I'm getting at, the possibility that all confessions and religions are wrong while only one is right in it's whole interpretation of god is absurd and extremely unlikely. It's much more likely that they are all wrong because it's all just made up bullshit.
Hadith is not "Hujja" for Muslims. Different sects in Islam use and believe in different Hadiths but no Muslim believe that anything but the Quran is infallible.
There are many discussions going between different sects in Islam, and between each sect themselves about the validity of the Hadiths they use and believe in.. There is only a small group that refuses discussion in Islam, and want to "Tukaffir" everybody who doubt anything they believe in (which is why they're called Takfeeriyeen).
Personally I only believe in the Quran as the infallible source for Islam. Everything else is up for discussion, and if there is a disagreement about it then we can look in the Quran for a clue about which is right and which is wrong, and if we can't reach a clear conclusion about it, then we use logical argumentation to try and see if a Hadith is right or wrong.
The research in Islam is actually quite fascinating if you get to know it.. Do you know that there is a new scholar who thinks that the Quran may have very well meant that God created Hawa (the woman) before Adam, and he gives very logical evidences for his claim, depending on the Quran itself? But all those issues are "not important", like I said.. Why? Because it doesn't matter which opinion is right, you're still a Muslim, and if you're honest about opinion (i.e. you really think that this is the correct opinion based on your personal conviction, rather than other factors), then it doesn't matter for your Islam.
So you believe that Satan pisses in peoples ear?
You're the one who only believes in (physical) scientific evidences and proofs, which is why I tie you to the rules you tie yourself to..
Yes, scientifically speaking, in the sense you're using to define science, there is no physical proof that God exists. But on the other hand, when you, who believes only in scientific evidences tell me that Abraham absolutely doesn't exist, you should be able to show a scientific (physical) proof for it.
No, I don't believe that Satan is a physical entity, if you're meaning pissing literally.
So why did Mohammed say that? Pissing is an awfully literal word.
He might have not said it, or people might have took it out of context, or there is a slight modification (because they couldn't remember it exactly ...etc.) that changes the whole meaning.. I don't know, and I don't spend much time analyzing it, because it's not important, and nothing like that is mentioned in the Quran.
It's one of those things that you don't spend much time in, because either way it won't mean much, if it was right (i.e. there is a context/interpretation for it), then it doesn't add much to my Islam, and if it was wrong, it doesn't affect my Islam at all.. Hadith can be wrong, and nothing in that is against Islam.. God only promised to protect the Quran.
By the way, the total number of Hadiths is very big, that almost everybody agree that the majority of the Hadiths we have is actually wrong.
But the Quran itself says also a lot of things which quite simply have been proven false. Case in point: Adam.
As Werewolf has shown above, Mohammed's said a lot of stupid things which were carefully verified from first person accounts. So it should be very difficult to take a book he's written seriously for any sensible person.
Personally, I don't believe anything in the Quran has been proven wrong. It's either down to bad interpretation/translation (I gave an few examples of those), or because people are claiming that something has been "proven" while it isn't, or what has ben proven is actually something different..
Mohammad has never written a book. Not a single Muslim said that Mohammad wrote the Quran with his hands (as far as I know).. It's his "sahaba" who did it off what he was saying.