Some Jews believed in him and some did not. It is the same as today.
Religion Discussion | Read the OP before posting
- Thread starter Raoul
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Just quoting this post for the videos since Ashura is upon us tomorrow. A holy day for all Muslims but especially significant for the Shi'a. Time was in diverse Muslim communities such as those across India the commemorations would be attended by Sunnis as well as the Shi'a, and even Hindus and other local non-Muslim groups. These days with all the sectarian tension I believe that is no longer the case and the commemorations have become almost an exclusively Shi'i event - maybe @Zlatattack or @RedTiger could confirm?
He's an iconic reciter of Shi'a poems and religious songs. Massively popular in the Shi'a parts of Iraq. Used to watch his shows on Iraqi TV when I was there. Pretty mesmerizing stuff.
No.
Sunnis do commerate karbala but the events are separate. we have our own gatherings. I made a poster for one at our local masjid on Sunday and was explicitly told to advertise it as "open to everyone" but it very rare to have anyone who's not a regular attend.
I'm from the barelvi group of sunni Muslims and we take the first. 10 days of muharram very seriously.
Ashura simply means the "10th"
The day/custom was practised by the local Jews who observed a day of fasting at this time of the year. Basically, it was regarded as the Jews day of Atonement. According to Jewish tradition, this was the day that Musa/Moses (AS) and his followers were saved from Pharaoh when God parted the waters.
According to Sunni teachings, the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) fasted for two days himself to mark the occasion and we're also encouraged to do likewise. The Fasting is recommended and not obligatory. Overall, Ashura for Sunni Muslims is simply a day of reflection, respect and gratitude with no celebration or outward display of any events.
Obviously, it's different for the Shi'a Muslims who have combined the past traditions with that of the Martyrdom of Hussain ibn Ali (RA), the grandson of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) who was killed on the "10th" in Karbala, Iraq. This day then became Shi'a Muslims day of mourning in remembrance of his martyrdom. The clips posted above are performed in an effort to relive and copy the tragedy.
The day/custom was practised by the local Jews who observed a day of fasting at this time of the year. Basically, it was regarded as the Jews day of Atonement. According to Jewish tradition, this was the day that Musa/Moses (AS) and his followers were saved from Pharaoh when God parted the waters.
According to Sunni teachings, the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) fasted for two days himself to mark the occasion and we're also encouraged to do likewise. The Fasting is recommended and not obligatory. Overall, Ashura for Sunni Muslims is simply a day of reflection, respect and gratitude with no celebration or outward display of any events.
Obviously, it's different for the Shi'a Muslims who have combined the past traditions with that of the Martyrdom of Hussain ibn Ali (RA), the grandson of the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) who was killed on the "10th" in Karbala, Iraq. This day then became Shi'a Muslims day of mourning in remembrance of his martyrdom. The clips posted above are performed in an effort to relive and copy the tragedy.
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Is it true that Christian evangelists have their own Bible that either omits or adds things that a standard KJ bible doesn't have?
Sorry bro, just saw this now
Yeah you're right, I've never commemorated Ashura and I'm pretty sure my parents never have either.Any Baha'is on the Cafe?
Bahais mark 200th birthday of their messenger, whose focus on equality resonates today
Bahais mark 200th birthday of their messenger, whose focus on equality resonates today
Sounds like there's an interesting exhibition on at the British Museum until 8th April : Living With Gods.
I took my two year-old daughter to Sunday mass a couple of weeks ago. Hadn't been to a regular mass in years and years, and I don't hold to any real beliefs regarding religion, but yeah, there's definitely something rewarding and meditative about taking time out in a busy week to acknowledge - as a community - that there is something about the world higher than just ourselves, something more to it than just what we see, hear and feel around us. Not that I'm about to become a proper Catholic or anything, but as far as the ritual goes it's not a bad one, and it's something I'll be doing again with my kids for sure, maybe regularly.
That's the only way religion should be. A comfort and a rewarding, meditative experience for those who need it.
Not a fact as too many people claim.
People follow a set of beliefs because they believe it to be true. They find it comforting and rewarding because they believe it to be true.
Any well read Christians around that can help me out? I'm doing some layman research into the various translations and origins of the bible, with the idea of reading one version at least. I've been watching a video about the King James version and beyond and I can't get my head around Westcott-Hort and what they actually did or what they believed. They seem to criticize certain scriptures and question certain beliefs in letters released by their sons but I can't really grasp what they're criticizing and what this means with respect to their own work.
From what I could gather, in a round about way, the King James version was translated into English by scholars in England based on Latin scriptures, and a few hundred years later Westcott and Hort made their own English translation based on Greek scriptures? Is this correct?
From what I could gather, in a round about way, the King James version was translated into English by scholars in England based on Latin scriptures, and a few hundred years later Westcott and Hort made their own English translation based on Greek scriptures? Is this correct?
I think that's the gist of it! Different bible versions are interesting. Catholic bibles contain some extra books, including of course those that were rejected by Luther.
Read the original.
Thanks. The more I looked into it the more I thought reading a couple at least would be necessary for a couple of reasons. The reason the WH translation interests me is because they said some things that resonated with me, particularly about the idea of heaven being purely metaphorical. I can't seem to find it though, all I can find is this which seems to be a lengthy explanation on their whole process, but not actually a translated article of a bible. I'm wondering if I'm misunderstanding what they did or just struggling to find it.
I also read that a lot of the modern versions all originate from WH translation but that between that and the modern ones, it had other major alterations by Nestle and some others, and I'd rather read their 'original' first, if only to read the modern easy to read ones afterwards for comparison.
Is there an original? Is that considered to be the King James version?
The “original” would be in a mixture of ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Ancient Greek.
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What form are they/it in? A book, a few books? Scribes? Can all of them be found together in one place?
You can probably find online versions of them in various locations.
“The original” copies predate the invention of the “book”, so for those still extant you’re talking individual scrolls and parchments that are thousands of years old.
I do know that the Codex Sinaiticus (400 AD) was published in full online by the British Library. It’s the oldest “book” form of what’s considered the Bible.
Truth be told, we don’t know what the “original” scrolls/parchments are/were. All we have are what we know to be the oldest in existence and what things like the Council of Nicaea used.
That's obviously true, but I would argue that Latin was the language of the church long enough, and the vulgate bible (as its name implies) the common version (if not officially until the 16th Century) for long enough that it's a more or less the obvious choice for someone interested in translations and origins. Especially as its not until the mid-twentieth century that Catholic Church began to officially call for translations based off of the original languages.
Yes, Latin was used for a very, very long time and it would be an excellent place for someone to start studying... but it isn't the original language, and would have issues of things being "lost in translation" coming from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek.
Of course, part of what I would argue is that it is virtually impossible to get to the actual "origins" of the Bible in the first place as the originals have largely been lost to the sands of time.
Thanks @Carolina Red
If you're looking for a good translation, have a look at the Knox Bible. Although it was translated primarily from the Vulgate rather than from the Greek and Hebrew texts, the phraseology used by Ronald Knox (a scholarly priest) is very beautiful.
This.
Not sure I get the part in bold. What does "higher than ourselves" mean? I am sure there is more to it that "what we see, hear and feel" as we make new scientific discoveries every year but I don't think that's what you are getting at.
If we evolved from microorganisms and continue to evolve into whatever it is that we become before the Erath burns up or before we become extinct, why is it good to believe in something higher?
To me that takes away a lot of earthly responsibility. If there is another world after this then we don't have to be kind to the one we have (the Christian right in America believe this), it's okay that we have downtrodden people because they will get a better life in heaven (or they deserve a poor life because of their acts in a previous life).
If this is all we have and there is nothing more, then we should be thrilled that we had this chance and take the most advantage of it by treating all people kindly and doing our best to ensure we leave the planet in as good of shape as possible so that future generations can enjoy it.
I think that belief is tied into why so many of the American christian conservatives don’t care about climate change. Their religious belief leads them to discard any worry of it because either 1) God won’t let it happen or 2) Jesus will make his 2nd coming before it happens
I'm not 100% sure what I meant, but I think it's to do with the idea of community and the imaginary bonds which transcend our mundane everyday experiences which we feel tie us all together. There is something about communal worship that sharpens these feelings of human solidarity. It doesn't necessarily have to be worship of a supreme divine being (any football fan should understand this).
Ahhh, fair point. I think there is a rise of Secular Humanism in the U.S. where atheists get together and form a church like community. They celebrate events life events, help the needy, have philosophical discussions similar to churches without the deity component. I think something like that is really helpful for people leaving the church that still want that sense of community.
Yeah, I have seen that argument a lot (and it's frightening). "God put us on the earth to rule over the land and animals so we can do what we want and God will make it okay"
Exactly the same crap I’ve heard said back to me!
It’s so disturbing that they have little to no care for the thought that they might be wrong... then the planet is fecked.
Kind of what the Unitarian Universalists have become
I don't know hwy anybody who has any religious belief would post them on the caf as it has the most anti religious membership of any group I have ever met.
You are only ever going to be met with bigotry it really is not worth the hassle. As Jesus said just wipe your feet and move on.
You are only ever going to be met with bigotry it really is not worth the hassle. As Jesus said just wipe your feet and move on.
This is a large reason I think fundamentalism in Christianity is just as dangerous as the fundamentalism that fuels 'Islamic' terrorism worldwide.
It's just more gradual than random terror attacks.
This thread is supposed to be a safe space away from all that.
I still don't trust it. I've posted my views before and gave up. As I said wipe your feet and move on.
Seriously you're OK in here, it's been a very respectful discussion all the way through.
