Religion, what's the point?

Cheers lads, the thread you suggest checking seems tempting to have a closer look at. I was sort of invited here as my post from different thread was quoted on here. Didn't know it's for the atheists so will happily pop there instead, from time to time.

EDIT: Skipped through first 2 pages and it's enriching with quite a few people knowing their onion.
 
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Never thought of this as an atheist thread, but rather a thread were religion can be openly debated and ridiculed as warranted (or desired) just like anything else in life.
 
Wasn't sure where to put this, but i figured this thread is probably better than the Trump one :)

 
For me religion has always been about 4 things. Control, money, power and finally a fear of death, the fear of not knowing what is next. Unfortunately there have been many people over the years who have used this fear to gain the first 3.

The idea of religion is not necessarily a bad thing. There is of course some good that is done by religion. I just wish people wouldn’t take everything as fact without any evidence to back up their claims other than ‘its in the bible’.
 
Carolina Red said:
Wait... why would Christians worry about surviving the apocalypse?
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Yeah good point!
These buckets are brilliant though. Each bucket has 1000's of servings, they can then be used as a toilet when they are empty and as a floating device when everywhere is under water.
That's the genuine selling point of them.
You need to go down this rabbit hole, you won't regret it
 
Grylte said:
Wasn't sure where to put this, but i figured this thread is probably better than the Trump one :)

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Donald Trump our Saviour! :lol: :lol: Crazy!

Beyond his real estate efforts, Bakker is also selling 28 ounce “warfare” water bottles, which he says filter out contaminants. Viewers can buy a half-dozen for $150. Don’t want that? You could opt for the “tasty pantry deluxe bucket” for $175, a prepper’s food service delight, with a claimed 374 servings of fettuccine alfredo, mac and cheese and more, boasting a 30-year shelf life. (Want 10,472 servings? That’ll be $3,700.)
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Source

If you are gullible enough splash out, you deserve to lose that money. :lol: :lol:
 
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17Larsson said:
Yeah good point!
These buckets are brilliant though. Each bucket has 1000's of servings, they can then be used as a toilet when they are empty and as a floating device when everywhere is under water.
That's the genuine selling point of them.
You need to go down this rabbit hole, you won't regret it
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This goes a long way to explaining how people are so easily duped by charlatans like Cheeto Jesus.
 
Jesus I read up on that Jim Bakker Fella. What the feck is wrong with people? And more importantly, why the feck did I get a university degree, I'm moving to the States tomorrow to start a career as a televangelist.
 
Carolina Red said:
That’s like, an awesome hard rock band name.
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Seriously, according to where the word "Hell" originated, The Bible, Hell is death, Christ died and descended into hell,
Loublaze said:
Death is release. The manner in which you die can be hell.
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According to the bible, hell is death, you are dead, you do not dream or anything you are dead. You go back to the same state you were in before you existed. According to the bible, Christ was dead for 3 days and 3 nights. That means exactly as it says. It does not mean anything near to the doctrine preached by the Catholic Church,. They teach that he went into hell and rescued some souls. Fact is that if he had done such a thing, then he was not dead. The bible said he was dead for 3 days and 3 nights. Yes he was in hell, or dead...
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/184-little-horn-of-daniels-sea-beast-the
 
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Im red2 said:
Seriously, according to where the word "Hell" originated, The Bible, Hell is death, Christ died and descended into hell,

According to the bible, hell is death, you are dead, you do not dream or anything you are dead. You go back to the same state you were in before you existed. According to the bible, Christ was dead for 3 days and 3 nights. That means exactly as it says. It does not mean anything near to the doctrine preached by the Catholic Church,. They teach that he went into hell and rescued some souls. Fact is that if he had done such a thing, then he was not dead. The bible said he was dead for 3 days and 3 nights. Yes he was in hell, or dead...
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The word hell is Germanic and its usage in English came over 700 years after Christ. I think the word made its way into the king James version but otherwise the closest thing to it is the description of a lake of fire.
 
Loublaze said:
The word hell is Germanic and its usage in English came over 700 years after Christ. I think the word made its way into the king James version but otherwise the closest thing to it is the description of a lake of fire.
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The word translated as hell in the bible is the same as the word translated as grave. The word used is "Sheol" or gehenna" It means destruction.
 
Loublaze said:
The word hell is Germanic and its usage in English came over 700 years after Christ. I think the word made its way into the king James version but otherwise the closest thing to it is the description of a lake of fire.
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Could be true but in the bible hell is "Death" "you are made from dust(the elements) and to dust you will return"
 
Carolina Red said:
Are you saying what I said about the Bible isn’t true, or what the Bible teaches isn’t true?
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Carolina Red said:
Are you saying what I said about the Bible isn’t true, or what the Bible teaches isn’t true?
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Yes, I am saying that what you said about the Bible is untrue.
Carolina Red said:
Are you saying what I said about the Bible isn’t true, or what the Bible teaches isn’t true?
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I am saying that what you said about the bible is not true. According to the bible, life is a gift, and it can become an eternal gift. There are only 2 after lifes, one is eternal life, the other is eternal destruction.
 
Im red2 said:
Yes, I am saying that what you said about the Bible is untrue.
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1. In the earliest books of the Bible, there was no Judaic concept of the afterlife. Note the silence on the subject when Abraham and Moses die.

2. In the Hellenic era books of the Bible, the Jews develop the idea of Sheol, which is similar to the Greek Hades.

3. In the later books of the Old Testament and in the Synoptic Gospels, the cursed and fiery Valley of Hinnom (Gahenna) is referenced as the place of punishment that awaits those who do not enter the Kingdom upon death. This is after Judaism had been exposed to the religion of Zoroastrianism.

4. Revelation describes a lake of fire that all damned are to be cast into to destroy their souls.

So... yeah, I’m not lying.
 
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Well, chalk up another God miracle according to a FB poster in Georgia... she had a heating & cooling crew out there for like five hours or so.

Michelle - "The AC is finally up and running!! I should sleep well tonight.....well as far as the temperature is concerned. Pain wise....not likely. That being said, I'm praising God for getting the AC up and running."
 
Ca$h.

As the $600,000 theft at Joel Osteen's Lakewood Church two weeks ago remains a mystery, the megachurch is offering a $25,000 reward offered to anyone who can provide clues.

The robbery occurred on the weekend of March 8. Lakewood told its 45,000-strong congregation in a message: "We were heartbroken to learn today that funds were stolen from the church over the weekend. This includes cash, checks and envelopes containing written credit card information, and it is limited only to those funds contributed in the church services on Saturday, March 8 and Sunday, March 9, 2014."
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That much in 2 days. That is from just one church, and because it is a tithe, it's tax-free.

Embezzlement of church and ministry funds is a serious matter. According to a report in the International Bulletin of Missionary Research, Christian leaders will embezzle an estimated $39 billion in 2014.
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I suppose they need the money to pay for this.

Sex

While you can’t put a price on the innocence of a child, you can put a price on just how much the Roman Catholic Church has paid out in lawsuits over the never-ending epidemic of child molestation wreaking havoc in its ranks.

According to Jack and Diane Ruhl of the National Catholic Reporter, who decided to research this particular topic, since 1950, the Vatican has spent a disgusting $3,994,797,060.10. That’s nearly $4 billion to keep things hush hush. That number may even be a bit conservative, as we cannot know for sure the agreed upon “under the table” amount.
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Check out Ted Haggard, Jim Bakker and Eddie Long.

Hate

Kingdom Identity Ministries is one of the largest suppliers of so-called Christian Identity materials that present a racist interpretation of Christianity. Their products include training books, pamphlets, and Bible study courses. Their mission to preserve the white race encourages white women to reproduce only within their race and encourages the superiority of the white male as interpreted from the Bible.

America’s Promise Ministries is a congregation that relies strongly on the literal interpretation of the Bible. This church also insists that Jesus was white and believes that all greatness achieved in the United States is attributed to the work of the white race and none other. Several members of this congregation have committed violent acts of terrorism and murder, including abortion clinic bombings, bank robberies, and shootings.

There are extreme religious movements emerging in the United States that strongly oppose LGBTQ rights, minority rights, racial equality, and gender equality. Radical Traditional Catholicism, whose ideology has been rejected by the Vatican, is a traditionalist movement comprised of numerous people who have been exiled from the church. This group is one of the largest anti-Semite groups in the United States.
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Carolina Red said:
1. In the earliest books of the Bible, there was no Judaic concept of the afterlife. Note the silence on the subject when Abraham and Moses die.

2. In the Hellenic era books of the Bible, the Jews develop the idea of Sheol, which is similar to the Greek Hades.

3. In the later books of the Old Testament and in the Synoptic Gospels, the cursed and fiery Valley of Hinnom (Gahenna) is referenced as the place of punishment that awaits those who do not enter the Kingdom upon death. This is after Judaism had been exposed to the religion of Zoroastrianism.

4. Revelation describes a lake of fire that all damned are to be cast into to destroy their souls.

So... yeah, I’m not lying.
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Never suspected you of lying to be honest. Isa 26:19 tells us about the resurrection of the dead.
1. Correct
In the earliest books of the Bible, there was no Judaic concept of the afterlife. Note the silence on the subject when Abraham and Moses die.
People, despite their wealth, do not endure; they are like the beasts that perish. Psalm 49:12 also many other bible verses confirm it.
2. Sheol was the abode of the dead (grave) Only towards the end of the Old Testament did God reveal that there would be a resurrection. Isa 26:19
3. Gehenna (the valley of Hinnom) was the place in Jerusalem where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast and burned. A symbol of the punishment for the wicked. Total destruction.
4. The lake of fire, or the second death, is similar to Gehenna, as it is total destruction.
 
Im red2 said:
Never suspected you of lying to be honest. Isa 26:19 tells us about the resurrection of the dead.
1. Correct
In the earliest books of the Bible, there was no Judaic concept of the afterlife. Note the silence on the subject when Abraham and Moses die.
People, despite their wealth, do not endure; they are like the beasts that perish. Psalm 49:12 also many other bible verses confirm it.
2. Sheol was the abode of the dead (grave) Only towards the end of the Old Testament did God reveal that there would be a resurrection. Isa 26:19
3. Gehenna (the valley of Hinnom) was the place in Jerusalem where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast and burned. A symbol of the punishment for the wicked. Total destruction.
4. The lake of fire, or the second death, is similar to Gehenna, as it is total destruction.
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I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying...

The books of the Bible were written and complied over centuries of time. If you look at them individually, based on the time period they were written in, you see completely different teachings about what happens after you die.

The Bible’s teaching about the afterlife evolves as the Judaic people come into contact with other religions in the region.

What you’ve posted here actually helps confirm that.
 
Carolina Red said:
I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying...

The books of the Bible were written and complied over centuries of time. If you look at them individually, based on the time period they were written in, you see completely different teachings about what happens after you die.

The Bible’s teaching about the afterlife evolves as the Judaic people come into contact with other religions in the region.

What you’ve posted here actually helps confirm that.
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Well I do know that Job believed in it. Job 19:25-27. Also Psalm 49:15, Genesis 5:24,Psalm 73:25. Daniel 12:1-43,Psalm 73:24-26, there are many more verses that show us that the Old Testament prophets knew that death of the body must not mean the end. The new testament confirmed it, in typical fashion, as the new testament is the confirmation of the old.
 
I feel like organised religion and literal interpretation are the real ills at play. The bible itself is basically a set of metaphorical and timeless truths told in story (with some babble that is arguably lost in translation, understandably), that you imagine would have been passed down generation to generation just by word of mouth before the written word became a thing. It makes me feel sad to see people dismissing all of the wisdom contained within it, because of some external issue. Kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We should be careful of being so readily dismissive of such stories and truths strong enough to last hundreds and thousands of years.
 
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
I feel like organised religion and literal interpretation are the real ills at play. The bible itself is basically a set of metaphorical and timeless truths told in story (with some babble that is arguably lost in translation, understandably), that you imagine would have been passed down generation to generation just by word of mouth before the written word became a thing. It makes me feel sad to see people dismissing all of the wisdom contained within it, because of some external issue. Kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We should be careful of being so readily dismissive of such stories and truths strong enough to last hundreds and thousands of years.
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Alternatively, it could just be babble conjured up by primitive people of that period and since much of it was word of mouth, it was also then likely sporadically modified as it passed through time.
 
Im red2 said:
Well I do know that Job believed in it. Job 19:25-27. Also Psalm 49:15, Genesis 5:24,Psalm 73:25. Daniel 12:1-43,Psalm 73:24-26, there are many more verses that show us that the Old Testament prophets knew that death of the body must not mean the end. The new testament confirmed it, in typical fashion, as the new testament is the confirmation of the old.
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Oh boy... you’re quoting from verses that are used in academic settings to prove my point.

1. Job flat out denies an afterlife several times: Job 7:7-10, Job 14, Job 16:22.

2. Psalm 73 is believed to have been written during the Exile, when Jews were introduced to outside beliefs about the afterlife.

3. To say Genesis 5:24 “And he was no more, because God took him” is speaking of an afterlife is an amazing stretch.

4. Daniel... obviously influenced by the Exile and the Jews introduction to outside beliefs, as the subject matter takes place during the Exile.
 
Vidic_In_Moscow said:
I feel like organised religion and literal interpretation are the real ills at play. The bible itself is basically a set of metaphorical and timeless truths told in story (with some babble that is arguably lost in translation, understandably), that you imagine would have been passed down generation to generation just by word of mouth before the written word became a thing. It makes me feel sad to see people dismissing all of the wisdom contained within it, because of some external issue. Kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We should be careful of being so readily dismissive of such stories and truths strong enough to last hundreds and thousands of years.
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I believe organised religion to be the cause of a lot of the evil we experience in our daily lives. Was Jesus a Catholic?, was he a Muslim? was he a Hindu? No, he was simply a man.. He told us not to judge others, or we would be judged. The only judge of man.. is Christ himself. If we judge someone who maybe has a different sin than we ourselves have, we convieniently skip past our own sin. As an example .. if we judge someone to be a homosexual, or anything else, and condemn that person in our minds for that sin. Then we are guilty of judging another person. For we all have lied at some time. That makes us a sinner too. We have no right to judge each other, that right belongs to the eternal judge.
 
Raoul said:
Alternatively, it could just be babble conjured up by primitive people of that period and since much of it was word of mouth, it was also then likely sporadically modified as it passed through time.
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Maybe.. not sure how 'primitive' we would be with the ability to pass down meaningful stories from one generation to another though. I don't doubt some of it will be lost in translation or difficult to apply to our time, but I think all that must be in the minority.
 
The Moses story is supposedly about a king or tribe crossing the Sea of Reeds (i.e. Lake of Tanis). Saw some history channel segment on it a while back and the religious scholars pretty much agreed. No idea if there's any legitimacy in that but it could just as well be utter bullshit like most of the book.
 
Raoul said:
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Well the Adhan when done right is one of the most beautiful sounds you can experience:



On the other hand, when it's done wrong...this is what used to wake me up at 5 every morning in Morocco:



So it depends I guess. Unless you've a fundamental problem with being explicitly told that God is great and Muhammad is his messenger five times a day. Which is fair enough, although church bells seem to convey pretty much the same message in its Christian form, just in a more understated way.
 
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Vidic_In_Moscow said:
Maybe.. not sure how 'primitive' we would be with the ability to pass down meaningful stories from one generation to another though. I don't doubt some of it will be lost in translation or difficult to apply to our time, but I think all that must be in the minority.
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You ever played the whisper game?
 
Went to Egypt for business recently and during a meeting this one guy's cell phone started shouting, then they all promptly got out their rugs and went ahead praying.

That was not what I was expecting. I just sat there not knowing what to do, and then they all got back up again and continued the meeting like nothing happened.
 
2cents said:
Well the Adhan when done right is one of the most beautiful sounds you can experience:
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This is true. I won’t lie, the first time I ever heard one (woke me up really early in the morning after a 15 hour flight) it caught me off guard and scared the hell outta me.

Once I heard it again later in the day, I realized it was a pretty sound.
 
SwansonsTache said:
Went to Egypt for business recently and during a meeting this one guy's cell phone started shouting, then they all promptly got out their rugs and went ahead praying.

That was not what I was expecting. I just sat there not knowing what to do, and then they all got back up again and continued the meeting like nothing happened.
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I was in the middle of buying a snack in Cairo when that happened to me. I know what you mean about feeling awkward.
 
Carolina Red said:
I was in the middle of buying a snack in Cairo when that happened to me. I know what you mean about feeling awkward.
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I will host the Saudi-Arabia delegation at the Norwegian Oil Convention end August. I sense that there might be some cultural confusion here.
 
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