I'm not an atheist but even I can see the irony & illogic of a god whose sufferings match our own; if ever there were a man-made god, it's this one.
Religion, what's the point?
- Thread starter TheRedFlag
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And he needs the money.
But you have to be very careful about what is allowed to be taken from the OT. And he allows humanity to suffer greatly, and not just because of evil humans.
No, I am just amused that you think I am a Roman Catholic.
Yep, and the writers of the Bible definitely took some PR advice when writing the New Testament. The OT is very much the wrath of God and trying to separate the good from the bad. But then all of that violence and 'sin' is amended by the sacrifice of Jesus, whereby the lives of those before and after are redeemed, making God the good guy again.
To be honest, I kind of get it from God's perspective. I mean, you go ahead and create this incredible world, introduce incredibly complex life and two people who have dominion over it all, promise an eternity of happiness as long as they don't do ONE thing... And whaddya know, they go and do it!
I can imagine a cosmic roar of "FUUUUUUUUUU-" when they disobeyed him. I probably wouldn't be in the mood to be taking any more shit.
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Why?
His mum told him he was talking nonsense as soon as he asked a perfectly valid question about how powerful God supposedly is.
And according to some Christians no matter how much suffering and damage you've caused you can simply repent and you'll go to heaven. Whereas even though someone can be a good person and live their life well, not believing in something for which there is no evidence is enough for a ticket to hell for eternity.
How kind of him.
The standard that the God of the Bible sets for what is sin in some cases is just ridiculous.
This part makes pretty much no sense to me.
Stephen Fry when asked what he'd say to god if he met him. A good answer I reckon.
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To a believer it's a pointless question because it's all explained in the Bible. It's really, really easy for them to justify what God does and doesn't do.
I think you are Xtian. Protestant faith built upon existing doctrine as well as Biblical exegesis of careful edited textual options.
Because she does believe in God, and she does not want her son to go to hell.
I didn't say that was the right response. I am helping the guy understand and sympathise with his mum, not to accept a poor answer, which is why I gave my own.
One, there are no good people when measured by the standard of perfection. There are simply sinful creatures with some being worse than others. Two, if the repentance is genuine then it means that person would live a changed life, were they to live beyond the point of conversion, and three, those of us in Christ are not judged by our works, but Christ's righteousness is imputed to us. Effectively, Christ bought my salvation with his broken body and with his blood.
An understatement.
The law is a schoolmaster to bring people to Christ. It acts as a mirror of a person's soul that would otherwise be hidden. When you realise how far you fall short of God's righteousness, then the correct response is both fear of God and awe toward Christ.
Because your current paradigm doesn't allow you to contemplate it.
I wonder what non-existent part of him MM reckons will get into heaven?
Lol
Lol
Mutter Merkel said:
Great. That's just what we all need: yet another boss, lord or leader who uses intimidation and the prospect of punishment to gain a tawdry form of respect.
That would be sad. One should be ethical because you feel it is right, not because you fear to be punished... That's just being pragmatic.
Now here's an idea, maybe that's why he downplays our own morality, if he acts from fear maybe he cannot conceive of doing something because it is right in and of itself.
Stephen Fry is one of the most celebrated ignoramuses in popular culture.
I'd have to be very stupid to believe a non-existent part of me will get into heaven, but possibly not as stupid as the person who framed the question.
Herman back?
No way, mate. A Herman back doesn't stand a chance against a Silva back.
I did actually wonder that myself.
Maybe in your opinion but what he says in the vid is spot on. The sooner people realise that there is no such things as God or heaven or any of that Bollox then the world will be an infinitely better place. I can't believe in this day and age that intelligent and articulate people believe that there is some omnipotent being somewhere that created every thing.
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A wum calling people stupid to get a bite?
Well that's original!
Well that's original!
I think Islam needs a huge modernizational chamge. What is being perpetrated by people of one religion today has been done before by people of Christian, Jewish and possibly Hindu faith.
I am an atheist and have read the main books of all religious faiths. I have a lot of problems with the Quran which I shall state below:
A male is allowed to marry up to 4 times. No such privilege to a woman.
Having sex slaves is allowed for male members.
The inheritance for a woman is worth half of that compared to a son.
Idol worshippers are devil worshippers. The Hindus are fecked then.
One verse crudely does state that true Muslims should not make friends with Christians and Jews as their faiths have tainted the word of God.
Apostasy is punishable by death and many Islamic countries today follow it.
And one of the verses just shows the cruelty to be bestowed on the 'non believers'. They shall burn in hell for eternity and when the skin burns off, the skin shall regrow again for the torment to continue.
There are similar verses in the bible too. But today, Christians do not take them literally and have evolved. Sooner Islam does it too, the better.
Resident theists, would need your views on the same.
I am an atheist and have read the main books of all religious faiths. I have a lot of problems with the Quran which I shall state below:
A male is allowed to marry up to 4 times. No such privilege to a woman.
Having sex slaves is allowed for male members.
The inheritance for a woman is worth half of that compared to a son.
Idol worshippers are devil worshippers. The Hindus are fecked then.
One verse crudely does state that true Muslims should not make friends with Christians and Jews as their faiths have tainted the word of God.
Apostasy is punishable by death and many Islamic countries today follow it.
And one of the verses just shows the cruelty to be bestowed on the 'non believers'. They shall burn in hell for eternity and when the skin burns off, the skin shall regrow again for the torment to continue.
There are similar verses in the bible too. But today, Christians do not take them literally and have evolved. Sooner Islam does it too, the better.
Resident theists, would need your views on the same.
You are stupid enough to believe that both God and the afterlife exist, and presumably that you have something like a non-physical soul, which is demonstrably not something that exists. You believe in many things that do not exist and have delusions about what will happen wrt them.
All because you find those delusions more comfortable than reality I guess. One problem is that you deny that they are delusions.
Thought of the Day: It's a funny way to show your humility by assuming intellectual superiority over others.
Tell me then how billion of Muslims all around the world(not counting extremists obviously) are living under belief that (by anyones standard really - if you learn what every Muslim learns) Muhammad is the greatest human being ever and that Islam is religion of peace by actually living very peaceful life? How can you think that Muhammad isn't peaceful when people who actually believe in him have learned all their life that he was very peaceful?
Apparently everyone around sees somehow that Islam is violent yet Muslims live their whole life in thinking that is not, and that it is very peaceful religion but somehow that's not truth, because atheists have said so because they have read some things from Qur'an? How exactly is that possible? Does that mean that what real Muslims learn about Islam isn't right?
The Biblical concept of the soul is actually more closely linked to psychology. But hey, I am glad you can demonstrate human consciousness doesn't exist, buddy. What experiment, apart from knocking yourself out and falling head first onto the keyboard and producing the above and below statements, did you do to find that out?
And the award for circular reasoning goes to Feedingseagulls.
Its best to ignore people like that, there is no point debating/arguing with someone who has a closed mind. And if does think that ISIS is following islam to the letter
The minute you kill, enslave and rape people you relinquish any claims to being a peaceful person. And if you think that person is the greatest person ever then it's a really sad reflection of your ideals.
Muslims believe Muhammad is great because they've been told he's great - the same with any other religion. From an objective point of view, he's just another warlord and despot who manipulated people's baser instincts and desires to satisfy his ambitions. I mean, honestly, he wasn't even subtle.
"Hey, Christianity is taking off over there, and the people in charge are living a pretty nice life... Let's just change a few events, names and prophecies. Hey presto!" He's a second-rate fraud who was lucky enough to be around at a time when religion was the big thing and education wasn't.
Fundamentally, Islam is not a peaceful religion. It's been revised to be by moderates and casuals, but the Koran, the source of the entire religion is wholly belligerent. People go on like ISIS are bastardising the Koran to suit their own twisted agenda - they're not. They are almost following it word for word, and trying to establish a caliphate based on the norms and principles espoused directly in the Koran.
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I said nothing about consciousness.
Consciousness exists without the soul. But there is no Cartesian theatre in which experience is presented for decisions to be made. What you think of as consciousness though is likely to be the post-hoc narrative that is created by subconscious processes.
If as you seem to think, soul=consciousness, which is part of mind, and given that mind is the functioning of the brain, what gets to survive when your brain disintegrates?
Its best to ignore people like that, there is no point debating/arguing with someone who has a closed mind. And if does think that ISIS is following islam to the letter
Non-Muslim doesn't think Islam is the bestest thing eva... Shock!
My opinions are backed by fact, yours are based on abstract faith.
Woah, woah, woah. Steady on there. Where did I assume?
Show me your facts.
Probably in the replies implying that we're all twits and that you know everything.
There is a difference between implying that its not the bestest thing eva ( who says that, really?) and saying Islam as a religion encourages the killing of innocents.
So tell me how many times have you read the quran and sunnah?
What, that Muhammad was a murderer, enslaver and rapist? I didn't even think the historicity of that was in doubt.
You said your opinion is backed by facts. I'm waiting to see them.
I love the idea that because he isn't Catholic, the texts upon which he based his faith did not undergo the vast bulk of the same editing, selection and motivation processes that other sects did.
Anyway, I'm going to step away from this thread, I can see it going wrong.
I just rail against the idea that ISIS are perverting true Islam, when they're actually upholding its original doctrine.
I just rail against the idea that ISIS are perverting true Islam, when they're actually upholding its original doctrine.
Checkmate, Christians. There's no Cartesian theatre in which experience is presented for decisions to be made.
Gesundheit.
Let me be frank, the problem is that you try far too hard to make intellectual points in areas you simply don't have any real knowledge, and as a result you come across as pseudo-intellectual. The first clue somebody is a pseudo-intellectual is that they make comments like the one I put in bold here. It's just an awful sentence, much like the terrible structure of the one I ridiculed before. You're trying too hard to be clever. If you want to know what part of me I think will make it to heaven, just ask.
And then ran away when someone called you out on it? Sure we are the ones going on blind faith