Dude that sounds legit. Awkward, but cool.
Religion, what's the point?
- Thread starter TheRedFlag
- Start date
Yeah I am looking forward to it. Bit nervous about the box 2 box meeting though where me, our CEO and a contract consultant will all meet with the Saudi delegation. Reason I am nervous is because my CEO is a quite foxy blonde lady always dressing in the most skin tight dresses you can imagine, same with the contract consultant.
These Saudi guys are top brass from Saudi-Aramco though, so I hope they are used to Western\Nordic customs.
1. Pics of the boss?
2. Yeah the high ranking Saudis seem to be more... cosmopolitan... in their customs than the average citizen. Bit of a “do as I say, not as I do” going on.
Ask them or do some research in advance to find out what times the prayers should be and fix your schedule around it allowing them time to make their way to and from prayer peacefully and preferably providing somewhere quiet for them to pray and possibly even mark out the direction to Mecca in the room. Find some local halal restaurants for the evenings and if serving food around the meetings try to keep it to easily identifiable things like fruit, cheese sandwiches etc. If there's things like pastries then do make sure they are safe for everyone, I remember the guilt I felt after one of my colleagues picked up a sausage roll in a meeting break assuming it was just another of the danish pastries they'd served with coffee in the morning and his shock when he realised it was meat, I tried to reassure him it was most likely beef and not pork but I don't think he ate a thing for the rest of the conference.
Greet them with Salaam or Salaam Alekum each day and throw in the odd Inshallah (God willing or with God's grace) at the end of sentences where you talk of future prospects and you'll be fine.
If they're anything like some of the Saudis I've met, Casinos and strip clubs is the way to go.
Thankfully NORWEP (a Norwegian governmental organisation for all the oil and oil-service companies) will be handling the general hosting, dining etc. I just have to bring them around and introduce them to the various players in the Norwegian oil industry at the convention.
Quick question though, is it some halal rules for shellfish and fish as well, or is that just meat?
Yeah I've hosted plenty of UAE, Saudi, Kuwaiti and Oman oil people in UAE, and the first question is nearly always "where the hookers and booze at?". This is somewhat a more official convention though, Sheiks, oil ministry and all.
I'm far from an expert but I'm pretty sure all seafood is fine, it's really only pork and pork byproducts like gelatin which are haram but some stricter rules do exist on food processing in terms of the cleansing of the equipment etc and on the slaughter of animals so you tend to have halal slaughterhouses for mutton, beef, chicken etc which is all to do with blessing the animal before death.
Do watch the timings of meetings around prayers though as you could lose the whole delegation and end up running hours late by the end of the day. I've done a number of conferences all over the Middle East and even when they have been organised by locals they always seemed to underestimate how late everyone would arrive and then half way through the first presentation we'd be cut short by the call to prayer and we'd lose 95% of the audience who would then drift back in their own good time delaying things further. If you plan for it things look a lot smoother and your stress levels can be kept to a minimum, though at least you're on home turf so you'll not be sweating your bollocks off in a suit and tie wondering whether the audience are ever coming back.
Last edited:
What's your point?
I met a good number of people in Iraq who didn't eat bottom feeders and crustaceans (lobster etc). Their seafood consumption was generally limited to fish with scales.
That a good bit of it could end up lost and changed in translation/transcription over time.
I mean, isn't that what I said?
Fish doesn't need to be halal.
Your post made me think about it some more and I think ultimately it is just an impossible thing to quantify and by extension speculate on. It's a given that it happens, I think most can agree.
I think the litmus test is to see what stories survive the longest and are most prevalent with the least amount of tyranny. That's tyranny of the many translators/editors over time and also tyranny of organised religions enforcing their own interpretations onto devout people. For example there are many stories in the bible that I'm sure even agnostic/atheist people would recognize as great stories with a sense of real human truth and meaning, or stories that are incredibly similar put into the 'holy books' of several different religions, and I think that's a pretty good gauge to use.
That is the problem isn't it? How can an organized religion be called divinely inspired when all of their greatest teachings are merely humanistic morals? If they are truly divine, they should be talking about who we are, what our purpose is, why is there so much difference in the world in every aspect, what we should do to gain that knowledge. And none of these questions are answered by saying, "God exists, he created us" -- that doesn't actually answer anything but raises more questions.
For example, take Sermon on the Mount. Nice little lecture on a bunch of morals about helping others, turning the other cheek etc. Some laws on adultery and social issues. That's Ok, Jesus was a very saintly person based on his teachings, but why are these moral lessons even divinely inspired or godly? Common sense is enough for any of us to realize this.
Same goes for Mohammed. My personal opinion is that there are some violent verses in the Koran which have been exploited, but there's certainly some nice poetry in there. Ok, Mohammed was a bit of a poet and he talked about certain ethics and rules to be followed. But apart from repeated injunctions of "worship Allah", what is there that is even divinely inspired that we wouldn't already know.
If something is truly divine, it should talk entirely about things beyond the senses apart from merely postulating an invisible God and a meaningless creation of myriad differences that cannot be explained. A bunch of moral codes is admirable and respectable, but doesn't warrant divine status.
Religion and the religious own the rights to morals. Did not you not get the memo?
If we are being honest it's just delusional. I wonder how often the devout have read their holy book cover to cover? And if they have, can they honestly make that claim with a straight face.
What do you mean by cover to cover? Muslims, even the less devout ones, aim as a minimum to finish the Quran from the first page to the last during Ramadan. Every year. But it's in Arabic so fewer will read the accompanying translation in their own language cover to cover.
However I agree with your sentiment. It's the dust gathering on our holy books (every religion) that is the cause of such confusion and losing the real message.
Did you reach for your firearm ?
Umm... no? I’d just flown 15 hours to Jerusalem.
oh, i thought you heard it in south carolina.
I think you mistake my sentiment Dumbstar.
My sentiment is that it is clear that morals do not come from religion, any and all of them, and in particular not the Abrahamic religions. But I imagine my thoughts/comments would offend some good people on here so I will tread lightly.
Depends on what school of fiqh they adhere to. There are 4 main Sunni schools; the Hanafi, the Maliki, the Shafi and the Hanbali. The first 2 schools don't accept shellfish as halal while the 2nd 2 schools are OK with it. The majority of Saudis are Hanbali so shellfish should be no problem for them.
I don't have plans to go pee on Anfield. Why should I attack anyone's religion no matter how silly I think it is?
Because things that are silly ought to be called as such
I am not sure if things you deem silly "ought" to be called as such. Does it really benefit you or the person? Do you really think anyone changed their beliefs by thinking "wait a minute, he's right! It's just a fairytale!" most adults that you talk to have done their research to believe what they want to. If they're willing to debate then fine.
Like I said though I don't talk calling someone's belief silly is attacking them (just immature) but there is a limit to what should be tolerated.
Because Anfield and Scousers don't impact everybody's day to day life because of it's insidiousness in society and culture.
Uh-oh The Premier League changed their picture to LBGT colours on facebook, and all the religious people went mental in the comments.
This.
Religion is hardly some harmless thing that can simply be ignored. It's completely fair game to challenge something that has so much power in the world.
Which religion is impacting you in such a way? Society is shaped by many factors you can't control all of them. What is in your control is believe what you want and voice your opinion but if you believe you should be free to crap on any religion don't complain when religious nut jobs protest against your vile immoral ways (not talking about you but in general).
Just treat people the way you wanted to be treated. It's simple
Right now in this country, religious-influenced politicians are still trying to control women's bodies even though we had a referendum that emphatically told them to butt out. How's about that?
I'm quite happy for you to laugh at me if I believe in utterly nonsensical fairy stories. But when you tell me who I can feck and marry you can GTFO.
If I lose my mind and start wandering around talking about magic men and trying to control people based on that, then I'm fine with being questioned on it.
In fact I am open to the fact there may or may not be a God of some description, however I believe all religions to be man-made and either made up to control, or abused by those seeking to control. I'm happy to be challenged on that view, so if it's a case of "do unto others" than I'm morally fine to question others.
In fact I am open to the fact there may or may not be a God of some description, however I believe all religions to be man-made and either made up to control, or abused by those seeking to control. I'm happy to be challenged on that view, so if it's a case of "do unto others" than I'm morally fine to question others.
Has Shamans really told who you can feck or marry?
Religion is an entity entirely devised by man to alleviate the fear of death and the unknown.
That's my opinion.
That's my opinion.
His bosses do and he supports them.