Yeh, it only took us 2000 years to get from under its despicable thumb. There are still areas that are heavily influenced too. Just watch the American elections......its shameful how much religious grand-standing goes into those elections.
Religion, what's the point?
- Thread starter TheRedFlag
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Yeh, it only took us 2000 years to get from under its despicable thumb. There are still areas that are heavily influenced too. Just watch the American elections......its shameful how much religious grand-standing goes into those elections.
Christianity is still very actively believed in plenty of places in the US and Europe. There are still Christian parties participating in elections and the Pope is still very seriously followed by tens of millions of Christians. That's just the Christianity part, then there is the Islam.
Amen to that too
That's pathetic; Christians were persecuted in Rome and slaughtered in its Colosseum for 300 years. Christians are still the most persecuted people group across the entire world.
The Roman Catholic Church has done a lot of damage to the reputation of the Church (body of believers), but people forget it was other Christians the Roman Catholic Church was persecuting for disagreeing with its man-made traditions.
You have not been oppressed one iota by Christianity in this country, and it's your ignorance that is really despicable.
Agreed. Spot on.
Definitely agree with this.
Crusades were evil, and the basis for that was on Catholic Church, but had nothing to do with the new testament. The recent terrorist acts have basis on Quran. Obviously, that is subject to interpretation, but if there are more than a hundred of verses which can be interpreted in this way (and repeatedly get interpreted this way), then surely there is something fundamentally wrong with that religion.
Most of Quran should be treated from Muslims as the Old Testament is treated from Christians. To not get taken seriously, and not be dogmatic. Until then, nutters would find justifications on that book for their horrofic acts.
It's not true that Christians don't take the old testament seriously. Sure, you might hear somebody unlearned saying that, but Christians view the old with the enlightenment of the new. That is to say, understanding the old in light of the new, namely Christ. Given that the old testament is comprised of many different books with many different genres, it's impossible to talk of it in the same way one would talk of the Qu'ran. For one thing, the Bible is full of context, including historical names, places and dates, and large parts of it record the actions of men, one tribe upon another, good and bad, both faithfully written down. The Qur'an isn't contextual, and to understand that the Medina surahs come later in historical chronology than the Mecca surahs, you have to do further research than simply reading the book. The Qur'an's murderous streak comes directly from its author (although not written down by Muhammad himself, for he was illiterate), and the militaristic commands therein to fight unbelievers abrogate earlier verses which emphasise peace and a lack of compulsion in religion (not surprisingly, these verses come from a period in history where Muhammad and his followers were the minority in Mecca).
In the Bible, we have the clear emphasis of God's Holiness and righteousness throughout the old testament, demonstrating that it was only by God's grace that he dwelt with a sinful people (the ancient Israelites, so named after Jacob) at all, and this finds its conclusion in the Son of God laying down his life to redeem any who would believe in him from the wrath of God's righteous judgement on sinful creatures. The clear trajectory of all the scriptures of the Bible is towards grace and mercy, which is only recognised as grace and mercy by the prior revealing of God's righteousness and judgement against sin.
Agreed. I can't stand people using these events to champion the accomplishments of their religion, especially Christians. That religion established the modern template for religious fanaticism and killing in the name of religion and holding human society back in terms of progress.
Lets blame just the Catholics? utter bullshit - what about the Puritans?.. Christianity as a whole was a dangerous religion, it is only now that is has been pushed to the sidelines that people see it as a 'friendly' religion and even then it comes across as fake, rueing the fact its been pushed to the sidelines.
Destruction of Pagans during latter era of Roman Empire, Charlemagne v the Saxons (got 4500 beheaded), Crusades, Inquisition, natives of South America, French Wars.. what happened to the likes of Gallileo, Salem Witch hunts, Rwanda etc. There is plenty of blood shed in the name of Christianity.
Christianity if followed correctly has no links to the violence that was committed under its name. The crusades, inquisitions, etc, are all a result of mankind twisting something for their own gains. The Bible has warned against this.
Judaism if followed correctly has no links to violence committed under its name. Israel, Zionism, etc are all a result of mankind twisting something for own gains. The Torah has warned of this happening.
Islam, meaning Peace, has no links to the violence committed under its name. Doesn't matter what text is quoted by psuedo intellectuals (damn, the ignorance in this world
) on here. Its mankind twisting something for their own gains. The Quran and Hadith has warned about this happening hundreds of times.The despicable thing here is to pretend that that our freedom from the oppression of the Christian church was in any way aided by that church. The church which fought its loss of power every step and at great cost to the people pushing it to the sidelines.
If it had the power to continue to force its bullshit down our throats and punish us for our dissent it would still be doing so.
I'd agree with this
Agreed
That would probably be a non-existent country if the 'you' was extended to more than a cherry-picked minority.
http://www.cracked.com/article_20536_5-ridiculous-lies-you-believe-about-ancient-civilizations.html
You should seriously consider running for GOP nomination.
My word! You mean you actually believe all that bullshit? Even if you take such a fairy story as reality, Xtian history shows the accidental nature of what is accepted as doctrine.
Have you no awareness of the evolution of bible in terms of which texts should be adopted? The Xtian divisions and heresies?
Mindboggling.
There's a well-established 300-hundred year history of Roman persecution of Christians under various emperors to study. But you pick out the completion date of the colosseum... I won't mention the detected bias.
The accidental nature of what is accepted as doctrine? Are you illiterate or just dutifully spurious? What you refer to as evolution of the text consists of a rich manuscript lineage that goes all the way back to the first century, and you're also probably not aware of why that manuscript evidence exists, so let me tell you very simply. It's because the early Christian Church didn't have a Bible in the way we see it bound today, but they had various scriptures which they copied individually. What this meant was that there were lots of them individually held by ordinary Christians. No, I am sorry, these were not being selected by some darkly-draped council in a densely-wooded summit.
Of course I have a knowledge of Christian divisions and heresies. What is your point?
True. They were carefully chosen amongst many debates in very comfortable circumstances by men with many vested interests.
What you rely upon as God's revelation is a political manifesto.
I just had an argument with my mom who is an Orthodox-Christian. I told her I don't feel the need to love and support a God that doesn't interfere when people are being slaughtered like animals. She said God doesn't interfere because he leaves the people alone, then I asked her why he creates people in order for those people to then live a truly miserable life and she said I'm talking nonsense and I should respect God more. I love my mom to the fullest but when it comes to religion it's mindboggling to me how she can believe that stuff and she did university!
You just demonstrate you have no idea what you're talking about. If you wish to support the atheist cause, as a former atheist myself, stop posting, because those with any knowledge whatsoever of early Church history and with an appetite to learn will read what you've posted here and they will mock you and assume atheists in general to be as ignorant as you are.
It's extremely difficult for people who were brought up in a religion to recognize how irrational it is. I learnt a long time ago to not argue with my Mom or Dad about religion (I was brought up as a Catholic). It was initially tough for me to let go. It wasn't like one day I just decided to stop believing.I just had an argument with my mom who is an Orthodox-Christian. I told her I don't feel the need to love and support a God that doesn't interfere when people are being slaughtered like animals. She said God doesn't interfere because he leaves the people alone, then I asked her why he creates people in order for those people to then live a truly miserable life and she said I'm talking nonsense and I should respect God more. I love my mom to the fullest but when it comes to religion it's mindboggling to me how she can believe that stuff and she did university!
If someone is happy living a religious life I have no problem with that provided they don't impose themselves on others or worse, make the decision to harm or kill others because they don't have the same beliefs.
Say what you want about it but religion does bring peace and comfort to a lot of individuals. So leave your Mama alone.
At least the Bible redeemed some of that violence with the New Testament. Real or not, Jesus was a nice guy. Muhammad, on the other hand, is a massive douche.
And like hell is Islam a religion of peace, as others have said. ISIS is following it almost to the letter. There might be a few pleasantries and words of wisdom here and there, but the text is beset with violent urgings.
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There are many books available on the apocryphal gospels and the choosing of the approved Canon. Likewise the history of the early church where matters of doctrine were decided between the powerful members of the church.
Then of course there are the investigations into the dating of the various gospel manuscripts. Even given the unhelpful attitudes of the church to many avenues of investigation there were interesting findings to be made.
I just had an argument with my mom who is an Orthodox-Christian. I told her I don't feel the need to love and support a God that doesn't interfere when people are being slaughtered like animals. She said God doesn't interfere because he leaves the people alone, then I asked her why he creates people in order for those people to then live a truly miserable life and she said I'm talking nonsense and I should respect God more. I love my mom to the fullest but when it comes to religion it's mindboggling to me how she can believe that stuff and she did university!
It's more difficult for your mum to think you don't believe in/love God. Your mum's just expressing there that people have the ability to act according to their own will.
I can answer your question in another way. If God were to put a stop to evil actions, what do you think that would entail? By God's standards, we're all guilty many many times over for various sins, so the only thing God could do would be to judge and punish every single person accordingly right now. And it's kind of arbitrary, because you could say, why didn't you just judge everybody 100 years ago? or why didn't you just judge Hitler, and Stalin and so on. From a Christian perspective, the fact you and I are alive right now, is because God has the grace not to pull the plug on creation. The acts of violence you see in the world are the tip of the iceberg of human wickedness. Imagine what a murderer's heart looks like to God. In fact, God says we're all murderers, because we've all hated somebody with the fantasy or intention of harm towards them. In God's eyes, who is pure, that is murder of the heart.
God's standard of what constitutes evil is just much much purer than our own, but his mercy is also much greater than ours; it's greater than we can imagine. The fact God allows for these violent acts is the same reason he allows you and me to exist. Mercy. Suffering is an extension of the same grace that saw Christ suffer and die on the cross. In fact, suffering is God's wisdom. Suffering says that God loves the world so much he will endure it even though it grieves him so bitterly. But the Bible does clearly state that there is a day coming when God will judge man, and that day belongs to the Lord.
I need some of the stuff you're smoking.
The Council of Trent was just one example of a meeting (comfortable) to decide just what would and would not constitute Xtianity.
Diet of Worms anybody? Certainly had rather an effect.
Diet of Worms anybody? Certainly had rather an effect.
Brother, you need what I have, you really do.
I nearly spat my drink out. Just carry on googling; it'll really take you a long way...
Ah. The vale of tears theodicy. Load of balls.
Are you going to peddle Swinburne's line that God is merciful because people black out from pain or die? Try telling that to those in Auschwitz or in the theatre last night.
God cannot be coherently both beneficent and omnipotent. All theodicies fall.
I just had an argument with my mom who is an Orthodox-Christian. I told her I don't feel the need to love and support a God that doesn't interfere when people are being slaughtered like animals. She said God doesn't interfere because he leaves the people alone, then I asked her why he creates people in order for those people to then live a truly miserable life and she said I'm talking nonsense and I should respect God more. I love my mom to the fullest but when it comes to religion it's mindboggling to me how she can believe that stuff and she did university!
It's pretty easy to see how people who believe in God justify his inaction when you read the relevant texts.
The whole "Why doesn't he help us?" reeks of immaturity. The Bible - which is the Word of God - explicitly states why he doesn't interfere in 'this' world. So, why are you asking pointless questions?
Not saying the Bible is true, by the way, but relaying how believers view it. Basically, if you assume God to be real, for argument's sake, then you have to believe the Bible is valid, and therefore such questions are already answered.
What a strange inversion of reasoning and morality.
So do you believe all these decisions about the church were divinely inspired or something then? Rather than politically convenient?
Fine. As long as you don't claim beneficence as one of God's properties.
I overestimate the ability of humans to think for themselves apparently because they will believe anything a book says instead.
I just had an argument with my mom who is an Orthodox-Christian. I told her I don't feel the need to love and support a God that doesn't interfere when people are being slaughtered like animals. She said God doesn't interfere because he leaves the people alone, then I asked her why he creates people in order for those people to then live a truly miserable life and she said I'm talking nonsense and I should respect God more. I love my mom to the fullest but when it comes to religion it's mindboggling to me how she can believe that stuff and she did university!
God also has a plan for us, apparantly.
Which is strange considering he also apparantly leaves us alone...
That's fair enough, and religion does attract some (a lot of) sheep, certainly. (That True Detective scene is a personal favourite.)
Let me be the first to say.....welcome back Herman.
Doesn't he love us as well? (george carlin reference)
I fundamentally view all humans as essentially selfish and venal. I interpret those involved in producing religious doctrine and texts in that way.
It is possible to transcend those base urges, but predicting human behaviour as mostly guided by them tends to be more accurate.
It is possible to transcend those base urges, but predicting human behaviour as mostly guided by them tends to be more accurate.
Well, according to the Bible, God offers everlasting life, and this world is a result of Satan's 'deviance' and Adam and Eve's misbehaviour, for want of a stronger word.
So, again, you can see why believers will think God's the good guy.