Religion, what's the point?

Randall Flagg said:
I would say if religious people werent ridiculed on here you might see more of a 2 sided argument
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That is a good point, goes for all the political topics as well, there is a left wing basis on here. I suspect the same people bashing religion are the same people bashing the right.

As for religion, it is certainly something that I have struggled with. When I was the same age as most people on here, it was something I had no use for. However, now I am in my 60's I am starting to wonder if there maybe something in it. The closer you get to death, the more relevance it seems to have.
 
The people* who believe in ghosts get the poop kicked out of them on here too!


*i.e. ok, it's just me
 
There could be another thread titled :

How come that, after thousands of years what was once absolutely global, in a small part of the world at a particular moment, metaphysical beliefs disappeared ?
 
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What is it about atheists that makes them spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that they don't believe even exists?
What causes atheists to do that? . Maybe they challenge those who believe in God/Allah/Yahweh etc because deep down they want him to exist. They want that comfort that religious people have.
If an Atheist could prove beyond doubt to religious people that they are wrong, then the issue is off the table forever, and they would be free to go about their life.
In my view The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter known as the big bang! For Me, This equates to "Let there be Light" from the first paragraph of the Bible. The Belief that God created the Universe is as good an explanation as any other.
However, What I find harder to get My head round is Why God would be interested in this particular planet, which, lets face it, is like a grain of sand in the desert compared to the rest of the Universe
 
grahamo said:
What is it about atheists that makes them spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that they don't believe even exists?
What causes atheists to do that? . Maybe they challenge those who believe in God/Allah/Yahweh etc because deep down they want him to exist. They want that comfort that religious people have.
If an Atheist could prove beyond doubt to religious people that they are wrong, then the issue is off the table forever, and they would be free to go about their life.
In my view The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter known as the big bang! For Me, This equates to "Let there be Light" from the first paragraph of the Bible. The Belief that God created the Universe is as good an explanation as any other.
However, What I find harder to get My head round is Why God would be interested in this particular planet, which, lets face it, is like a grain of sand in the desert compared to the rest of the Universe
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They do it because the social norms advanced by large swaths of the population who do believe in God has a broad impact on society at large. When you have leaders (both political and religious) who are driven by religious views, it impacts everyone in society. Whether that's abortion, LGBT rights, women's rights, etc. People who don't hold such views are obviously going to push back if they think their lives are being in any way limited by what they perceive as a macro-sociological lie that has been invented by humans to control other humans.
 
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Dumbstar said:
This is a "Religion - what's the point" thread. So basically a thread for atheists and non-believers. Hardly 'any point' posting in this thread if minds have already been made up. What we need is a "The Religion" (not the poster, he's a twat :p ) thread where we can discuss, er, all the religions.
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Maybe a thread about @TheReligion - What's the Point? would be more interesting?
 
Raoul said:
They do it because the social norms advanced by large swaths of the population who do believe in God has a broad impact on society at large. When you have leaders (both political and religious) who are driven by religious views, it impacts everyone in society. Whether that's abortion, LGBT rights, women's rights, etc. People who don't hold such views are obviously going to push back if they think their lives are being in any way limited by what they perceive as a macro-sociological lie that has been invented by humans to control other humans.
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This is a good point. I do believe that people have used religion down the centuries to manipulate the masses and keep them under control. Lets face it, if God was proven not to exist and there was no threat of Hellfire etc. why would you live in poverty when you can go rob a bank and live it up. I do believe though, That if you take away these manipulators Religion offers a great deal of comfort and inner peace to a person and that is the whole point of any Religion.
 
Canuckred64 said:
That is a good point, goes for all the political topics as well, there is a left wing basis on here. I suspect the same people bashing religion are the same people bashing the right.
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You're right about that. The CAF has always been pretty left wing. We've had a few right leaning posters over the years, who were pitchforked out of here because their views were perceived as unacceptable to the resident lefties.

Canuckred64 said:
As for religion, it is certainly something that I have struggled with. When I was the same age as most people on here, it was something I had no use for. However, now I am in my 60's I am starting to wonder if there maybe something in it. The closer you get to death, the more relevance it seems to have.
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I think that's perfectly natural, especially later in life. There is a temptation to emotionally capitulate to the comfort of a construct where everything is ok and all of life's answers are provided to you gift wrapped with a ribbon on top. It's the main driving force behind why people get involved with religion in the first place.
 
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grahamo said:
This is a good point. I do believe that people have used religion down the centuries to manipulate the masses and keep them under control. Lets face it, if God was proven not to exist and there was no threat of Hellfire etc. why would you live in poverty when you can go rob a bank and live it up. I do believe though, That if you take away these manipulators Religion offers a great deal of comfort and inner peace to a person and that is the whole point of any Religion.
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I have an appreciation for the comfort and inner peace bit, although I'm sure most people who may entertain the idea of giving religion a chance would be turned off by the idea that they are participating in something that is made up, solely for the purpose of comfort and inner peace. In that case, why not pursue philosophies that advance the latter two that doesn't involve believing in deities ?
 
grahamo said:
This is a good point. I do believe that people have used religion down the centuries to manipulate the masses and keep them under control. Lets face it, if God was proven not to exist and there was no threat of Hellfire etc. why would you live in poverty when you can go rob a bank and live it up. I do believe though, That if you take away these manipulators Religion offers a great deal of comfort and inner peace to a person and that is the whole point of any Religion.
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Not believing in post death eternal punishment does not remove moral or societal rules. Atheists are not all bank robbers. And I'm not sure that, even if it were possible to prove the non existence of a god, that religions would cease. There is no need of evidence gods exist for people to worship them in the first place. I think, from my admittedly external view, that's what faith is all about.
 
Dumbstar said:
This is a "Religion - what's the point" thread. So basically a thread for atheists and non-believers. Hardly 'any point' posting in this thread if minds have already been made up. What we need is a "The Religion" (not the poster, he's a twat :p ) thread where we can discuss, er, all the religions.
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Grinner said:
Maybe a thread about @TheReligion - What's the Point? would be more interesting?
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Randall Flagg said:
he he

Yes
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Well if you made such a thread you'd have alot of people contributing in a positive way. The vast majority would define me as a hidden gem of the forum I'd imagine.
 
grahamo said:
What is it about atheists that makes them spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that they don't believe even exists?
What causes atheists to do that? . Maybe they challenge those who believe in God/Allah/Yahweh etc because deep down they want him to exist. They want that comfort that religious people have.
If an Atheist could prove beyond doubt to religious people that they are wrong, then the issue is off the table forever, and they would be free to go about their life.
In my view The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter known as the big bang! For Me, This equates to "Let there be Light" from the first paragraph of the Bible. The Belief that God created the Universe is as good an explanation as any other.
However, What I find harder to get My head round is Why God would be interested in this particular planet, which, lets face it, is like a grain of sand in the desert compared to the rest of the Universe
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Ok well what created God? God's God? Then who invented God's God?
 
1: The universe can't have come from nothing there must be a God

2: What created God then?

1: Nothing he was always there

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grahamo said:
What is it about atheists that makes them spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that they don't believe even exists?
What causes atheists to do that? . Maybe they challenge those who believe in God/Allah/Yahweh etc because deep down they want him to exist. They want that comfort that religious people have.
If an Atheist could prove beyond doubt to religious people that they are wrong, then the issue is off the table forever, and they would be free to go about their life.
In my view The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter known as the big bang! For Me, This equates to "Let there be Light" from the first paragraph of the Bible. The Belief that God created the Universe is as good an explanation as any other.
However, What I find harder to get My head round is Why God would be interested in this particular planet, which, lets face it, is like a grain of sand in the desert compared to the rest of the Universe
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Argument from ignorance fallacy...I didn't know what caused that lightning bolt, it must be Thor!

The Belief that God created the Universe is as good an explanation as any other.
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No, its not. Belief is based on evidence and all the evidence points out that we need not need an entity. and why would be as good an explanation as say, that Universe already existed??
 
Ivor Ballokov said:
1: The universe can't have come from nothing there must be a God

2: What created God then?

1: Nothing he was always there
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Basically, you got to the answer while being facetious. Well done.

@Raoul, this is one of the reasons why religious posters don't post.
 
Ivor Ballokov said:
Don't get mad, it's how God created me :(

But if God doesn't have to have a creator then why does the universe? It's just adding an unnecessary layer to the story.
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If the universe effectively created itself then maybe its god.
Or if there was no start point and time just stretches back into eternity then your playing with another concept thats pretty alien and above our understanding,
which requires a fair deal of supposition and faith to believe.

I find the concept of god (or some generic creative force) easier to understand and accept than the concept of eternity personally
 
Garethw said:
If i walk down the street this morning, see a stunning looking woman and think to myself "cor, I'd feck the arse off that" I'm breaking one of the Ten Commandments and unless I go to a confession booth I'm condemning myself to the fiery pits off hell.

Alternatively, if I walk into my office with an AK 47 and kill every single person in the building all I need do is head to confession and in the eyes of the church am absolved of sin and can happily pass into heaven.

The logic is seriously flawed.
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Indeed.

And the other flip side of killers/rapists getting into heaven because they repent ... is that their victims haven't got that..the innocent children murdered before they discover 'god', go to hell, because they haven't repented or given themselves to god.

If you believe that's a humane, caring, analytic, logical way of letting your life be led/done ...then... there's not much anyone can say to try and change your mind.
 
I'm a practising Sikh, so feel free to AMA if anyone has any questions about Sikhism! It is a major religion, but doesn't get as much attention as the others do, so if anyone has any Q's I'd be happy to try my best to answer them.
 
AXVnee7 said:
I'm a practising Sikh, so feel free to AMA if anyone has any questions about Sikhism! It is a major religion, but doesn't get as much attention as the others do, so if anyone has any Q's I'd be happy to try my best to answer them.
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Who writes the Guru Granth Sahib and is there a limit to how many are produced annually?

Have you been to Amritsar?
 
grahamo said:
What is it about atheists that makes them spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that they don't believe even exists?
What causes atheists to do that? . Maybe they challenge those who believe in God/Allah/Yahweh etc because deep down they want him to exist. They want that comfort that religious people have.
If an Atheist could prove beyond doubt to religious people that they are wrong, then the issue is off the table forever, and they would be free to go about their life.
In my view The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter known as the big bang! For Me, This equates to "Let there be Light" from the first paragraph of the Bible. The Belief that God created the Universe is as good an explanation as any other.
However, What I find harder to get My head round is Why God would be interested in this particular planet, which, lets face it, is like a grain of sand in the desert compared to the rest of the Universe
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They don't, for the most part. You'll get some atheists out there determined to disprove God's existence/religion as a whole but most atheists just go about their daily lives, not believing in a deity, and probably not caring all that much unless they're being actively suppressed by religion. Which does happen to be fair.
 
Cheesy said:
They don't, for the most part. You'll get some atheists out there determined to disprove God's existence/religion as a whole but most atheists just go about their daily lives, not believing in a deity, and probably not caring all that much unless they're being actively suppressed by religion. Which does happen to be fair.
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Was just going to post this. It was a bit of a strange statement, there's very few atheists who actively push their views onto religious people. There's a lot more religious people who push their views on to others in fact.
 
RedTiger said:
Who writes the Guru Granth Sahib and is there a limit to how many are produced annually?

Have you been to Amritsar?
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The Original GGS was written by Mani Singh (The chosen Sikh at the time) as dictated to him by Guru Gobind Singh. This was done using the Adi Granth as a foundation, which contained the compositions of some of the previous Gurus, and the rest was added by Guru Gobind Singh for completion. Since then hand-written copies were to be carefully and selectively distributed by Mani Singh.

With the advent of the relevant technology, the GGS is now printed in a very restrictive and regulated process by elected Sikh bodies, pretty much all of this is done in India. As for how many are produced annually, I'd imagine only a handful are printed each year for the requirements of new Gurdwaras. There's not a limit so to speak, but naturally printing is restricted to requirements.

I have been to Amritsar yes, though it's been a while since I last visited India. I will definitely go again sometime soon though in the next few years.
 
AXVnee7 said:
The Original GGS was written by Mani Singh (The chosen Sikh at the time) as dictated to him by Guru Gobind Singh. This was done using the Adi Granth as a foundation, which contained the compositions of some of the previous Gurus, and the rest was added by Guru Gobind Singh for completion. Since then hand-written copies were to be carefully and selectively distributed by Mani Singh.

With the advent of the relevant technology, the GGS is now printed in a very restrictive and regulated process by elected Sikh bodies, pretty much all of this is done in India. As for how many are produced annually, I'd imagine only a handful are printed each year for the requirements of new Gurdwaras. There's not a limit so to speak, but naturally printing is restricted to requirements.

I have been to Amritsar yes, though it's been a while since I last visited India. I will definitely go again sometime soon though in the next few years.
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Thanks for the reply :)

A few Sikh friends from my youth told me that they got special dispensation from the golden temple to allow them to cut their hair/beard, is this true? what is the reason for not cutting hair and what about nails?
 
LuisNaniencia said:
Was just going to post this. It was a bit of a strange statement, there's very few atheists who actively push their views onto religious people. There's a lot more religious people who push their views on to others in fact.
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I'm struggling to actually recall anyone I know who's tried to force a sort of militant atheism upon me. It's something that mostly exists in online circles...but tends to be in a more snarky, sardonic, piss-taking way than in expressing anything genuinely threatening or oppressive.

And besides, when you consider the atrocities that have been committed in the name of some religions throughout history and certain groups of people who have been oppressed in the name of religion...someone getting questioned on their beliefs is very tame by comparison.
 
RedTiger said:
Thanks for the reply :)

A few Sikh friends from my youth told me that they got special dispensation from the golden temple to allow them to cut their hair/beard, is this true? what is the reason for not cutting hair and what about nails?
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No problem...

Your friends were most definitely lying I'm afraid, most likely to justify themselves cutting their hair/beards. Keeping your hair is a mandatory for a Sikh, and no Gurdwara (not even the Golden Temple- which isn't even the highest authority) has the power to change this under any circumstance. That they specifically mention the Golden Temple makes me 99.9% sure they lying and not ill advised.

So keeping uncut hair is one of the 5 K's for a Sikh, and this is because we believe that this is the natural form of man, so we should maintain this design in respect to God. It is worth mentioning however Sikhism doesn't believe in creationism, so hypothetically if somewhere along the line we somehow stopped growing hair, it's the non-cutting rather than the having that is the key part. Having said that, it is vitally important for a Sikh to maintain his hair and thus a Sikh should wash his hair regularly and comb his hair twice on a daily basis to maintain cleanliness. As for nails, Sikhs only cut the dead part of your nails extruding from your fingertips, not the proximal end (would be extremely painful!). Although the hair we see is technically dead also, it is not impractical to maintain long hair, but it is impractical and unhygienic to maintain very long nails. So the major difference is for functional significance.
 
Randall Flagg said:
Is there anyone who is actually religious posting in this thread or are they all scared away?
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Like Penna I've never wanted to try and push my beliefs down anyone's throats but I sometimes get the feeling that the thread doesn't belong to people of religion. If someone asks me a question I've tried to answer helpfully but open ridicule isn't my idea of a good time. I've nothing against you all, most of you if not all are lovely people I enjoy spending time with. People can be good and religious, and also good and not religious but blaming all ills supposedly on religious people who I would say cannot really be religious is a bit repetitive lol. I don't want your money or your arses. If I stopped being a christian would that make me more trustworthy?
 
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