Religion, what's the point?
- Thread starter TheRedFlag
- Start date
.Calling the brown person a ninja and the white one Mother Superior
Surely it's a choice
The same type of thing because women have been oppressed in christianity also, like in most religions. Women being inferior people is not exclusive to one religion.
In some countries yes in others no. In terms of being punished or ostracised by your community, id say its not as much as far free choice as it could be. Including religious indoctrination from a young age.
A woman taking control of who views her body is power
What the feck
A politician gets up and says he hears voices which are directing his political career and policy and he's not immediately carted off to a quiet, padded room to have a lie down. What a country!
Everyone lives in communities and deal with community pressure, and everyone is indoctrinated in some way as a child.
My opinion is, after someone becomes an adult, with whatever community pressures they have, they should choose how they look
Yes. If she is the one that makes that decision. If others make it for her, then is cultural enslavement. This is what happens in Islam and in some dedicated Christian circles. It's not a choice, it's an expectation.
And you calling her a ninja and bringing Hamas into it for no reason wasn't racist or Islamophobic because...?
People are really not exposed to community pressure or religious indoctrination to the same degree unless you live in la la land
Before I answer I do want you to set on an accusation because you can not be with race or maybe religion or with what sticks type of argument. Are you accursing me of racism or islamophobia?
Yes let's split hairs. Islamophobia is a form of racism. I gave you the 'or' because I'd seen you were pedantic about the nuances between the two.
You were being a twat and I don't care what your justification is tbh. It was a rhetorical question.
Also claiming to stand up for women's rights after a post like that is baffling.
Islam isnt a race or muslims. Or can't many modern Indians be (by the definition) be islamophobes despite having a similar ethnicity?
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No, racism is to have irrational hate for a people based on race. Islam is not a race, it is an idea, a religion, a philosophy. I can say feck islam while it's not directed to a race of people just as I can say feck white people and it not being directed to christiany. Race is one, religion is another.
One of my main points for women rights is to be against religion. It is not even questionable that most religions view women as inferior humans. Religious can hide behind "they want this" or "they are reserved" or any such nonsense that man will create to explain the subjugation of women.
No it isn't a race. Yes, people can have an irrational hatred of a group of Muslims. Yes, there should be a term for people who have this or who enact violence against people purely because they're Muslims, as much as some people want to contort themselves to say otherwise. Yes Indians can be (and often are) racist, usually more so than white people in my experience.
No, that poster was not making that previous post out of concern for women rights, as he is now trying to claim after the mask is now back on. Yes they are now likely happy that the conversation is on this, as opposed to the utterly ridiculous way they phrased their post, which, again, had nothing to do with concern for that woman or indeed others (and indeed barely referenced her beyond referring to her demeaningly as a ninja).
Out of interest, if I (a Non-Muslim) went out now and beat up a woman purely because she was wearing a hijab, what would that make me? What term would you sue to describe the underlying motivation for my actions?
Well probably an anti-muslim or lets use the word islamophobe. Its still not racial hatred. I still don't see why anti muslim wouldn't suffice
I agree its not race hatred. But then why are you posting a video from Hitchens railing against the use of the word Islamophobia at all?
Because he uses it as an example of a smokescreen to protect a religion from critism by making the accusation of race hatred.
He is correct in the sense that not just stupid ideas will be pushed, but that it will become a war of stupid ideas, like we see today. He wanted the left to stop it, yeah, he wanted the left to be about science and reason. It is lost IMO. The choice is now to avoid the far right if one is rational and little else. The moral equivalence of forcing women by culture to be inferior and feminism, is already there.
Today you will have people on the same side that think that gay people should be able to get married and also that they are an abomination (by the description of the religions that they protect) Islam hates gays in case it wasn't clear.
The left and the reality of today is a I love you, but I hate you. I respect women, but islam.
Why would a monster like trump ever have the chance to get in power? Can it be because of how disjointed and morally ambiguous things look? can it be because the alternative is just as morally broken and people are thinking: F you!
But he goes further to say that Islamohpbia should not be used at all? But then you've just said that you would use the term to describe me if I decided to beat up a woman cos of her hijab. So which is it?
The entire framing of the conversation has moved on from the fact the poster called her a ninja (and then pretended his concern is actually the women affected within Islam), insinuated that any Pro Palestine march is a pro Hamas march, filled with such ninjas and that if she were to be attending such a march, undoubtedly killing Gays as she glorified Hamas along with tens of thousands of others, the lefties would undoubtedly paint her as a good and rational person fighting oppression.
If you want to get into my personal view, I agree that some people hide behind the term to quieten down discussion on some of the genuine problems presented by Islam, or indeed some of the views of its adherents today. There is also no doubt in my mind that people like Hitchens (and others on here) hide behind this to articulate their genuinely bigoted views about Muslims, often latching on with glee if someone brings race into it, so they can shift the conversation away entirely to nuances on the term islamophobia.
Maybe he can take all the senators and try to wander in the Mojave Desert for 40 years
You have no idea what racism is to be perfectly honest. If you think it's only blind hatred then you won't see a huge amount of racism around you or within you.
Calling her a ninja for wearing the burka and invoking Hamas, for no apparent reason, while somehow championing women's rights is really something. You also don't seem to be allowing this woman, who you know nothing about, any agency. You're really not as enlightened as you seem to think you are.
Oh no Reddit/new atheism is back!
Because i believe the point was that Hitchens opposes how the word Islamophobia was introduced and intermingled with an accusation of racism or how you can only be opposed and critical of Islam if you're an irrational dimwitted bigot. But beyond that the word has become so mainstream, caught on and loosely used that its often a hollow term. However im fine with someone being labelled an Islamophobe or simply someone comitting anti muslim violence against someone for the crime of wearing a hijab, but in most cases its simply label being thrown at all people who critize or dislike Islam for a multitude of different reasons.
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It’s a perfectly legitimate term since there are obviously people who discriminate against Muslims solely because of their religion - which is a hate crime (at least in the US). All of this is of course very different than criticism of religion from atheists because it’s all fake and promotes absurd and discriminatory practices (mysoginy, homophobia etc.)
If you watch the video, she seems to be happy to be covered.
The thing is, wearing certain clothes is a statement. Literally the whole reason that GurSikhs wear turbans, is to stand out.
I wear a turban when I feel I need the extra symbol to myself to behave correctly
Do you want to do the "Western" ideology?
Everything IKEA, the perfect rug, perfect crockery that has bubbles in to show its hand made
My friend the issue is not with the one that dresses' correct is happy; but what happens to the ones that refuse the code. Or if they even have the choice.
Dude, I'm a Sikh who cut my hair at 22.ive been through all of that comunity pressure. You have a choice, but it is very different from the community, any club has rules and jxgkh
As a boy my brother. How is it for a girl? Does she have the same freedom or at least acceptance as you? You know she does not
Sikh girls wear plates and pony tails, it's far easier for sikh giels
Why? Generally curious how a random piece of clothing or accessory makes you feel better behaved or desire to behave. Couldn't you do the same just by telling yourself to do such without additional accoutrements?
Denmark passes law to ban Koran burnings.
As an atheist, I find this disturbing, why would anyone be banned from burning a silly book, full of lies?
As an atheist, I find this disturbing, why would anyone be banned from burning a silly book, full of lies?
So if someone is supporting gay marriage and people's freedom of religion at the same time then that somehow means that they both love and hate gay people because religion X, Y and Z hates gay people? Surely your argument can't be that fecking stupid?
I mean that's like saying the left is so disjointed and morally ambiguous because while they say they're against Trump they also say they support freedom of speech, which means they agree with every single word Trump has ever said.
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Some people just value the tradition and the cos play of course. If you don religious attire you know you are outwardly more representative of that religious tradition as well.
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You can do it if you want to. How you define it anyway. Cultures in what usually qualifes as the west are still different from each other to some significant degree.
It sounds like you're just referencing consumer culture which is not unique to the west. When the common person is wealthier they tend to spend. It goes for nearly all regions in the world.
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It's absolutely ridiculous, and speaks to one thing over all others in my mind: Islam's threats of violence make it different than all other religions, in the eyes of this law.
Burning the Koran is not being banned because the action itself is dangerous, or violates some right or law. One can burn a physics text book. Or the bible, or the tanakh or whatever the hell scientologists ascribe to. The only reason burning the Koran receives so much attention is that some followers of Islam may kill because they have been so personally insulted that enacting violence is the only suitable response.
I just wish people would be honest about these things. There is nothing islamophobic about pointing out that the teachings of Islam - interpreted in at least so mainstream as way as to push laws in f*cking Denmark - are so violent as to require society to change its behaviour to appease the potential murderers.
The list of idiotic and insane customs in religions is practically endless, but Islam can't have it both ways: it doesn't get to try and enforce its views on non-Islamists and also claim that any rebuke of that is not allowed in today's society (the attempts to make Islamophobia = racism = you're an person not worth considering).
As endlessly we say from my side of the fence: you are free to worship whatever sky fairy you desire, doing anything said floating deity proscribes but you don't get to change anything myself, or anyone else does because of it. It should really be that simple.