So in general they wouldnt? Genuinely curious.
Religion, what's the point?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
So in general they wouldnt? Genuinely curious.
Why would someone believe in the devil, if they didn't believe in God?
Some people who dont believe God exists do think the Devil is real though. Maybe not atheists though.
All supernatural beings are equally imaginary you would suspect.
Do they? Seems unlikely tbh.
Weird question.
This seems peculiar to me. As @Wibble said you wouldn't expect an atheist to believe in any supernatural beings. Do you mean theistic satanists or something like that or random people you've met?
It is highly important to remember when the vast majority of religions started out.
Thousands of years ago, most of the people were largely illiterate and uneducated. And were born and lived mainly in the same place. Most of them lived off the land where weather and harvests were highly variable. The nights were dark with only the moon to give light. So the stars and planets were much more visible to the naked eye. Back then, there was a much stronger need to believe in something.
So questions about the seasons, harvests, weather and the night sky were important and anyone who could provide answers had a position of power. Knowledge has always been power.
The most logical answer to most of the question was that some super being both created and controlled everything.
And if you worshipped and gave sacrifices to this super being, you would somehow benefit, both in this world and the next. In either heaven or hell.
So the 'wise men' soon realised that they were not only important because of their so called knowledge, but they were quickly able to exert control over the masses.
Thousands of years ago, most of the people were largely illiterate and uneducated. And were born and lived mainly in the same place. Most of them lived off the land where weather and harvests were highly variable. The nights were dark with only the moon to give light. So the stars and planets were much more visible to the naked eye. Back then, there was a much stronger need to believe in something.
So questions about the seasons, harvests, weather and the night sky were important and anyone who could provide answers had a position of power. Knowledge has always been power.
The most logical answer to most of the question was that some super being both created and controlled everything.
And if you worshipped and gave sacrifices to this super being, you would somehow benefit, both in this world and the next. In either heaven or hell.
So the 'wise men' soon realised that they were not only important because of their so called knowledge, but they were quickly able to exert control over the masses.
It´s called "gravity" because the word is very much descriptive for what it is describing. Gravity means weight.
Supernatural means something that cannot be explained scientifically. The notion is relative, of course, as something that is regarded supernatural (e.g. the rainbow, or thunder) at some point, could later be explained.
Yes, it's hard to gasp that something came to be out of nothing, regardless if you talk about God or big bang, probably because our understanding of the world is bound to our understanding of time; we cannot free ourselves from placing any event along a timeline. Our notion of eternity is very much connected to our notion of time.
But we have convincing evidences of big bang actually talking place, however, while the notion of god is pretty much based on nothing. People belive in god because they - mostly from childhood - are taught to do so. In its core, Christians are Christians because Jesus told - without any evidence - that he was God's son - and they believed him, because he was very convincing as he probably believed it himself. And I can imagine the uneducated people back then were not that hard to convince. Same story with Muhammed. He said - without any evidences - that God was speaking through him. And people sort of just took his word for it. None of them would have stood a chance gathering same kind of support in our modern, educated society (or you might wonder, when you look at Donald Trumps disciples..haha).
Yeah but i dont think they are atheists, I just THINK they dont belive in God as a higher being.
Edit: I think they may be Devil worshipper’s
You know most satanists don't actually believe in satan, right?
What do they believe in then because I'm not sure that's what it says on the tin ?
I kind of feel your average believer in Satan is going to feel they've been mugged right up there.
Most satanists are atheists... they don't believe in any supernatural being. The use of satan is symbolic, not literal. The Church of Satan's website actually says, "Satan to us is a symbol of pride, liberty and individualism, and it serves as an external metaphorical projection of our highest personal potential. We do not believe in Satan as a being or person.”
Edit: also, the Satanic Temple states on its website, “we do not promote a belief in a personal Satan. To embrace the name Satan is to embrace rational inquiry removed from supernaturalism and archaic tradition-based superstitions.”
Ya don't say.
It's good that they're that upfront about it but where do the real Satanists go and where do new adherents go to if they want to learn about the Satan they would like to worship?
Great post.
If you mean theistic satanists, they probably just meet up at someone's house, because they're ridiculously small in number.
Well I meant the Satanists because obviously wrongly I thought thats probably what they believed themselves to be but instead, the fake Satanists as you say have already nabbed the name Church of Satan. Boy I should imagine Satan is not going to be over the moon about that!
Atheist’s couldn’t believe in Satan because Satan was thrown out of Heaven by God, so believing in Satan would mean also believing in God..
What a daft statement, of course Theist/Actual believers in Satan believe also in God. Christians, sorry Theist/Actual Christians believing in God also believe in Satan. It's just a question of which one you worship/make sacrifices to etc etc.
All in all majority of people in the world are absolute crackpots
I have no idea what you’re talking about Oates, Devil worshippers would believe in both, yes and Christians would believe in both, yes, but atheists wouldn’t believe in either.
Anyway even if there wasn’t a divine being, isn’t the base concept of religion a good one, giving people a sense of community and sense of good in the world?
Wouldn't be atheist if they did.
Maybe what I did wrote came out wrong because I was kind of agreeing with you because in reality, literally speaking there can be no such thing as atheist Satanists as there can be no such thing as atheist Christians. Surely it follows that if you are a Satanist then you are a follower, an adherent of Satan, as if you are a Christian then you are a follower of Christ etc etc.
Just because you call yourself the Church of Some Such it doesn't follow that the people who meet at your some such church are genuine adherents of the label over your door.
The good news though as @Carolina Red says, there are a tiny amount of theist Satanists - which any of us, ok most of us would think is a bad thing but good for the rest of us. On the other hand just calling yourself a church that follows a particular but different way of viewing following Christ isn't necessarily a good thing either. It's a mixed bag of news today I'm afraid.
Are you okay?
Still struggling with the Shingles but then, that's not what you meant is it?
I'm getting a good laugh out of this discussion though.
Mmm you can’t get a decent satanist anywhere nowadays.
Yeah I agee to a degree you get people that attend mass and preach the word of the lord and wonder just how sincere they actually are..
Oh dear. I've heard shingles are awful. Definitely gonna try and get the vaccine for that when the time comes.Still struggling with the Shingles but then, that's not what you meant is it?
I'm getting a good laugh out of this discussion though.
I'm atheist and I believe in nothing supernatural.
What makes you think that hasn't been done? Science is a tool that anyone can use, it's not some thing in a lab that only atheists have access to.
If science could be used to strengthen the claims of any religion then theists would be the most pro-science group of people on the planet. Instead they've spent centuries arguing that facts which are actually supported by science like the big bang, evolution, the age of the earth etc, is nonsense because their old book knows best and the only proof they need is faith.
Yes, that's exactly what I mean, it seems that people can claim themselves to be anything these days and then some people like to lump the whole lot of them together. It's like that Westboro Baptist Church in the US. Some of them probably even believe they really are Christians but I'm afraid what they preach and try to spread isn't Christian at all.
It's like so many things that people who call themselves Christians do that turns people off from what the genuine faith says we should do and how we should live but then go out and cause hurt and harm. They use the trust others have gained and spoil it. But then as we see there are all sorts of institutions and organisations that we grow up trusting and find that some of their members abuse that trust too.
It always amazes me how well versed so many atheists are while I feel very lacking in a lot of theology but at the same time we do still share a few beliefs and could bring ourselves to stop taking the piss out of each other for a change. Still I can see so much harm does damage any chance of some taking that chance.
Surprisingly painful. Not sure there is a vaccine though, not heard of that one.
There is now for folks over 50. It's pretty recent though I believe, like within the last 5-10 years.
He’s funny that it’s even mentioned in the bible that the first thing Jesus will do on his return is throw the charlatans out of the chapel, it’s nearly like we had many of the same social problems even a thousand years ago as we do today.
Greed and corruption, we didn't invent it.
I believe the book and the sites you are referring aim to dig out negative things about Islam specifically, and then I think you have misunderstood my approach. I don't have anything specifically against Islam, and neither did I mention Islam in my original post. The main message in Islam (as in all world religions) is of course to be a good, peaceful person - not to go to war.
When I call Islam a war religion, I base it on the mix of religion and politics it is founded on. When Mohammed managed to gain control of half the Arabian Peninsula, killing Judes on his way, it's hard to call it a solely defensive act. Smaller Jihad tells people not only to wage war of defensive art, but also to expand and eradicate all unbelievers. The Caliphs that followed him where not only religious readers, but also political and military leaders, and - as you are of course aware of - they took control of all of Middel East, North Africa and parts of Europe. Of maybe that was just special military operations aimed to liberate the people ...
Again, my point is not to direct criticism at Islam specifically, but if you want to go to war in the name of Islam, you will find plenty of support for it in the Quran. But yeah, I am certainly not a bit fan of the fascist loving Catholic church either.
Generally, I don't mind people believing in god, but please spare me from people claiming to speak in his place.
All very well in principle and it sounds nice but that's not really the reality as I see it. If the bible was a tiny book of the things Jesus said, minus the acceptance of slavery as a normal part of life, I'd probably look on it more favourably but you only need to look at the history of the church in Ireland in the last 100 years to undermine any claims to it being a force for good.
Yes, all that is good, but it also gives people of sense of bad in the world, while they at the same time claim the right to define what that is.
My grandmother, e.g. was a fundamentalistic Christian, and while she had so much empathy in her heart, that she wanted all football matches to end in a draw (I´m not kidding, and she loved watching football on telly) - so no one had to suffer from losing - she had no empathy with Palestinian kids being killed when watching the tv coverage of one the Gaza wars some years back. "That´s what you get messing with God's people." Those where her words.
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