I posted in this thread post #181 that I believe I have found the truth. Two people asked me to explain why I believe that I have found the truth. So I will explain my reasons as soon as I get enough time to put it all into words. In the meantime, I find it very interesting that when the creation of animals is described in Genesis 1:24 "And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so." it tells us that the animals came up out of the Earth after God had commanded it, it does not tell us that God said "Elephant", and there is an elephant, nor "Giraffe", and there is a giraffe. It does not tell us that it was on a literal day. The Hebrew word used is "YOM", and the meaning can also mean age, in certain context. In my personal opinion, I think that in Genesis, and the creation, it means "age".
Religion Discussion | Read the OP before posting
- Thread starter Raoul
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Was watching Baraka last night, some awesome scenes of religious devotion captured in it:
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And this footage of the hajj from its sister Samsara is also pretty amazing:
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And this footage of the hajj from its sister Samsara is also pretty amazing:
Good stuff.
I love the word devotion as in my eyes you are just giving thanks for being alive .
Beautiful .
I hold a lot if Bhakti Yoga events in Liverpool and got my first French one soon. Iam also off to Ariege in April for a Sufi retreat .
Devotion makes me happy .
@Carolina Red how can I help?
Cheers!
I've always heard that Sufism is a "mystic" form of Islam, but I've never really heard what that means.
Also, where does Sufism line up in regards to Sunni and Shia sects?
A few things you need to know;
1. I was born into a sufi family but am not a follower of any particular sufi order.
2. I've always respected sufi practises
3. I do think there is a problem with frauds and charlatans in the sufi world.
4. I am actively seeking a spiritual leader currently.
5. I'm very much a layman and not an authority.
Sufism is not a separate section within Islam. Sufism can be Shia or sunni, they can be across all the different schools of jurisprudence. Essentially Sufism is the practice of non compulsory voluntary prayers and actions carried out under the guidance of a teacher (mostly anyway) as an expression of love for Allah, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and Allahs creation. The purpose of this is to become closer to Allah by pleasing Allah. In that sense it's no different to many other forms of worship in Islam.
Sufis believe that the closer you are to Allah the greater the chance of your sins being forgiven and your prayers being heard. Having said that there is no limit to Allahs mercy and bounty and even the gravest sinner can please Allah with the smallest good act.
In sufi history orders were established with different techniques of voluntary prayers to help you become spiritually closer to Allah. They take lineage right back to the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh).
Some sufi masters have been said to have performed miracles because Allah granted them the ability to do so. I've never witnessed any but we have faith in the same way all religion is based on faith.
It's these claims to miracles and some of the more extravagant methods of devotion to God which give sufism its exotic appearance. The essence of it is in fact devotion to Allah through worship, good acts and fighting all worldly desires (the nafs).
Can say that I've been to the Vatican and would absolutely love to go again, it's a mystical place and St. Peter's is one of the most staggering places I've ever been fortunate enough to step inside.
Religion is not for me but I do love the aura of the great religious places, churches are usually pretty beautiful buildings.
I always wonder that if it's all a grand lie then that in itself is insane in the scale of it, both for how many people believe and for how long it's been going for. Imagine being the person that thought up the whole concept and being told what things are like now, they'd burst out laughing.
Religion is not for me but I do love the aura of the great religious places, churches are usually pretty beautiful buildings.
I always wonder that if it's all a grand lie then that in itself is insane in the scale of it, both for how many people believe and for how long it's been going for. Imagine being the person that thought up the whole concept and being told what things are like now, they'd burst out laughing.
Cool stuff! I appreciate the explanation.
Kinda reminds me of the monastic societies of Christianity.
Can I ask: why do you always have to say 'Praise be upon him' when mentioning the name Muhammad and what are the consequences of not doing so? Does it equally apply when writing it down as not noticed that before? I see that you have done that above.
I know very little about Islam but someone mentioned to me yesterday that Muhammad married a 6-year-old, and that he had something like a dozen wives. He also ordered 500 Jews to be beheaded. True or false?
We've been to Loreto a few times to see the Basilica of the Holy House - the house where Mary was born and lived. It's enclosed within the most beautiful white marble facade, a house within a house within a Basilica. When you go inside, you see the ancient stones, but most of all you feel the spirituality of it all.
Whether you're a believer or not, it's incredibly powerful. People stand there in silence, with their hands on the walls. It's like the stones have absorbed all that emotion over the centuries.
It's enclosed within this:
There's a list of cruelty and violent quotes from the Quran here:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html Just the odd 536 to read and check and see if any match.
And for balance here's the bibles list:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html only 1321 nonpeaceful passages.
I know what you mean. I've been in the Holy Sepulchre, Church of the Nativity, and the Church of St. George (where the holy family is said to have lived in Cairo).
In all of those places, it's like you described.... There's like a palpable sense of emotion inside of them that is impossible to not feel.
This is a mark of respect and an act of devotion. You don't have to say it or write it, but most Muslims do. There is also a hadith (saying of the Prophet Muhmmad (pbuh)) which states that anyone who sends salutations upon him, Allah will in return reward that person, so it's in part an act of voluntary worship too.
This website will help you with your concerns. - http://seekershub.org/ans-blog/2012/07/03/a-balanced-explanation-of-the-banu-qurayza-controversy/
you can use the search engine to look for other answers too. Another good site is http://www.seekerspath.co.uk/
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Ah ok. Thanks.
Thanks Zlat, needed a site like that. Google has become sporadic. It used to be good but is full of shill websites now.
Islam’s forgotten bohemians
With its subversive poetry, rejection of politics, and ecstatic rituals, Sufi Islam continues to surprise and to thrive
With its subversive poetry, rejection of politics, and ecstatic rituals, Sufi Islam continues to surprise and to thrive
Omnipotence is not a problem in Vedanta. It is resolved by the body-self analogy (sharIrAtma bhAva).
I am a follower of Vishishtadvaita Vedanta. This system of philosophy posits that everything is the body of Brahman. The idea is, just as the self abides in the body, similarly the Universe is the body of Brahman. This is again differentiated into two forms - "sarvAntarAtma" where the entire existence is his body, and "sarvAntaryAmitva" where he pervades within each and every molecule individually, with them being his bodies.
We are constrained in our bodies because of karma. But Brahman being free of karma, is not constrained by the body and has associated with his bodies out of free will, as they cannot exist without him. Without the self, the body is useless as it only exists for the sake of the self.
Nothing is created. Matter, Brahman and the individual selves are all eternal, with the two being the bodies of the one (Brahman).
It is mentioned in the Veda:
Yam prithivyAm tishttan prithivya antarO yam prithivI na vEda yasya prithivI sharIram ya: prithivIm antarO yamayati sa ta AtmA antaryAmi amruta: (~brihadArANyaka upanishad)
He who inhabits the earth (signifying all matter), but is within it, whom the earth does not know, whose body is the earth, and who controls the earth from within, is the Inner Controller, the immortal.
Ya Atmani tishttan Atmana: antarO yam AtmA na vEda yasya AtmA sharIram ya AtmAnam antarO yamayati sa ta AtmA antaryAmi amruta: (~brihadAraNyaka Upanishad)
He who inhabits the self, but is within it, whom the self does not know, whose body is the self, and who controls the self from within, is the Inner Controller, the immortal.
yó vidyā́t sū́traṃ vítataṃ yásminn ótāḥ prajā́ imā́ḥ
sū́traṃ sū́trasya yó vidyā́d sá vidyād brā́hmaṇaṃ mahát (~ Skambha Sukta, AtharvaNa veda 37)
Meaning: He who knows that thread (vAyu, the vital air) by which all beings are strung together, he who knows the thread’s thread, ie, the inner controller of vAyu and all beings, he knows the great instructor of the Veda.
So that being said, let me give you an example. You can get your body to do anything within one split second. If you want to move your arm, it obeys you in a fraction of a second. Similarly, your body never gets too heavy for you to move, does it? Not unless its diseased, but that is analogous to a situation of being under karmas, whereas Brahman is eternally free of karmas.
Similarly, the rock is his body. It was never created by him, as all matter is eternal, but is sustained by him just as the self sustains the body. Thus, nothing will become too heavy for him to lift.
How would you feel if someone of a different religion prayed for you or pressed something not of your own religion ( such as a crucifix ) into you dying hands ?
I wouldn't have a problem with anyone praying for me, pressing a crucifix or other religious icon into my hand would upset me though.
Are you a religious person ?
yeah mate
I'm Muslim, I fully accept there being a supreme creator of the reality that we exist in. I don't believe that we need icons or objects to funnel our belief in said creator.
Hajj time is here. Here's a live stream which should run throughout the next week:
Some amazing footage in the videos near the top of this page.
Some amazing footage in the videos near the top of this page.
Do you also believe that we don't need places of worship when I'm sure the creator would be happy if we prayed in the comfort of our own homes?
You're upset with someone who's genuinely attempting to bring you goodwill / good fortune / salvation because you don't agree with the way they worship their deity?
Some photos of the Hajj from 1887 here - https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/photo/408013/
I agree with this and would feel the same way.
Not a bliever myself but I can understand why certain things would be upsetting. It could come dangerously close to a kind of unwitting last minute conversion, which was something Mother Theresa was accused of trying to do. To put the emotional impact in secular terms, imagine someone made a person sign a document which said he or she was in fact a Nazi supporter when all along he/she'd fought against fascism, but that's how he/she was now going to go down in history.
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Yep. No need for places of worship either, any clean place should be fine to pray to your God. I'm not advocating the destruction of churches/temples/mosques, I'm just saying that a building shouldn't be a requirement for your prayers to be heard.
In which case, I'm in agreement.
Although for me, meditation and prayer are much the same thing.
Why would I be upset? Mate, each to their own bro, what I said was my own personal belief. How someone worships their creator has absolutely no bearing on my relationship with God.I just discovered Aldo is now Moby. The feck.
But why would I have a problem with the way they personally worship? If they include me then it's no longer personal worship but collective worship, in which case we should have a compromise of just praying to God.
As an example, if a trinitarian feels comfortable with calling on Mary as the mother of God and asking her for intercession then so be it, if they want to include me in the worship then I would prefer if we went to God directly without any middlemen or relics.
As an example, if a trinitarian feels comfortable with calling on Mary as the mother of God and asking her for intercession then so be it, if they want to include me in the worship then I would prefer if we went to God directly without any middlemen or relics.
I agree with you about middlemen and relics. But, Mary is not a part of the Trinity. The Trinity is The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. 3 different persons of the one God. All things being created by the Word of God (The Son) who became flesh. As is told in the book of John from the start. God said(He spoke)" let there be light"(his Word). Genesis 1:3. Also Psalm 33:6 tells us that "By the Word of God (Jesus)the Heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth(Holy Spirit) all their Host" So the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all mentioned. Even though only God was present at the creation ""This is what the LORD says, your Redeemer (Christ) and the one who formed you in the womb: 'I am the LORD, who has made everything, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth— Who was with me at that time?— Isaiah 44:24. It was the Word of God(Jesus) who spoke to Moses from the burning bush on the mountain. For when the Father speaks it is always the Word of God. The Gospel of John tells us from the start that this "Word of God" became flesh (Jesus), God can do that
. On the mountain, God gave Moses the ten commandments for the people, Moses asked God, "Whom shall I say has sent me? " The answer given to Moses was "ehyeh-asher-ehyeh" which means "I AM, THAT I AM" link http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/YHVH/yhvh.html The reason the Jews wanted to stone Jesus in the book of John was because, he had just told them that "before Abraham was. I Am" The Jews tried to stone him. John 8:58-59. And they also tried to stone him after he told them "I and the Father are one" John 10:30-31. They knew full well who he was claiming to be, but they did not believe him. As had already been prophesied in the Old Testament.
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Have seen a lot of the churches and cathedrals in Europe. Certainly Rome.
Must visit the Holy Land when I retire.
Must visit the Holy Land when I retire.
I agree with you about middlemen and relics. But, Mary is not a part of the Trinity. The Trinity is The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. 3 different persons of the one God. All things being created by the Word of God (The Son) who became flesh. As is told in the book of John from the start. God said(He spoke)" let there be light"(his Word). Genesis 1:3. Also Psalm 33:6 tells us that "By the Word of God (Jesus)the Heavens were made, and by the breath of his mouth(Holy Spirit) all their Host" So the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all mentioned. Even though only God was present at the creation ""This is what the LORD says, your Redeemer (Christ) and the one who formed you in the womb: 'I am the LORD, who has made everything, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth— Who was with me at that time?— Isaiah 44:24. It was the Word of God(Jesus) who spoke to Moses from the burning bush on the mountain. For when the Father speaks it is always the Word of God. The Gospel of John tells us from the start that this "Word of God" became flesh (Jesus), God can do that
And so anti-Semitism begins. Notice how John (a Jew), talks of Jesus (a Jew) and how the Jews tried to stone him. Confused? You should be.