Religion, what's the point?

Thought I'd just pop in this thread and read the last few pages and :wenger:

I do not believe in any type of God , tooth fairies, ghosts, Santa Claus, little green men or supernatural beings of a higher intelligence. This is my own personal "belief" and until someone can actually prove the contrary which so far no-one in the history of mankind has been able to do, the probability is that my point of view will not change.

I have no objection to other people believing in whatever religion they choose to follow or other beliefs as long as it does not affect me, my family, my friends or anyone or anything I am associated to, if it provides them with comfort or whatever reason they choose to believe in but not to try to influence other people and certainly not to destroy people's lives in their pursuit of their ends.

What completely escapes me is why people in whatever faith they follow actually believe in the Quran, Bible or any other religious writings whereas these are clearly man-made accounts and religion itself is a man-made invention.
 
I know that thread earlier in the year was a bit of a wild one, but I'll gladly say it again - Islam still scares the shite out of me.

Paul the Wolf said:
What completely escapes me is why people in whatever faith they follow actually believe in the Quran, Bible or any other religious writings whereas these are clearly man-made accounts and religion itself is a man-made invention.
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Because mommy and daddy told them it was true. Parental indoctrination aimed at the easily swayed by the people they naturally trust the most.
 
Uzz said:
I'd be scared too, if I was narrow minded and supported Liverpool.
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:lol: Following one is crazy, but following the other is lunacy. All religions are cancer, but some cancers are worse than others.
 
Funnily enough, religion is the one thing that the Mail hasn't claimed to be causing cancer.
 
Tommy said:
I know that thread earlier in the year was a bit of a wild one, but I'll gladly say it again - Islam still scares the shite out of me.



Because mommy and daddy told them it was true. Parental indoctrination aimed at the easily swayed by the people they naturally trust the most.
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As youngsters we all seem to be brainwashed into believing what people want us to believe in. I was brought up a protestant and went to a private school where we attended a cathedral three times a week for morning service and one of our teachers was a vicar - after being able to think for myself having experienced life and knowledge as I gradually got older it became clear to me that all we had been "taught" regarding religions was a kind of brainwashing. if I curse now or say "Oh God" or "Jesus Christ" does not mean I believe but that I cannot stop myself from using these words and they slip out.

By the way, I will not try to convert you from supporting Liverpool

PS I am British ("protestant")and married a French catholic girl many years ago and we still haven't had a holy war between us.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Who else would you blame for those wars? That they just happened on it's own? Yes, it is common knowledge that Cold War was a serious root cause of Afghanistan and Vietnam. I don't think anyone argues against that anymore, do that?




I think you lost track of distinction between a war and a act of terrorism. If you do your research properly, you'll find that ISIS originated under Saddam and even currently most ISIS leaders were officers under Saddam. Irrespective, Saddam was a megalomaniac and deserved to be overthrown. I certainly don't agree with 'US created ISIS' argument at all. It fundamentally ignores everything that was already wrong in that region.



This is the era of social media and instant networking. Blaming 'lack of TV/newspaper time/ is quite lame as any other excuse goes. If was a serious effort, then I'm sure the hurdles you mention can be easily overcome.



What's your point here? That we don't give them mean headlines means we should ignore this too? Yes, VHP/Bajrang Dal are as bad as ISIS and should have no place in modern society. Maybe not in public, but these are oft debated in desi convo (which I think you need to be in, btw) as it is a more regional debate opposed to ISIS. Yes, people do kill for reasons other than religion, but that no way impact what they do in name of religion.



Whether you acknowledge it or not, Islamophobia is a growing and a realistic problem. There is a growing culture where any muslim or person with a muslim name or even any person of Indian/Pakistani/Arabic looks gets pulled for extra security checks or gets profiled. If this trend is not curtailed right away, then yes, I believe the distrust would extend to all muslim and other brown skinned people in general.



It is always about power and control. Religion is just the tool.
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[/QUOTE]


1) terrorism is an act of war. its just people with less resources against people with many. its guerilla warfare. i think its you that doesnt realize it.

if the current leader of ISIS was 'made' in a US prison and the current president of the united states is taking blame for the creation of ISIS i would take their word for it not yours. Who are you to say or anybody else whats wrong with a region?? isnt that the premise that the US uses to invade countries - theres something wrong we are going to fix it. there was nothing like ISIS before. its been created through western interference whether you wake up to that fact or not is another thing.

please explain to me if a region needs to be 'fixed' then why hasnt the US attacked saudi arabia. isnt that a depraved society by your standards. its because all this is about vested interests and the west choses its targets according to those interests not some moral code.

2) this also the era of 24 hr news channels. social media isnt everything. you are very naive if you think the media and the 24hr news have no role to play in creating a bias and not showing how many muslims are actually protesting against isis.


3) secondly, my point is that there is violence in men therefore there is violence in religion. it has more to do with the nature of man rather than religion itself. thats why such aggression and violence transcends all religions even the ones that are considered the most peaceful such as buddhism. thats why this isnt a relgion issue but issue of human flaw.

4) ofcourse islamophobia is growing. thats because there are a lot of daft people in this world who cant think for themselves. there is no cure for being closed minded. not even education can change it.

5) religion is just a tool are my words..what are you trying to tell me using what i already told you?
 
shivab said:
1) terrorism is an act of war. its just people with less resources against people with many. its guerilla warfare. i think its you that doesnt realize it.

if the current leader of ISIS was 'made' in a US prison and the current president of the united states is taking blame for the creation of ISIS i would take their word for it not yours. Who are you to say or anybody else whats wrong with a region?? isnt that the premise that the US uses to invade countries - theres something wrong we are going to fix it. there was nothing like ISIS before. its been created through western interference whether you wake up to that fact or not is another thing.

please explain to me if a region needs to be 'fixed' then why hasnt the US attacked saudi arabia. isnt that a depraved society by your standards. its because all this is about vested interests and the west choses its targets according to those interests not some moral code.

2) this also the era of 24 hr news channels. social media isnt everything. you are very naive if you think the media and the 24hr news have no role to play in creating a bias and not showing how many muslims are actually protesting against isis.


3) secondly, my point is that there is violence in men therefore there is violence in religion. it has more to do with the nature of man rather than religion itself. thats why such aggression and violence transcends all religions even the ones that are considered the most peaceful such as buddhism. thats why this isnt a relgion issue but issue of human flaw.

4) ofcourse islamophobia is growing. thats because there are a lot of daft people in this world who cant think for themselves. there is no cure for being closed minded. not even education can change it.

5) religion is just a tool are my words..what are you trying to tell me using what i already told you?
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1) I simply see no point debating the origin of IS. In its present form, it needs to be stopped and that's it. All your counter-arguments only serve to confuse the issue.

Wars usually don't have "Person A caused it" clear cut motive. It is even arguable the Treaty of Versailles and War Guilt clauses that lead to WW2, but it was Adolf Hitler who takes focus of the blame. Quite similar here. IS should take the focus here and be stopped.

2) I never said news channels are redundant. Just that Social Media is a equally capable outlet. Blaming new channels for not giving importance is quite a lme excuse. If it needs to be explained better, there are various other means to do so. It just isn't being done.

3) Again, what's the point of a philosophical debate? We are arguing on a specific threat of ISIS. And tbh, giving 'humans are inherently evil' as an excuse to a ISIS attack is so not correct.

4) Read Pt. 2 above. If more efforts were made to distinguish moderates from jihadis it will definitely help.

5) I had no idea why you mentioned that line in first place. Anyways I agree to that sentiment.
 
RexHamilton said:
Intelligent man wins argument with idiots.
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Aslan seems highly educated and looks always good on debates. Haven't heard for him before he wrote that book for Jesus, but since then he looks to have become mainstream, and every time I hear him, he looks good.
 
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1) terrorism is an act of war. its just people with less resources against people with many. its guerilla warfare. i think its you that doesnt realize it.

if the current leader of ISIS was 'made' in a US prison and the current president of the united states is taking blame for the creation of ISIS i would take their word for it not yours. Who are you to say or anybody else whats wrong with a region?? isnt that the premise that the US uses to invade countries - theres something wrong we are going to fix it. there was nothing like ISIS before. its been created through western interference whether you wake up to that fact or not is another thing.

please explain to me if a region needs to be 'fixed' then why hasnt the US attacked saudi arabia. isnt that a depraved society by your standards. its because all this is about vested interests and the west choses its targets according to those interests not some moral code.

2) this also the era of 24 hr news channels. social media isnt everything. you are very naive if you think the media and the 24hr news have no role to play in creating a bias and not showing how many muslims are actually protesting against isis.


3) secondly, my point is that there is violence in men therefore there is violence in religion. it has more to do with the nature of man rather than religion itself. thats why such aggression and violence transcends all religions even the ones that are considered the most peaceful such as buddhism. thats why this isnt a relgion issue but issue of human flaw.

4) ofcourse islamophobia is growing. thats because there are a lot of daft people in this world who cant think for themselves. there is no cure for being closed minded. not even education can change it.

5) religion is just a tool are my words..what are you trying to tell me using what i already told you?[/QUOTE]

Thank you. Unfortunately there are too many idiots in this thread and I wonder if they have any IRL muslim friends or even friends at all.
 
Hellboy said:
1) terrorism is an act of war. its just people with less resources against people with many. its guerilla warfare. i think its you that doesnt realize it.

if the current leader of ISIS was 'made' in a US prison and the current president of the united states is taking blame for the creation of ISIS i would take their word for it not yours. Who are you to say or anybody else whats wrong with a region?? isnt that the premise that the US uses to invade countries - theres something wrong we are going to fix it. there was nothing like ISIS before. its been created through western interference whether you wake up to that fact or not is another thing.

please explain to me if a region needs to be 'fixed' then why hasnt the US attacked saudi arabia. isnt that a depraved society by your standards. its because all this is about vested interests and the west choses its targets according to those interests not some moral code.

2) this also the era of 24 hr news channels. social media isnt everything. you are very naive if you think the media and the 24hr news have no role to play in creating a bias and not showing how many muslims are actually protesting against isis.


3) secondly, my point is that there is violence in men therefore there is violence in religion. it has more to do with the nature of man rather than religion itself. thats why such aggression and violence transcends all religions even the ones that are considered the most peaceful such as buddhism. thats why this isnt a relgion issue but issue of human flaw.

4) ofcourse islamophobia is growing. thats because there are a lot of daft people in this world who cant think for themselves. there is no cure for being closed minded. not even education can change it.

5) religion is just a tool are my words..what are you trying to tell me using what i already told you?
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Thank you. Unfortunately there are too many idiots in this thread and I wonder if they have any IRL muslim friends or even friends at all.[/QUOTE]

Who in this thread are you aiming your accusation of idiots at?
 
People who assimilates Islam to terrorism when 99% of muslims worldwide are honest men trying to make both ends meet.

There is islamic terrorism but before there was anarchist terrorism, communist terrorism or even jewish communism. Terrorism has no religion, and people constantly lumping Islam and terrorism together are hateful idiots with no grip of geopolitics or history and even less religion.
 
Hellboy said:
People who assimilates Islam to terrorism when 99% of muslims worldwide are honest men trying to make both ends meet.

There is islamic terrorism but before there was anarchist terrorism, communist terrorism or even jewish communism. Terrorism has no religion, and people constantly lumping Islam and terrorism together are hateful idiots with no grip of geopolitics or history and even less religion.
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Yes agreed, it is purely human beings being evil. The problem is that these terrorists are stating that they are acting on behalf of the "Islamic State". The problem happens if Muslims support the acts of these terrorists. People of all religions and people who do not believe in a god or gods should unite against these terrorists. In an ideal world people of all beliefs , nations and colours all live together peacefully. Unfortunately it never has happened and never will happen.
 
Hellboy said:
People who assimilates Islam to terrorism when 99% of muslims worldwide are honest men trying to make both ends meet.

There is islamic terrorism but before there was anarchist terrorism, communist terrorism or even jewish communism. Terrorism has no religion, and people constantly lumping Islam and terrorism together are hateful idiots with no grip of geopolitics or history and even less religion.
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So, do you think those you call terrorists are wrong in what they are doing from an Islamic point of view? I don't mean what the media and hipsters call "true Islam" but the real Islam of the prophet Mohammad? Take Charlie Hebdo for example, what do think Mohammad's reaction would have been? I'm not asking for what the liberal media would try and argue, but for an honest opinion.

In my opinion the way people distinguish between Islamic terror and "true Islam" is a bit like saying Jesus wasn't a Christian. In the same way Christians ask "What Would Jesus Do?", wouldn't Muslims look to Mohammad for guidance?
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Yes agreed, it is purely human beings being evil. The problem is that these terrorists are stating that they are acting on behalf of the "Islamic State". The problem happens if Muslims support the acts of these terrorists. People of all religions and people who do not believe in a god or gods should unite against these terrorists. In an ideal world people of all beliefs , nations and colours all live together peacefully. Unfortunately it never has happened and never will happen.
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Like someone said : "When it comes to money everyone is of the same religion". It will never be happen because there are a lot of ramifications in and around terrorism, a lot of resources and a lot of money at stake. Religion is just there for people to hate and talk about, but the problem is deeper than religion. Don't forget that the "islamic terrorism" blueprint is inspired and funded by extremists in Qatar and Saudi Arabia who are backed by USA and allies. These two countries have always hated more secular arab countries and leaders like Saddam, Assad or Kaddafi.

redmeister said:
So, do you think those you call terrorists are wrong in what they are doing from an Islamic point of view? I don't mean what the media and hipsters call "true Islam" but the real Islam of the prophet Mohammad? Take Charlie Hebdo for example, what do think Mohammad's reaction would have been? I'm not asking for what the liberal media would try and argue, but for an honest opinion.

In my opinion the way people distinguish between Islamic terror and "true Islam" is a bit like saying Jesus wasn't a Christian. In the same way Christians ask "What Would Jesus Do?", wouldn't Muslims look to Mohammad for guidance?
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A big portion of these terrorists have all the same profile : Third generation of North African immigrants / ex drug smugglers, young delinquents ie. fragile people living in ghettos who have nothing to lose. This was verified in the previous two attacks in Paris this year. These people are brainwashed and then used to perpetrate odious crimes in the name of Islam when themselves are just puppets and never read the holy book in their life. In Islam "killing an innocent is like killing the entire humanity".

I think, and I'm not even a practicing muslim, that Mohammed would not have bat an eye for the portraits and would just have said : "May god guide them".
 
Hellboy said:
Like someone said : "When it comes to money everyone is of the same religion". It will never be happen because there are a lot of ramifications in and around terrorism, a lot of resources and a lot of money at stake. Religion is just there for people to hate and talk about, but the problem is deeper than religion. Don't forget that the "islamic terrorism" blueprint is inspired and funded by extremists in Qatar and Saudi Arabia who are backed by USA and allies. These two countries have always hated more secular arab countries and leaders like Saddam, Assad or Kaddafi.



A big portion of these terrorists have all the same profile : Third generation of North African immigrants / ex drug smugglers, young delinquents ie. fragile people living in ghettos who have nothing to lose. This was verified in the previous two attacks in Paris this year. These people are brainwashed and then used to perpetrate odious crimes in the name of Islam when themselves are just puppets and never read the holy book in their life. In Islam "killing an innocent is like killing the entire humanity".

I think, and I'm not even a practicing muslim, that Mohammed would not have bat an eye for the portraits and would just have said : "May god guide them".
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But isn't what you've just done exactly what Christians do when cherry picking from the Bible in order to try and get Christianity to fit with secular morality?

In my opinion, what apologists get wrong is they think criticism of Islam is a criticism of Muslims. They use what modern morality to shape what they want to believe what "true Islam" is, and use the fact the majority of Muslims are good, peace loving people to support this. But the majority doesn't necessarily represent the truth. The inspiration for the average Muslim living in Manchester being a good person isn't Islam. They cherry pick certain passages in order to convince themselves they are representing Islam in the exact same way Christians and people of all religions do. Islams is a bronze/iron age man made religion, so is it really going to portray a morality in keeping with what we'd expect today? Non homophobic Christians and Muslims will find passages to support this stance in their religious texts. But the inspiration to find those passages didn't come from the religions themselves, but from rational, secular morality. You can't expect ignorant, iron age people to have the same opinions of what is right and wrong as we do now. But at the same time these text are supposedly infallible. Rather than accept this, people try and cherry pick certain lines and passages to talk their way around the fact these texts say some pretty horrendous things. But that cherry picked version isn't the truth, even if 99% if an religion claim it is. 500 years ago 100% of the religion would have claimed the opposite to represent the truth.

I understand the intentions or people like yourself are good and you truly believe what you are saying , but at the same time, by holding that position, you are providing the religion with protection from much needed scrutiny. I suspect you genuinely believe that Mohammad wouldn't bat an eyelid over the portraits and it's because we've been encouraged to believe so called radical Islam is not representative of true Islam and therefore it would make no sense that the perfect Muslim would kill people and support the killing of people for simply insulting him. Sadly you are wrong.

Most Muslims are good, honest people, but don't think it's because of Islam. Most Christians are good honest people, but don't think it's because of Christianity. Most Jews are good honest people, but don't think it's because of Judaism. Religions have to adapt to survive and in doing so have to try and fit with modern, secular morality. So the cherry picking process starts. But if left to their own devices, these religions would have the world in a far worse state.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Thank you. Unfortunately there are too many idiots in this thread and I wonder if they have any IRL muslim friends or even friends at all.
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Who in this thread are you aiming your accusation of idiots at?[/QUOTE]
im aiming at all those who are talking about reforming islam. theres always an undercurrent of islamophobia in what they are saying.
 
shivab said:
Who in this thread are you aiming your accusation of idiots at?
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im aiming at all those who are talking about reforming islam. theres always an undercurrent of islamophobia in what they are saying.[/QUOTE]

Every religion needs reforms. If they do not adapt to the changing times, then they would be a source of trouble. It's not just religion. See 1st Amendment of US constitution.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
1) I simply see no point debating the origin of IS. In its present form, it needs to be stopped and that's it. All your counter-arguments only serve to confuse the issue.

Wars usually don't have "Person A caused it" clear cut motive. It is even arguable the Treaty of Versailles and War Guilt clauses that lead to WW2, but it was Adolf Hitler who takes focus of the blame. Quite similar here. IS should take the focus here and be stopped.

2) I never said news channels are redundant. Just that Social Media is a equally capable outlet. Blaming new channels for not giving importance is quite a lme excuse. If it needs to be explained better, there are various other means to do so. It just isn't being done.

3) Again, what's the point of a philosophical debate? We are arguing on a specific threat of ISIS. And tbh, giving 'humans are inherently evil' as an excuse to a ISIS attack is so not correct.

4) Read Pt. 2 above. If more efforts were made to distinguish moderates from jihadis it will definitely help.

5) I had no idea why you mentioned that line in first place. Anyways I agree to that sentiment.
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2) the world leaders and decision makers are not sitting on twitter and facebook...they are not of our generation. they watch the news and read newspapers..they are grown up people. the news media is most important when it comes to making an impression on that target audience.

you are just stating randomly that not enough is being done based on what you feel. go read about it. you have no idea what you are talking about
read this ..http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists...uslims-havent-condemned-isis-think-again.html

3) its not a philosophical debate about ISIS its about religion. I think on that we agreed. religion is a tool and in this case not the root cause for this unrest.
 
Hellboy said:
People who assimilates Islam to terrorism when 99% of muslims worldwide are honest men trying to make both ends meet.

There is islamic terrorism but before there was anarchist terrorism, communist terrorism or even jewish communism. Terrorism has no religion, and people constantly lumping Islam and terrorism together are hateful idiots with no grip of geopolitics or history and even less religion.
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think it is more people are confused and ingnorant rather than being racial.
 
@fishfingers15



im not denying that all religion needs reform. unfortunately the debate here is from the view point of ISIS and therefore islam is being dragged into it. this debate is no more about religion in general but iits become about if religion (read islam) is the root cause for fundamentalism (read ISIS).

I dont think people understand the geo political reasons for the creation of ISIS nor do the realize that a few are manipulating the many using religion as a tool. instead of blaming the people who are doing that we blame religion which surprises me. clearly if fundamentalism exists in all religions - Buddhism to Hinduism to Christianity to Islam then it has more to do with human nature rather than religion itself. over zealous nationalism also exists but we dont bemoan the existence of nations. so why blame religion?
 
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Nationalism has resulted in way more deaths than any religion, let's reform that first.
 
Mosquitos account for far more deaths lets deal with that first ;)

Or perhaps we can deal with more than one problem at a time? ISIS are a big problem even if there are others and religion is part of the problem even if all religion isn't directly.
 
marukomu said:
What do muslim parents do if their children say they don't want to believe?
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I doubt it's much different to what a devout Catholic parent would do when told by their child they don't want to believe - At least not in the Western world.
 
Stanzin Lama said:
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I remember watching that and he claimed in the segment that in countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, women are 100% equal to men. You don't even need to be a political scholar or feminist, to know that's obviously massive bullshit.

"Intelligent man" indeed.
 
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Aslan is one of those people like Joel Ostein(an evangelical pastor) that people think because he's not fire and brimstone, speaks in a calm tone unlike some other religious wackos, he must be one of the "good ones", when he spews inaccurate nonsense like most of the other nutjobs. He just doesn't froth at the mouth while doing so.
 
Thinking about it after reading the blog I linked to, the bottom line is that no religion is problematic in the context of a secular state. It's when you have governments running countries in accordance with a religious doctrine that it all gets fecked up. The seperation of church and state is absolutely critical for an enlightened and tolerant society, no matter which religion is dominant in that particular country. So it's unfair to blame Islamic fundamentalism on the specifics of the scriptures they adhere to.
 
Seveneric said:
I remember watching that and he claimed in the segment that in countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, women are 100% equal to men. You don't even need to be a political scholar or feminist, to know that's obviously massive bullshit.

"Intelligent man" indeed.
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Hmmm. Before I answer this, can you spell this bolded bit out for me? What specific factual issues do you have with Aslan's claim here?

Pogue Mahone said:
Thinking about it after reading the blog I linked to, the bottom line is that no religion is problematic in the context of a secular state. It's when you have governments running countries in accordance with a religious doctrine that it all gets fecked up. The seperation of church and state is absolutely critical for an enlightened and tolerant society, no matter which religion is dominant in that particular country. So it's unfair to blame Islamic fundamentalism on the specifics of the scriptures they adhere to.
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Wasn't there some Aztec religion in which people had to be regularly burned alive or the sun wouldn't rise?

Other than that, 100%.
 
Wibble said:
Mosquitos account for far more deaths lets deal with that first ;)

Or perhaps we can deal with more than one problem at a time? ISIS are a big problem even if there are others and religion is part of the problem even if all religion isn't directly.
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We can deal with more than one problem at a time, I'm just bemused by the fact that people focus on religion so much when nationalism is (in my opinion at least) a more significant factor and historically has resulted in much more death and injury. Do we ever question nationalism in the same way? I think it's just as silly.

Not sure you're entirely right about the mosquitoes either, it'd be a close-run race in all likelihood when you look at the death tolls of WW1 and WW2 alone. Besides, we are trying to do something about mosquito related deaths.
 
Shamwow said:
We can deal with more than one problem at a time, I'm just bemused by the fact that people focus on religion so much when nationalism is (in my opinion at least) a more significant factor and historically has resulted in much more death and injury. Do we ever question nationalism in the same way? I think it's just as silly.

Not sure you're entirely right about the mosquitoes either, it'd be a close-run race in all likelihood when you look at the death tolls of WW1 and WW2 alone. Besides, we are trying to do something about mosquito related deaths.
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Mozzies kill a million people every single year. And we are trying to improve this but we can do so at the same time as trying to do other things.

I dislike the negative aspects of nationalism but I don't see why this would be a reason to try to address the interaction between religion and extremist terrorism.
 
A Muslim friend of mine posted this on Facebook. A sentiment which I agree with:

Here is where I have a problem. It's alright pointing out the hypocrisy in western governments & media, but some of you will stand blind, stone-cold when faced with the 'Islam is violent' argument?

Sure Islam itself (as an interpretation) isn't a violent religion, yet the literal translations of it can very easily be interpreted as violent - and they ARE extremely violent.

I could list every Muslim country here and give you strong, empirical evidence that shows the root of their problems to be violent interpretations of Islam.

Islam & the Muslim world needs reformation. And it's sickening that some of us, instead of actually self-reflecting, will blame the 'west' for its bias.

Homosexuals, atheists, women & many other innocent people are not butchered in Europe for their beliefs or way of life.

They are butchered in Muslim states.

We need to think 'education', and think 'reform'.

What was the point of your own education if you're going to be claiming such heretic things like "Islam is perfect." It is as far away from perfect as far away can be.

It's time you all lift the veil and start tackling the real problems.

One of which happens to be Islam itself.
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The Middle-East in general is not ready yet for a Western-like civilization. Too many deprived and remote areas with very little proper education.
 
naturalized said:
Hmmm. Before I answer this, can you spell this bolded bit out for me? What specific factual issues do you have with Aslan's claim here?



Wasn't there some Aztec religion in which people had to be regularly burned alive or the sun wouldn't rise?

Other than that, 100%.
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In those countries e.g. Indonesia, Malaysia, Sharia Law is still optional in governing some issues. And since when has Sharia Law allowed equal treatment of women?
 
Wibble said:
Mozzies kill a million people every single year. And we are trying to improve this but we can do so at the same time as trying to do other things.

I dislike the negative aspects of nationalism but I don't see why this would be a reason to try to address the interaction between religion and extremist terrorism.
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I just think that even in cases where religion is being blamed, nationalism is often a deeper cause. And religion is often at its worst when combined with nationalism (as Pogue mentions above).
 
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